sex & marriage: a wife's view

[Toodamnpragmatic]

lol... I have now officially recovered from this morning's bad mood...

 

To me, once a week would be plenty, because I like to diversify...

Yes, I would miss my personal encounters with myself, because they are as pleasurable and nobody is expecting you to be a stallion...

 

But you know, there are people who actually complain if they don't get it at least once a day...

 

And we've heard those talking about 2-3X's/day...... Geez, bet Tiger and Jesse James would have stayed faithful with those quantities......

[mem11363]

before anyone gets too green - there are two core areas of life where I am absolutely certain everyone posting is in much much better shape than me. So while part of my life is very nice - other parts of it are very much not.

 

 

JamesM, you see when we have a common goal, we can revert to the gang mentality and join forces to go after mem11363..... As for the highlighted portion, I really do not see what I would gain ever saying no!!!! Mem11363, now that's another story.

 

As I said (and agree).... Who are we to advise mem11363 of all people???

[xxoo]

. She rarely switches gears at show time but when she does - usually I do get angry. She is not manipulative - just disorganized sometimes so every once in a while comes to bed and is dead tired when the plan was.....

 

Mem, I'm not trying to pick you apart or beat you up. You sound like a caring guy.

 

But, why angry? I can understand disappointed and frustrated, but why angry? Anger doesn't seem appropriate at all if you know she is not being manipulative, it only happens occasionally, and you otherwise have sex regularly.

 

Have you examined why you get angry with her in these situations? Not all men do. My own partner doesn't, and never has.

 

How does your angry reaction, or anticipation thereof, affect your wife's ability to communicate honestly? If you could figure out where the anger is coming from, you might be able to see the situation differently and respond in ways that improve communication between you and your wife.

[JamesM]

before anyone gets too green - there are two core areas of life where I am absolutely certain everyone posting is in much much better shape than me. So while part of my life is very nice - other parts of it are very much not.

 

Now I am curious...make ME feel better.

 

What two areas do you think we are better off than you? Or is that too personal.

 

You may be wrong.

 

TDP, I meant to comment on your quote....

 

JamesM, you see when we have a common goal, we can revert to the gang mentality and join forces to go after mem11363

 

I do agree. I just am amused that we of all people can help. While he may disagree, he may be better in this area that we are. Yet oddly, our experiences of sexual famine may actually help him understand his sexual feast that seems to not be motivated by physical desire.

 

Who knows...perhaps it is simply a bunch of blind men (and a few women) comforting themselves.

[mem11363]

XXOO,

Wife asked exactly same question yesterday. But the reason was - for the first time ever in our marriage - the night before last I fell asleep on HER. Ooooops. I don't know how it happened - I was lying in bed - we had planned to connect and I felt myself drifting off and let it happen.

 

Of course she did ask me about it - at first I think she probably wondered if I had some sort of cardiac event or stroke since I never ever never ever fall asleep prior to show time. So I think she woke me - more to make sure I wasn't well - you know - dead. But the main thing is that she WASN'T angry - I did fully wake up - guilt fueled adrenaline surge - for a minute and offer to get fully awake and shower and come to bed - but I actually really was tired. And I went to sleep. So yesterday she asked me - "how would you have liked it if I acted the way YOU act situation reversed?" And I said I was sorry and would not react that way in the future and now I "get it."

 

We have this rhyming game we play - when poking fun at each other. Someone will say "rhymes with" - we got this from that political interview way way back when someone was asked to comment on a politician and said "rhymes with rich". So we were driving and she was gently chastising me for my history of late night angry moments over sexual disconnects and then she said "rhymes with wypocrite" which is a total violation of the rules of the game. Everyone knows that the clue word has to be a REAL word.

 

Clearly sometimes I take things (like someone falling asleep) personally when I shouldn't.

 

 

Mem, I'm not trying to pick you apart or beat you up. You sound like a caring guy.

 

But, why angry? I can understand disappointed and frustrated, but why angry? Anger doesn't seem appropriate at all if you know she is not being manipulative, it only happens occasionally, and you otherwise have sex regularly.

 

Have you examined why you get angry with her in these situations? Not all men do. My own partner doesn't, and never has.

 

How does your angry reaction, or anticipation thereof, affect your wife's ability to communicate honestly? If you could figure out where the anger is coming from, you might be able to see the situation differently and respond in ways that improve communication between you and your wife.

[mem11363]

Like all parents - I love our 3 kids but they have some awful issues to try to address. This is not your typical teen angst and I can't/won't say more than that.

 

As for the other - aging slowly bites all of us. I have a chronic heartburn condition - GERD - that when combined with my hypochondria - - is often depressing.

 

Now I am curious...make ME feel better.

 

What two areas do you think we are better off than you? Or is that too personal.

 

You may be wrong.

 

TDP, I meant to comment on your quote....

 

 

I do agree. I just am amused that we of all people can help. While he may disagree, he may be better in this area that we are. Yet oddly, our experiences of sexual famine may actually help him understand his sexual feast that seems to not be motivated by physical desire.

 

Who knows...perhaps it is simply a bunch of blind men (and a few women) comforting themselves.

[JamesM]

Like all parents - I love our 3 kids but they have some awful issues to try to address. This is not your typical teen angst and I can't/won't say more than that.

 

As for the other - aging slowly bites all of us. I have a chronic heartburn condition - GERD - that when combined with my hypochondria - - is often depressing.

 

Well...don't count me out yet.

 

I have one teenager thus far and anticipate more problems as the rest get older.

 

As I approach 50, I am NOT getting old...yet. But when I go to the doctor, he treats me as if I am getting older not younger.

 

And GERD...I have infrequent heartburn, but I know that pain. Worst of all....I am also a hypochondriac to a degree. Ask my wife. It is amazing how a pulled muscle is a heart attack to me. I could make a list of all the diseases I have had...or thought I had. And being married to a medical professional does NOT make it better...probably worse.

 

So level the playing field...I am guessing that we all have areas that do make us different, but I don't know how what you mentioned changes you. The kids change her...we determined that. And yes, I can see how GERD can take away interest in sex. How else can these two areas effect you? (Skip the kids thing...I can see why that is more personal).

 

Just curious. And if it doesn't add to the question in your opinion, feel free to say so.

[mem11363]

The GERD thing combined with hypochondria is just a bad place to be mentally. GERD actually doesn't directly effect my desire levels or impact my hydraulics - but the way it has progressed makes me NOT optimistic about the outcome. It has slowly and steadily gotten worse - despite me doing everything I can in terms of meds - low fat - low spice diet - daily nexium for the last 7 years - 2 surgeries back to back about 4 years ago. I even have a bed that reclines - I sleep at an angle - which makes a difference. What sucks is that other than that 8" length of steadily rusting digestive pipe - the rest of me is in very good working order.

 

If it becomes cancerous the 5 year survival rate is 20 percent. There is a major major preventative surgery that might work. I am screwing up my courage to go to the Mayo clinic - they have the best success rates with it. Still if I could only fix one of these problems - mine or the kid situation - I would fix their issues first in a heartbeat. But as we all know there is no surgery for kid problems.

 

 

 

Well...don't count me out yet.

 

I have one teenager thus far and anticipate more problems as the rest get older.

 

As I approach 50, I am NOT getting old...yet. But when I go to the doctor, he treats me as if I am getting older not younger.

 

And GERD...I have infrequent heartburn, but I know that pain. Worst of all....I am also a hypochondriac to a degree. Ask my wife. It is amazing how a pulled muscle is a heart attack to me. I could make a list of all the diseases I have had...or thought I had. And being married to a medical professional does NOT make it better...probably worse.

 

So level the playing field...I am guessing that we all have areas that do make us different, but I don't know how what you mentioned changes you. The kids change her...we determined that. And yes, I can see how GERD can take away interest in sex. How else can these two areas effect you? (Skip the kids thing...I can see why that is more personal).

 

Just curious. And if it doesn't add to the question in your opinion, feel free to say so.

[mem11363]

G,

You are right - but you can't really look at this stuff in a vacuum. I think the main difference here is that while I agree sex is special - I don't treat it as some sacred act that gets 100 percent different treatment than everything else. So if our marriage is one where we BOTH give a lot - than by definition we BOTH take a lot. Overall my wife is without question emotionally stronger than I am, so if she felt ill used OVERALL she would speak.

 

This is our unique blend - everyone likes their coffee different, this works for us. And - my very high flex level in most areas is just as sincere as hers is in bed. The things I flex on simply are not important to me. So I in NO WAY feel ill treated. I am happy and feel my needs are respected. I have broken this down into areas where she controls and I am supportive. Areas that are 50/50, and areas where I control and she is supportive.

 

In areas where wife controls, I am NOT submissive. I am engaged, helpful and very flexible on the outcome. In almost all her control areas wife has a very narrow comfort zone. We look at 20 paint colors - she is ok with 2, I am ok with 19. My only demand - is that if there happens to be a paint color I truly dislike - that she not select it. And most of the time that doesn't even happen - often I am fine with all 20 paint colors.

 

Wife controls

1. All areas of home decor. There is one area where we have rare but painful conflict over this and that is regarding consumer electronics. If she doesn't like how something looks - like a flat screen tv we work it out but it can be fractious. Worst case we demote the item to a less used room. She has excellent taste and I love the final outcome.

2. TV shows we watch, radio stations we listen to, supermarket magazines that get brought home. She ALWAYS has the remote - sets the radio station.

3. How we spend money. She is very careful with money - so despite the first 19 years I made 100 percent of the money - she had more control over how we spent it. She selected our house two different times both times after we agreed on a price range. In both cases they were not my favorite houses at the point of sale and in both cases I later concluded she had made a great/probably the best choice. In both cases she chose from the lower end of the price range. She drove the car buying for her car, and me for mine. She HATES my car. She almost never has to drive it - seriously - she has maybe driven it 5 times in 10 years. She has no reason for hating it - it is very safe - volvo. She gently tries to get me to sell it every now and then. I believe she feels her authority in this situation while murky is derived from the fact that the car is "loosely" part of the house since it is parked in the garage which we as we have established she has utter control over. When she mentions MY car I ask - then repeat a single question until she changes the subject. My question is: "Do you believe the degree of input you have on my car, should be substantially greater then the frequency with which you drive it?" I rarely have to ask that more then twice.

4. How we spend our time. I like most types of games - so when I suggest we play a game - mostly I let her select which card/board game she wants/which sports to play - she wants tennis we play tennis - racquetball if she wants that. Again same rules apply as for everything else - if I have something I really dislike I state my preference firmly. The beauty of the situation is that if you like almost everything, no one begrudges you the occasional dislike. If I say - "last time we played tennis - can we play racquetball this time?" she will immediately say yes. I very rarely exercise my prerogative as I usually don't care. When we are apart we are both indifferent to what/where/with whom the other is. There is NO attempt to control the others away time. NONE. If either of us wants a long weekend away with the boys/girls that request is immediately granted with a smile and "have fun"

5. Who drives. When we go out we always take her car and she always drives unless it is very late (she does not see well in the dark) and she asks me to drive. We both have excellent driving records and drive well. She likes to drive - I don't care - and honestly she dislikes my driving style so I strongly prefer NOT to drive when we are together. She is not a bittch she simply has a narrow comfort zone.

6. Clothing - she picks hers and mine and she gets to select my outfit when we go out. She has nicer taste than I do.

 

These areas are 50/50

1. Food choices

2. Parenting decisions of all types

3. Politics/religion - we don't see eye to eye on everything - LOL - so we have mostly very enjoyable conversations

4. Tone of voice used when speaking to each other: If either speaks in a non respectful tone they can expect to get a quick and vibrant response

5. Conflict over ANYTHING - once conflict begins both of us slide quietly or not so quietly into lawyer mode. We both stay there until someone prevails. I apologize a bit more than half the time.

6. Humor - this is a big one - we both banter with each other all the time. This is one reason I am so flexible about what we do - she is so fun. I have a good time doing just about anything with her.

7. Hair - I do whatever I want. She has requested a mustache/beard for 20 years. Likely never will happen. I get my head hair cut the way I like. It goes without saying that I have no input on her hair - I mean she asks and then ignores my input. LOL.

8. Fitness - we both encourage each other to stay fit. If I am too thin - she starts asking how much I weigh and I make more effort to lift/eat.

 

 

I control:

1. Sex: Same rules apply to her as do for me above. She has always always known that I have a high sex drive and for us to be happy as a couple - our sexual relationship needs to be good for BOTH of us. For the first half of our relationship two things were true:

- I was sexually selfish (meaning our compromise on sexual frequency was heavily slanted to what I wanted)

- She did not grasp the emotional component of sex (meaning that instead of saying - on a night when she didn't want to - "baby I know you are hot tonight - but I am wiped - I will totally rock your world tomorrow - and P.S. no one loves you more then me - all delivered during a hug"). Had she known how to do that - we would have had LESS sex and we BOTH would have been happier. Instead she would simply come to bed late - her passive aggressive way of letting me know she didn't really want to - I would wait up though - angry but horny - and we WOULD have sex. This actually makes me sad - looking back on it. NOT happy like I got my way. Just - ughhh - why did this have to be so painful for both of us.

 

For the last 8-10 years - I have made the effort to stop pressuring her to have sex. And she has learned how to say "how about tomorrow" in a lovely manner that leaves no hard feelings.

 

Once we do hit the red zone though, - at any point in the day I simply look at her and say "I NEED you baby" - she has a reflex response which is "I am all over it" - said with a smile. And then barring a natural disaster she gets in bed early and .....

 

So here is the punchline on all this. I make love to my wife all day long. Through acts of kindness, by remembering things she cares about - by bantering with her in a spicy manner when she is being especially nutty or hard to please. And at least for the last year, when we get in bed at night - more often then not - SHE wants to make love as much or more then I do.

 

2. Vacation planning: She likes me to plan and select our itinerary. So I do. I would be fine if she did.

 

There is more but that really is pretty much the dynamic.

 

WRT to tests for fitness my wife absolutely DOES DO THIS. The way this goes is she begins a test without warning - typically this is by encroaching on one of my boundaries. There is only one certain way to pass the test. Blend calm, humor and a bit of aggressiveness into one overpowering response.

 

Example. Wife wants us to ditch our land lines (2 of them) and just use our cell phones. I am very sensitive to background noise. I HATE bad telephone connections. So I love land lines and not so fond of cell phones. I told her she can kill our fax line but not our voice line. I have explained that just as she is hypersensitive to color I am that way to background noise.

 

We had holiday guests. One couple has no landline. My wife immediately says to me - at the dinner table - we should do what they do and just use our cell phones. I stare at her in disbelief for just a moment and then I tell the following story every word of which is true. And using cadence, facial expressions and so forth which had everyone - wife included laughing pretty good.

 

I address the table - there are 6 other people - 3 other couples:

 

We recently remodeled the bedroom? W did a wonderful job - it is beautiful - take a look after dinner. (at this point W is looking at me suspiciously). The way it worked is we got those Benjamin Moore sample paints - everyone groans - I said we tried about 20 colors - eh babe? W just nods sheepishly. And after about 10 weeks of trying different colors we picked a nice gray color - partly because we were literally out of room on the walls to put up more paint sample colors. Actually she picked the color and I hesitantly said "that looks great" - because she had already changed her mind about the best color about a half dozen time and I was trying to avoid putting myself into a corner - yet again. So she asks me "Do you really like it? Tell me the truth. I reply - YES - firmly. She says - "you said that about the last 5 colors." I look at the floor and mumble - "what did you say?" she asks. I am a color sluut - happy now? I say loudly as I move into her personal space. "Oh" she said backing up. "Are you tired of looking at sample colors?" "No" I quickly reply - "if you don't like this - do not get it." Thing is she DID like it. Or at least she thought she did.

 

Except after the house painter put it on W noticed it had a hideous green tint to it - but only at night time. So a couple nights after we painted the bedroom I came in to get in bed and just got hammered. I mean suddenly I could tell she was angry. Really, really angry - at ME. And totally without warning. You know why?

 

Because I was too stupid to realize what a total fuuking disaster the paint color was. So when I realized the error of my ways, and apologized (deep sigh - what is it that I actually did wrong here?) for being such an insensitive dolt and not recognizing "our" mistake, I said "no big deal - lets change it to what ever you want." And W looked at me dead pan - I swear to God and said - "ok baby but only if you really want to" which made me laugh so hard I almost wet my pants.

 

Now we have this beautiful golden grass cloth wall paper. Really it looks great. And - hand on the bible I really do like it way more then the paint - even though the paint really looked fine. The point is that W is simply highly sensitive to color. As I am to static - on phone calls. I look down the table and say "baby I have an idea - lets tear down the grass cloth - go back to that nice grey color that YOU selected. After we do that - we can switch to cell phones and we can both be miserable until you decide to put the wall paper back up. OK?"

 

The guests are laughing - W is looking rueful.

 

This was a total test for fitness. The phone bill is a financial non issue for us. She KNOWS how I am with background noise. She laughed along with our guests and likely won't mention this again for a long time.

 

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

 

yes, but you are the one who is not taking care of himself... so, you've put extra burden on your wife...

 

you know what, I'm getting fed up with this sex rubbish... I really wish I was single, right now, in my life...

[xxoo]

The guests are laughing - W is looking rueful.

 

This was a total test for fitness. The phone bill is a financial non issue for us. She KNOWS how I am with background noise. She laughed along with our guests and likely won't mention this again for a long time.

 

Your wife didn't take that story to be condescending and publicly humiliating? Because I would

 

eta...isn't this "fitness test" stuff just glorified game playing?

[troggleputty]

Just as long as you realize that if you make fun of your wife in front of other people, however justified you might think it is, however clever you might think you are, you will pay for it in the long run. Dearly.

[JamesM]

Your wife didn't take that story to be condescending and publicly humiliating? Because I would

 

eta...isn't this "fitness test" stuff just glorified game playing?

 

If you read his tale, then you find that the WIFE pointedly mentioned to him that they should switch to cell phones when she KNEW that this was a hot topic between them, and she knew that mem had emphasized a refusal to get rid of the land line.

 

The best way to handle being put on the spot is putting the other person on the spot. She should not have mentioned this in front of other couples as it puts pressure on him to conform. By doing it as she did, he feels that it is he against the crowd.

 

His response was good.

[xxoo]

If you read his tale, then you find that the WIFE pointedly mentioned to him that they should switch to cell phones when she KNEW that this was a hot topic between them, and she knew that mem had emphasized a refusal to get rid of the land line.

 

The best way to handle being put on the spot is putting the other person on the spot. She should not have mentioned this in front of other couples as it puts pressure on him to conform. By doing it as she did, he feels that it is he against the crowd.

 

His response was good.

 

Yes, I see what she did. It was a little dig, but not one that the guests would nec pick up on. It's possible to dodge that dart gracefully in public ("a conversation for another time, babe"), and be direct in private about what she did that was inappropriate.

 

I disagree that putting the other on the spot is the best way to handle it. Two wrongs and all that.

Edited March 26, 2010 by xxoo

[JamesM]

 

I disagree that putting the other on the spot is the best way to handle it. Two wrongs and all that.

 

I understand your view, but another way is saying "fight fire with fire." Sometimes acting passive or evasive indicates to the other that you are weak or uncertain about your position. This means that with something else the person may try it again. Assertively handling it the way the other person did sends a message that such tactics will be handled in like.

 

This does not have anything to do with love for each other. It is learning proper communication techniques.

 

Yes...just my opinion.

[mem11363]

We have a couple rules of engagement when socializing. The first one is that a marital story that is true - can be told for entertainment purposes as long as there is nothing mean spirited in the delivery. And while I was making a serious point - I was being playful in my delivery style.

 

The first couple times she brought up the idea of turning off our land lines in the year before that social event I calmly and firmly told her that if she was really intent on our reducing our monthly spend rate I would work with her to do so - but that I require at LEAST one land line in our house because the background noise and dropped syllables on cell phone calls bother me WAY more than the average person. I was actually a little hurt that she even suggested this the first and/or second time because she KNOWS how I am with background noise.

 

I have a hard time filtering out background noise and filling in the gaps when parts of words or whole words don't come through during a call. It hurts my brain and makes me feel tense. I have always been like this. So when she brought it up at the party - which was the third time overall - I was astonished - I mean in the overall budget a single land line is a really small spend. To give a sense of my priorities I would gladly cut back just about anywhere else including to a more basic cable plan if needed to fund the $30/month we pay for a voice line. Maybe it was just a spontaneous - "see other couples do it this way" thing - I don't know.

 

But sometimes she makes a conscious choice to push boundaries because she wants to see what I will do. And that is ok. The point of the story was to entertain guests about our "interaction" not to make fun of her. As for the bedroom - as I told our visitors afterwards she truly did a beautiful job very cost effectively. The cost of the one painting mistake was small compared to the overall job.

 

She was definitely not offended by my telling the story.

 

Yes, I see what she did. It was a little dig, but not one that the guests would nec pick up on. It's possible to dodge that dart gracefully in public ("a conversation for another time, babe"), and be direct in private about what she did that was inappropriate.

 

I disagree that putting the other on the spot is the best way to handle it. Two wrongs and all that.

[xxoo]

But sometimes she makes a conscious choice to push boundaries because she wants to see what I will do. And that is ok. The point of the story was to entertain guests about our "interaction" not to make fun of her. As for the bedroom - as I told our visitors afterwards she truly did a beautiful job very cost effectively. The cost of the one painting mistake was small compared to the overall job.

 

She was definitely not offended by my telling the story.

 

The whole thing strikes me as very George and Martha from "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf". But, ok. "Pushing boundaries" sounds child/parent; I can't relate to that in my marriage.

 

The part that I thought was mean spirited was not the painting mistake, but the embarrassing description of her overreaction and blaming you in error. It "sounds" ridiculing.

[mem11363]

I have always meant to read that - now I will.

 

I understand your point - the thing is there are two ways to look at this. One of them is: Sometimes when your partner gets really wound up unnecessarily you need to defuse the situation. If I got angry at her every time she was irrational - if she got angry at me every time I was irrational - that would really suck.

 

In the moment the color thing was making her very very agitated. I adopted a soothing, apologetic posture and we quickly resolved the situation. From a logical standpoint she was totally 100 percent in the wrong. But I never gave her grief about that - she really did feel bad that night.

 

If I gave her no slack on color, and she gave me no slack on noisy environments or sexual tension - this would be a much less happy marriage.

 

 

 

 

The whole thing strikes me as very George and Martha from "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf". But, ok. "Pushing boundaries" sounds child/parent; I can't relate to that in my marriage.

 

The part that I thought was mean spirited was not the painting mistake, but the embarrassing description of her overreaction and blaming you in error. It "sounds" ridiculing.

[giotto]

sorry, mem, I can't relate to your marriage at all... we don't need to push boundaries or play games... we never did. What you just described is very alien to me... but then your marriage seems to work... and what about mine?

[xxoo]

sorry, mem, I can't relate to your marriage at all... we don't need to push boundaries or play games... we never did. What you just described is very alien to me... but then your marriage seems to work... and what about mine?

 

We are only hearing one side, of course, but your marriage seems to be suffering due to your wife's mental health issues. Playing games would likely only drive you farther apart.

 

Giotto, your responses to men and women on other threads here are consistent with things my H would say. I think I'm married to a guy like you (maybe a rare breed? hopefully not!), and it certainly hasn't resulted in a sexless marriage. I wouldn't trade him for the world

[giotto]

We are only hearing one side, of course, but your marriage seems to be suffering due to your wife's mental health issues. Playing games would likely only drive you farther apart.

 

I would never play games with my wife... why? Our relationship is based on trust, tolerance (maybe a bit too much sexwise on my behalf... ) and cooperation (again, not a lot in one particular field...). I don't need and I don't want to condition her by playing games or powerplay... because I want her to do things if she wants to do them... otherwise it would be a very hollow existence.

 

Giotto, your responses to men and women on other threads here are consistent with things my H would say. I think I'm married to a guy like you (maybe a rare breed? hopefully not!), and it certainly hasn't resulted in a sexless marriage. I wouldn't trade him for the world

 

I don't think we are a rare breed... I know a lot of considerate men who treat the marriage equally, are nice people and behave loyally. They respect their wives and their marriage. Hopefully you'lll never find yourself in a sexless marriage, although I don't know how long you've been married for and if you have children...

[xxoo]

. Hopefully you'lll never find yourself in a sexless marriage, although I don't know how long you've been married for and if you have children...

 

2 kids, together nearly 20 years (married a few less).

[giotto]

2 kids, together nearly 20 years (married a few less).

 

 

I think you are safe...

[mem11363]

This is odd - I guess everyone has a different approach. My wife is super playful with me. Every once in a while she DOES push a boundary. No one is perfect. Maybe the way I push back is alien to you - but it does not upset her.

 

Thing is if you took us into separate rooms - hooked up a polygraph and asked a few questions - am dead cert you would get the same answers from both:

- does your spouse put you first in terms of priorities

- is your spouse honest with you

- when you are upset with your spouse about something - do they listen and try to help/resolve it

- do you love your spouse

 

G - your comments confuse me - you speak about your wife as this super well adjusted person in terms of behavior and yet - suddenly when it comes to YOUR needs - she is a mentally fragile person who simply cannot tolerate any pressure at all about her lack of sex with you. And she refuses to see a therapist. You can't have it both ways.

 

 

 

sorry, mem, I can't relate to your marriage at all... we don't need to push boundaries or play games... we never did. What you just described is very alien to me... but then your marriage seems to work... and what about mine?

[giotto]

 

G - your comments confuse me - you speak about your wife as this super well adjusted person in terms of behavior and yet - suddenly when it comes to YOUR needs - she is a mentally fragile person who simply cannot tolerate any pressure at all about her lack of sex with you. And she refuses to see a therapist. You can't have it both ways.

 

I'm confused as well... lol, no, I'm not...

 

 

She can be both... I suppose we just connect in a different way. We believe and share the same values in life, we have the same approach to life, raising kids, work, politics, you name it... actually, not music... we don't need to play games or have a powerplay, or to set boundaries. We are absolutely on the same wavelength.

 

But she's ill, and she is not just ill when it comes to my needs. She has found a way to survive with her condition and this does not always include my needs. Remember that I only found out about the extent of the illness a few weeks ago. Everything is clear now. This doesn't mean I don't get upset when she TOTALLY ignores my needs, because she can still cope with life. She can do it. But it takes extra effort from her. I've been observing her lately and I've noticed a few little things she does to shield herself from the recurrent thoughts. I didn't know that. I hadn't noticed before. I really feel sorry for her, but then she has chosen to keep using her defense mechanism instead of therapy. To be honest, I respect that, but she must remember that I exist too... otherwise we will be back to square one...

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I hope that you are able to find a way to help her get where she needs to be mentally.

 

As for the power struggles - I simply don't know what to say other than when you have 2 strong willed people in one house and they disagree about what should be done you try to compromise. And even though we also agree on kids, work, money - but NOT politics - there are things we disagree about.

 

And I actually think we have pretty close to a 50-50 equilibrium - if you spent a week with us - I think you would see a very high level of cooperation and game playing - mainly ping pong - that is done with mostly laughter and light banter. And the conflict is honestly framed and both of us try to be fair to each other while resolving it.

 

When people say they don't have power struggles and boundary issues - I question that. Maybe they resolve them differently than we do.

 

Like I think you not only have a huge boundary issue - it seems like your wife has emotionally overpowered you. And sure - we can talk about me and the fact that on the sexual expectation front I would like to make some adjustments - I would like my wife to feel MORE empowered and I need to feel LESS entitled. I just think that your wife is either going full frontal with you - like flat out playing chicken to see if you will leave over this OR she quickly morphs into victim mode.

 

You don't know me - but I rarely do the loud/scary aggressive thing - when it works - and scares the other person - you lose the comm channel almost totally and who wants that?

 

But if I were in your shoes - I would keep coming back to the same theme: "Do you not love me enough to physically love me enough so that I don't feel miserably rejected?"

 

A long time ago you melted down, directly threatened divorce and demanded she commit to once a week. And then it slid to once every 10 days. And then for many months she completely blew you off. Do you truly think she couldn't TELL you were getting more and more agitated during that time? It sounded to me like she literally ruined the holidays for you. And yet you "weren't allowed" to discuss it with her because it makes HER upset. Somehow she FORGOT that you want/need sex even though she sees you every day - and climbs into bed with you every night. And when you are getting steadily more tense over MONTHS - she doesn't notice that either. And yet you think I have an issue with GAMES and BOUNDARIES. She tells you she LIKES sex and comes but you are forbidden to ask for it - mention it when she forgets - and just have to pray she doesn't ignore you. She tells you she enjoys it but in a separate conversation she flat out told you LOTS of married people live together totally celibate and are happy and she made it clear that IS what she wants - ZERO SEX. If that isn't the ultimate game of the sky is black - no I mean it is NOT BLACK - no it is BLACK, no it is NOT BLACK.

 

Notice the distinction - it IS a game. She doesn't say the sky is black - no the sky is white - no it is black. Because that is a direct contradiction.

 

Saying it is black, no it is white would be like her saying I like having sex with you and I come and then saying I hate having sex with you. She doesn't do that. She says "I like having sex and come" and then later she says "I don't want to have sex with you - ever and don't want you to bring it up anymore"

 

That is a game my friend. And neither my wife or I would EVER show each other that level of disrespect by repeatedly doing that to the other person. It isn't just a game - it is a deliberate strategy to define a compromise that is 100 percent to her liking despite the fact she knows it makes you feel awful.

 

 

 

I'm confused as well... lol, no, I'm not...

 

 

She can be both... I suppose we just connect in a different way. We believe and share the same values in life, we have the same approach to life, raising kids, work, politics, you name it... actually, not music... we don't need to play games or have a powerplay, or to set boundaries. We are absolutely on the same wavelength.

 

But she's ill, and she is not just ill when it comes to my needs. She has found a way to survive with her condition and this does not always include my needs. Remember that I only found out about the extent of the illness a few weeks ago. Everything is clear now. This doesn't mean I don't get upset when she TOTALLY ignores my needs, because she can still cope with life. She can do it. But it takes extra effort from her. I've been observing her lately and I've noticed a few little things she does to shield herself from the recurrent thoughts. I didn't know that. I hadn't noticed before. I really feel sorry for her, but then she has chosen to keep using her defense mechanism instead of therapy. To be honest, I respect that, but she must remember that I exist too... otherwise we will be back to square one...