I think my wife is cheating on me with a coworker

[Wiseman2]

Agree, she was probably more emotionally and physically involved than you would like to believe. It's doubtful you'll squeeze more out of this with humiliation and torture.

Nonetheless, you do have enough info to decide on repairing your marriage or divorcing.

Since you can't afford divorce right now, you may want to be guided by a licensed trained professional 

 

Edited November 12, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
civility

[usa1ah]

6 hours ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

Before we started yesterday I asked her if she is 100% sure she want this marriage. She was almost offended I suggested she doesn't. It took good 5 minutes to calm her enough we could have a civil conversation.

She's beem trully in a horrible state this past few days. Maybe we should have a week long pause before we get back to anything. Just to decompress. 

 

I still don't fully understand their weird dynamics but the fog is slowly clearing.

I would like to point out here that my W absolutely does not put all the blame for this on SH. Yes, he knows how to play these mind games but it does not mean that my W was not a willing participant. She had many opportunities to stop it. She didn't. She is responsible for this same as him. 

I think last night my wife saw first time for herself what kind of person SH really is. He hasn't contacted her since she sent that NC text, so He probably decided she's not worth the trouble. 

Up until today she thought what they had was some kind of "connection" or whatever, that they were each other's shoulders to cry on. Honest friends. Each other's support columns in this world. Yeah, no. 

I think the moment she saw through all this her ego got a direct hit. She feels ashamed and stupid. We will work on that later.

 

I also asked her a question today to which I dreaded the answer - if she had/has feelings for him. She thought there was something in the beginning, but definitely NOT love. Now she knows this was just plain stupid. 

 

She also admits she was attracted to him physically. I feel.. ok with that. Everybody finds other people attractive even when in commited relationship. I do too. The problem is when you start acting on it. And even bigger problem is when you act on it and you start convincing yourself it's all innocent and not hurting anyone. Like my wife did. 

 

But the truth is a lot more ugly. He was just saying the right things, pushing the right buttons like my wife was some kind of vending machine and if he has done all the right steps in the end she would break and give him what he wanted. Sex.

 

After last night I feel 99% sure he didn't get what he wanted. 

This is what happened during that session in his car. He started pushing (literally), she felt uncomfortable and left. She told me she had some kind of panic attack after that and swore she will never be alone with him and will never tell me because she was sure I would leave her. We still fight about this. 

We put our kids to bed together and before she left she asked me if I still love her. I told her I do, but it's just not the same. It's impossible to go back, that marriage is done and gone. 

 

I told her I want us to be honest to each other, so I informed her I have an Skype call with a lawyer on monday. She did not took that well but later told me she understands, we hugged and she left. She came back 5 minites later in tears and asked me for some pictures that are hanging in our house. She took some of them and left.

Genuine or some kind of manipulation? Not sure

I still love her. And I am a sucker. 

Not really a sucker. 
 

The times we are living in glorify this type of behavior in almost all or the films now a days. We see this type of behavior all the time. I think this is what got your wife caught up in this. Here is the difference, your wife stopped it before it went all the way. Yes she went to far to begin with, she should have told you that he was making advances on her. 
 

The other problem is this, why are you not her shoulder to lean on. You are supposed to be the person she wanted the OM to be. Does she not have girlfriends that she could talk with and lean on when need be? This is the biggest thing out of all of this sh’t shown that really stands out. Why in the hell was the OM supposed to be her rock?

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

1 hour ago, Crazelnut said:

Mr. Fibble, I think your WW is definitely downplaying what happened in their makeout sessions. I know what you think about a polygraph, but I think you should TELL her you're going to do a polygraph and see what new confessions that might bring out.

Don't know, this sound like playing mind games and manipulation using her guilt as a tool. I would prefere not going down that path.

 

@Pottering About I dont think she loves him. But I agree she still doesn't understand or acknowledges the gravity of situation. All those feelings you talk about see still there, I can't simpl turn off ale feelings toward my wife. I still love her. 

1 hour ago, Crazelnut said:

Mr. Fibble, I think your WW is definitely downplaying what happened in their makeout sessions. 

I think that too unfortunately.

 

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

Agree, she was probably more emotionally and physically involved than you would like to believe. It's doubtful you'll squeeze more out of this with humiliation and torture.

Nonetheless, you do have enough info to decide on repairing your marriage or divorcing.

Since you can't afford divorce right now, you may want to be guided by a licensed trained professional rather than angry people who themselves were betrayed... but no success stories there.

 

Again, what humiliation and torture? I feel like we are hoing in circles now. And I never said we can't afford a divorce. That's complete nonsense. 

[Negotaurus]

I do not think she is giving you the full truth. 

[LynneVicious]

I agree with the polygraph. If you feel she is downplaying and you still have doubts about the extent of the affair, the mere threat of an impending polygraph brings about many a ‘parking lot confessions’. Look at it more as a tool. You schedule the polygraph, tell her the date and time, bring her there and hopefully get all the remaining answers you seek in the parking lot. 
 

That way, you have the full truth so you can decide how you want to proceed. If she passes the poly, you’ll have full knowledge about the affair and can make an informed decision. 
 

I know you are Adamantly opposed to the poly, and you say you either trust her or you don’t, but right now you are in limbo, and the poly, or even the threat of an impending poly, could clear that up.  
 

Many betrayed spouses is in this situation think their ww or wh is ‘different’ - we are programmed to believe and trust them through our marriage, but the truth is, 99% of wandering spouses follow the same script... lie, lie, lie, more lies, trickle truth, downplaying, more lies.  If there is reconciliation, many don’t know the extent of the affair to this day. All cheaters lie, whether you want to believe that your ww is ‘different’ or not. 

[elaine567]

We can surmise and assume and pontificate and project our own experiences onto the situation, but NONE of us know what really went on here.
Stating conjecture and guess work as fact is not I guess helping anyone.

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

1 hour ago, Negotaurus said:

I do not think she is giving you the full truth. 

She's probably not. I realize that. But's really hard to accept she would willingly destroy our famil for.. for what exactly? Few moments of thrill? Compliment from somebody else because compliments from me are not that exciting after the years? I'm angry now again. Should probably hit gym and get it all out but they are closed too. FML

 

@LynneVicious I know you all tell me to go through the polygraph, but I don't want to do anything that goes against my beliefs. Now it's uo to her to find a way to prove if what she told me is truth. Well, maybe if she will come up with polygraph I would be OK with it. Maybe. Maybe not. And the last paragraph is so true. I still after all this believe my wife is not like all these other horrible cheaters I read about  . She is different. She would never. Look where this got me.

 

My wife will be here in ten minutes so see you all then..

 

 

[WilyWill]

My fear, Mr. Flibble, is that you'll spend the rest of your life wondering what really happened between your wife and her boyfriend. Ten years from now you might be hit with a wave of distrust and feel angry at yourself for not getting the truth now. At least put the ball in her court, and ask her how she intends to prove to you that she didn't have sex with him. Remind her that she's been lying for months, which makes her task all the more difficult. 

Edited November 12, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Removed reference to deleted comment.

[DKT3]

I'm sure it was not her intention to ruin the marriage,  she was most like not thinking in those terms. She was most likely not giving it any thought which is common. Whenever a thought would creep in she likely pushed it away with "im not doing anything that bad" if she actually had not had sex, which is not likely.  Or "im careful,.we won't get caught ". There is even a possibility that she did think it would ruin the marriage but she was so sucked in it didn't matter. 

Here is the reality of the situation.  You will never really know, she will most likely never share her true thoughts and feelings.  If you intend to carry on in the marriage its something that you will have to learn to accept. 

Having seen this movie many times, there is a really good chance your wife had alot of sexual contact with this guy, you might be best served to move forward with this as your baseline. Over time small details will come out. The one make out session will.turn to two, then to something else. She will then proclaim thats all, you know everything.  Until the next small detail that leads to the next big discovery. 

Its a long road,  buckle up and avoid accepting answers that don't add up but brings you comfort. The worst thing that can happen going forward is healing on the surface  while the wound is infected underneath.  

[pepperbird2]

On 11/8/2020 at 8:12 PM, lana-banana said:

Don't get me wrong, this is clearly crossing boundaries and it has to be stopped. It could be they're on the verge of an emotional affair. But it's also plausible that he has a crush and she's just eating up the attention or leading him on---again, it's wrong and it has to end, but it isn't necessarily an affair, and it's something they can heal from if they both work together with full honesty about the situation.

The most important part to healing (whether it's cheating, an addiction, whatever) is understanding what triggered the behavior. If it turns out your wife is a serial liar and philanderer who depends on lots of male attention to live, your relationship probably can't be saved. But if she was mostly feeling lonely and unfulfilled at home and suddenly found herself showered with admiration from a younger coworker who didn't require any hard conversations about bills and kids, and she wants to work on her marriage, it's salvageable.

If she's bored, if she's unfulfilled, if she needs more mental stimulation, she can say so.

personally, I'm calling bull on the idea that her behaviour is a function of her husband' It's a function of her. She has poor boundaries and is showing she can't be trusted. She was willing to put her kids at risk just so she can get some ego strokes?

[elaine567]

13 minutes ago, pepperbird2 said:

If she's bored, if she's unfulfilled, if she needs more mental stimulation, she can say so

Who says she didn't?

[Pottering About]

As I am new here, I spent quite a bit of time reading through a lot of peoples’ posts and saw there was a recurring theme when women return to the workplace. I have had some experience of this and jotted down some ramblings In the Infidelity forum under Workplace Relationships.

These thoughts were based on meetings with women in my HR role and a) I don’t know if you have read the post or b) whether you agree with the content but it might help to explain why she let herself get into the situation she now finds herself in.

I really want to emphasise that the post is not aimed at or about you, just a response to what I have seen in many cases on this forum. Also, it is not blame shifting on to you and does not seek to denigrate your hurt and feelings. Whilst you are going to feel anger for a long time (and I would be really p*ssed about things in your shoes), it may offer food for thought on moving forward.

There is no excuse for what she did but a little empathy and understanding from yourself may actually make her feel assured enough to fully open up to you. She is scared that you are going to divorce her and this is going to influence what she thinks it is you want to hear.

I do not know either of you but I think your posts show she regrets terribly what she did and wants to stay married to you. I hope neither of us are that jaded and cynical to believe she is using you as a plan B or gaslighting you. Also, I do not think that she has got way scot free and continues to suffer emotionally.

Finally, what do you really need to make this work? An acknowledgment on her part of the depth of the affair is key but, beyond that? Other posters have regretted being told absolutely everything as it only added to the hurt when the affair was already disclosed. Your posts indicate a high degree of contrition on her part and, once the hurt and anger subside a little, is that going to be enough?

No judgement here but are you using the threat of divorce as a revenge mechanism to hurt her as badly as she has hurt you? You sound like a good man with admirable principles and she has been a good wife/mother in the past.

I really hope that both of you come through this.  

Edited November 12, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Added paragraphs

[Ruby Slippers]

15 minutes ago, Pottering About said:

No judgement here but are you using the threat of divorce as a revenge mechanism to hurt her as badly as she has hurt you? 

I don't see it that way. Divorce naturally came to his mind when he realized she might be cheating. It's totally reasonable to put that option on the table when your wife is at the very least making out with some other guy. In my opinion, one would have to be an idiot not to.

She has compromised their relationship and his trust to the point that it will NEVER be the same again. They may be able to get through this and stay married - but because of her, a degree of purity in the marriage is gone forever.

[Narie]

21 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Of course. 

However, I don't think that's what happened here, in this case, with your wife.  I think she allowed it continue because the crush is mutual, not because he's a master manipulator. I don't buy that for a second. 

She was a volunteer participant. Not a hapless victim of manipulation. 

 

Agree. They only knew each other for a while and she already gave it. As what OP said, she was almost about to leave that job but ever since he came in the picture she suddenly don't want to.

 

She wanted him. And he knew it. He noticed. That's why it didn't take long for them to kiss which she obviously liked, otherwise she will show remorse and stop after that kiss.

[lana-banana]

Whatever happened, do not involve a polygraph. They are not reliable and they are not useful for anything by themselves, and they add stress to what are already insanely stressful situations.

I wish you both the best. This is a horrible situation, but as these boards have shown many marriages survive much worse. It takes two people who are both willing to do the hard work and commit to a future together. If you aren't able to reach that, it doesn't make you a failure; you aren't to blame for your wife's behavior. The most important thing is being there for the kids and demonstrating you can be civil for their sake.

[DKT3]

12 minutes ago, lana-banana said:

Whatever happened, do not involve a polygraph. They are not reliable and they are not useful for anything by themselves, and they add stress to what are already insanely stressful situations.

I wish you both the best. This is a horrible situation, but as these boards have shown many marriages survive much worse. It takes two people who are both willing to do the hard work and commit to a future together. If you aren't able to reach that, it doesn't make you a failure; you aren't to blame for your wife's behavior. The most important thing is being there for the kids and demonstrating you can be civil for their sake.

You are correct that polygraphs are not reliable,  however they are very useful.  

I always find it amazing when people comment to a betrayed spouse and say suggest that they look out for the wayward spouses above themselves.  

I know you didn't say it directly,  but saying he should just accept her word so its not stressful is a round bout way of saying it.

Cheater need to control information,  if they are too comfortable they will only give up what cant be denied. Facing a polygraph, almost always will force more information out in an attempt to control information.  I have seen people facing polygraphs admit to all kinds of stuff.  Its also almost always only the tip of the iceberg. 

[elaine567]

The polygraph in itself is not reliable but it is often used as a manipulation technique designed to scare the truth out of them...
Car park confessions...

[mark clemson]

5 hours ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

Again, what humiliation and torture? I feel like we are hoing in circles now. And I never said we can't afford a divorce. That's complete nonsense

 

I suspect @Wiseman2 thinks you are likely to be convinced to go down the path of lie detector tests, excessively controlling behavior etc, that some above seem to be implying is best, rather than simply divorcing. So, he is getting ahead of himself, as you have indicated you feel that:

Quote

Don't know, this sound like playing mind games and manipulation using her guilt as a tool. I would prefer not going down that path.

 

I'm not going to critique specific techniques/suggestions, as each couple/situation is a bit different. I WILL suggest you continue to sanity-check any/all suggestions made as well as confirming they align to your personal morals and views before taking action. That applies to my advice as well. You seem to being a good job with that IMO. There IS lots of good advice here, but possibly some had a WS who was a VERY different person from whom your wife is.

I do think some folks may have an agenda, perhaps unconsciously in some cases, that's less about helping you and more about punishing your wife as much as they can convince you to agree to. Presumably that has a lot to do with (significant) emotional wounds they suffered in the past or some (rather extreme from some perspectives) moral convictions that you might not hold. A few may simply enjoy manipulating you into hurting your wife and/or kids.

Edited November 12, 2020 by mark clemson

[lana-banana]

27 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

The polygraph in itself is not reliable but it is often used as a manipulation technique designed to scare the truth out of them...
Car park confessions...

Polygraphs are only as useful as the polygrapher. The actual test itself is garbage; what matters is how the polygrapher gets information from the subject. An effective polygrapher is more like an insidious therapist than a detective. Unfortunately, many polygraphers have absolutely zero training in interrogation and investigative techniques, and for that reason alone I would never recommend someone do it. If your wife won't willingly give you the full truth then you have nothing worth saving, and the marriage will collapse on its own. If you feel you can't trust her again, that's for you to deal with in whatever way you choose. Adding a polygraph won't help anything

[Wiseman2]

8 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

 

I suspect @Wiseman2 thinks you are likely to be convinced to go down the path of lie detector tests, excessively controlling behavior etc, that some above seem to be implying is best, rather than simply divorcing. So, he is getting ahead of himself, as you have indicated you feel that:

I do think some folks may have an agenda, perhaps unconsciously in some cases, that's less about helping you and more about punishing your wife as much as they can convince you to agree to. Presumably that has a lot to do with (significant) emotional wounds they suffered in the past or some (rather extreme from some perspectives) moral convictions that you might not hold. A few may simply enjoy manipulating you into hurting your wife and/or kids.

Yes, that's is what I meant. Not that the OP is not hurt confused, angry, justifiably, but that some techniques do not  seem to be those of a man who keeps stating he loves his wife and hopes  to work things out.

I agree however that while she admitted to some things the 'whole truth' may never be learned as it often isn't. It's fair to say she stepped way out of bounds outside the marriage. And this is not something to simply forgive/forget or brush under the rug.

I do hope it works out and whatever she admitted to can be worked out through marriage therapists, who are trained to deal with issues better. Things will be up and down and all over the place when your foundation is shaken like this. You start to wonder what was ever real and what wasn't.

[Zona]

Ask any BS that has been through this. Probably 99% will agree on this one thing: cheaters lie, and they lie a lot. They minimize what they did and often times try to blame shift and gaslight.

You wife is now a proven liar and cheater. Don't be too quick to believe anything she says at this point.

Just as a heads up of something that will likely invade your thoughts at some point. If you hadn't caught this fairly early on, it would have escalated and ramped up with more feelings involved and more sex. It haunts a lot of us who reconciled (or are trying to) to ponder if our WW would have left for AP at some point if the affair didn't end. If things worked out with OM, would we be at best plan B?

[Harry Korsnes]

6 minutes ago, Zona said:

Ask any BS that has been through this. Probably 99% will agree on this one thing: cheaters lie, and they lie a lot. They minimize what they did and often times try to blame shift and gaslight.

You wife is now a proven liar and cheater. Don't be too quick to believe anything she says at this point.

Just as a heads up of something that will likely invade your thoughts at some point. If you hadn't caught this fairly early on, it would have escalated and ramped up with more feelings involved and more sex. It haunts a lot of us who reconciled (or are trying to) to ponder if our WW would have left for AP at some point if the affair didn't end. If things worked out with OM, would we be at best plan B?

In a the ws's do it bc of the thrill bc theyre lives become ruteene and expect theyre s's to be there on the falback. They dont even the concequenses until the tihs hits the fan.

Thats to late!! 

[S2B]

So

you have ample evidence that shows your wife has huge issues with her boundaries and trust. What exactly is SHE doing to work on those issues? She liked the go feed so what is she doing to get her ego in check?
 

glad she quit the job! What will she do to earn trust when she starts the next job? 
 

... SHE seriously needs to work on HER boundaries (lack of) - when you keep saying WE will work on that... it is HER work to do - not YOURS. 
 

you are a little TOO codependent. Read codependent no more.

let HER do the work.

why are you seeing her so often? That’s not necessary - you need to clear your mind.

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

Again, thank you all. I didn't expect so many people to spend their time helping an internet stranger. It's amazing. You are amazing. Thank you

 

Small update..

 

This was was the hardest day so far because reality set in for good. This is real. This is my life now. I thought this will be better than that limbo we were before, but now I am not so sure. 

 

We talked a lot this evening, about our feelings and thoughts mostly. I am still not sure how to continue, I know it's still too early for any kind of resolution but sometimes I feel like running away and leaving it all behind. If there were no children involved that's what I would probably do. I would just leave and left this nightmare behind.

 

So, facts:

My wife did put her notice at work this morning. She has some vacation days left since we cancelled our vacation this summer due to Covid but still has to work for at least another 6 weeks. She is free as of 1st of January. New year, new start I guess.

 

She asked me if She should report the affair to HR. At the moment I don't see any benefit. If she denied everything and I found out any other way I would be the one reporting it and going after them both.

 

And I'm not even sure what would go down if it was reported. Nothing perhaps, he's not her boss. They are peers. And there is no proof they did anything inappropriate during work hours. He could easily deny any wrongdoings.

 

One interesting fact came up today regarding her job. Their "relationship" was apparently a public secret at her workplace. Or more like on their team (7 people). She said people knew they are very "friendly", made comments, but didn't know about the affair. I reckon They were not that low key as they thought they were. Wonder now if her boss knew.

 

Fortunately they finished their joint project last month and now basicaly just coexist on a team without much direct contact.

Looks like they are keeping NC, at least for now. WFH is tremendous help in this. Apparently they used to spend a lot of time chatting at work either in person or through IM. W told me they kept it very clean as this chanell is monitored. Another news for me. I feel like it's getting worse every time we speak. And I know It's expected and It's probably a right thing meaning she's not trying to cover her track and is being honest.. but hell, it hurts.

 

We also spoke about her feelings toward him. She denies she fell in love him or had any deeper feelings. He made her feel appreciated (professionaly, not personaly) and later as it progressed she felt desired (She even gave me that damned "you do that to, but with him it was different" line).

We spoke sbout our marriage, what problems we had between us that the other didn't know or didn't realise. And we also spoken about problems the other was too stubborn or afraid of rocking the boat to tell. I told her I have 50% responsibility for our marriage but her affair is her doing. She told me She knows this but I disagreed and told her I feel like she's really still not taking the full blame as she should.

 

This ended in long fight just jumping all over the place without going anywhere. I am not proud but I then unloaded on her all my frustrations from last 3 days and wasn't overall very pleasant. She took it and let me vent without much objection besides when I accused her of sleeping with him from the start. 

Then we talked about my feelings and thoughts. I think she finally starts to realize the depth of what she did to our marriage and it's obvious it's crushing her more and more. 

 

We were both completely exhausted after the fight so we called it quits for now. She told me at the end that it's horrible what she's putting us through but she will never stop fighting and asked me to do the same. I told her I just don't know if I have it in me anymore. But today was a really bad day so I don't want to let that cloud my mind.

 

She asked me if she could sleep here tonight, so she's now asleep in kid's room and I am staying in our bed writing this on my phone.

 

One day at a time. 

 

 

Yeah, and after today I am now certain she browses some infidelity websites because it's like she's going by the book one line after another. 

She's offering a timeline (reminded her I already have one but would love if she could complete it), reporting her affair to HR and she even spoke about therapy for herself. 

Not sure how I feel about that. 

Mr. Flibbles out. 

[salparadise]

7 hours ago, LynneVicious said:

Many betrayed spouses is in this situation think their ww or wh is ‘different’ - we are programmed to believe and trust them through our marriage, but the truth is, 99% of wandering spouses follow the same script... lie, lie, lie, more lies, trickle truth, downplaying, more lies.  If there is reconciliation, many don’t know the extent of the affair to this day.

Yes, I think this is accurate. Aside from knowing, as long as she is covering up what she knows and that you don't know it's it will inevitably be an antagonistic hide-and-seek dynamic between the two of you, even if you're trying to reconcile. But once all the facts are out on the table the defensiveness can go away and cooperation can begin. You've said that you want to trust her, but the fact is that she has been lying and deceiving the entire time this has been going on. These notions of rug-sweeping in the name of trust are simply delusional –– wondering about what you don't know will leave you resentful and untrusting indefinitely.

I'd announce the plan for the poly. If she has told you everything she has no reason to resist. If she does resist then all the more reason you need to do it. I am nearly certain that there's more. I am sorry for what you're going through, hang in there and make smart moves, not emotional ones.

Edit: you posted while I was writing... I see no point in getting HR involved. Therapy yes.

Edited November 12, 2020 by salparadise