giotto Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Will it be worse at 15? Not necessarily... my son is a great lad and I'm very proud of him... the challenges remain... they just change shape and form... Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 She just said "I am happy making you happy - I am a giver" She always has been the one who is more focused on giving than receiving. I asked her if she resented me. She looked confused and asked "for what?" I asked her if she felt pressured. She said not at all. Sorry mem, but I can't help thinking you have "conditioned" her in a way that she feels it's her duty to please you, regardless of what's going on... I very much hope it's not true and I know it's not a very pleasant thing to say. I do apologise if I offend you, but this is how I see it after all you said until now in your posts... Link to post Share on other sites
Toodamnpragmatic Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Sorry mem, but I can't help thinking you have "conditioned" her in a way that she feels it's her duty to please you, regardless of what's going on... I very much hope it's not true and I know it's not a very pleasant thing to say. I do apologise if I offend you, but this is how I see it after all you said until now in your posts... I apologize too, but agree with Giotto. Mem11363 you have been very adamant in all your posts about your talks and your comments on what is needed for you in your marriage. You also have made it very clear you will not masturbate and thus she is sort of caught in a catch22 with you. I know my wife would just hand me a box of tissues, apologize and tell me not to leave any evidence on the computer screen or keyboard. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Sorry mem, but I can't help thinking you have "conditioned" her in a way that she feels it's her duty to please you, regardless of what's going on... ... I apologize too, but agree with Giotto. Mem11363 you have been very adamant in all your posts about your talks and your comments on what is needed for you in your marriage. You also have made it very clear you will not masturbate and thus she is sort of caught in a catch22 with you. You guys are right. She could easily feel pressured from past conversations. And the no masturbating thing confuses me But what can he do other than talk and trust she says/does what she means? It is possible that she is pushing down resentment, but that is her "fault" and responsibility. He risks offending her and making her feel rejected if he refuses her based on not trusting her motives and feelings. So, in fact, he is in a catch22, too. Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Sorry mem, but I can't help thinking you have "conditioned" her in a way that she feels it's her duty to please you, regardless of what's going on... I very much hope it's not true and I know it's not a very pleasant thing to say. I do apologise if I offend you, but this is how I see it after all you said until now in your posts... I don't want to agree with Giotto, but that was my first impression, too. Based on what you wrote, I almost heard my own wife. She has said the same thing even though she doesn't feel that twice a week is necessary. She has said that sex is something she gives to me as she doesn't have the same interest. I know my wife would just hand me a box of tissues, apologize and tell me not to leave any evidence on the computer screen or keyboard. Ditto here. I am not understanding the no masturbation thing either that TDP mentioned. While I can say that I admire your wife for having sex with you so much and I am amazed that she initiates it so much (but I have a theory on that and it may be that she needs the "connection" right now during this difficult time), I do wonder if she feels that there IS a pressure to meet some standards. This too shall pass. Link to post Share on other sites
mem11363 Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 I 100 percent agree about the conditioning. Pretty sure that IS what is happening here. I actually think she thinks that "being a good wife requires being a great lover". While a part of me feels that IS true - I would be willing to agree to some compromise here where I share the pain. Like once a week. I don't want to agree with Giotto, but that was my first impression, too. Based on what you wrote, I almost heard my own wife. She has said the same thing even though she doesn't feel that twice a week is necessary. She has said that sex is something she gives to me as she doesn't have the same interest. Ditto here. I am not understanding the no masturbation thing either that TDP mentioned. While I can say that I admire your wife for having sex with you so much and I am amazed that she initiates it so much (but I have a theory on that and it may be that she needs the "connection" right now during this difficult time), I do wonder if she feels that there IS a pressure to meet some standards. This too shall pass. Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 I 100 percent agree about the conditioning. Pretty sure that IS what is happening here. I actually think she thinks that "being a good wife requires being a great lover". While a part of me feels that IS true - I would be willing to agree to some compromise here where I share the pain. Like once a week. mem, since you are a master in communication (no excessive sarcasm here ), can't you just talk to your wife about it? I mean, a proper conversation, not some random questioning like last night... what about not having sex, full stop? You see, you are still going on about it, even in these circumstances... can't you see what you've done? You are on a selfish trip, even if you think you are not and you are being considerate towards your wife... Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Agreeing with Giotto. A really open conversation can't include blanket statements--or implications--about what being a theoretical "good wife" requires. We aren't married to theoretical people; we are married to real individuals, with ever-changing wants, needs, and capacities. I actually think she thinks that "being a good wife requires being a great lover". While a part of me feels that IS true -. Also.....a person does not go from "great lover" to "not great lover" by taking a month off from sex. Sometimes, a month off from sex is exactly what a person needs to remain a "great lover". (a month being a completely random number). Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 (a month being a completely random number). careful what you say... you don't want to give mem a heart attack! Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 The negative about telling her that she doesn't need to initiate sex so often is also a concern. How will she take it? Will she think you have less interest in her? Will she think that she is not being good sexually? Will she think that you are looking elsewhere? Since she said she wants to do it, then how will she take it that you don't want her? And if she does need that reassurance that you love her, will she begin to feel insecure in your relationship? Or will she actually think you are doing it out of compassion and concern for her? Will she take it as a temporary situation only? Mem, you know your wife. If you think she will take it positively, then go for it. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 I know my wife would just hand me a box of tissues, apologize and tell me not to leave any evidence on the computer screen or keyboard. This and the "no masturbating" comment made me think about a dynamic in my relationship... The middle ground for us between sex with partner and masturbating alone (although neither or us has any issue with that ) is masturbating with partner. Just because my partner is too tired for sex (or vice versa) doesn't mean I can't have a nice O before sleep The other partner can offer touch and some fun whispers, but not feel pressure to "perform". I think the fibro article I posted earlier insinuated this a little bit, but maybe I just read what I wanted to read between the lines. Do other couples do this? Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Do other couples do this? yes! Once in 25 years... Link to post Share on other sites
Luv2dance Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Do other couples do this? Oh heavens no...I really think MH does not masturbate and never really has except when he had to after his no baby surgery. I know the guys are saying yeah right he just hides it, but really his upbringing and low libido make me believe him. Pretty sure he doesn't know I have my little silver bullet in the night stand drawer either But, we are SLOWLY dealing with our sex issues so maybe there is hope yet! Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Do other couples do this? No. If she was excited enough to masturbate in front of me, then I doubt I could keep my hands (or mouth of of her). And the fact is....she would want it. As for me doing it in front of her while she has no libido, I doubt I would get enjoyment out of it and it would only give her some amusing entertainment. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 yes! Once in 25 years... Ha! Oh, well. I guess we are weird, lol. That really not news, actually I sometimes think I partnered with my husband before I was old enough to learn all of the "rules", lol, and so we do a lot of things "wrong". Wrong but good I think it's helped us always stay close and satisfied, and helped me never shy away from cuddling even when I'm really not into sex (because I know he feels comfy having an O as needed). Anyway, it's an idea! Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Ha! Oh, well. I guess we are weird, lol. I don't think it's weird... I'm only jealous... Link to post Share on other sites
mem11363 Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 James - I think you have this about right. At 47 she is a little insecure about her sexual attractiveness - which is strange because the years have touched her so lightly. She gets a sense of emotional fulfillment and the confirmation I still desire her from connecting with me. Not to get too graphic but I touch her a LOT when we connect and I tell her how much I love to look at her and touch her and before she touches me at all she can see that I am completely fully wound up. And I think that is flattering to her. Part of what is happening here is based on her fear of what a celibate husband might act like - angry - quiet - unhelpful - and I freely admit that sucks. But I think the even bigger factors are that she feels I am a super committed husband: - I don't touch the equipment because I would rather wait as long as needed and then have an incredibly bonding experience with her, than perform a manual override every 3-4 days and then have a much less intense - much less wonderful connection with her. And when I travel to Asia for 2 weeks - well I just wait for 2 weeks. - So when I joke with her - I say "you are the ONLY person I have sex with - I don't even have sex with myself anymore because you are so much better at it than I am." - I never ever joke/flirt or interact in any manner with women in our social group that might be considered ambiguous. - I try in general to be a super good H I also think she recognizes how grateful I am that she is doing this even though she isn't coming too. Last night - afterwards I asked her if she felt frustrated - because she didn't finish - and she said she felt really nice, not frustrated. I asked her if there was anything I could do for her - and that was not a courtesy question - that was a sincere question I would have happily done - anything. She just said she was good. I also think that - last night was unusual - like she actually truly wanted to. But some nights for sure she is doing it purely as sexual anesthesia because as she said to me yesterday: "When you don't have sex regularly - you are not as happy - you are more irritable - and that is just how you are - and you need to accept that because I accept it - no one is perfect" So what I feel bad about is NOT that she is making the effort to have sex with me. But that she feels she needs to do it so frequently. I HAVE tried to tell her she can ease up - but she just rolls her eyes and says - "sure babe." The negative about telling her that she doesn't need to initiate sex so often is also a concern. How will she take it? Will she think you have less interest in her? Will she think that she is not being good sexually? Will she think that you are looking elsewhere? Since she said she wants to do it, then how will she take it that you don't want her? And if she does need that reassurance that you love her, will she begin to feel insecure in your relationship? Or will she actually think you are doing it out of compassion and concern for her? Will she take it as a temporary situation only? Mem, you know your wife. If you think she will take it positively, then go for it. Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 I HAVE tried to tell her she can ease up - but she just rolls her eyes and says - "sure babe." unfortunately, you only have yourself to blame in that department... just forget it and get on with it... I wish I had that problem... Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 unfortunately, you only have yourself to blame in that department... just forget it and get on with it... I wish I had that problem... On one hand I wish I did, too, but on the other hand, I would be wondering why she wanted sex. Did she have interest in the sex or was it something else? I guess I over analyze (as TDP would say) no matter how good or bad I have it. Link to post Share on other sites
mem11363 Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 I do wonder. Is this just sexual anesthesia (which is a type of conflict avoidance) or is this just wife showing love by being nice because she wants to be nice. I am definitely good with the latter - not good with the former. On one hand I wish I did, too, but on the other hand, I would be wondering why she wanted sex. Did she have interest in the sex or was it something else? I guess I over analyze (as TDP would say) no matter how good or bad I have it. Link to post Share on other sites
crazycatlady Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 I do wonder. Is this just sexual anesthesia (which is a type of conflict avoidance) or is this just wife showing love by being nice because she wants to be nice. I am definitely good with the latter - not good with the former. Man you sound like a girl questioning motives behind an action. Its sweet that you are trying to be so considerate, but if you question to much, its going to ruin the gesture because she's going to start thinking that you either don't trust her to know her own mind, or that you don't trust her period. 90% of the time I do not orgasm with morning sex but I'll do it for H because I know he LOVES morning sex. Hand job, blow job, sex in what ever position, I try at least several times a month to give him his choice in the morning. Why? Because I love him, even with all the mess currently going on. And part of loving him is doing things that make him really happy. My only wish is that I had learned that attitude earlier on in our marriage. But hey, I'm good but i'm not perfect I think she really does mean it Mem. CCL Link to post Share on other sites
crazycatlady Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 There is a power in sex, and you wife might be totally digging that power. It reaffirms that she is a sexy attractive woman. She is getting something from this, and maybe for her its something that is as important to her as having sex is to you, Mem. CCL Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 I do wonder. Is this just sexual anesthesia (which is a type of conflict avoidance) or is this just wife showing love by being nice because she wants to be nice. I am definitely good with the latter - not good with the former. I don't understand why you don't trust what she tells you? Personally, I'd be bothered by the example you gave of insisting on sex, but also avoiding you for hours prior to sex. That seems "off". I'd want to discuss incidents like that to understand what is going on in her head, and then trust what she's telling you. If you don't trust what she's telling you, there are bigger issues than sex to address. Link to post Share on other sites
OWoman Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Do other couples do this? Sure. It makes for great foreplay Link to post Share on other sites
mem11363 Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 I actually think SHE would quickly get upset with me if I started pushing hard to NOT have sex. I think she would say I am putting HER in a no win situation and she would say: - You are refusing to have sex because I don't feel lust - which I cannot control - You ARE going to feel resentful that we aren't having sex because that is how you (this is true - even though it is unflattering) are wired As for masturbation thing - I would rather look forward to an ever more intense experience as the days pass - than take care of myself. You guys are right. She could easily feel pressured from past conversations. And the no masturbating thing confuses me But what can he do other than talk and trust she says/does what she means? It is possible that she is pushing down resentment, but that is her "fault" and responsibility. He risks offending her and making her feel rejected if he refuses her based on not trusting her motives and feelings. So, in fact, he is in a catch22, too. Link to post Share on other sites
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