why does he need me if he has porn

[littlepiggy1]

I notice a lot of projection from women on this issue. I.E. "*I* don't fantazie about or look at other naked men, therefore there is no reason for my man to either!"

 

As I already cited, we are not biologically a monogomous species. And men and women are wired differently (although women do fantasize, use porn, etc too).

 

In an ideal world, every man would have 5 wives, but hey, what can you do?

 

Oh, and btw. Your man is broken. Or gay.

 

 

I totally agree with you Rainfall that there is no reason for a man that is in a commited relationship to be looking at porn if he is getting sex from his SO. I also agree that if a guy has to look at porn or check out anything female he must be looking for something else or something better. I'm very lucky my man doesn't look at porn or ogle other women. Honestly there are some musicians and actors I think are good looking but I have no desire to see them naked or to imagine sleeping with them!! Looks are important but not that important. Just cause some guy is hot doesn't mean he will have a great personality. I think my man is the best looking but also his personality and how he is is what turns me on. Most men do look at porn and act like animals in heat. The thing that makes me sick about men like that is the fact that they'll see some women they think is hot and want to screw her regardless of her personality or whether they have anything in common with her or not.

[rainfall]

I notice a lot of projection from women on this issue. I.E. "*I* don't fantazie about or look at other naked men, therefore there is no reason for my man to either!"

 

As I already cited, we are not biologically a monogomous species. And men and women are wired differently (although women do fantasize, use porn, etc too).

 

In an ideal world, every man would have 5 wives, but hey, what can you do?

 

Oh, and btw. Your man is broken. Or gay.

 

I am sooooooo sick of men using that they are "wired" to want to sleep with a bunch of different women as an excuse to look at porn/check out other chicks.

No being "wired" someway has NOTHING to do with it. It is that men are usually shallow and the second their SO looks start slipping or they don't get sex as often they start to look around for a substitue.

I am glad my man is what you would consider "broken." (I know that wasn't directed at me but my man does not look at porn anymore so I guess that would make him "broken" because he is happy with me. )

[littlepiggy1]

I am sooooooo sick of men using that they are "wired" to want to sleep with a bunch of different women as an excuse to look at porn/check out other chicks.

 

That's nice. It's reality, though. We are not a biologically monogomous species. It's a fact. I already cited scientific literature to that effect and can do again if you like.

 

No being "wired" someway has NOTHING to do with it.

 

Sure it does.

 

It is that men are usually shallow and the second their SO looks start slipping or they don't get sex as often they start to look around for a substitue.

 

Yay for generalizations! My turn: Women are usually horribly insecure and unrealistic in their expectations of a modern relationship.

 

I am glad my man is what you would consider "broken." (I know that wasn't directed at me but my man does not look at porn anymore so I guess that would make him "broken" because he is happy with me. )

 

Broken OR gay. He might have turned gay.

[rainfall]

Broken OR gay. He might have turned gay.

 

 

Yeah trust me my man is not gay. I am just able to satisfy him better then the porn skanks ever could dream of.

[littlepiggy1]

Yeah trust me my man is not gay. I am just able to satisfy him better then the porn skanks ever could dream of.

 

How do you know? Maybe he's fantasizing about Brad Pitt while he's with you. You don't know!!!

[rainfall]

How do you know? Maybe he's fantasizing about Brad Pitt while he's with you. You don't know!!!

 

Yeah:p I REALLY don't think that is the case. But I guess I would take him being gay over him wanting to sleep with other women anyday. But again I really really doubt he is gay.

[littlepiggy1]

But I guess I would take him being gay over him wanting to sleep with other women anyday.

 

That's just weird.

[rainfall]

That's just weird.

 

No... if he wants to sleep with other men there is nothing wrong woth me. I am just the wrong sex.

However if he wants to sleep with other women then there IS something wrong with me and our relationship.

[littlepiggy1]

No... if he wants to sleep with other men there is nothing wrong woth me. I am just the wrong sex.

However if he wants to sleep with other women then there IS something wrong with me and our relationship.

 

I still don't believe you when you claim you have high self-esteem. Your comments still suggest you derive your self-worth from your ability to keep your BF from wanting anyone else.

[rainfall]

I still don't believe you when you claim you have high self-esteem. Your comments still suggest you derive your self-worth from your ability to keep your BF from wanting anyone else.

 

Think what you like... I think I look good and a deserve a man who loves me and doesn't want to sleep with others. If I felt bad about myself I would accept it thinking I couldn't ever find that.

[Woggle]

Everybody male and female looks. No matter how faithful you are it is just natural to notice that somebody is attractive. The key is having self control and not acting on that attraction.

[rainfall]

Everybody male and female looks. No matter how faithful you are it is just natural to notice that somebody is attractive. The key is having self control and not acting on that attraction.

 

 

I might notice someone attractive however I never give them a second thought. I do not care what they look like naked. I do not want to sleep with them. I do not care to think about them while masturbating. So if by look you mean notice and they forget about then ok. But if you mean have sexual thought about then no not everybody does it.

[littlepiggy1]

Think what you like... I think I look good and a deserve a man who loves me and doesn't want to sleep with others. If I felt bad about myself I would accept it thinking I couldn't ever find that.

 

But you have this notion that an inability to be 100% exclusive both physically AND mentally is somehow a failure on your part. You seem unable to accept that it might be something beyond your personal control, especially if it is in fact a base biological characteristic inherent to the population at large. IOW, it might not have anything to do with you personally.

 

And especially so given that you have no control over someone else's mind. Your b/f could have fantasies up the wazoo and all you might end up doing is causing him to never reveal that to you.

[Walk]

I think what riles me up abut the porn issue is that I feel I lose control over the quality of my life. I want a guy who desires me, shows me he desires me, and thinks I'm special. Its something I value and it adds quality to my life. When my SO goes to a strip club, or masturbates while looking at another woman, then I end up feeling like I'm not measuring up. I don't feel special. Anyone would do at that point. Well, anyone with a hot body mostly exposed. But I know I can't compete against some of these women. I wasn't born with the great genes. So I end up feeling I have NO control over the situation. No matter how intelligent I am, how much I learn, how hard I work to develop talents and abilities... in the end, the "new" hot body wins out.

 

The unknown has a great deal of appeal to most people. That "grass is greener" mentality. And thats hard to combat. It's not impossible, but it's difficult. And I have a lot of respect for Rainfall in how she understands her bf's needs, and fights to keep those a priority in their relationship. How many women really would do that? Rainfall said she basically makes sex "on tap" for her bf. That to me is outstanding. I wish more people would fight that hard to meet their partners needs. She's basically stating that she's willing and ready whenever he is, but the stipulation is that he has to keep porn out of the relationship. That's a comprimise as far as I'm concerned. He has full choice in the matter, and can leave at any second if he doesn't like it.

 

So although Rainfall has some extremely narrow views on what constitutes cheating... I think she's offering something greater then she's asking her man to give up. And I can't really fault her for that. I don't think I would completely forbid porn because the forbidden becomes more tempting, but at least she offered something of equal or greater value in return to the man.. sex on tap. She's still trying to show him that his needs are a priority, and SHE wants to be the one to fulfill them.

 

And I think you guys are entrenching her views even further the more you attempt to convince her she's looking at this wrong.

[littlepiggy1]

I hear where you are coming from Wild. And I think you do hit upon the issue, but I just wonder about the solution.

 

I believe the solution lies in expectations. In rainfall's case, she seems to want total and utter control over her boyfriend's sexual desire. I think this is grossly unrealistic and she is simply setting her self up for failure.

 

As far as "sex on tap", sometimes we don't want that. I know there are times when I don't want sex with my (now ex) g/f, I just want to whack off by myself. It's less about other women and simply about not wanting to go through the hassle of having another person there. I equate to going to the bathroom to relieve a bodily function. I don't necessarily want someone else there to wipe when I'm done.

 

Now what's relevant about that, and this is something I was informed by a professional counceler, is that for men in particular there is a strong link between porn and masturbation formed during adolescence. This is due to the fact that most men use porn as a masturbatory aid. I know that when my ex wanted me to stop looking at porn, my first instinct was that she wanted me to stop masturbating. Now this isn't to say that I exclusively use porn to masturbate, but most of the time I do. And when I do, it tends to be less about the other women so much as watching a sex act for arrousal. In fact, I would say I think more about having sex with other women from contacts with real women, as opposed to porn. I recognize that there is a difference between a fantasy and reality.

 

I think there's a large disconnect between views here, which is why I think so much conflict arises from these issues. I admit I don't fully "get" this idea of being the sole point of sexual desire from someone else, in a relationship or not. I know that I would never expect that from an SO. To me it smacks of insecurity, but maybe I'm wrong and there's something else there. Some other type of wiring that I can't appreciate because I'm simply not wired that way.

[rainfall]

But you have this notion that an inability to be 100% exclusive both physically AND mentally is somehow a failure on your part. You seem unable to accept that it might be something beyond your personal control, especially if it is in fact a base biological characteristic inherent to the population at large. IOW, it might not have anything to do with you personally.

 

And especially so given that you have no control over someone else's mind. Your b/f could have fantasies up the wazoo and all you might end up doing is causing him to never reveal that to you.

 

 

There is no way I would ever WANT him to tell me about how he has fantasies about other women. That would be the most hurtful thing he could ever say to me and I would have to wonder if we were right for each other.

It is a flaw if he has to think about someone esle mentally because I should be able to satisfy him 100%. If I am not able to satisfy him 100% then he should find someone who can or find someone who is not 100% satisfied with him so that way they would both have to fantasize.

 

really think in SOME cases people only settle in a relationship for someone who is less then their ideal partner and porn/fantasy feels the needs the real life partner can't.

[littlepiggy1]

because I should be able to satisfy him 100%.

 

Why? Where is this idea coming from? What are you basing this on?

[littlepiggy1]

Btw, I want to emphasize that it really is unrealistic to expect a partner not to fantasize about someone else sometimes:

 

Gender differences in the proportion of sexual fantasies involving someone other than a current partner (extradyadic fantasies) were explored using an anonymous questionnaire administered to 349 university students and employees (ages 18 to 70) who reported that they were currently in heterosexual relationships. Eighty-seven percent of the sample (98% of men and 80% of women) reported having extradyadic fantasies in the past 2 months. A hierarchical regression analysis revealed that, compared to women, a larger percentage of men's sexual fantasies were extradyadic even after controlling for the effects of relationship length, number of prior sex partners, any prior incidents of actual extradyadic sexual behavior or "cheating" on the current partner, and socioeconomic status.

 

In addition, it was found that the proportion of extradyadic fantasies increased as a function of relationship length for both genders, while prior incidents of extradyadic sexual behavior and a larger number of prior partners were associated with a higher proportion of extradyadic fantasies for women only.

 

 

Hicks, T.V., and H. Leitenberg. Sexual fantasies about one's partner versus someone else: Gender differences in incidence and frequency. Journal of Sex Research. Feb 2001.

[new_stella]

littlepiggy1, would you opt for an open marriage if given an opportunity?

 

Or, do you like the idea of physical fidelity and are happy with just fantasising about other people?

[littlepiggy1]

littlepiggy1, would you opt for an open marriage if given an opportunity?

 

Unlikely.

 

Or, do you like the idea of physical fidelity and are happy with just fantasising about other people?

 

Yes, I could live with that.

[new_stella]

littlepiggy1, would you opt for an open marriage if given an opportunity?

Unlikely.

Would you mind explaining why not?

Is it because of the social norms, or something else?

 

I mean, if monogamy is not natural, why should people force themselves to stay monogamous? Desiring other people and not acting on it can only lead to frustration.

[littlepiggy1]

Would you mind explaining why not?

Is it because of the social norms, or something else?

 

Nah, it ain't social norms. It's largerly a personality thing, plus pragmatism.

 

For starters, I'm not very prosmisuous. While I have sexual fantasies and watch porn, I don't generally go trolling for sex very much even while single. Heck, it's been close to a year since I've gotten laid. I chock it up to a lower-than-average sex drive, as well as being somewhat introverted.

 

In addition, entering into such a relationship brings a certain degree of risk (i.e. STDs). Since if I was in such a relationship I wouldn't like take advantage of it, I don't see the point of the added risk of a prosmiscuous partner.

 

I'd leave the option open for threesomes and such, but it would be very situationally dependent.

 

I mean, if monogamy is not natural, why should people force themselves to stay monogamous? Desiring other people and not acting on it can only lead to frustration.

 

I don't think people should force themselves to stay monogomous. I think people should enter into whatever relationship situation makes them the happiest. But I think people should recognize that the social norm of a monogomous relationship--and in particular, a monogomous relationship for life--isn't that realistic.

[new_stella]

Thanks, littlepiggy!

 

So, if I got it right you would choose the monogamous (or almost monogamous) relationship and, sort, of satisfy your desire for other people through porn and fantasies – reducing the risk and complications of doing it with real people. Occasionally though, you would allow ‘a bit of a real thing’ to both you and your partner.

 

Am I right?

[littlepiggy1]

Pretty much. I also don't really expect to get into a relationship-for-life. Although that may definitely be complicated down the road when it comes to kids and such, so I will likely have to re-evaluate my own personal stance and goals at the time.

[iamwhatiam]

I would like to add a few points here.

 

Firstly, true love in my opinion represents a total devotion, openness and togetherness. You may have experienced the feeling of when you fall in love so much, that you spend as much time as you can with your partner, and after you go home, you can hardly wait for the next moment to be together again. Well, I can assure you that that feeling can last for many years afterwards. That implies that you are simply not alone anymore, and all your needs, time, desires, you share with your partner, and passionately. I mean, much more than just sex.

 

Secondly, I grew up as a typical adolescent in the sense you are referreing to, ie. masturbating with porn (or simply pictures of naked women), and looking at other women and commenting them with friends, and I simply took it for granted, I never questioned why I did it.

 

After falling in love with my partner, I didn't realise that I continued doing this, after one day she pointed out that she didn't like it, and explained in simple terms why, and I agreed with her, that watching other women, when I have one I adore and have great sex with, simply doesn't go together. And that, although when watching porn I am looking at the sexual act, it is the woman involved in it that influences whether I'd watch it or not (I wouldn't watch it if I found her body ugly).

 

I started questionning then my approach to looking at other women and watching porn, and realised that it was nothing else but habit - something I had always done, all my friends and colleagues did, and never asked myself why. In my case, once I realised that, I felt I really didn't want to do that anymore, not that I would feel restricted in any way - I simply didn't want to do that anymore. And I felt, in a way, free, and glad I am not part of that anymore.

 

As we were talking about the subject, she was telling me how she fantacised about me, so I started doing the same thing when I jerk off (I mean, fantacising about her, for those linguistic purists who would think I started fantacising about myself), and I found it much more satisfying. I still watched porn few times after that, but last time I watched it, I couldn't stop feeling it was all fake and stupid, that it drove me off it altogether.

 

(One thought in this regard: maybe a couple of movies with a camera showing the whole time how the porn is being made, would demistify this thing, and possibly make some effect on all this discussion.)

 

The point is, also, that I am one of the few men who do not fantacise about women. While I'd watch porn, I'd look at the scene, and never imagined I was with the woman in it. I don't sit and imagine I am with Pamela Anderson or whoever and having sex wiht her - simply never worked with me.

 

In the end, as a conclusion, I do agree with some other comments that, when you have real partner who is doing for everything you ever wanted, you simply do not have to have any need for anyone else, and that can last the lifetime.

 

By the way, I don't agree that it's been proven that human society is either monogamous or poligamous - the sources to prove either are too scarce and it may take many year before reasonable conclusion could be made.