I think my wife is cheating on me with a coworker

[Robert2016]

Every spouse has a right to feel safe from infidelity.  PA or EA, your wife's behavior is a big fail.  Even though she broke it off with the OM, she still has to fix herself so it doesn't happen again.

It's her responsibility to rebuild your trust (and it requires more than just the words "I'll never do it again or trust me" or tears & self recrimination or promises). Your wife needs to understand that under the circumstances she is now a liar - and you can't believe anything she says. 

Part of rebuilding trust is to convince you that she will not repeat again with some other guy that helps her at work, makes her feel special or pretty.

1 -  Let your wife write up a detailed timeline (including their conversations and especially how each contact made her feel, as well as how she felt when she returned home and/or lied to you).  The exercise of writing it all down acknowledges and allows her to very deeply confront herself with what she did (a necessary starting point to fix herself).

2 - I suggest you both read the book about how to protect your marriage ('Not Just Friends' by dr shirley glass - or a similar book).  It's based on research of couples that experienced infidelity. You'll both have a better understanding about how this mess happened and what she can do going forward to protect her marriage (to you or her next life partner).

3 - You've suffered a major life changing trauma from someone you trusted (google:  PTSD).  Read up on the symptoms and stages so you're at least familiar with what's happening. You flip flopping between R and D is typical.  As time goes on you'll become more centered.

4 - You should both read a book about:  how to help your spouse heal from infidelity (there's one by MacDonald).  There's many self help books on the topic and will provide your wife an understanding of the damage she did to you and what she can do.

 

 

   

 

[pepperbird2]

op,

You don't have to make any big decisions now, but I would advise you to avoid the trap of seeing her behaviour as a function of the circumstances she found herself in. She did what she did because she wanted to. It wasn't the workplace, the job, that she was a SAHM, that thus guy was attractive to her or anything else.
It was her and he alone. If she recognizes that and really understands it, that's often a  good sign. If she makes excuses, rationalizes or uses the word "but" ( i.e.- I did this, but you did that" you may have a bigger problem.

There's a tactic many BS use called "the 180". You are polite to your WS, the same way you would be to an acquaintance. It's about giving yourself time and space to make decisions without extra pressure from her. Some find it helpful.

[MickeyBill]

There are plenty of SAHM or D who have affairs and there are plenty of workers too. Most people do not have affairs, most women are hit on regulalry andar adept at shutting it down.  It boils down to her making the decision to flirt and kiss and  ________ with this guy A simple question Mr Flibble can ask is "what was it about him that made her decide to have an inappropriate relationship with him.

A couple good words to use are "decide" and "choose" when asking her about her affair. "Mistake" and "I don;t know" are not acceptable answers...

[S2B]

I agree - so many OM target married women saying they are easy targets because a tiny bit of attention gets them moving towards an affair.

just because your W moves to the next job - how will she provide you peace of mind she won’t find another guy at that work place to fill the void she has for attention?

[MickeyBill]

35 minutes ago, S2B said:

I agree - so many OM target married women saying they are easy targets because a tiny bit of attention gets them moving towards an affair.

just because your W moves to the next job - how will she provide you peace of mind she won’t find another guy at that work place to fill the void she has for attention?

Sounds like she has learned her lesson...hopefully one and done.

[Harry Korsnes]

19 minutes ago, MickeyBill said:

Sounds like she has learned her lesson...hopefully one and done.

Dont think so you should read pepperbird's post i think its cinda acurate.

[gamon]

On 11/12/2020 at 8:24 PM, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

Yes, she should get an lawyer. I told her so. It's a very strong possibility I will file for a divorce before the end of a year.

 

You're making some bad impulsive decisions. If divorce is a strong possibility you should never have told her you were consulting with an attorney and even more importantly, she never should have quit her job. You'll end up paying most of your net income to her in child and spousal support. Worst case scenario once you divorce she'll hook back up with the other guy and he'll move into your house while you've barely got enough money left to put a roof over your own head. Sounds unbelievable doesn't it. It happens. All the time.

 

[gamon]

On 11/13/2020 at 7:24 AM, schlumpy said:

That's why he needs a timeline of the affair from his wife. If he were to contact the OM for his side of the story, the timeline would be invaluable in determining the truth.

Do you honestly believe that if he was to contact the OM, he'd get the guy to write him a timeline? Seriously?

I'm picturing the other man furiously typing away on his computer with a date before each paragraph. "Oh wait that's not right, the hotel was on the 11th, the backseat of the car was on the 15th where's that delete key I don't want to mess this up..."

 

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

Thank you all, I wish I had the mental capacity to reply to all your posts. But I read them all

 

Nothing new to report. For now there is a mutual understanding that our last meeting was a little bit too much so we decided to give us a 2-day cooling period before we continue.

Still swinging moods. Going from missing her, to indifference to how dare She? and back.

My MIL tried to "check on me" a few times over past two days, but I put a stop to that. Felt like she was more than anything fishing for informations on what I will do. So I nicely told her to back off. She complied. 
 

But I told her one thing that should sound here, too.

If we stay together it won't be because we have children. I do not intend to stay in unhappy marriage just because it would "hurt the kids". I have heard this BS countless times, and it's just that - BS.

Children are not stupid. They know mom hates dad and dad can't stand mommy. I would much rather divorce and kept civil relationship with my ex than play this charade. And I'm not from broken family btw, my parents been married for more than 30 years and still going strong.

Also, scorched earth is out of a question now. For me it was valid option in case my wife decided to keep lying and be overall nasty about her affair. She's everything but nasty. And if we decide to continue with our marriage it would be a horrible attitude to build on

 

But all that is now up to her, I stand firm on filing for divorce if in a few months I won't feel like we are making a progress or in case some more facts purposefuly hidden from me come to light.

There is no need to rush. I want to talk to my wife about physical separation and to see if there's a possibility of rebuilding what she destroyed.

So that's where we are now. W and I are talking again tomorrow.

I had the opportunity to spend whole day today with girls, just the three of us. They are asking for mommy but I am still not sure how to navigate it. This will be part of the next talk.

 

And again, since this keeps comimg back - my wife wasn't some kind of victim fallen to a predator. Yes, He was manipulating her, but She could very easily put a stop to this. She was willing and that's what got us here. At least She admits that. 

Edited November 14, 2020 by MrFlibble_is_very_cross

[Pottering About]

Good luck tomorrow, I hope you are able to continue to make progress. 
 

I think that, although you have mood swings, you have a pretty good idea of how you want to move forward and I am not sure whether you are going to get any more useful advice that has not already been offered. In fact, I think some advice has been counter-productive, bordering on toxic at times. 
 

This forum will always be available if you want to vent or, hopefully, give updates. However, giving yourself until the New Year indicates you are in this for the longer term. Is it time to step back now to give yourself a break and see how the next 2 months pan out without external pressures? 
 

Here is hoping for a happy ending (minds out of gutters 😆), whatever that looks like, but I would like to know how this pans out. 

[MickeyBill]

Taking a break is probably a good idea, but the intense discussion needed to happen. With my XWW our discussions/arguments would be about 10 seconds until someone left or slammed a door so nothing was ever "finished", and that was where therapy helped, the therapist would make us keep talking, neither could storm away.

Also giving yourself a date of say Jan 31 you will take a look at the progress and see if things have gotten better /worse or stagnant  but that doesn't mean you will decide that day, you may give another month or two or my decide it's over.

Are you in your mind convinced she is honest about how far things went (only kissing and groping) ? It would be awful to reconcile then in 4 years "the guilt is killing me" and she confesses to more. Maybe give her a one time truth amnesty where you may or may not forgive but if it comes out later they had sex then the D is going to happen. 

Tough place to be for both of you.

[Pottering About]

MickeyBill, absolutely agree that the intense discussions had to happen. I think your advice here is sound.

[merrmeade]

Sorry if I missed this but are you both in the house. Just asking because if you settle back into life as you knew it, you might make your ultimatum less convincing.

[BMI03]

I’m sorry you are going through this. You are handling it extremely well so you should be proud of yourself for that. 
 

I think your wife loves you and is regretful. The throwing up was partial evidence of that. However, there is one part of her story that doesn’t add up for me, that I would suggest looking at. Cheaters are liars to safe themselves from getting in more trouble. She said the second insistent was making out for 10 minutes in his car?

Maybe this is just me but that doesn’t add up for me. Adults don’t ‘make our’ for 10 minutes. Adults kiss, maybe a minute, or two max, and then it goes somewhere or it doesn’t. Think about how long 10 minutes is to ONLY be kissing. Really, set a timer and look at the couch and let 10 minutes go buy. That’s a long time. If you do it, and have doubts, ask your wife next time she is there to sit with you and do nothing for 10 minutes. Watch how long 10 minutes is in that context. 
 

There are follow up questions. 10 minutes...were they both in the front seat? 10 minute is a long time to be positioned with a steering wheel in front of you, or leaning over a center arm rest. Or if not, did they move to the back seat? Why?

I don’t want this to get worse for you. I really don’t. But I do want you to get to the truth so you ca truly heal. I would believe they kissed for a minute or two in the front seat, or the did more than kiss in the back seat, but I have a hard time buying spending 10 minutes kissing only. Probe. 
 

Good luck

[TobyBoy]

I think you should prepare yourself for what’s coming. Good luck in your talks today. 

[Tempocontour316]

Please give us an update after your meeting with your lawyer.

[Loneheart]

On 11/14/2020 at 8:58 PM, merrmeade said:

Sorry if I missed this but are you both in the house. Just asking because if you settle back into life as you knew it, you might make your ultimatum less convincing.

I just realized that I commented on this because I thought it was to me. I was confused because someone else said something about a wife and I was like I dont have a wife lol. One of these days ill get the hang of these forums. Sorry for the mix up.

[S2B]

You know she is sorry she got caught - what you really need to know is IF she is sorry she did it.

has she started individual counseling yet? Is she learning anything about herself and why she betrayed you? 

[colingrant]

You're a pretty smart guy. Your principles are rock solid and that's placed you in somewhat of a predicament. You love your wife and you also know you will (or at least think you know) divorce her if you find out she's minimizing the affection. The truth changes your life so you have a taken a position against polygraph.

Your wife chose to lie to you on multiple occasions so that's been proven, yet you say if you can't trust your wife you have no marriage. Well, she's already proven that on multiple occasions so one could say you're already at the point of not having a marriage if lying is the boundary violation that leads to divorce.  Plus, if you're willing to retrieve texts to retrieve the truth, then that same principle can be used with polygraph considerations. 

I think you know there is not turning back from the poly as you are in control at this point and the moment you agree to a poly you're no longer in control. I get it. I'm not pointing this out corner you, but only to crystalize this so that you can view it from a perspective that helps with your thinking. I'll also say this. The question of sex will never go away. You'll either divorce without knowing it or you will reconcile. If you reconcile you will never be settled without knowing the truth. It's not in your make-up.

Call if gamesmanship if you will, but your marriage is no game and the foundation of it is  truth which I believe you should get for the sake of your personal peace. From what I've read you have reasons to think she has and some to think it hasn't happened. My take...

Her physical (getting sick) and emotional responses are are consistent with someone who violated a major marriage boundary that exceeds texts and kissing or her fear of the marriage is so great it causes a hyper reaction. Fine line here. She doesn't fear you recovering texts so that tells me there's possibly nothing incriminating in them or she forgot that their is something.

I would simply ask her "if you were polygraphed what would I find out"? I would leave it at that and wait 48 hours to see if she comes back with something.  No gamesman ship here. It's just a hypothetical question that would incite a reaction of no reaction or one that's telling. If you did this and placed a VAR in her car you would find out something as she'd call her sister or mom. 

The fact that her AP said "We'll see about that" tells me he's bold, fearless, confident and your wife gave him signals indicating she could be talked to this way. He saw he had her and was cold enough to actually tell her. A 10 minute make out session was unquestionably minimized and probably took 20-30 minutes. He has a boner and she's wet and bothered. Adults in this situation typically go a little further than high schoolers.

Minimally, hands were inside clothes and private parts were manipulated. If I'm (and I have been many times) him, and straight up sex isn't or can't happen, I'm going as far as humanly possible lust is the driver. Hence, zippers and buttons are opening stuff up. We're talking adults who are mutually attracted. His late night text wording and discomfort in your presence  suggests he hit a double or triple with your wife with no outs and scoring a run was just a matter of time.   

Edit:

By the way, if she  kissed the guy, I'd file and decide during the processing period to follow through with it or not. See, kissing  is simply the precursor to sex. She'll never admit to it but by the same token she never thought she'd ever have another man's tongue in her mouth also, so to say it wouldn't happen is untrue. If he felt her up down below (2nd base) then that's worse.  If sex, then you have to do what you have to do. 

Edited November 16, 2020 by colingrant
Add

[elaine567]

I don't think the vomiting episode is any proof of whether or not she had sex with the guy.
She may have, she may not have, both are entirely possible... 
Affairs for women are often not sex driven. They can be more about connection and feelings.
Yes sex  can happen and can be gratefully received but sex is often not the main driver.
Love, validation, being heard, being listened to, taking back control, even taking revenge can be more important.

I think the vomiting episode was due to the sudden realisation that her marriage may actually be over, that what she had done was not "fixable"..

Seems to me many betrayed men are focused primarily on whether or not a woman had sex.
No sex = no divorce, sex = divorce, when that is probably the least of his problems.
Some affairs are about power, control and resentment, that to me is a more serious problem than whether or not his wife actually had sex with the guy at work..

[Pottering About]

I am really pleased you posted this elaine567 as it gives a woman’s perspective, not just for this post. colingrant’s post is pretty hard hitting, especially as it is well written and comes across as supportive to the OP with no anger issues that may be found in others’ posts. 
 

Very difficult for the OP and hope he gets the support from this forum he deserves

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

On 11/13/2020 at 7:40 PM, Robert2016 said:

Every spouse has a right to feel safe from infidelity.  PA or EA, your wife's behavior is a big fail.  Even though she broke it off with the OM, she still has to fix herself so it doesn't happen again.

It's her responsibility to rebuild your trust (and it requires more than just the words "I'll never do it again or trust me" or tears & self recrimination or promises). Your wife needs to understand that under the circumstances she is now a liar - and you can't believe anything she says. 

Part of rebuilding trust is to convince you that she will not repeat again with some other guy that helps her at work, makes her feel special or pretty.

1 -  Let your wife write up a detailed timeline (including their conversations and especially how each contact made her feel, as well as how she felt when she returned home and/or lied to you).  The exercise of writing it all down acknowledges and allows her to very deeply confront herself with what she did (a necessary starting point to fix herself).

2 - I suggest you both read the book about how to protect your marriage ('Not Just Friends' by dr shirley glass - or a similar book).  It's based on research of couples that experienced infidelity. You'll both have a better understanding about how this mess happened and what she can do going forward to protect her marriage (to you or her next life partner).

3 - You've suffered a major life changing trauma from someone you trusted (google:  PTSD).  Read up on the symptoms and stages so you're at least familiar with what's happening. You flip flopping between R and D is typical.  As time goes on you'll become more centered.

4 - You should both read a book about:  how to help your spouse heal from infidelity (there's one by MacDonald).  There's many self help books on the topic and will provide your wife an understanding of the damage she did to you and what she can do.

 

 

   

 

Thank you on your recommendations. I will look it up. Everytime I feel like it's getting more stable something just blows up. See my update

 

I won't make any big decision without proper thoughts @pepperbird2, that's not how I do things.

Yes, she did what she did because she wanted to. Simple and very accurate answer to question WHY?. I think anybody can make a bad decision, a mistake, have a lapse in judgement. But those are drunken kisses at a Christmas party. Not a months long affair - that requires planning, lying and deceiving. 

On 11/14/2020 at 4:15 PM, gamon said:

You're making some bad impulsive decisions. If divorce is a strong possibility you should never have told her you were consulting with an attorney and even more importantly, she never should have quit her job. You'll end up paying most of your net income to her in child and spousal support. Worst case scenario once you divorce she'll hook back up with the other guy and he'll move into your house while you've barely got enough money left to put a roof over your own head. Sounds unbelievable doesn't it. It happens. All the time.

 

I am not. I should have told her and I did. Divorce is a strong possibility from a beginning and she knows that. I am even surprised I still haven't filed yet.

Also, we don't live in the US (and not US citizens - we are full european breed), marriage law is a lot different here. If we divorce she is entitled for a child support (not that much, it sucks here) and no spousal support (that's admissable only in case there is a serious reason why she can't get a job - ilness, baby up to 2 years, etc.). And She's not moving anyone into our house. We either continue our relationship/marriage or we sell the house. There is no third option I'm afraid. 

 

On 11/15/2020 at 2:58 AM, merrmeade said:

Sorry if I missed this but are you both in the house. Just asking because if you settle back into life as you knew it, you might make your ultimatum less convincing.

She stays at her parents but comes here every day to see our kids. 

 

On 11/15/2020 at 10:40 AM, BMI03 said:

I’m sorry you are going through this. You are handling it extremely well so you should be proud of yourself for that. 
 

I think your wife loves you and is regretful. The throwing up was partial evidence of that. However, there is one part of her story that doesn’t add up for me, that I would suggest looking at. Cheaters are liars to safe themselves from getting in more trouble. She said the second insistent was making out for 10 minutes in his car?

Maybe this is just me but that doesn’t add up for me. Adults don’t ‘make our’ for 10 minutes. Adults kiss, maybe a minute, or two max, and then it goes somewhere or it doesn’t. Think about how long 10 minutes is to ONLY be kissing. Really, set a timer and look at the couch and let 10 minutes go buy. That’s a long time. If you do it, and have doubts, ask your wife next time she is there to sit with you and do nothing for 10 minutes. Watch how long 10 minutes is in that context. 
 

There are follow up questions. 10 minutes...were they both in the front seat? 10 minute is a long time to be positioned with a steering wheel in front of you, or leaning over a center arm rest. Or if not, did they move to the back seat? Why?

I don’t want this to get worse for you. I really don’t. But I do want you to get to the truth so you ca truly heal. I would believe they kissed for a minute or two in the front seat, or the did more than kiss in the back seat, but I have a hard time buying spending 10 minutes kissing only. Probe. 
 

Good luck

Thanky you for your kind word. It means a lot. Yes, I know my wife loves me - that's why this hurts like bi.ch. The rest was hard to read, but now I think I know the truth. See my update.

13 hours ago, S2B said:

You know she is sorry she got caught - what you really need to know is IF she is sorry she did it.

has she started individual counseling yet? Is she learning anything about herself and why she betrayed you? 

I am pretty sure she's sorry for what she's done to me, our kids and even to herself. Not that I caught her. I think that it't too soon for counseling now, It's been only a week. But we will get there. 

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

I might disappear for few days after this, sorry. But I bet you can understand writing on here's not my top priority right now. 

 

But I am still very grateful for every response here. You prople help me to stay afloat.

 

So.. update. 

 

 Today has been a hell of a day.

 

Firstly, cat's out of a bag so to speak. My wife got call from an HR this morning. Somebody apparently reported them both. She called me right away why I did that, told her I didn't.

 

She called me again in tears an hour later to tell me SH's GF called HER and yelled at her for good 20 minutes. Then she wanted to speak to me.

 

So I called her in between meetings. 

 

She apparently found the NC message my wife sent over the weekend and went into investigation. We spoke about the situation we are in, I gave her my part of a story and we put together what we know. 

 

She's obviously the one who reported them to HR. Said she had some suspicion about the two, but since SH never let her into his phone there was no proof. She somehow found out the password and voilà!

 

On a positive note - looks like SH didn't bother deleting any messages. She has them all and sent me everything after our conversation. She also kicked SH out since He lives in HER appartment. Won't lie, great sense of justice. 

 

 

 

So I got the screenshots. Lots of them. 

 

Sort of good news/bad news.

 

Good news - I am now 100% positive they didn't have sex. It was never explicitly discussed, but He texted her apologizing for pushing her into it and she told him this was too much and they should stop. Other messages were hard to read, but they are in line with what she told me. Also if those messages are not some sort od cleaned up version of events they didn't text all that much, definitely less then I thought after my W told me she deleted some messages and even whole conversations.

 

No sexting. Just some inuendos and flirting from both sides. I was mentioned only few times and never in a bad way, more like off-hand comment. Guess there was no place for me or kids in their Neverland. 

 

Bad news - He told my wife multiple times He's in love with her. She either didn't adress it at all or downplayed it. This made me angry because I asked her directly before and she denied this. 

 

Also SH' GF would like to meet in person, not sure if it's a good idea. 

 

My wife doesn't know I have them. I want to process this before we talk again. Yesterday I thought we made a progress. And now this. At least I know bigger portion of a truth now. 

 

I also had a skype appointment with a lawyer today. Looked like a right guy, just a few years older than me. I told him my story and then let him speak. Looks like if we agree on kids and a house we can be done in 3 months. I was actually surprised, I thought I took longer than that. There is also no separation period.

 

That's probably too fast for me. I don't want to rush it, also 3 month is way too soon to see if there is any hope for us. So I won't file this year.

 

Wife has been trying to reach me since morning and I am playing it cool, just told her I need some time now.

 

We have a bank holiday tommorow, so we are both free. Not sure if it's good or bad. 

[TobyBoy]

Well here’s your chance to get some more truth from your wife. Tell her,  “GF found out the truth and SH confessed everything and even gave up all the texts....so start talking or I’m gone”.

eta: Don’t be surprise if NC was broken also. It mostly always happens after being exposed. 

Edited November 16, 2020 by TobyBoy

[TobyBoy]

Just want to make you aware that banks take these breaches very seriously. Expect full investigations into every aspect of your wife’s and SH relationship. I’m talking video recording, which no doubt will be very revealing and interviews with all team members. Full analysis of company cell phones....

In other words......your wife’s career is over!