"I like you, but you are just too nice"

[luvtoto]

A balanced guy does things on this list because they actually reflect who he is, and NG does them to earn love, which is ridiculous. It's all about context.

 

I bought my GF flowers this weekend because we were going to spend the weekend out of town at my cabin. It made her feel good.. but I didn't buy her flowers to get her to the cabin.

Yes! This has been my point all along. Don't make the woman feel obligated to love you back.

 

I am sure there are some NG's out there that are confused by what we are trying to say her. It's a very difficult thing to explain.

 

A_C, is that why you are always saying, "stabbin' in the cabin"?

[Art_Critic]

A_C, is that why you are always saying, "stabbin' in the cabin"?

Yeppers....

 

Needy or clingy guys gives flowers and gifts to compensate for lack of confidence in themselves and the relationship..

You are right that in the end the woman feels obligated and that just turns her away

 

Romantic guys give flowers and gifts to enhance the already building experience..

We also understand that there are no obligations...

 

I read a thread earlier this morning about a guy that was pissed off because he did this or that for his girl ( got her into a nice car ) and she pays him back by breaking up with him..

 

Well something tells me that he gave with the idea that it was an obligation that she needed to refill on her part.. He was being needy

[CaliGuy]

The thing about doing "nice" things for someone is it has to be in moderation. If you do it too often (like saying I love you too much) it can have the wrong effect.

 

I agree with Art. If done appropriately they can be very romantic things. Done too soon or too often and it can kill attraction.

 

And Art, the guy buying his ex a car was trying to "buy" her love and affection. That says "needy" more than anything. Women don't want the pressure of having to love someone for what they do for them. They want to love them for how they make a woman FEEL.....

[Vertex]

I think the idea is to set some boundaries and stay with them. A nice guy is often too accomodating. I think this is something I've had issues with. Too willing to sacrifice elements of my own life in order to cater to another's. I've given up school acceptances, money, time, effort, and I suppose dignity in order to win over a girl. The thing is, a girl doesn't respect "nice guys" who is so willing to give.

 

You have to be able to function alone -- how would you happily conduct your life without another in it? Those are the boundaries that must be set, and so a girl/boyfriend in your life should be more of a supplement and not a replacement for the other factors in your life. If you try to compensate for your sacrifices and lack of self-confidence with gifts and too much attention, the girl is going to simply get bored of you. There will be no chase. Believe it or not, girls like chase.

 

Alphamale's advice, however extreme to the eyes of one trying to remain somewhat moderate, I think has some weight to it. Reality does show certain patterns. I'm not saying you should be mean to a girl, or alternate between mean and nice, because I don't know a single healthy relationship that has lasted for a long time under such actions, but being fully nice/accomodating/sacrificial will backfire on you.

 

Set your boundaries and don't cross them or allow them to be crossed. The moment you do, you're allowing yourself to become a doormat. A doormat is just that -- you allow others to walk all over you as they see fit. You are their bitch, essentially. At some point you need to learn how to say no. You TEACH people how to treat you. You don't treat someone a certain way and blindly HOPE they will appreciate it and reciprocate in the way you secretly desire. You teach them how to treat you by establishing boundaries.

[Forever Searching]

For me it's not about a guy being too nice. If I'm attracted to him and think he's sexy then I don't care how nice he is it's not going to make me loose attraction or interest to him. My definition of nice guy is someone I would never be able to stand making out with. I think it's a nice way of saying "you are nice but not my type" they just leave out the "not my type" part.

[LuminousZ]

Most "nice guys" might not realize these little facts. I am just wanting to tell them. Somebody has to.

 

Nice guys...do you want to know when a girl likes you early on?? When she is requesting things from you. Wether it be her spending more time with you...whatever. That's the fun part for us! Asking and then receiving. Gives a sense of accomplishment when we get what we want from you.

 

Don't just hand things over to us.

 

luv, This advice is brilliant!

 

I have applied this concept into my approach and early indications are promising...,

 

Now whenever I find myself thinking.., oh thats nice, I bet she would like that - I quickly recall the "luvtoto concept" and redirect those horrible "NG" considerations.., I am now able to recognize those thoughts as evil relationship killers!

 

Thank you for sharing!

[alphamale]

Crap, I think I would LOVE it if a guy were sappy and romantic.

WORDS: ...KC says she wants romance and sappiness

 

I've never had that before.

ACTIONS: ...KC never dates men who would give romance & sappiness

[IWalkAlone]

The day following first time I have sex with a woman, I have flowers sent to her workplace (assuming she's someone I want to see again). At that time women feel vulnerable and are worried that you won't call again. Having flowers show up at work (and visible to her frields at work) exceeds her expectations.

 

I DO NOT order flowers for someone I haven't slept with.

[alphamale]

The day following first time I have sex with a woman, I have flowers sent to her workplace (assuming she's someone I want to see again).

I never do that....mainly cause she could have just thought of it as a one time deal.

 

I DO NOT order flowers for someone I haven't slept with.

I usually wait to do the flowers thang after a few months and be both agree we want to keep seeing each other. Otherwise I'm not gonna waste $75 for a nice bouqet thats delivered to her doorstep.

[Rooster_DAR]

What about after years of being together, buying your S/O flowers or gifts seems like it would be different then. My EX bought me things quite often, and I would randomly buy her flowers or take her out to a play. I'm trying to determine if was the typical NG, but I really dont feel like I was. On the contrary, back when my EX was saying "you are an *******" our relationship seemed to be better and that's when I was a little more selfish. When she started calling me by my firstname (instead of baby) and showed lack of interest in sex, I started buying more things and taking her more places. Oviously didn't work, look where I'm at now. It' seems roles reverse themselves and the balance got lost in the shuffle.

 

Just an observation.

[luvtoto]

luv, This advice is brilliant!

 

I have applied this concept into my approach and early indications are promising...,

 

Now whenever I find myself thinking.., oh thats nice, I bet she would like that - I quickly recall the "luvtoto concept" and redirect those horrible "NG" considerations.., I am now able to recognize those thoughts as evil relationship killers!

 

Thank you for sharing!

Well, I am glad, LuminousZ. My concept is no guarantee that you'll never hear that famous one-liner again. But, if you understand that the more you try to convince her or suck-up to make a woman like you...the more she probably won't. IMO.

 

Keep things balanced...let, the woman do a little sucking up to you. OH, that sounded bad. haha.

[bab]

The day following first time I have sex with a woman, I have flowers sent to her workplace (assuming she's someone I want to see again). At that time women feel vulnerable and are worried that you won't call again. Having flowers show up at work (and visible to her frields at work) exceeds her expectations.

 

I like this idea!! I don't think this is a NG thing, until you do it after each time you have sex. Unless of course you are just using her for sex, then it's jerky because it gives her a false sense of security.

[alphamale]

I don't think this is a NG thing, .

I do....

[rglove]

Most "nice guys" might not realize these little facts. I am just wanting to tell them. Somebody has to.

 

Nice guys...do you want to know when a girl likes you early on?? When she is the requesting things from you. Wether it be her spending more time with you...whatever. That's the fun part for us! Asking and then receiving. Gives a sense of accomplishment when we get what we want from you.

 

Don't just hand things over to us.

 

Asking and then receiving is fun for me too, but I don't necessarily like being made demands upon as for as spending more time with you. I'm a very sociable and outgoing person and enjoy the company of others, but I'll make time for my girl. I mean you're my girl because I like you and enjoy your company, so I'll make/find the time for you, but if you bring out that possessive behavior, I have not time for you and your demands. You can politely suggest that we spend more time together, but demand and we've got problems. See, I want a woman who appreciate the fact that I can give attention, have very romantic side, and an incredibly smooth (silver) tongue, and who is able to appreciate my very amorous nature and lascivious playfulness, not the the type of women whose low self esteem I have to constantly raise and adjust or the type of girl who can't handle attention, affection.

 

A little story:

 

One of the women that really endeared herself to me was this girl/woman Kristine/Christine who shop in the retail establishment in which I use to work. She was this "hot" blonde that most of the younger males (men and boys) kinda had it for. I took the time to reach out to her with my olive branch of charm and compliments - which she was highly receptive to and fore too long we developed a banter back and forth, one she became familiar with me and we established a nice rapport. I got that see like the attention ( and being the center of a attention, drama a little bit which was fine with me. What has her ever endeared to me though is a comment I was told she made to one of my male workmates by him. One afternoon she was in the store and was in my department visiting and I was helping her in finding nurses shoes, and my workmate/friend was passing by on the way to his department and noticed her and peek over to make sure. On his way by, he asked her, 'gonna come by and see me later". Anyway when I saw him later, after she had left, he told me she said/asked him "You love me don't you Kerry?" Now, he told me this to tell me how looking at the guy she was with - pushing out his chest and flexing towards him how he said unabashedly, YEAH!!! I it just took me the fact that she could and would say that to him - of coarse she did it partly for the drama, but I still like the extreme self esteem it represented. If a girl doesn't like a guy, she can always turn him away and I personally appreciate a woman who is in control of her own femininity/feminineness, and can make use of all her feminine wiles when adventitious to do as such - as long as not done maliciously. I also appreciate a woman who can tell me no, or where to go, and and actually hold the word no in reverence, because without "no", "yes" means nothing. And if I'm going after a female hard, I like her to know that she's in control (meaning I'll only go as far as she lets me) and she can feel free to tell me no, redirect me, or tell me where to go, because when she saids yes or lets me progress and carry on freely it because she wants me to, because "yes" is what she means!!! I'll romance, woo, and charm you all day, flirt with you for hours, but I only want to, if you're into my attention. I like wonderful rapport/repartee and a receptive subject/object of my attention/advances and not cold dead fishes!!!

[luvtoto]

Asking and then receiving is fun for me too, but I don't necessarily like being made demands upon as for as spending more time with you.

I would never demand any guy to spend time with me. Or make demands on him. That is unhealthy. That would be the kiss of death IMO of any relationship. She would then be needy & insecure and the tables would be reversed.

 

NG's have trouble picking up on the subtle hints that women give out. Trust me ... they are there.

 

If you are struggling trying to figure out does she or doesn't she like me early on in your relationship, then STOP. Stop showing HER how much you care for and how badly you want to find out. This approach will not work, IMO.

 

What you need to do is take a step back. Refocus on you. Not her.

 

No,nononono, not her...YOU.

 

Let her make an effort to reach out to you. Wether through a phone call or whatever.

 

Wait for an obvious hint that she is indeed interested in you. You deserve that kind of respect don't you think??

 

Don't put her in the position to feel bad for breaking things off with you. Show her that you have a life. Hopefully, you do have one. If not and you need to pretend that you do to make a point to her, then you probably aren't ready to be dating anyways.

 

If she is not giving you the attention or affection or whatever, then you have no business giving it to her in a needy, clingy, manipulative attempt to win her over.

 

This is all about protecting our hearts people!! And gaining some self-respect and respect from others.

[luvtoto]

At that time women feel vulnerable and are worried that you won't call again.

If a women is worried that you might not call her after sex...then IMO you are not in the NG category. Do you see yourself as that? Manipulative and clingy?

[rockerrockstar]

Lov is totally right. Also, It is really hard to reprogram your self from being the typical nice guy but it can be done. I would always try to do the things you see in the movies like buying flowers, giving compliments, taking her to dinner. I called all the time. I became friends with them. But what happened? The more I tried the more the women were not interested.

 

I found that it is better to not let them know exactly how you feel about them. It is better to let them come to you. Let them call you. You can call but dont do it all the time. Let the woman chase you that is what they like. Attract women and don't be a typical nice guy that is the solution. I was too much of a nice guy the friends only type until I found this great ebook www.datemaxer.com . I hope it helps you out as much as it has me. It is sad most of my friends don't even go out to the bars no more. The are so frustrated with women that they just stay home on the weekends. I don't know what they are thinking. How are they going to meet women if they don't go out and be in areas womens are at. I guess they just think they are going to find them at work, from a friend, or family member will introduce them. Ok so that happens what is the chance they will find someone they are attracted to that will be a good match. I think it is low. They really should be trying to find their own match not waiting for someone else to do it for them.

 

So yes Luv is completey right. I do think Alpha is right on but I do feel bad being this guy that goes from being interested to not intested but I do think it works. I think I have screwed things up doing that in the past at the wrong times. Anyways I guess it takes practice. Yeah I would rather be this nice guy but I know that does not work. I guess there is a happy medium. So far just trying to not show too much intest seems to work well. Let the woman show the interest and use body langue to attaract and to limit you rejection. You can tell some times if you keep your eyes opened that a woman is checking you out. Or you can flirt and see if she is intersted.

[rockerrockstar]

Yeah there has been times when I rejected a girl and she just came after me and wanted me real bad. So yes alpha's stuff works in some situations. I figured that out on accident. Of course at the time I really was not intested in that girl.

[CaliGuy]

What about after years of being together, buying your S/O flowers or gifts seems like it would be different then. My EX bought me things quite often, and I would randomly buy her flowers or take her out to a play. I'm trying to determine if was the typical NG, but I really dont feel like I was. On the contrary, back when my EX was saying "you are an *******" our relationship seemed to be better and that's when I was a little more selfish. When she started calling me by my firstname (instead of baby) and showed lack of interest in sex, I started buying more things and taking her more places. Oviously didn't work, look where I'm at now. It' seems roles reverse themselves and the balance got lost in the shuffle.

 

Just an observation.

 

You know you're a NG when you do things to gain her approval, it's that simple. If you do something nice, not expecting something in return, then that's balanced behavior, not a NICE GUY thing. Just don't do it to the point it loses being a "special" thing.

 

Also, it helps to be selfish every once in a while. It shows you have a backbone. I'm not saying be a jerk but if you can't make yourself happy you certainly won't know how to make someone else happy.

 

"Door mat" nice guys kill attraction.

More "balanced" guys can create the right kind attraction.

"Jerks" create the wrong kind of attraction.

 

My friend asked me at the last minute "Hey man, can you give me a ride to the airport tomorrow at 5am?" I'm like "Dude, take a shuttle. They run all hours of the day and are cheap."

 

Did he get mad? Nope. In fact, dude bought me lunch the next week. I wasn't being selfish, but he sprung it on me last minute (an emergency due to your ill planning does NOT constitute an emergy for me) and it was a Saturday. I was taking care of myself.

 

Cheers.

[rglove]

I would never demand any guy to spend time with me. Or make demands on him. That is unhealthy. That would be the kiss of death IMO of any relationship. She would then be needy & insecure and the tables would be reversed.

 

NG's have trouble picking up on the subtle hints that women give out. Trust me ... they are there.

 

If you are struggling trying to figure out does she or doesn't she like me early on in your relationship, then STOP. Stop showing HER how much you care for and how badly you want to find out. This approach will not work, IMO.

 

What you need to do is take a step back. Refocus on you. Not her.

 

No,nononono, not her...YOU.

 

Let her make an effort to reach out to you. Wether through a phone call or whatever.

 

Wait for an obvious hint that she is indeed interested in you. You deserve that kind of respect don't you think??

 

Don't put her in the position to feel bad for breaking things off with you. Show her that you have a life. Hopefully, you do have one. If not and you need to pretend that you do to make a point to her, then you probably aren't ready to be dating anyways.

 

If she is not giving you the attention or affection or whatever, then you have no business giving it to her in a needy, clingy, manipulative attempt to win her over.

 

This is all about protecting our hearts people!! And gaining some self-respect and respect from others.

 

 

Here's my opinion on relationships and break-up, there's no heartbreak there, just opportunity, the opportunity to move on. See, so many people waste time lamenting bad and mismatched relationships (improper relationships for them) and crying and being heartbroken over someone who wasn't right for them - at least at that time or in that place (either where they were or you were in your life/lives). The fact is sometime that person just wasn't your Mr. or Ms. Right - and sometimes did where completely Mr. or Ms. Wrong, but that's a good thing to know/learn. The opportunity is as soon as you find a relationship is not going to work - at least at that time - you can proceed, progress towards finding one that does, to finding your Mr. or Ms. Right and if that person is/was in time fate, love, karma, the greater forces at work in the world will bring you back together. There's no such a thing as heartbreak in relationship - only and opportunity to find someone better, upgrade!!! There is no need to overly protect ones heat for life experiences may us better, stronger, even the bad ones if we take the opportunity gain knowledge about ourselves, others, and life from them to make better, smarter, decisions, choices next time. And to all I say this, 'Live life to love, without condition, freely, with few or without inhibitions, leaving all hang-ups and baggage at the door. Come with your heart and nothing more, and when you find, that love (person) worthy (that worthwhile love), give all the love within you, but remember love is a share thing, So, expect it to be returned to you, and if it is not, then, just let it go, because it is not at all worthy, giving love to one, who does not love you!!!' Well, that's what I have to say on the topic at this point, I'm out.

[IWalkAlone]

If a women is worried that you might not call her after sex...then IMO you are not in the NG category. Do you see yourself as that? Manipulative and clingy?

 

I don't see myself as a "nice guy" as the term is used here.

 

IMO, the term "nice guy" is really the wrong term. In my observation, if you define "nice" as considerate and the opposite of "mean" or "rude," then there are plenty of nice guys who are successful with women.

 

Of course, there are plenty of mean and rude guys who are also popular with women, so whether or not a guy is nice (as define it) is actually not a predictor of whether or not women will like him.

 

Among the qualities women DON'T respond to is insecurity and poor social skills, when combined with a lack of masculinity (poor social skills WITH masculinity is OK). So when shy, insecure guys who don't appeal to women see confident (or pseudo-confident) jerks with girlfriends, they say "See! Women prefer jerks over nice guys!" But "nice" is not really the issue.

 

Manipulative and clingy? Manipulative maybe. But isn't most of the advice in this forum on how to manipulate? What is "game" other than manipulation?

 

Clingy? I don't think so. I know not to call all the time, how to give space. I think gifts & flowers are OK, but they should be unpredictable. If you gove these things every time you see here, that's predictable, boring and too clingy.

[DanielMadr]

You cant give a flower, gift or pay for dinner without any girl thinking you are trying to "buy" something...at lbefore you have sex in relationship.

 

Problem with being nice (not necessarily clingy or needy) is that lot of women love to have their azzes grabbed and **** groped. So when you are nice and smooth it indicates you will not be able to give her "rough" sex AKA boring person

[luvtoto]

So, expect it to be returned to you, and if it is not, then, just let it go, because it is not at all worthy, giving love to one, who does not love you!!!'

Just let it go? This seems overly simplistic advice to me.

 

Rglove, have you ever had your heart broken into a million and one pieces before by someone who apparently loved you??

 

I have. I wil never love freely again. I will forever have my guard up and look for the signs. That is called, "loving smart".

 

'Live life to love, without condition, freely, with few or without inhibitions, leaving all hang-ups and baggage at the door. Come with your heart and nothing more, and when you find, that love (person) worthy (that worthwhile love), give all the love within you, but remember love is a share thing,

...is a recipe for disaster in my book.

 

But, hey....to each his own.

[luvtoto]

I don't see myself as a "nice guy" as the term is used here.

 

IMO, the term "nice guy" is really the wrong term. In my observation, if you define "nice" as considerate and the opposite of "mean" or "rude," then there are plenty of nice guys who are successful with women.

Yes, I know.

 

Of course, there are plenty of mean and rude guys who are also popular with women, so whether or not a guy is nice (as define it) is actually not a predictor of whether or not women will like him.

Yes, I know.

 

Among the qualities women DON'T respond to is insecurity and poor social skills, when combined with a lack of masculinity (poor social skills WITH masculinity is OK). So when shy, insecure guys who don't appeal to women see confident (or pseudo-confident) jerks with girlfriends, they say "See! Women prefer jerks over nice guys!" But "nice" is not really the issue.

My last NG (needy guy) was not shy at all. He used to be a bartender for 20 years. Very outgoing. He's had women swoon over him before. He was masculine, manly guy that fixed cars and handyman type. He was a nice guy, in your terms.

 

However, he sucked up to me constantly. Manipulated me into liking him by accessively kissing and hugging...and showing all his freakin' affection to me. Calling all the time. Wanted to spend every waking moment with me. UGH!! Even AFTER, I requested him to tone things down many times.

 

Manipulative and clingy? Manipulative maybe. But isn't most of the advice in this forum on how to manipulate? What is "game" other than manipulation?

I can only explain my point of view so many times..........

 

Clingy? I don't think so. I know not to call all the time, how to give space. I think gifts & flowers are OK, but they should be unpredictable. If you gove these things every time you see here, that's predictable, boring and too clingy.

I guess you can't judge your own clinginess, can you? Have any women had clinginess issues with you in the past?

[Art_Critic]

Manipulated me into liking him by accessively kissing and hugging...and showing all his freakin' affection to me.

 

So you are saying that because he did these things you liked him ?