I have had ENOUGH!

[blind_otter]

IMO, even when you have a diagnoseable mental illness - the label is NOT a crutch to explain your continued self destructive behavior.

 

It is a reason to persue treatment so that you can become healthy. THat is the responsibility of all people who have "issues".

[pricillia]

IMO, even when you have a diagnoseable mental illness - the label is NOT a crutch to explain your continued self destructive behavior.

 

It is a reason to persue treatment so that you can become healthy. THat is the responsibility of all people who have "issues".

 

 

agreed:)....................

[pricillia]

You missed my point, but I won't argue this. Eating disoders are not a social issue. They existed before there was an aesthetic demand for thinness.

 

If you're interested in more information just lookup the treatment protocols for eating disoders. You can also PM me if you'd like a more in-depth explanation as to why these state disorders are not social issues.

 

 

Not so sure about that...

 

Eating disorders arise from a variety of physical, emotional, social and family issues

[Guest]

even when you have a diagnoseable mental illness - the label is NOT a crutch to explain your continued self destructive behavior

 

Grand theory, that. However first you need to remove the social stigma from mental illness that scares people away from any sort of diagnosis of same. Better to be considered weak-willed and a slob than to acknowledge there might be illness at play, no?

 

Secondly, part of being an addict of any sort is the denial about the addiction, right? There still aren't very good treatments for the biochemical aspects of any addiction. The encouraging news is that it looks like some are not far away - but until then anyone who is actually suffering from some sort of mental issues around eating have a lot of cards stacked against them - first and foremost the societal attitude as expressed by the OP - that obesity is neither preventable nor curable except by effort of will.

 

It's clear that berating people doesn't help one bit. Therefore to continue that same old, tired, and useless strategy is foolish. Try something new - make it known that eating can be an addiction, a psychological issue - something that isn't just about being a lazy stupid idiot - because if you feel that the world considers you a lazy stupid, idiot, you have little motivation to fix or change it. Rather, it will dump you into a depression - which you will try to heal by self-comfort. With food.

 

If the OP were to devote equal time and passion to removing the stigma that still surrounds illnesses like depression, perhaps people would be less reluctant to seek help for their issues. Since the OP is a journalist, she could help out with this issue a great deal.

[amaysngrace]

Morgan Spurlock!

 

 

 

 

Oops! I thought you were saying something to me in Australian but then it dawned on me. Yeah, it wasn't Michael Moore at all. It was probably this guy!

[pricillia]

In a recent government study, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimated that obesity is fast approaching tobacco as the top underlying preventable cause of death in the USA.

 

 

Google this and it will bring up the article as I can't post it here

 

But I think PA is right about it being an epidemic

 

AC

 

I am not disputing the OP's opinion that there is an issue with people being overweight..I agree the point is what are we doing to facilitate change

 

 

Sometimes it seems as if we take a stance of what we are going through personally, if one is overweight then all we know is that people make fun of you because you are overweight, if one is too skinny then people make fun of you because you are too skinny....

 

When someone takes a stance often it is often about them and what happens to them and not what is really going on, they use it as a way to make a point, but do nothing about making a diffenence.

 

I am not speaking of anyone person in general just things that I have observed while I sit back and watch and listen.

[lindya]

Obviously the lardy ladies were in serious denial. Nobody accused of being in denial will admit to denial. Because that wouldn't be denial any longer haha.

 

They were certainly in denial. Not about being fat, but about the amount of food that hurtled down their throats each day. People often seem to lie to themselves about their eating habits. Example: One of my best friends has always been extremely thin. It's natural skinniness, and she's very small boned - but she always insists that she eats "like a pig".

 

I remember one time we were on holiday together, and for fear of looking greedy I stuck to eating the same amount of food that she did. I even found myself leaving the same amount on the plate because I didn't want to feel like some plate-scraping hog while she, with feminine delicacy, left most of her food.

 

A couple of times during that holiday I sidled off on my own to buy some biscuits, but by and large I stuck to her eating pattern. When I got home, I'd lost about 4 pounds while she complained about having put on weight.

 

I'm sure in the utterly hellish scenario of my going on holiday with my fat ex-colleagues and matching them bite for bite, I'd come back about 10 pounds heavier.

 

Just as people stop noticing the sound of a constantly ticking clock after a while, I think the act of eating is something a fat person often loses awareness of. I can think of times that I've watched an overweight person eating way more than their fair share of sandwiches and cakes at some social event and inwardly ranted about their greed and selfishness....but I think often they really don't even notice that they're eating.

[norajane]

It is completely socially acceptable to berate smokers (I am not saying it is right or wrong- just saying that it is acceptable conversation).

 

We have no smoking signs everywhere, which are in fact used in many cases to shame smokers and end the rise of diseases caused by nicotine addiction.

 

So if I were to apply the same logic

 

“HEY YOU FAT F*CK- put down the cheeseburger, and go for a walk… if you can’t yet- start clapping your hands. You are not only increasing your personal risk of dying twenty years earlier, but you are making it an acceptable lifestyle behaviour for future generations."

 

~

 

In fact, the pursuit of good journalism is to educate and inform ,to increase awareness, and the pursuit of a better life for future generations.

 

The logic doesn't work with smokers and it won't work with fat either. If you wish to encourage people to modify their behavior in a way that will be of benefit to them, insulting them is the wrong way to go about it. They've been made fun of and insulted their whole lives; that's nothing new. In fact, berating them is more likley to make them feel even worse about themselves than they already do, which could perhaps lead to more emotional eating. Primarily, you will just make them resent you for being an inconsiderate, insulting, ass - which will make them far less likely to take your "advice".

 

If you truly wish to help people help themselves, perhaps a more positive approach would be more effective. When you see a fat person huffing and puffing at the gym, instead of sneering at their yards of blubber, you could smile and say hello and make them feel welcome to be there. When you pass a fattie by as you're jogging, perhaps you could say hello and say, "Great day for a run, isn't it?" You might offer to keep them company as they run, for a bit, and get to know one of these disgustingly obese monsters as a human being.

 

Or perhaps, as a journalist, you could spend some time on your programs talking about the varying merits of different exercise programs and do a consumer comparison on fitness machines. Perhaps you might invite nutritionists onto your program to help people understand what's in low-fat foods and why they're aren't helpful. Perhaps you could invite former-fat people onto your program and allow them to share their success stories with your audience. Perhaps you might do an expose on how diet programs and fitness centers rip people off and contribute to obesity via unrealistic diet plans designed to lighten their wallets.

 

Perhaps you could change your attitude of loathing into one of compassion in order to truly help people instead of just tellling them to get off their fat asses.

 

[blind_otter]

Let me preface this with: God I hate it when people are too scared to post under their real username.

 

Grand theory, that. However first you need to remove the social stigma from mental illness that scares people away from any sort of diagnosis of same.

 

Social stigma should not play a part in anyone's decision making process about their health and well being. It's not better to be a slob that is weak willed, IMO. AFAIK it's actually worse because if you are "ill" you "have an excuse". So I'm not sure where you were going with this.

 

The organizers of the civil rights movement didn't wait for social stigma to be removed. I'mjustsaying.

 

Secondly, part of being an addict of any sort is the denial about the addiction, right?

 

Not really. It's more denial that the drug or substance is destroying their life. Lots of alcoholics joke about being alcoholic for years before they admit that their alcoholism is the cause of their life ebbing away. The denial mechanism is a way to project other causes onto their problems.

 

There still aren't very good treatments for the biochemical aspects of any addiction. The encouraging news is that it looks like some are not far away - but until then anyone who is actually suffering from some sort of mental issues around eating have a lot of cards stacked against them - first and foremost the societal attitude as expressed by the OP - that obesity is neither preventable nor curable except by effort of will.

 

A pill to cure addiction? Do you realize how ridiculous that concept is? There's no way in hell they would ever consider such a thing. THe addict would become addicted to the pill they take to not be addicted. It's the nature of the best. That's why cognitive behavior modification has always been the methodology of choice with addiction issues. You learn to control your mind, rather than allowing the mind to control you.

 

And the former is a much more real and satisfying way to live, than the latter. In anyone's life. Addict or not. That is the founding principle of buddhist psychology, which has been around for about 2500 years, fyi. Lots of case studies.

 

It's clear that berating people doesn't help one bit. Therefore to continue that same old, tired, and useless strategy is foolish.

 

bunk. if it didn't work we wouldn't keep using it. berating can be motivating. worked for me.

[lindya]

bunk. if it didn't work we wouldn't keep using it. berating can be motivating. worked for me.

 

Carrot and stick. Times I've been stuck in the depths, I've needed a combination of empathy from some sources + kick up the backside from others. Too much empathic understanding, and I'll just get hooked on talking about it without actually doing anything. Too much berating, and I'll find an escape route away from the critics, and carry on doing whatever it is I'm being berated about.

 

I don't suppose there's any magic formula of x parts empathy to y part berating; you just have to make a judgement call, when trying to help someone, about what it is they need and what they can cope with at that precise time.

[bluechocolate]

OK, now I'm as stuffed as a fat girls sock.

 

oops! Was that a terribly un-PC thing of me to say?

[lindya]

OK, now I'm as stuffed as a fat girls sock.

 

oops! Was that a terribly un-PC thing of me to say?

 

That depends on what the sock was last used for.

[Pink Amulet]

So, let's see... do you get as passionate about unprotected sex? Speeding? Motorcycling? Snake-handling? Drinking and driving?

 

I am passionate about many, many things- as are most people on LS.

 

Otherwise we wouldn't be sitting here postingabout various issues, day in day out.

 

This thread was just prompted by a timely connection between some flack I was getting for my stance on obesity in another thread, and some figures released to the news agency where I work.

 

Pricila-

When someone takes a stance often it is often about them and what happens to them and not what is really going on, they use it as a way to make a point, but do nothing about making a diffenence.

 

Often, but not always.

 

It's very cynical of you to assume a person can only be passionate about something which directly affects them.

 

This is a social issue, which will ultimately affect our children, and our childrens children.

 

Our average life span continues to extend, but researchers are now tellings us if we do not do something now... obesity will be killing us all 20 years earlier and we will be back to the average life span of the 1800's.

 

For example, I am glad to see the issue of climate change make it's way in the social commentary thanks tol Al Gore's recent shock tactic film, "Inconvenient Truth"- Whilst not affecting us Pricila, in this life time, we should still have strong feelings on the welfare of our planet, and the future of our children.

 

After all, if we don't who will?

 

Norajane-

The logic doesn't work with smokers and it won't work with fat either. If you wish to encourage people to modify their behavior in a way that will be of benefit to them, insulting them is the wrong way to go about it.

 

Although correctly disputed by B_O (it is a documented fact that levels of social acceptance bare much relevance on personal lifestyle habits.

 

The world average smoking figures dropped dramatically because company's, associations, campaigns, officials, public figures... began to tell us "SMOKING IS DANGEROUS- SMOKING WILL KILL US".

 

Although not everyone listened, MOST did.)

 

This however is not the point I am trying to make- I am just wondering why one thing (obesity) that is clearly killing us is socially accepted, for fear of embarassing, or humiliating while (smoking) is not nearly as such.

 

If you look in my original post I actually say "not that I agree or disagree with berating", as this was not my intended point.

 

Thanks for the post though.

[norajane]

This however is not the point I am trying to make- I am just wondering why one thing (obesity) that is clearly killing us is socially accepted, for fear of embarassing, or humiliating while (smoking) is not nearly as such.

 

I'm a little unclear on why you think being fat is socially acceptable. Just because we don't have "No Fatties" signs, doesn't mean it is accepted by society. In fact, I'll bet every single fat person you've ever seen has been harassed, ridiculed, teased, and taunted about their weight throughout their lives.

[ilmw]

I'm a little unclear on why you think being fat is socially acceptable. Just because we don't have "No Fatties" signs, doesn't mean it is accepted by society. In fact, I'll bet every single fat person you've ever seen has been harassed, ridiculed, teased, and taunted about their weight throughout their lives.

 

I agree with you on that.. but I think the difference here is... the average person probably would not walk up to a "Fat Person" and tell them to go away... but they might tell a smoker... "don't stand by me please" or "that stinks do you mind"... etc. I have seen people say to smokers.. hay that is bad for you... but never seen someone say to a "Fat Person" hay that burger is bad for you.... is that not kinda the point of this post??

[rainfall]

Being fat and overweight has become normal and acceptable to alot of people. At my job there are a few overweight people who are always snacking and eating something. Noone ever says anything to them about their eating habits or their size. I used to be somewhat overweight and have lost around 30 or so pounds and now I am told I am aneroxic, bulimec, and way too skinny. Whenever I eat something, which in my mind is enough food for me to be full I am told I am trying to starve myself or that I should eat more. I don't understand why it is socially acceptable to give a skinny person trouble all the time but you almost never hear someone tell and overweight person that they are eating to much or they must have compulsive eating disorder.

[norajane]

I agree with you on that.. but I think the difference here is... the average person probably would not walk up to a "Fat Person" and tell them to go away... but they might tell a smoker... "don't stand by me please" or "that stinks do you mind"... etc. I have seen people say to smokers.. hay that is bad for you... but never seen someone say to a "Fat Person" hay that burger is bad for you.... is that not kinda the point of this post??

 

I'm not really sure what the point was, except to vent against fat. Perhaps you're right, and that's what we're being asked. Perhaps the answer is because we still have a shred of decency, civility, and politeness left to decimate with our strident self-righteousness in telling others how they should behave for their own good.

 

Is this the type of society we should be turning into?

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=98468

[Guest]

It's not better to be a slob that is weak willed, IMO. AFAIK it's actually worse because if you are "ill" you "have an excuse".

 

Perhaps if you were actually considered 'ill'. The point is that an awful lot of people still think mental illness is not an illness but a fault of character.

Check out "On the Stigma of Mental Illness" by th Chicago Consortium for Stigma Research.

 

Point being, bad as it is to be a weak-willed slob, it's still better than having a mental illness.

 

The organizers of the civil rights movement didn't wait for social stigma to be removed.

 

So? This has what to do with obesity? The civil rights organizers didn't wait for social stigma to be removed because they were busy in trying to have social stigma removed. That was what they were after.

 

It's more denial that the drug or substance is destroying their life. Lots of alcoholics joke about being alcoholic for years before they admit that their alcoholism is the cause of their life ebbing away. The denial mechanism is a way to project other causes onto their problems.

 

Whatever. It's the recently-reformed who are most ardent about how others ought to reform RIGHT NOW. You'd think maybe they'd have empathy for how and why denial exists.

 

A pill to cure addiction?

 

Did somebody say 'a pill'? I didn't. I said 'TREATMENT'. Which could be anything - inserting electrodes into the brain, maybe. Maybe some form of meditation can alter the dopamine receptors to behave properly. Could be something else entirely.

 

That's why cognitive behavior modification has always been the methodology of choice with addiction issues. You learn to control your mind, rather than allowing the mind to control you.

 

And despite the successes of CBT, it cannot cure bipolar or schizophrenia, nor can it cure all addicts. And in fact while CBT does work for some depressed people, others are so ill that much more drastic measures are the only measures that work.

 

And the former is a much more real and satisfying way to live, than the latter. In anyone's life. Addict or not. That is the founding principle of buddhist psychology, which has been around for about 2500 years, fyi. Lots of case studies.

 

Gee. Then I guess no Chinese person need ever have turned to opium. Humans of every stripe have tried to get their jollies somehow. You've got Mexicans that drink the fermented goop of some cactus leaf that is masticated first by others - and part of the fun is puking first because the mix is toxic but it's the toxicity that gives you the jollies. Heck even animals and birds seek out fermented fruit. You can't talk every creature out of fighting a brain-engineered urge. Sometimes you just gotta fix the actual brain.

 

bunk. if it didn't work we wouldn't keep using it. berating can be motivating. worked for me.

 

Didn't know that all the people on the earth were created in your image.

[Pink Amulet]

I'm not really sure what the point was, except to vent against fat. Perhaps you're right, and that's what we're being asked. Perhaps the answer is because we still have a shred of decency, civility, and politeness left to decimate with our strident self-righteousness in telling others how they should behave for their own good.

 

All I can say is... do a little more reading and you will see that your "just let them be- they aren't harming anyone" attitude is a complete falicy.

 

My point was not to vent against "fat".

 

I am just venting against the defence put up to prevent hurt feelings whenever issues of this devestating problem come up... this has been our down fall.

 

I have nothing against overweight, or obese individuals or the circumstances that got them where they are.

 

This is purely a social qaulm for me.

 

I am all for criminalising junk food, but we won't get in to that

 

Anyway... I have had my peace, and said what I had to say thanks for contributing everyone.

[a4a]

Hey I posted about this subject not long ago (obese people and the effect on society- $, insurance.....) and it got deleted.

 

Why because it hurt peoples feelings.... I guess it is indeed not PC to mention real facts or have an opinion on them?

 

Maybe obesity is already seen as a disease because you are not supposed to mention it. Maybe it needs to be seen as a disease that in most cases is purely the responsibilty of the eater to cure? Like alcoholism...... you rarely see anyone saying "oh he is just a drinker, it is sad but don't say anything ok"

 

It does go way way beyond looks....... it does indeed have an effect on other people. There was a lady at the grocery store on one of those scooters (I think all that was visible were the handlebars) with 2 kids pushing carts filled for her.... she barked orders to them as to which food items to put into the carts........ now does this woman have a reg job? Is she able to work? How often must she visit the dr. for her diabetes or heart problems, or other obesity related disease? Who is really paying for her eating habits? BTW the kids were stick thin.

[burning 4 revenge]

I can think of times that I've watched an overweight person eating way more than their fair share of sandwiches and cakes at some social event and inwardly ranted about their greed and selfishness....

 

that sounds insane

[lovelorcet]

Americans are always so touche about this issue. I grew up in the states and have lived in europe for many years now. When I go home to the states one of the first things that always shocks me is how many overweight people are walking around. I think there are a lot of people who think this is some how normal and it is not. I think that only a small amount of obesity is actually caused buy some type of physiological problem like hormone imbalance.

 

Mostly the problem is self-in-flicked (ie preventable) and the solution is to get your butt of the sofa, away from whatever screen you are looking at and move your body and stop eating so much crap.

 

I also have to say that I can not stand this mentality of being PC about this issue. Some people are so worried about preserving the self esteem of an individual that they reinforce the idea that it is ok to be fat. The truth is, loosing some weight would boost most people's self image way more that protecting them.

 

Don't get me wrong I would never intentionally try to hurt someone on this issue but I would also never blow sunshine up someone's ass.

 

The solution is very simple, to lose weight you eat less/better and move your body... And I think that is one reason why it is such a sensitive issue, the answer is staring you in the face.

[lindya]

that sounds insane

 

I don't care, do you hear me??? I've had enough, and I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANY MORE!!!!"

 

Mostly the problem is self-in-flicked (ie preventable) and the solution is to get your butt of the sofa, away from whatever screen you are looking at and move your body and stop eating so much crap.

 

I also have to say that I can not stand this mentality of being PC about this issue. Some people are so worried about preserving the self esteem of an individual that they reinforce the idea that it is ok to be fat. The truth is, loosing some weight would boost most people's self image way more that protecting them.

 

Don't get me wrong I would never intentionally try to hurt someone on this issue but I would also never blow sunshine up someone's ass.

 

Quite right. Neither would I. The term is "self inflicted" by the way - not "self-in-flicked".

[lovelorcet]

Quite right. Neither would I. The term is "self inflicted" by the way - not "self-in-flicked".

 

Opps! The damn checker has a mind of it's own

[a4a]

Don't get me wrong I would never intentionally try to hurt someone on this issue but I would also never blow sunshine up someone's ass.

 

.

 

 

hummmm..... is this possible?.... flashlight and leaf blower combined?