I have had ENOUGH!

[hotgurl]

When I look at some prized European art of many centuries ago, the women considered very beautiful in the paintings (by the greatest artists of time times) are obese...blubber just running down their sides. It's odd that way back then, when people didn't have all the processed foods and everybody cooked fresh stuff...they valued fat so highly and men put women who were big and plump in the supermodel category.

 

Can you imagine if they had had the Internet back then, along with the American Medical Society AND LoveShack.org? Those paintings wouldn't be selling for such much today...or they would be photoshopped in a major way....haha!

 

I don't know if anyone said this but back when thoose painting were done. Fat was considered in because 1. it indicated wealth and 2. fertility.

 

back then most people were staving except the upper class. Also dresses were made in a way that made the women almost look pregnant. and pale white was also "in" becaue all the lower class people had tans from working in the field.

 

this is my random knowledge for the day. back to

reading the mulit page thread.

[blind_otter]

Whatever.

 

My sentiments exactly.

 

Thanks for sharing your point of view. It was interesting, but not successful in swaying my opinion.

 

Next time try using your real account.

[hotgurl]

i was just saying we can't lump all overweight people into one category. not all are cases of overeating.

 

This is true but also a lot of people don't adjust thier eating habits according to thier age and end up inadvertanly over eating.

 

you can't eat at 20 what you ate at 12. or at 40 you can't eat the same thigns you did at 20. etc.. etc...

[stoopid_guy]

Hey I posted about this subject not long ago (obese people and the effect on society- $, insurance.....) and it got deleted.

 

Why because it hurt peoples feelings.... I guess it is indeed not PC to mention real facts or have an opinion on them?

Hmm... maybe someone should start a thread on the $$$-influence the unemployed have on society...

[bluechocolate]

Quite right. Neither would I. The term is "self inflicted" by the way - not "self-in-flicked".

Somehow "self-in-flicked" just sounds like so much more fun.

[lindya]

Somehow "self-in-flicked" just sounds like so much more fun.

 

I'm sure staff in the Accident and Emergency departments of many hospitals can testify that you're by no means alone in that view...

[pricillia]

QuotePINK

This thread was just prompted by a timely connection between some flack I was getting for my stance on obesity in another thread, and some figures released to the news agency where I work.

 

Pricila-

 

Quote:

When someone takes a stance often it is often about them and what happens to them and not what is really going on, they use it as a way to make a point, but do nothing about making a difference.

Often, but not always.

 

It's very cynical of you to assume a person can only be passionate about something which directly affects them.

 

This is a social issue, which will ultimately affect our children, and our childrens children.

 

 

Hi Pink... I know that you were upset about the other post and getting your point across and that was my point, It seemed like I was reading

all of your reply's and some of them were interesting... that is how I came to my conclusion that you quoted.

 

with that said, I would like to stick to the issue, no personal attacts, life if too short for that, and I know how easy it is to get frustrated, you are no doubt dealing with that in life...I have been there, but learned to take a step back and absorb.

 

You are smart and talented...but don't let it change you...we are all here for eachother!

[CrushedOrgans]

the point is that no one likes a criticizer, of any kind. and since you can't possibly know everything about someone, it's rude, unwise, and unnecessary to take someone else's personal, private business into your unwanted hands simply by observing and judging what they are eating within your sight boundaries.

[pricillia]

the point is that no one likes a criticizer, of any kind. and since you can't possibly know everything about someone, it's rude, unwise, and unnecessary to take someone else's personal, private business into your unwanted hands simply by observing and judging what they are eating within your sight boundaries.

 

 

thanks CO!

[norajane]

All I can say is... do a little more reading and you will see that your "just let them be- they aren't harming anyone" attitude is a complete falicy.

 

Hmm, I don't recall saying "just let them be". I did say that we ought to have some decency, courtesy, and civility when interacting with people, especally people we don't know and whose individual fat issues we don't understand. And in fact, I gave you some positive, constructive ways to help people get on the right track or encourage them to continue working at it. What I objected to was going up to complete strangers with the "get off your fat ass you fat f*ck" attitude and telling them to put down their cheeseburgers.

 

My point was not to vent against "fat".

 

I am just venting against the defence put up to prevent hurt feelings whenever issues of this devestating problem come up... this has been our down fall.

And my point is you don't have to hurt people's feelings in order to educate them or to help them. And that hurting people's feelings doesn't work with fat because they've already had their feelings hurt throughout their lives, every day, in a million ways and by a million different people. One more stranger harassing them isn't going to finally get them into a workout program or get them to stop wasting money on so-called diet programs.

 

I have nothing against overweight, or obese individuals or the circumstances that got them where they are.

Really? Cause by the things you've said in this thread, it sounds like you do.

[stoopid_guy]

Weight is something physically obvious, so when it's unusual in either direction it will invoke negative responses from the insecure.

 

The fact is though that very few of the qualities that really matter are visible from the outside.

[pricillia]

Nora,

 

You have made some really great points here in the post as you always do, you often see both sides.

 

I think that when people mature and get older sometimes they become more compassionate when they actually live through a hardship, now that is not to say that OP or anyone has not here.

 

But for the OP if someone does not agree with what you have said you should not dismiss the opinion or input becuase of it, it is just as valuable as yours.

 

But being overweight is nothing to laugh about or use as an example, not saying the OP did or did not.

[Yamaha]

I'm to tired to argue the merits of being thin so I think I will just have another bite of my double pounder WITH CHEESE, a fistful of my super size fries, a swig of my diet Coke and if I'm not to tired from the huge quantities of fat that will invariably cause me to go to sleep I will have a double scoop of chocolate fudge ice cream and call it a night.

 

P.S. I'm not taking sides. Just adding some humor to a weighty problem.

[CrushedOrgans]

Hmm, I don't recall saying "just let them be". I did say that we ought to have some decency, courtesy, and civility when interacting with people, especally people we don't know and whose individual fat issues we don't understand. And in fact, I gave you some positive, constructive ways to help people get on the right track or encourage them to continue working at it. What I objected to was going up to complete strangers with the "get off your fat ass you fat f*ck" attitude and telling them to put down their cheeseburgers.

 

And my point is you don't have to hurt people's feelings in order to educate them or to help them. And that hurting people's feelings doesn't work with fat because they've already had their feelings hurt throughout their lives, every day, in a million ways and by a million different people. One more stranger harassing them isn't going to finally get them into a workout program or get them to stop wasting money on so-called diet programs.

 

Really? Cause by the things you've said in this thread, it sounds like you do.

 

 

absolutely excellent. or excellently absolute.

 

[Pink Amulet]

lol, as I said I have made my point, and I am happy.

 

I actually had a flood of PM's from people congratulating me on my posts, and agreeing with many of my points whole heartedly.

 

(Too afraid of public condemnation for sharing their opinions.)

 

None of them accused me of hating overweight people, and understood my terminology in the broad context of the article.

 

I guess not everyone picked up on the "this is a social complexity" I was commenting on.

 

Anyway, I am done

[the_alchemyst]

This thread is quite interesting.

 

I think you made some really valid points, Pink. I agree that obesity is becoming a really dangerous problem in today's society. I'm not sure how things are where you live, but here in CA nearly 1 out of every 2 children are overweight. Uh, that's 50%--WAY too much to be healthy.

 

I think this problem is critical and one that needs to be properly addressed, yes abosolutely. However, I think one of the main reasons why people are not overly-eager to approach this subject is because of the emotional sentiment that is attached to it, which, imo, is understandable.

 

Yet while I generally agree with what you are saying, I think norajane also addressed a crucial point: while your intent might have been good, you certainly did come across as rude to some people.

 

I know I was put off by your words of choice.

[Pink Amulet]

They were for effect.

 

I haven't slept in days and days and days.

 

Give me a break.

[Guest]

You can always find people to agree with reasons to be unkind or hateful. It's kind of a sad commentary on humanity, actually. Post a post about how loathsome gay people are and surely you'll get a chorus of 'hoorahs'. Discuss how immigrants are (choose your negative characterization) and surely people will pile on in agreement.

 

Groupthink doesn't validate any line of thought.

[kjl933]

Pink, a history of your posts indicates that you indeed do have an aversion and revulsion to people that are overweight. Just take a look and you will see.

 

I am glad you have a cause and a crusade to follow and I am sure being the objective journalist (and I am still trying to figure out how one becomes a "journalist" at 20, but that is a different topic all together) you will not take offense if someone who is say crusading against premarital sex takes you to task with names and taunts of being a harlot. After all, premarital sex is a leading cause of AIDS, unwanted pregnancies, etc. It also puts tons of money into the coffers of the prescription companies as well.

 

I think one of the best posts here was AC's assesment that smoking causes direct harm to innocent people. Overeating does not. Unless they let out a particularly rank fart, but then again broccoli can do that as well. I think the harm that the overweight person does to society is merely your disdain for them. They indeed do do it to themselves and it harms no one other than themselves.

 

Drunk driving has an effect on others, speeding does, smoking does. Simply, overeating does not. It seems that the only effect it has is making your personal view of the world a little less pretty--in your eyes.

 

Besides, a Big Mac tastes good!

[hotgurl]

This thread is quite interesting.

 

I think you made some really valid points, Pink. I agree that obesity is becoming a really dangerous problem in today's society. I'm not sure how things are where you live, but here in CA nearly 1 out of every 2 children are overweight. Uh, that's 50%--WAY too much to be healthy.

 

I think childhood obesity is horrible. As a parent to allow your child to be overweight or obese is setting them up for a whole host of problems in the future. It's terrible.

[Heavenseventeen]

I've just started losing weight, and what you're saying is true.

 

The thing that cheeses me off is when overweight people get looked down upon whenever we eat junk food, yet when slim/underweight people eat it, it's fine. They're damaging their bodies too.

[norajane]

This thread is quite interesting.

 

I think you made some really valid points, Pink. I agree that obesity is becoming a really dangerous problem in today's society. I'm not sure how things are where you live, but here in CA nearly 1 out of every 2 children are overweight. Uh, that's 50%--WAY too much to be healthy.

 

I think this problem is critical and one that needs to be properly addressed, yes abosolutely. However, I think one of the main reasons why people are not overly-eager to approach this subject is because of the emotional sentiment that is attached to it, which, imo, is understandable.

 

I think that many do try to address the problem, but it's not as easy to address as "just say no" - like with smoking and alcohol and other addictions. People can't just stop eating in order to cure the food addictions. Preganancy weight, genetics, medical problems, emotional issues, and our society's approach to food and dieting all contribute to varying degrees. It's not necessarily sentimentality or a fear of offending people that is the a deterrent.

 

For example, parents can do a lot for their children by cooking healthy meals, having healthy snacks on hand, limiting computer, video game and TV time, and forcing their kids outside to play or get them into a sports or exercise class. However, they still have to contend with soft drinks and sugary juices and candy bars sold in the school, questionable school lunch programs offering burgers and pizza every day, and the 5 zillion other opportunities to eat their kids have between home and school.

 

With families with two working parents, or single parent homes, it becomes even more challenging for them to provide the healthy meals and oversight. Some parents are afraid to let their kids play outside unsupervised. Many parents can't afford to buy fresh fruits and vegetables and lean meats and fish and chicken for the whole family even if they have time to prepare the foods. Mac and cheese is a lot cheaper even though it holds very little nutritional value. In California for example, there are a lot of (legal) immigrants working for very little money in the agriculture industry - those ag towns may have one general store that doesn't offer produce, meats, and dairy at reasonable prices. They don't have cars and can't drive to a big supermarket to get cheaper food. They're trapped by their poverty and circumstances.

 

The weight loss industry is a billions of dollars industry in the US, and they constantly put out the wrong messages about diets and food. You have Anna Nicole Smith out there with her pills, and Kirstie Alley with her Jenny Craig, and the NutriSystems and Hydroxycuts and every other company that's making money off "do this and lose 30 pounds in 6 weeks!" It's a very seductive message. Even Oprah was on the yo-yo dieting kick for a while, gaining and losing and gaining, until she finally hired nutritionists and chefs to teach her and cook for her.

 

What we don't see very much of - because who can make money marketing it? - are examples of people who have taken a year to learn about nutrition, shop for healthy food and prepare it every day, all while taking up an exercise program in order to lose those same 30 pounds? Richard Simmons is one proponent of the "just get up and move" and eat healthy approach - never say diet is his mantra. That's how he lost weight and guess what? He isn't taken very seriously by the media because of his out-there personality. But at least he's getting attention. How many sexy nutritionists do you see out there on TV commercials or on Dateline promoting the value of good health? How many movie stars are shilling for broccoli?

 

It is a complex issue, and some are trying to do something. Clinton's deal to get Pepsi and Coke vending machines out of schools is one of those things that can make a difference. Changing school lunch programs would be another, but would society be willing to riase their taxes to pay for fresh veggies and omega-3 rich grilled salmon for their children? Will the FDA ever shut down those fake lose-weight pill companies? Will we spend the dollars necessary to teach people good nutrition?

 

[/rant]

[PuppyDogEyes]

First of all, I'd like to say that norajane has made some excellent points.

 

Many parents can't afford to buy fresh fruits and vegetables and lean meats and fish and chicken for the whole family even if they have time to prepare the foods. Mac and cheese is a lot cheaper even though it holds very little nutritional value.

 

I can and will vouch for this statement. My family was struggling for many years to get off of the welfare system (which they finally did in 1982). When you have very limited money to work with to feed your family, you will automatically purchase the lowest-cost items in order to keep food on the table. This doesn't necessarily mean that they're the most nutritious, or the most healthy. On the contrary, the cheapest items in supermarkets are chock-full of fat, sodium, calories and other lovely (not) things....you don't necessarily have to eat "fast food" all day long in order to gain weight.

 

If a family is struggling to feed their children, what do you think they're going to do? Pick the lettuce at 2.99 a head that might feed them one or two nights? Or pick the boxed macaroni and cheese crap for 33 cents a box that might feed them all for 11, 12 nights?

 

Now, one could reason, "All right, so the child's environment is such that they have to eat crap. What about getting up off of your 'lazy butt' and getting exercise?" Good point, so let's explore that. How about this: why are public schools cutting back on recess periods? Or even eliminating them altogether? Is this action promoting healthy living for children?

 

I'm not saying that everyone else should bear the blame for a (you'll pardon the expression) 'ballooning' population - far from it. There are lots of factors involved - parents' inability or unwillingness to set limits and/or control their kids' eating habits, schools cutting back budgets for physical education programs, television marketing of high-fat/sugary/salty foods (especially using such things as cartoon characters to appeal to children, something that I personally find appalling), the overwhelmingly (to me) high cost of fresh fruit and vegetables, we could go on and on with this. There's a lot of different reasons that contribute to the problem. I find it a good thing that they're beginning to eliminate soda and vending machines from schools - that's a start. But that's just it, a start and nothing more. I can tell you that in low-income areas (and this is from personal experience), the "free lunches" that they give the students are full of nothing but crap. I remember the endless pizza/french fries combination on the lunch menus very well. And I remember watching the news in the mornings where they would display the menus for wealthier counties, thinking to myself, "Now why don't we get choices like that? That's hardly fair."

 

So, yeah. Low income families certainly have something to complain about, I think. It costs to eat well, and a lot of people simply don't have it to spare. Not everyone is as fortunate.

 

[/my rant over]

 

- pde.

[hotgurl]

Richard Simmons is one proponent of the "just get up and move" and eat healthy approach - never say diet is his mantra. That's how he lost weight and guess what? [/rant]

 

Actaully he starved himself and ended up collapsing in the street and being hospitilaized. After his collapse he started eating healthy and exercising and going to therapy to deal with his emtional eating.

 

He had to have a ton of excess skin removed and his face was basically reconstructed.

[Buttaflyy]

I think today most people are aware of the dangers of obesity. The media does a great job of reporting it as everytime I turn on my television there's a 20/20 show about it, or the news is flashing someone's behind in their cameras telling everyone the rate of obesity in America. . Schools have taken steps to change the vending machines and lunch menus, and their are various programs designed to educate kids about healthy nutrition. Also, pretty much everyone has a gym membership these days (of course I don't mean everyone, but more people than what it used to be).

 

As for the comparison of smokers and overeaters, when someone is smoking, yes, you talk to them about the dangers in the hopes that they might quit, not only because they are harming themselves, but also those around them (you). But when it comes to obesity, what is really advised here? What can you do if someone chooses to do this to themselves without harm to you? Is it really our right to go around insulting folks? They are already aware that they are overweight, I'm sure.