Can this be turned around?

[BaileyB]

 

Do I really have the right to be choosy?

 

Of course you do. This is what we were trying to tell you - unless you were looking for a flaky woman to have sex with, you should have been more choosy about this one...

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

I would never go on a date with someone who said, "Do you want to meet for water?" Or even, "Do you want to go for a drink? I'll just be having water, but you can have whatever...."

 

I'd be wondering if you A. were setting me up to judge me based on how much alcohol I drank or B. setting me up to take advantage of me.....you stay sober and in control of your faculties while getting me tipsy to take advantage or C. You're a cheap skate and you're only drinking water so I'll pick up the bill.

 

If you invite me out for dinner or tapas, and then you only order water, that would be better. Or if you order iced tea or lemonade.

 

Otherwise you just seem weird to me, to be honest. It's no issue at all that you don't drink, but going out for a drink and then only getting water is just odd!

 

I have a friend, who is actually a bartender, who rarely drinks because even one drink just makes him feel awful, like physically ill (I believe he must have some sort of medical condition because he has some other issues too). It doesn't keep him from socializing with drinkers, but all he has to say is simply, "I don't like how it makes me feel." Or even, "as I age, alcohol just doesn't agree with me."

 

And order a freaking Coca Cola!

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

And P.S. With how rigid you are about this one issue, it makes me wonder how unflexible you are with everything in your life, which does not make for a good partner. I'd be afraid you'd go all Sleeping With the Enemy on me.

[Imajerk17]

There are multitudes of people who have changed for change sake and have no better results before and live unhappy lives trying to be what they are not. I'd rather be me and live a fairly happy if lonely life than be miserable being what people think I need to be. I have tried that.

 

 

For what its worth, nobody on this forum has ever offended me so forthright opinions are good.

 

 

I like structure yes and yes I can actually let my hair down sometimes, its nice to go tasting different foods at a fresh food market for example, I am not adverse to trying new things and I have no issue with clubbing and bars provided the persons entire social existence doesn't revolve around those things. What people aren't getting here is its NOT ME has a issue with people drinking its THEM having an issue that I don't drink. I don't make a fuss of it at all, I try move the conversation on but they tend to hark on it because its UNUSUAL here, or seemingly so.

 

 

For what its worth I once again came across someone not dissimilar to the first person, this one is 29 yo, again wanted to get overly friendly with me, she isn't my cup of tea looks wise but it was nice to chat to her. In the past I would look at the overall picture, now I simply take any positive I can from any situation.

 

 

But, you ARE making an issue of it though. I simply don't know how to get this point across to you, but it truly is odd to meet someone at a bar or restaurant for a date where that person doesn't get ANYTHING besides tap water I mean, the best way I can explain it is that it just feels weird to be enjoying food and drink while the person in your company is going without anything, even if it is voluntarily.

 

Cripes dude, just order some food and some club soda and say that you worked out hard today and you recover better by not drinking right after. If you can't even do that, you could go hiking or even meet at a juice bar. I am also sure there are plenty of women out there--prob not on Tinder--who aren't into bars/clubs/drinking either, you could target your search for those. (You gave some excuses why you can't do hiking for a first date I forget what they were, but I digress. You instead insist upon meeting women, off Tinder, at a bar of all places, for your first dates. Oh well...)

 

 

I hate to pile on, but...are you aware that EVERYONE here is saying basically the same thing, and instead of taking it in, you are writing diatribe after diatribe arguing. You have an excuse for everything. The people you date are looking for someone whom they can have a good time with. Are you aware of how rigid and set in your ways you come across? It's probably your biggest block when it comes to women.

Edited January 7, 2018 by Imajerk17

[browzer]

The woman was NOT a prostitute. If she WAS she wouldn't have gone dark, she would have contacted him again and set up a "date" because that's how she earns a living. Even if she thinks he's weird.

 

This isn't about him drinking water. There's a totally cool way to go about telling a potential date that you don't drink, and I posted as much on another thread.

 

"Hey you go ahead and drink some wine, I'm sticking with water because I'm all about health and fitness and I plan to be scuba diving in the Bahamas and hiking to the top of mountains well into my 70s and putting money in the bank is a good start but I won't be one of those people who drops dead the day after they retire because they didn't take care of themselves, which is also why I drag myself out of bed at 6:30 to go do a circuit in the gym 3x per week".

 

That's one of MANY ways to handle it. As I said I rarely drink and I've had no issues meeting and having relationships with many women post-divorce, most of whom were big wine drinkers.

 

ZA's numerous threads about his dating failures have nothing to do with drinking water.

 

Women lose interest or go so far as to block him after one or more conversations or a first date. He's acting weird and they're either put off at the very least or they're afraid of him at the very worst.

 

Dude you need to bounce these things off a trained professional. Do some role playing and say and do all the things as if you were talking to a woman either on the phone or in person, and let that licensed professional tell you why you are batting a big fat ZERO.

[elaine567]

Dude you need to bounce these things off a trained professional. Do some role playing and say and do all the things as if you were talking to a woman either on the phone or in person, and let that licensed professional tell you why you are batting a big fat ZERO.

 

Agreed but if i remember rightly this was suggested years ago and keeps popping up but he has never wanted to do it.

I guess a coach could tell him in approx. 10 secs what is really going on here and I very much doubt it has anything to do with drinking water.

[Imajerk17]

The woman was NOT a prostitute. If she WAS she wouldn't have gone dark, she would have contacted him again and set up a "date" because that's how she earns a living. Even if she thinks he's weird.

 

This isn't about him drinking water. There's a totally cool way to go about telling a potential date that you don't drink, and I posted as much on another thread.

 

"Hey you go ahead and drink some wine, I'm sticking with water because I'm all about health and fitness and I plan to be scuba diving in the Bahamas and hiking to the top of mountains well into my 70s and putting money in the bank is a good start but I won't be one of those people who drops dead the day after they retire because they didn't take care of themselves, which is also why I drag myself out of bed at 6:30 to go do a circuit in the gym 3x per week".

 

That's one of MANY ways to handle it. As I said I rarely drink and I've had no issues meeting and having relationships with many women post-divorce, most of whom were big wine drinkers.

 

ZA's numerous threads about his dating failures have nothing to do with drinking water.

 

Women lose interest or go so far as to block him after one or more conversations or a first date. He's acting weird and they're either put off at the very least or they're afraid of him at the very worst.

 

Dude you need to bounce these things off a trained professional. Do some role playing and say and do all the things as if you were talking to a woman either on the phone or in person, and let that licensed professional tell you why you are batting a big fat ZERO.

 

browser I think you usually give really good advice but I don't think I'd advocate this way to handle the non-drinking. Look, going to a bar or any venue where food and drink is served and ordering only *tap-water* is just plain weird period. Nevermind for a first date. It's not fun for most people to be enjoying food/drink while the person with them is only having tap-water. Saying that this is part of the master plan to be climbing Mt Kilimanjaro at 100 doesn't really change it.

 

I know of several people who are really really into CrossFit. They have plenty of so-called "cheat meals" involving beer, at least when they don't have a competition coming up.

 

I'd advise ZA to change the venue of his first dates to one that suits his preferences better, such as hiking. Or to stop being so damn uptight and order some food and a soft drink (and if the not-drinking comes up, then I suppose to use a bit of what you said, maybe he is training for something and he recovers better after his workouts without alcohol).

 

But yes I agree with you that ZA would benefit from a good dating coach's *in-person* perspective. I mean, he may not come across as the life of the party, but you definitely do not have to be the life of the party to get women interested in you. There is something else going on, besides the not drinking. I mean, he leads an active lifestyle and is still able to get matches off Tinder, so it definitely is NOT his looks per se.

Edited January 8, 2018 by Imajerk17

[NuevoYorko]

ZA's numerous threads about his dating failures have nothing to do with drinking water.

 

I think they have to do with being rigid and judgmental. Also coming off as superior, which I think is only a defense mechanism and not genuine conceit, but it's a big part of the way OP's dates go.

 

As I've said, I have not taken a drink in a long time. I hang around with people who enjoy some drinks, are wine aficionados, beer makers, all kinds of things. Their drinking and my non drinking barely comes into the equation and that's because I am not all wound up about it.

 

 

OP can and should figure out where his boundary with that is as well and then just quit engaging in these conversations about who's drinking what.

[ZA Dater]

Of course you do. This is what we were trying to tell you - unless you were looking for a flaky woman to have sex with, you should have been more choosy about this one...

 

 

 

Probably rather unknowingly you have actually stumbled on the real problem. I am going to get judged very harshly for this which is ok, I can take it.

 

 

My thought process with dating has always been long term, i.e. not one night stands, my thought process is to become friends with a person and then move things on from there. This to me is logical, perhaps its wrong.

 

 

There have been a number of issues with this though, because the only way I can really befriend people is to have something in common with them or a shared interest and that doesn't really work for me because my interests are somewhat left field. What I essentially try and do is to say "ok lets see if I like this person enough to try and fit in with what they like", that hardly ever happens because I never like them enough.

 

 

Somewhere though I realised my approach was not working so as has happened here I chased after perhaps people ill suited to me but with the potential to give me experiences I would like to have and who knows perhaps I might like them.

 

 

People talk compatibility, I look for that, really I do, its probably number 1 on my list, purely because if I cant see myself being interested in the person as whole them I don't think I can be interested in them at all.

 

 

My problem is this: How do I balance wanting experiences with wanting someone fantastic to take to events and integrate into my life? At the moment it seems it simply cant be the same person. Which is why having a friend who is integrated to an extent into my life is so nice, albeit highly flawed, I'll drink champagne with her, I'll try sip wine with her and it just works, we have a good time BUT this is rare that I connect on that level.

 

 

Ask yourself this, its nice when people pay attention and remember things about you and take an interest in you, for most its second nature, for me its rare.

 

 

I never let my guard down unless I know the person well. That's probably problem number 2.

 

 

I wont disagree, this person in this thread isn't for me, nor is the other one who is dead keen to go for dinner and whatever else but its very hard to find that person to integrate with.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

my interests are somewhat left field.

 

Like what?

[ZA Dater]

But yes I agree with you that ZA would benefit from a good dating coach's *in-person* perspective. I mean, he may not come across as the life of the party, but you definitely do not have to be the life of the party to get women interested in you. There is something else going on, besides the not drinking. I mean, he leads an active lifestyle and is still able to get matches off Tinder, so it definitely is NOT his looks per se.

 

 

Yes because a so called "dating coach" is representative of millions of people? I wont ever buy into this argument unless said coach can trot out a CV of every successful date they have been on, which is actually irrelevant because unless the coach is my twin their experiences wont be representative of mine. Or are what you really trying to say everyone is the same so one thing will work on every single person on this planet? I exaggerate purposefully because there is little evidence that will convince these "coaches" are anything more than a very creative way to make money.

 

 

Odd are if I lined up 3 of these so called coaches, each would tell me something different....then I am sure the point will be "oh but you need to try them till you find the right one".

[elaine567]

What about a matchmaker or a dating agency?

[NuevoYorko]

 

 

Odd are if I lined up 3 of these so called coaches, each would tell me something different....then I am sure the point will be "oh but you need to try them till you find the right one".

. Oh please. Go to 3 fitness, diet, employment coaches. They are all likely to have different approaches. Go to 3 doctors. They may all have different treatment plans. All of them could well be solid.

 

That said, a dating coach would be wasteful of your time and money since you seem pretty adamant about only listening to what you want to hear.

[act00]

This isn't about him drinking water. There's a totally cool way to go about telling a potential date that you don't drink, and I posted as much on another thread.

 

"Hey you go ahead and drink some wine, I'm sticking with water because I'm all about health and fitness and I plan to be scuba diving in the Bahamas and hiking to the top of mountains well into my 70s and putting money in the bank is a good start but I won't be one of those people who drops dead the day after they retire because they didn't take care of themselves, which is also why I drag myself out of bed at 6:30 to go do a circuit in the gym 3x per week".

That's one of MANY ways to handle it. As I said I rarely drink and I've had no issues meeting and having relationships with many women post-divorce, most of whom were big wine drinkers.

 

While I'm sure the above carries much sarcasm, let's not toss passive and shrouded insults and judgement at someone. Be careful how to word things. It would be more productive to say that you don't like alcohol, it gives you headaches/makes you sick, or you you're working on some personal healthy changes or "detoxing" or something, but to state you don't drink because "they don't take care of themselves," while you are apparently far superior, do take care of yourself, (and this is a general you) over some imbibing and loosening the rules on a date or weekend would come across as judgmental and holier than thou, and sorry, most people would be exiting the date/relationship pretty pronto if someone had that attitude and said it out loud with such bluntness. It's really saying to your date or new friend, you don't take care of yourself or value yourself...unless you do it my way.

 

I don't like the way it makes me feel.

I think I have an allergy to it, I always feel really sick after.

I get raging headaches.

I just prefer this as part of my diet, but I don't mind at all if you drink.

 

What's simply beyond me is that ZA can't drink other beverages like soda, tea, a virgin cocktail, a coffee. Most restaurants out here offer a non-alcoholic menu. Something that suggests, "I plan to be here awhile and get to know you." At least meet for a light appetizer.

 

I've been on the "water date," and it felt so "not interested" to me, and a little awkward, like specifically getting together for lunch, but the other person doesn't order anything to eat. After my wine, which I covered, the date was over. I pretty much didn't think I'd get another call/text, and frankly, I wasn't sure if it mattered, despite we seemed to hit it off okay...he just seemed so nonplussed and eager to not do anything that might make the date last more than 30 minutes. Not a good start, IMO.

[GemmaUK]

So on page 9 of this thread you said you do drink champagne and wine so I don't understand why you don't when on a date or why you keep saying you only drink water??

 

One thing you need to do is choose whether you want to meet someone to gain experience or meet someone for something long term.

Each would require different mindsets and approaches.

[Cookiesandough]

I doubt if you start ordering ginger ale on dates you will see much of a difference, but worth a try

 

I think you might not be laid back enough to put it lightly. I really think that's your problem if the tone of your posts is any indication of your personality on dates

Edited January 9, 2018 by Cookiesandough

[basil67]

Firstly I don't judge people by what they eat or what they drink, neither defines them as people.

 

Secondly, do you not think it odd to judge by what people drink?

 

It's not about defining them as people....it's about gauging compatibility.

 

Now, I love all kinds of food. Eating out and trying new tastes is one of my favourite things to do with a partner. I just know that if a date has the palate of a toddler, I won't be able to have that shared experience of food with him. And it's no fun trying new food if the person across the table can't enthuse with you.

[Imajerk17]

Yes because a so called "dating coach" is representative of millions of people? I wont ever buy into this argument unless said coach can trot out a CV of every successful date they have been on, which is actually irrelevant because unless the coach is my twin their experiences wont be representative of mine. Or are what you really trying to say everyone is the same so one thing will work on every single person on this planet? I exaggerate purposefully because there is little evidence that will convince these "coaches" are anything more than a very creative way to make money.

 

 

Odd are if I lined up 3 of these so called coaches, each would tell me something different....then I am sure the point will be "oh but you need to try them till you find the right one".

 

Are you sure about that though. I mean, we on LS are a fairly random collection of people, and yet almost EVERYONE here is still telling you basically the SAME thing.

 

Then again maybe you are right that a dating coach would not help you. You seem to be completely unwilling to take ANY feedback or suggestion (including the really obvious one--if you don't drink/like to order food then meet your dates some place other than at a bar ) I could imagine you hiring someone who'd give you so many great pointers that would really help you, and then you'd still reject every single one of them. Sad.

Edited January 9, 2018 by Imajerk17

[browzer]

browser I think you usually give really good advice but I don't think I'd advocate this way to handle the non-drinking.

 

I think you missed my point. The way I suggested handling non drinking will not work for ZA because his problem with meeting and keeping a woman has nothing to do with his nondrinking even though he's got himself and a handful of helpful posters convinced that's what the problem is.

 

I was simply pointing out that there are ways for a relatively normal guy who doesn't drink to meet women, such as I have done. It will not work for a guy who comes across as an oddball.

[elaine567]

I was simply pointing out that there are ways for a relatively normal guy who doesn't drink to meet women, such as I have done. It will not work for a guy who comes across as an oddball.

 

Unfortunately that I guess is the bottom line, and nothing can be done about that until the OP decides to address that issue.

 

I watched a TV programme last night called "the Undateables" and on there was a young guy with Tourettes and even through the tics, the swearing, the weird noises, the offensive comments, he still came across as a normal, straight up, decent guy and the girl he dated could see that, as could I.

Something about Za Dater is a deal breaker to every women he comes into contact with, and until he makes an effort to find out the real reason why, it will continue to be a problem.

[ZA Dater]

A number of posts suggest I don't eat, I do order food with my water...

 

 

As things stand now

 

 

I have the following

 

 

1: The original 37yo who still wants to meet up

2: Another 29yo who seems to be ok but nothing that screams "meet me", she too is keen to get "friendly" but she seems nice, chatting with her.

3: A 33yo, some common interests but again the conversation isn't really flowing but I will see, chatting with her.

4: A friend has set me up with 2 students on holiday from Finland, they will be arriving tomorrow for a pool party, both are what can very modesty described as easy on the eyes.

 

 

But yes your comment above stands, oddball puts people off which I guess is unfortunate if you choose not to conform.

 

 

What are the opinions of the above?

[ZA Dater]

So on page 9 of this thread you said you do drink champagne and wine so I don't understand why you don't when on a date or why you keep saying you only drink water??

 

One thing you need to do is choose whether you want to meet someone to gain experience or meet someone for something long term.

Each would require different mindsets and approaches.

 

 

Right there is the biggest problem....I don't know which one I want, well I know what I do want and its both in a way but seemingly I cant find someone suited to both.

[SammySammy]

But yes your comment above stands, oddball puts people off which I guess is unfortunate if you choose not to conform.

 

 

What are the opinions of the above?

 

My opinion is ... no opinion will matter if you can't create rapport with women. If they don't feel comfortable and at ease with you.

 

Better yet, in order to create a lasting relationship, they have to WANT to be with you. Choose your company over their other options.

 

Your problem is how to bridge the gap between choosing not to conform and creating that level of desire for your company.

 

Until you figure that out and are able to do it, nothing said or done will matter. And nothing in your dating life will change.

 

You've got to figure out how to "be attractive and not be unattractive". The basic underlying principle of all these discussions.

[Els]

I doesn't because, I said the following, "lets go out for a drink, well for me that's a water hahaha".

 

 

I honestly don't see anything wrong with that, she already knew I only drink water.

 

 

Does this truly fly with the establishments you go to ? Everywhere I've been, it's considered extremely RUDE for someone to go to a bar/ restaurant/ cafe/ whatever and spend literally zero on yourself. You're taking up table space and service time, but essentially not ordering anything. Some places will even show you the door if you do that.

 

If you insist that you MUST drink nothing but water (and by nothing I mean not even lemonade or tea or coffee), then don't ask a date out for drinks. Ask them out to a place that serves food or desserts. You do take those... right??

[browzer]

But yes your comment above stands, oddball puts people off which I guess is unfortunate if you choose not to conform.

 

My comment about women being turned off by oddballs in no way was a reference to noncomforming and not drinking.

 

Dude you can either be more honest with yourself or you can continue to convince yourself that it's because of your refusal to drink that women don't want to see you after 1 date or even 1 phone conversation but as long as you've got the blinders on you'll continue to fail, and in 20 years and gazillion threads started on the subject of your dating failures you'll be no closer to reaching your goals.

 

There are serious issues that are preventing you from succeeding in meeting and keeping even one woman.

 

The lack of drinking and failure to conform has nothing whatsoever to do with it.

 

You are coming across to these women who block you as weird, possibly even a threat and you need to figure this out and fix it and you cannot do it simply by reading helpful forum posts- you NEED professional help, and yes there's no guarantee that the first or the 10th therapist you speak to will be able to help you but that is no reason not to try.