I think my wife is cheating on me with a coworker

[Ruby Slippers]

What stands out for me is that while she managed to ask if you're going to leave her, at no point has she said that nothing (physical) beyond the texting happened. It gives me the feeling she did get physical with him and that's why she's so guilty and freaked out. Sucky situation. I'm sorry you're going through it.

[Watercolors]

And who the hell was she calling while she was out on the porch today, while you were playing with your children? Him, 100%. There's no doubt in my mind: him.

I agree that she is keeping the focus off herself and on you instead and how you feel, so that she doesn't have to tell you the truth.

If she truly loved you, she would have just told you the truth from the start before this blew up the way that it has.

The best approach is to come at this grounded and focused.

You have to keep the focus off of yourself and back on to her. She will do whatever she can to wriggle out of telling you the truth and that means she will deflect, deflect, deflect.

If she really wanted to 'fight for you' she wouldn't have even had the affair in the first place.

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

Can't sleep, so I will try to answer some of your questions. Sorry if it is random

First of all, it went physical. She never said it (yet), but i think it's obvious from her reactions. Still not sure they slept together, tho. I think they didn't, but were (maybe are) on that trajectory. I just hope it's still not too late to break it before it happens. 

2 hours ago, schlumpy said:

You are in the drivers seat. This should all unfold at your tempo, not hers.

I don't think I am, but I'm getting there. I made it very obvious that I will hear her out when I am ready. Seems like she is now finally OK with that and will stop pushing. 
 

1 hour ago, Buffer said:

talk to about her EA or possible PA in short periods say 10 minutes at a time. Easy thing is to write out what you want to ask.

That's my plan. I fear it might get heated and I think we should set up some ground rules before we get into it. 
 

1 hour ago, Ruby Slippers said:

What stands out for me is that while she managed to ask if you're going to leave her, at no point has she said that nothing (physical) beyond the texting happened. It gives me the feeling she did get physical with him and that's why she's so guilty and freaked out. Sucky situation. I'm sorry you're going through it.

Yeah, I am sorry too. But that's life. Regarding EA/PA read my second paragraph. 
 

 

1 hour ago, Watercolors said:

And who the hell was she calling while she was out on the porch today, while you were playing with your children? Him, 100%. There's no doubt in my mind: him.

Her mom to tell her I came back home. I asked her later if they are still in contact with s***face and she said their last contact was that text message I saw. Showed me her call log. She spoke to her mother. Her sister told me when we were alone that their mom is giving my W a piece of her mind since this all blow up. I love my MIL, she's a no-nonsence lady

 

1 hour ago, Watercolors said:

If she truly loved you, she would have just told you the truth from the start before this blew up the way that it has

This is my main problem with this. The lying and hiding. I plan to adress it.

But I am sure she still loves me. She just made a bunch of really stupid, selfish and immature decisions and is now too deep or just stubborn to admit it. 

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

That's it from me at least for now. I will try to get some sleep now. It's 1:30am here and kids will be up in a few hours jumping over my head. And I look forward to it

[usa1ah]

19 hours ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

thank you all for your support. I really means a lot to me

Well, I had a whopping 3 hours of sleep. My wife kept calling and texting till 4am. I just put it on silent. Literally hundreds of texts and calls. Probably should have blocked her number. I also have missed calls and texts from few mutual friends and surprisingly my parents. I think she assumed I went there. I am not that stupid. Still wonder what she told them. I wrote them I am OK and to not get involved. I will call them when I am ready. The anger from evening is gone and I am wallowing in self-pity now.

 

My friend asked me this morning If I think I overreacted. So thats all I'm thinking about now. Just great.

You didn’t over react, why in the hell should another man be asking if your wife is ok. 
 

Why did she delete all of their texts?

 

It is an emotional affair at the very least. 

[Buffer]

Not being a alarmist or trying to hit a man when down. 
In your (not her) eyes, what constitutes a EA/PA?

If they just held hands: is that ok? If they confessed their undying love: is that ok? If they just shared a kiss?  The reason I ask that if they exchanged saliva, then it was a PA. Unfortunately some STIs and well as STDs can be passed in saliva. You will need to be tested regardless of what she says. Some will find the accepting of the emotional affair harder to accept than a physical. Others will find just the idea of her meeting too much to accept. 
Please get her to write out a full time line and include what her thought process was during this A. It should include how she justified to herself that it was ok to lie not only to you but her children and family. If it was say just two months in duration. Then double it as the build up of the emotional connection, the first meeting away from work, that excitement of holding hand at a cafe or on a walk from the office, anticipation of the first kiss. Etc. it is never a mistake, it is a cold calculating decisions that lead to this. Not a o e off one night stand. She manipulated you, gaslight you, then tried to hide it from you. 
Go nuclear now on her friend, shine a light on him, let his wife or GF know what is going on. She has the right to know and you don’t need your wife’s permission to do this. If they still work together then the A will flourish. If she and you want to R then she will need to go total NC. To achieve this she may have to leave her employment and seek another job else where. Please take care of any TT. 
One day at a time. 
Buffer

[Mrin]

OP: just wanted to chime in here but @Buffer made a really great point. Tell her she has one chance to come clean and tell you everything. Not in spoken words. But rather write a timeline/narrative of what happened, when it happened and what her feelings are. If you find out later that she omitted anything material then you're done. Out of there. This is her one chance to come clean. If she's worried about you using it in a divorce proceeding later you can agree to burn it together after you have read it. 

That being said I have zero experience with being in your position except one time when my college girlfriend cheated on me. I know that I wish I had done something like this. 

Best of luck!

 

Mrin

 

 

[DKT3]

Having her write it down is very important,  I've seen wayward wives try to go back on things they've wrote here and accuse people of making it up when its a few posts back. 

There is alot of mental gymnastics that go into having affair,  particularly with women.  Thier stories tend to be very fluid,  and move in whatever direction she thinks will help her in that moment.  With it written it makes it much more difficult to amend....I mean she will likely still attempt...hopefully you have that cheating unicorn who will make this as easy as possible for you. 

[Acacia98]

10 hours ago, IslandSanctuary said:

I once dated a girl that was big on guy friends, she'd even get some to stay over at her house when they were visiting from out of town. She told me I was 'controlling' and 'insecure' for having a problem with it. So I started hanging out and fostering friendships with other women that were casual aquaintances. I could tell she had a problem with this, but because I was just mirroring what she was doing she couldn't say anything. I ended up at one of their houses playing cards and it just felt really weird. Isn't something I want to do, isn't something I need. 

 This is actually funny. So what ultimately happened? She confronted you? She stopped spending so much time with guy friends?

Anyway, funny it may be, but it sounds like a lot of work just to prove a point to someone you're not even married to. Why not just end the relationship? I mean, it was an obvious incompatibility.

[Acacia98]

10 hours ago, mark clemson said:

Insecure, possessive and controlling are EXACTLY the appropriate labels to put on a person who won't let the partner have ANY opposite sex friends. Claiming they aren't and that those terms are for "worse" behavior is an attempt to dodge the issue. I did not claim it was "abuse" or "cruelty", or use lots of adjectives like "horrible" or similar. Giving THE RIGHT labels to a behavior is not manipulative abuse - it's stating facts.

 

I think the ideal scenario here is that people should date/marry people who have similar beliefs in this area. Dating/marrying someone who is different and then trying to change them is problematic for the reasons you outline. It's also too much work.

[ExpatInItaly]

The more you write, OP, the more I sense that a lot more has happened between her and this other man that you (or even most of us here) initially suspected. 

Her reactions are telling. Her guilt is eating at her and she knows she has messed up. Notice how she isn't really insisting anymore that you've got it all wrong? Not since that "can't stop thinking about you" message came through. She knows that blew the cover off this and that she has got a lot of explaining to do, and a lot more she's been keeping hidden. She's panicking and having breakdowns because she knows things that you don't. 

I'm sorry you're going through this. 

Edited November 10, 2020 by ExpatInItaly

[Caauug]

I see this as a power struggle on your wife's part. Maybe the struggle is totally within her self.

As a SAHM she had to rely on you, so she viewed herself submissive while fulfilling her maternal instincts. When the kids could be taken to day care and she got a job, this gave her back freedom, the money gave her purchasing power of her own making. She begins to feel you were the cause of her restricted feelings when SAHM.... She sees co-worker or OM as a way out from you, she started the process to monkey branch. Her down playing OM's role is also her power, she is controlling what you know. Deleting messages also falls in here. WW knows more than you and is not telling you, that is her power over you. Your MIL schools WW on actions and sister stays over is making her have second thoughts, she doesn't want to loose face with family. The monkey branch was not complete, OM may not have wanted ready made family, just wanted a root with no responsibilities?

You walked out the door, you took back the power....

Once you say lets work on the marriage, she gets back most of the power (her ready to fight for you) she wants it back too. She will fight you for that power, and trickle truth, gaslight and what ever she has to to get it back and keep it. She will pay dirty and underhand tricks, she will try to place the blame on you. Be very careful how you play this.

Do not loose frame again when talking with her, only talk about her and her feeling and her actions and what the consequences are of her actions. Do not talk to her about your feelings, this only shows your weakness' to her. Your feelings are not her concern, she has proven that to you with the affair, only share them with a friend or family member that will not talk to WW. Remember no free rides, she had that with OM, it's time she pays the price for that!!! 

If she walks out of this and you rug sweep this, it show you are a push over and she can control (has the power) over you. It will show you are weak and she will be looking for a stronger man in now time. Just go sit in the corner but keep the money coming in she will monkey branch out as soon as she can.

Look and Listen, in that order.... Watch what she does, her actions are important (remember her actions showed you about the affair, OM's actions showed you it was him) Look first. Listen not so much, listen to make sure her actions are following up. Only believe what you see, not what dribble will coming out of her mouth. 

She wants her power back, you are her enemy because you took it away by leaving. What is she will to do to get it back? What will you have to do to keep it and show her you are worthy to hold it and she should admire you for it? Her love for you will be decided how you handle this.

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

Kids woke me up at 6:13 after less than 3 ours of sleep. Totally worth it. I'm still exhausted but feeling a lot better now. Feel more and more in control. 

Wife took a day off today. I think she expects to have the talk this morning. Her sister is here again. When we spoke last night she told me she has no idea what happened, my W refused to tell her anything before she tells me, but when her sister asked her if she had an affair she didn't say no. I am still not ready. Soon. 

 

But another thing happened this morning and I would like your input on this

 

TMI ALERT TMI ALERT TMI ALERT

 

Don't know what's wrong with me but I almost jumped her bones the moment I saw her in a kitchen this morning. I always felt strong attraction for her (she jokingly calls me "my pervert") but this is totally of the chart. Just absurd scale of attraction. 

 

I had to literally talk myself to turn around and leave. Is this some kind of "hysterical bonding" I read about? Any ideas how to put a stop to this? I'm 100% sure it would end up in disaster if we go that way.

I should probably rub one out and take a cold shower, eh?

 

And if they slept together or told each other ILY I am done anyway. That, I realized before I fell asleep, is where my line is. Anything other than this is still a grey area for me. 

 

And i realized I am still wearing my weddding ring. Not sure how I feel about that.

[Buffer]

Strength brother,  the jumping her bones is your subconscious, trying to take her back from this POS. Establishing dominance in the relationship. It is very early here, you both need the STD/STI checks regardless. She needs to show you a negative result, as well as not being pregnant. Until then practice safe sex.

The children need to be protected from the fall out. Please keep Mr Angry in check.

One day at a time and good luck.

Buffer

[DKT3]

Its best to not make statements like if they...then im.... 

The problem is you have just start and your emotions will run the gamit. I promise you,  you will feel differently in two weeks,  two day and again in three weeks or 5 hrs. Just like that sentence,  your emotions will be all over the place. 

Yes, its common to want to have sex with her. Often, once cheated on you have an immediate desire to "reclaim" your partner.  Then anger, then more reclaiming. 

This will not be linear, you might feel really good for awhile then feel worse then you do right now.

Really the best thing you can do is listen to what she has to say, then get away from her for awhile. I know its more difficult to do with COVID-19.  

[DKT3]

Also, this may sound like common sense,  but don't forget to eat and drink. Avoid alcohol.  No need to compound your problems with something stupid after having too many.

[S2B]

Her reaction is one if guilty. she sorry she got caught - she hasn’t said she’s sorry she did it. And she definitely was having an affair with him.

don't forgive easily. Make her do the work to figure out why she betrayed you and how to fix what’s broken inside of her.

she should be in the guest room not you!

start making demands! It’s possible she is still communicating with him!

first request is she quite the job now! And she never speaks to him again! If he’s married call and tell the wife but don’t allow your wife to know you plan to reach out to his wife.

 

if she won’t quit - she doesn’t plan to end the affair - if that’s the case - your wife should move out now!

10 hours ago, Ruby Slippers said:

What stands out for me is that while she managed to ask if you're going to leave her, at no point has she said that nothing (physical) beyond the texting happened. It gives me the feeling she did get physical with him and that's why she's so guilty and freaked out. Sucky situation. I'm sorry you're going through it.

 

[schlumpy]

You have the week off. Go see a lawyer. Find out what your options are.

Her writing a timeline is a good move.

She is deep into the lying and denial part of the affair. That means she wants to protect it. It would be naïve to believe she can just end her affair. It was put on hold pending the outcome of your negotiations. She will have to quit her job or he will, otherwise the relationship will just go deep underground until you are lulled back to sleep. He occupies a part of her heart.

If you are at an impasse then consider a polygraph. 

[S2B]

Polygraph for sure - since she isn’t offering her truth. 

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

I know I will get a beating for this, but I feel the need to defend my wife here. My wife DID lie and denied. Past tense.

Now I believe she is ready to tell me the thruth but I'm not ready for that. She wanted to talk to me many times during those past two days and it was me who refused. I'm just not ready yet, but I'm getting there. 
 

regarding the polygraph - as I stated before I would rather just file for divorce than hook up my wife to polygraph. Still think if you need to do this your marriage is already over. 
 

51 minutes ago, Buffer said:

Strength brother,  the jumping her bones is your subconscious, trying to take her back from this POS. Establishing dominance in the relationship. It is very early here, you both need the STD/STI checks regardless. She needs to show you a negative result, as well as not being pregnant. Until then practice safe sex.

The children need to be protected from the fall out. Please keep Mr Angry in check.

One day at a time and good luck.

Buffer

So we are still animals after all, huh? Knew that. I've been reading about STD and I am pretty sure I will never have sex in my life again. Sex is off the table for a long time anyway even if we decide to stay together. 
 

@DKT3 Exactly. Up and down, up and down. I lost 4 kg in 2 days, so I will look into that. I'm going for a walk now to get some fresh air

 

@S2B thank you for your ideas. They are in line with what I came up with myself. Her quitting her job is not up for discussion. And yes, she apologized a lot. Just not know for what yet. But I will

 

[usa1ah]

3 hours ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

Kids woke me up at 6:13 after less than 3 ours of sleep. Totally worth it. I'm still exhausted but feeling a lot better now. Feel more and more in control. 

Wife took a day off today. I think she expects to have the talk this morning. Her sister is here again. When we spoke last night she told me she has no idea what happened, my W refused to tell her anything before she tells me, but when her sister asked her if she had an affair she didn't say no. I am still not ready. Soon. 

 

But another thing happened this morning and I would like your input on this

 

TMI ALERT TMI ALERT TMI ALERT

 

Don't know what's wrong with me but I almost jumped her bones the moment I saw her in a kitchen this morning. I always felt strong attraction for her (she jokingly calls me "my pervert") but this is totally of the chart. Just absurd scale of attraction. 

 

I had to literally talk myself to turn around and leave. Is this some kind of "hysterical bonding" I read about? Any ideas how to put a stop to this? I'm 100% sure it would end up in disaster if we go that way.

I should probably rub one out and take a cold shower, eh?

 

And if they slept together or told each other ILY I am done anyway. That, I realized before I fell asleep, is where my line is. Anything other than this is still a grey area for me. 

 

And i realized I am still wearing my weddding ring. Not sure how I feel about that.

It is the need to reclaim your wife. 

[elaine567]

11 hours ago, Ruby Slippers said:

What stands out for me is that while she managed to ask if you're going to leave her, at no point has she said that nothing (physical) beyond the texting happened. It gives me the feeling she did get physical with him and that's why she's so guilty and freaked out. Sucky situation. I'm sorry you're going through it.

Maybe but even if she didn't she is hardly going to bring up physicality in case he goes "Why bring that up, you must be guilty."
It is a no win situation, if she never mentions a PA, then she is trying to hide it and is obviously guilty, if she mentions a PA and says it didn't occur, then of course it was a PA... why mention it otherwise.. she is damned whatever she says.
This is the problem with confronting with no real evidence.
He doesn't KNOW what occurred, he is surmising and hoping he can somehow force it out of her or she slips up or she comes clean, or she even admits to stuff she hasn't done to get him off her back.
But if she sticks to her story, which may indeed be the truth, who knows? then  there is no real "proof" to be had.

 

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

@elaine567 that's what I am afraid of. In case she starts lying again I have no way to contront those lies with evidence. As you put it there is no win-win situation
 

Minor update

Wife started to avoid me after I sent her away when she approached me this morning again. Her sister told me my W thinks I am going to throw her out. 

Yeah, that's not gonna happen.

As much as I hate this, she is still my wife and this is her home too. I realize this might change after I will know the whole story. I hope not.

 

The house is another s***ty situation. We finished it only a year before. And if we divorce there is no way one of us will be able to keep the house. Building it drained us out of most of our reserves so there si no way we could pay each other his/her half. And kids love it here since most of it was planned with regard to their needs/wants

Edited November 10, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Response to deleted post

[ExpatInItaly]

46 minutes ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

Wife started to avoid me after I sent her away when she approached me this morning again. Her sister told me my W thinks I am going to throw her out. 

This is probably just her assuming that you want your space. 

As much as possible, I would keep her sister out of your thought process and conversations about this situation. She's your wife's confidante, of course, but things tend to get too messy when there's an intermediary around. I would simply let her know that you'll discuss the relevant issues and details with your wife, when you're ready.

Don't get too ahead of yourself thinking about what to do with the house. You're not at the point where you need to delve into that yet. Focus first on having the conversation with your wife about what exactly has been going on, and where her heart and mind have been the last few months with regards to your marriage. You might hear things you don't want to hear, yes. But it evidently needs to be discussed now. There were problems simmering even though you didn't realize it until very recently. 

 

[schlumpy]

5 hours ago, elaine567 said:

But if she sticks to her story, which may indeed be the truth, who knows? then  there is no real "proof" to be had.
 

Maybe, but - 

People who cheat and get caught, will only admit to what they think you know. They will also minimize the details as much as possible. That's where the written timeline comes in. It should contain details that are verifiable.

I respect your need to get yourself ready but it also gives her time to get her story straight.

Your resolve is being tested.