cruelty during the affair.

[qubist]

Qubist & Mrs Adams. Thank you so much! I've been in the 'penalty box' here at LS for the last week ;-(

 

I had a specialist health appointment this morning. I'm still processing. She tried to reassure me...one step at a time.

 

I feel like the A has been rug-swept. I've asked my questions, got answers. I have all the passwords. I'm as certain as I can be that it's over. I feel like it was a surreal nightmare. Not quite real but the agony just crushes me out of nowhere. I NEED to talk about everything but I've runout of things to say...not that I've said that much. I feel like I need reassurances. I just want to feel safe. I want some certainty in my life. I feel so powerless about EVERYTHING in my life.

 

Last night my H was quiet & down. I asked if he was ok. He said he had a lot on his mind, tons of work stress etc. I pushed & asked if we were ok. He seemed shocked that I'd question that! Said "Of course we are!! Aren't we??". It's like it was the last thing on his mind! How can it just be over, just like that? How can it NOT be on his mind? It's crippling me!! It's consuming.

 

Do others feel like this when it's over? In August I was still finding mails & getting trickle truth. It hasn't been that long but it feels like an eternity...

 

October & Halloween is a huge trigger for me. It was the start of November that he started emailing her again & Mr Alien moved-in. For the longest time I knew I'd done something wrong last October. I've analyzed everyday of that month! Ugh!!!

 

I'd like to talk to your friend Mrs Adams. Insight would be wonderful. It's still a very lonely place out here.

Keep up your spirit, i noticed you are a fighter, you've fought hard for your family despite all the obstacles.trust me not lot of people would have done it. keep looking out for yourself physically and mentally. remember your happiness depend on one person: YOU

[Mrs. John Adams]

I e mailed her today and i am hoping she will come here.

 

She is a counselor as well so I really think she has some good things to share.

Her name on another site is hopefulgirl......if that gives you some indication of her attitude.

 

SL....I am sorry you were in time out.....I really missed you....and i could not pm you.

I was hoping things were going well for you....

 

One of the things that just pisses me off...is all the stories i read how the wayward turns things around to make it all seem like everything is the betrayed's fault. I am sure i must have done that too...but DAMN....that is so unfair.....

 

it must just absolutely be that selfish denial we possess.....and your husband seems to be an expert at doing that to you. I wonder if you put him in his place if that would give him an attitude adjustment? Mr. Adams just would not allow me to place blame on him.....he would snap me right back into reality. At the time...i would recoil...but i do think it was the right thing to do. Have you done that?

[minimariah]

hello,

 

just wanted to say - thank you all for your contributions to this thread. i value and appreciate every comment and experience.

 

it is very hard to have someone you share your day - to - day life with turn on you, seemingly over night... and have them inflict so much pain for whatever reason. some experiences were really tough and made my eyes water while reading. cruelty & rewriting history will make a person absolutely mad.

 

so i applaud all of you who rised above & managed to move on with your life in a healthy way.

[Spark1111]

hello,

 

just wanted to say - thank you all for your contributions to this thread. i value and appreciate every comment and experience.

 

it is very hard to have someone you share your day -ueu to - day life with turn on you, seemingly over night... and have them inflict so much pain for whatever reason. some experiences were really tough and made my eyes water while reading. cruelty & rewriting history will make a person absolutely mad.

 

so i applaud all of you who rised above & managed to move on with your life in a healthy way.

 

Well, it wasn't true....No matter what he portrayed, she bought into and then fed during their affair....none of it.

 

When Dday hit, my 18- year old son, said "Mom, you HAve to know this had nothing to do with you".... And my gut reaction agreed.

 

But it took me almost 3 years on the crazy train for my heart and mind to come full circle and agree with my initial "blink."

 

Affairees lie to themselves, to each other....in addition to the BS. Then, scary stuff, they start to believe those lies. You do become the villian. Read up on triangular relationships....All normal AND horrific for those being victimized.

 

I bring up some of the nonsense he spewed during the affair and he looks thunderstruck....cannot even believe that horrible man was him...yet, after dday, he was...he truly was....and so was she....until we spoke. I wasn't real to her until I tracked her down and we spoke.

 

The cruelty assauges the guilt that allws them to have and continue the affair. You, have to made the villain

 

It's all bs, having NOTHING to do with the real you. DON't frget that fact.

[ShatteredLady]

Quote - "I bring up some of the nonsense he spewed during the affair and he looks thunderstruck....cannot even believe that horrible man was him..."

 

THIS!!! Exactly!! I completely agree with you. He had to kick me in the gutter to put her on a pedastal.

I believe that my H can't handle the guilt. In hindsight I knew exactly when they started talking again...it's exactly the week he started to be cruel & thoughtless. I was just too depressed & run-down at the time to think logically about what was going on. I believed him. Blamed & hated myself for being so unlovable, such a burden to everyone who loved me.

 

The 'problem' is now we're back to 'normal'. There's nothing to call him out on Mrs Adams.

I honestly believe he doesn't FEEL, truly comprehend how much he damaged me for ALL that time. This mean little person inside of me wants him to know the utter devastation of being attacked by YOUR PERSON at the lowest point when you truly need them. It's terrifying!

Edited October 14, 2015 by ShatteredLady

[Mrs. John Adams]

Quote - "I bring up some of the nonsense he spewed during the affair and he looks thunderstruck....cannot even believe that horrible man was him..."

 

THIS!!! Exactly!! I completely agree with you. He had to kick me in the gutter to put her on a pedastal.

I believe that my H can't handle the guilt. In hindsight I knew exactly when they started talking again...it's exactly the week he started to be cruel & thoughtless. I was just too depressed & run-down at the time to think logically about what was going on. I believed him. Blamed & hated myself for being so unlovable, such a burden to everyone who loved me.

 

The 'problem' is now we're back to 'normal'. There's nothing to call him out on Mrs Adams.

I honestly believe he doesn't FEEL, truly comprehend how much he damaged me for ALL that time. This mean little person inside of me wants him to know the utter devastation of being attacked by YOUR PERSON at the lowest point when you truly need them. It's terrifying!

 

Boy...you girls tell it like it is and i appreciate your honesty

 

i was horrible...i was vile...i was cruel....He had to kick me in the gutter to put her on a pedestal. I did this.....to the only person who ever loved me....

 

I asked my husband to dress spiffy...I asked him to comb his hair differently...I asked him to get contacts...I said the om was better looking than he was

 

do you understand...how now...i cannot stand what i had become? this woman...is not the woman i was before...and she is not the woman i am now

 

I am not asking you to be sympathetic...I am trying to get you to see that somehow....we became someone else.

 

when your spouse tells you he doesn't recognize the man he became....he means it....and here's the kicker...we don't know how it happened

 

and we don't know how we could take the person we love and convince them that it is their fault

 

SL...you did nothing wrong do you hear me? It was not you.....you did not change...you were the one who remained loyal and faithful..you were the one thing he could always count on

 

 

john said to me tonight in the hot tub....it was not a question of how could i live with you...it was how could i live without you

 

 

How could you live without me? After what i have done?

 

and this is why you stay ....because how can you live without him...no matter what he has done

 

he does not deserve you...I do not deserve john

 

i am humbled...to my knees in gratefulness...I am so sorry.....beyond any words i can write....

[HopeForTomorrow]

...I do not deserve john

 

i am humbled...to my knees in gratefulness...I am so sorry.....beyond any words i can write....

 

I am sorry, Mrs JA, but I think this is nonsense.

 

You certainly DO deserve Mr JA. You made a mistake as a very young woman with another person, and you married the only person you ever dated. It was decades ago. You and he have worked through it. He even had a revenge affair, even if it wasn't physical - he still did. Is he perfect? No. None of us are.

 

You should stop being humbled and on your knees with gratefulness. It's been DECADES. You are on equal footing now, but to be honest, your posts just seem like you are constantly CONSTANTLY being held to the fire for this and it hasn't gone away. I get that it never goes away, but at some point - which happened (in my opinion) LONG AGO for you and John, you both became on equal footing. He CHOSE to reconcile and that means that you need to get up off those knees in gratefulness and sorrow already. NOT saying that you won't always be remorseful; it is different.

 

I think you have paid a very high price for a very many years for your A, and I just don't get the feeling that you will ever feel on equal footing to him. I find that sad.

Edited October 14, 2015 by HopeForTomorrow

[Mrs. John Adams]

I am sorry, Mrs JA, but I think this is nonsense.

 

You certainly DO deserve Mr JA. You made a mistake as a very young woman who married the only person she ever dated. It was decades ago. You and he have worked through it. He even had a revenge affair, even if it wasn't physical - he still did. Is he perfect? No. None of us are.

 

You should stop being humbled and on your knees with gratefulness. It's been DECADES. You are on equal footing now, but to be honest, your posts just seem like you are constantly CONSTANTLY being held to the fire for this and it hasn't gone away. I get that it never goes away, but at some point - which happened (in my opinion) LONG AGO for you and John, you both became on equal footing. He CHOSE to reconcile and that means that you need to get up off those knees in gratefulness and sorrow already.

 

I think you have paid a very high price for a very many years for your A, and I just don't get the feeling that you will ever feel on equal footing to him. I find that sad.

 

oh my.....i thank you for your support...but

 

Please understand something....my John NEVER makes me feel that i am not his equal....he never holds me to the fire.....please please please...do not think that john does not treat me fairly.

 

But sometimes in the stories i read and i see how vile the waywards are and i see myself in their stories...I know i did the very same things. It breaks my heart to know i was that cruel.

 

I hear the pain in SL and i think that i am just as vile as her husband...i did and said the very same things to my husband.

 

I never want anyone to think that i hold myself above anyone else.

My purpose is to try to give the betrayed here the waywards perspective...to help them to understand what the mindset was and is...

 

 

John has treated me like a princess....and if i have ever given the impression he has been mean to me....i apologize

He is very good to me....and i am a very good wife to him....a damn good wife to him.....an excellent wife to him...and i always have been...except for a very short period of time.

[lovinDKT3]

I am sorry, Mrs JA, but I think this is nonsense.

 

You certainly DO deserve Mr JA. You made a mistake as a very young woman with another person, and you married the only person you ever dated. It was decades ago. You and he have worked through it. He even had a revenge affair, even if it wasn't physical - he still did. Is he perfect? No. None of us are.

 

You should stop being humbled and on your knees with gratefulness. It's been DECADES. You are on equal footing now, but to be honest, your posts just seem like you are constantly CONSTANTLY being held to the fire for this and it hasn't gone away. I get that it never goes away, but at some point - which happened (in my opinion) LONG AGO for you and John, you both became on equal footing. He CHOSE to reconcile and that means that you need to get up off those knees in gratefulness and sorrow already. NOT saying that you won't always be remorseful; it is different.

 

I think you have paid a very high price for a very many years for your A, and I just don't get the feeling that you will ever feel on equal footing to him. I find that sad.

 

Its a slight over statement but it's similar to doing something really stupid that almost cost you your life but some how pulled through. When do you stop being thankful for the second chance?

 

Mr JA could have walked away and never looked back. DKT could have not humbled himself enough to accept what I did and decide to stick his hand back in the fire. No one would blame them, least of all me or Mrs JA (Mrs JA sorry for speaking for you).

 

I too did some disgusting things, and the man standing in front of me is a changed man. Harder, less forgiving, less trusting. How do you put a time limit on being thankful?

 

As far as being on equal footing, DKT has never treated me like less then. There is no dire t connection between being thankful and humble and being less then equal.

[MuddyFootprints]

I wasn't just cruel, I was downright hateful.

 

And, I'll be the first to admit, I'm a difficult wife. Much more difficult than I was pre-affair.

 

Ain't no lumps under our rugs anymore.

 

[Mrs. John Adams]

Its a slight over statement but it's similar to doing something really stupid that almost cost you your life but some how pulled through. When do you stop being thankful for the second chance?

 

Mr JA could have walked away and never looked back. DKT could have not humbled himself enough to accept what I did and decide to stick his hand back in the fire. No one would blame them, least of all me or Mrs JA (Mrs JA sorry for speaking for you).

 

I too did some disgusting things, and the man standing in front of me is a changed man. Harder, less forgiving, less trusting. How do you put a time limit on being thankful?

 

As far as being on equal footing, DKT has never treated me like less then. There is no dire t connection between being thankful and humble and being less then equal.

 

thank you...i could not think not think of a more eloquent way of saying this

 

I will not apologize for who i am ....i am indeed grateful...that my husband chose to remain my husband in spite of what i have done. We both have made many mistakes....but i will NEVER forget that he could have kicked me to the curb.

He did not...and he has given me a wonderful life...and i did not deserve it.

I deserve it now...because i have lived the last thirty two years being the wife i should have been in the first place.

We both went to bed tonight with sadness....we delved deep into our past to share what was a very painful time. For those of you who think it should just disappear and go away...maybe in a perfect world it does...but those little reminders of things done and said creep back in and rear its ugly little heads...they remind you of where you have been

 

 

But i want to tell you where we are today. A couple.....with two amazing children and 5 wonderful grandchildren.... who only look at mawmaw and pawpaw and see two people as one.

 

Infidelity hurts...and it is not fair.

You can choose to let it define you or you can choose to live life to its fullest in spite of it.

Either path is difficult...divorce or reconciliation...and scars remain in either case.

 

We have chosen to fight the demons together....you may chose to fight them alone.

 

Either way....we can win.

[HopeForTomorrow]

Its a slight over statement but it's similar to doing something really stupid that almost cost you your life but some how pulled through. When do you stop being thankful for the second chance?

 

I don't think it's about not being thankful for that second chance after some timeline in the sand. I was referring more to Mrs JA's way of posting, which may be just that.

 

Mr JA could have walked away and never looked back. DKT could have not humbled himself enough to accept what I did and decide to stick his hand back in the fire. No one would blame them, least of all me or Mrs JA (Mrs JA sorry for speaking for you).

 

True enough. Mr JA never stopped loving or wanting Mrs JA. DKT never stopped, ever, wanting to be with you forever. That is my belief from what I have read. It was just a really long process of years to deal with the A and your remorse for it.

 

I too did some disgusting things, and the man standing in front of me is a changed man. Harder, less forgiving, less trusting. How do you put a time limit on being thankful?

 

You don't. And you won't ever need to.

[Mr Blunt]

Mrs. JA, I am glad that you informed and invited me to join this forum; it does seem better in many ways than the others. I guess I was so used to the other forum that I called someone a troll here in one of my first few posts and got reprimanded and moderated for a few days. That is cool, now I know a little bit about how the moderators respond; they were right and I was wrong. I LIKE this place!

 

By Mrs. JA

I would like to ask you. Do you think there will ever be a time in your relationship...where you might discuss things with your wife again?

Do you think....you could ask her to read the MacDonald book? Do you think...that the affair is now far enough removed....that her heart may have changed?

I have tried several times to get her involved with a forum like this ( I have been a member on 5 forums) but it is obvious that she does not like this kind of discussion. Coincidently, just a few days ago, we were discussing things we would consider doing at out church and I said that I was considering getting involved in a class of married couples to discuss marriage issues. She stated very strongly that she was not one bit interested so I dropped the subject. She does not usually speak that strongly but for this topic she did. I got her message loud and clear.

 

 

 

 

For me to ask her to read the McDonald book would probably backfire on me. One of her excuses for having an affair was that I was too controlling so anything that I suggest she takes the wrong way. That excuse got me real upset back then because I thought that I had done something to cause the affair; I do not believe that for a minute now. Besides, I am now at the point that I am comfortable enough that I can be satisfied without her progressing in our recovery. I love talking about issues on marriage that is vital to the joy in marriage but I know that she is the opposite; does not like to talk about “heavy issues”. She is like that in other things also not just the affair issue. In the very distant past I have called that the ostrich approach.

 

 

I do not think that her heart has changed that much because she was like that when we married 40+ years ago. She will only face real tough issues when she is forced and she hates to be forced.

 

Mrs. JA, you are one great big empathy heart with a lot of moxy! I know you desperately want to see others get to the point in their marriage that you are (grade of an A). You are a born counselor! Thank you my dear friend for trying so hard to help us. I have tried in diplomatic ways to do what you want for us to do but I could not get much going and so I have settled for a good recovery and do not have that strong of a desire to go for the great marriage anymore.

 

I really like your style Mrs. JA, but I have learned to settle for a B in marriage because I have other interests that fill the gap. I have my children and grandchildren that want to be around me all the time and my oldest grandson is an adult and he comes to get me all the time to watch his favorite TV programs ( all 4 of them) together. That is such a compliment to me that I can feast on that for weeks, no months!

 

 

 

God has blessed me with great parents even though my dad passed away last year. My 90 year old mom and I go to lunch almost every day and she has worked with me for over40 years! We have never had a serious falling out. My employees tell me that I am the best boss they ever had and we run a very successful operation. If I do not remain humble I will get a big head! I know that I am fortunate and that it is not all because of me and my efforts.The fact that you are so concerned about us gives me an warm feeling.

 

My wife is good person and I do not want to see her hurt anymore so I just will enjoy our good marriage for now. We still get in each other’s face about once or twice a year but we always make up.

 

By Mrs. JA

I finally understood....

….but empathy is not just a feeling...it is an action.

 

Mrs. JA, if you ever write down the DETAILS of how you got to the point of empathy in action, I hope you will share as it would be a GREAT read!

Su amigo

Blunt

[Mrs. John Adams]

Mr Blunt...I understand and thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.

 

Hopefortomorrow...you certainly know an awful lot about our story, for having just joined this site a couple of days ago. I thank you for your input and it gave me something to think about.

[merrmeade]

Mrs. JA, I am glad that you informed and invited me to join this forum; it does seem better in many ways than the others. I guess I was so used to the other forum that I called someone a troll here in one of my first few posts and got reprimanded and moderated for a few days. That is cool, now I know a little bit about how the moderators respond; they were right and I was wrong. I LIKE this place!

 

I have tried several times to get her involved with a forum like this ( I have been a member on 5 forums) but it is obvious that she does not like this kind of discussion. Coincidently, just a few days ago, we were discussing things we would consider doing at out church and I said that I was considering getting involved in a class of married couples to discuss marriage issues. She stated very strongly that she was not one bit interested so I dropped the subject. She does not usually speak that strongly but for this topic she did. I got her message loud and clear.

 

 

 

 

For me to ask her to read the McDonald book would probably backfire on me. One of her excuses for having an affair was that I was too controlling so anything that I suggest she takes the wrong way. That excuse got me real upset back then because I thought that I had done something to cause the affair; I do not believe that for a minute now. Besides, I am now at the point that I am comfortable enough that I can be satisfied without her progressing in our recovery. I love talking about issues on marriage that is vital to the joy in marriage but I know that she is the opposite; does not like to talk about “heavy issues”. She is like that in other things also not just the affair issue. In the very distant past I have called that the ostrich approach.

 

 

I do not think that her heart has changed that much because she was like that when we married 40+ years ago. She will only face real tough issues when she is forced and she hates to be forced.

 

Mrs. JA, you are one great big empathy heart with a lot of moxy! I know you desperately want to see others get to the point in their marriage that you are (grade of an A). You are a born counselor! Thank you my dear friend for trying so hard to help us. I have tried in diplomatic ways to do what you want for us to do but I could not get much going and so I have settled for a good recovery and do not have that strong of a desire to go for the great marriage anymore.

 

I really like your style Mrs. JA, but I have learned to settle for a B in marriage because I have other interests that fill the gap. I have my children and grandchildren that want to be around me all the time and my oldest grandson is an adult and he comes to get me all the time to watch his favorite TV programs ( all 4 of them) together. That is such a compliment to me that I can feast on that for weeks, no months!

 

 

 

God has blessed me with great parents even though my dad passed away last year. My 90 year old mom and I go to lunch almost every day and she has worked with me for over40 years! We have never had a serious falling out. My employees tell me that I am the best boss they ever had and we run a very successful operation. If I do not remain humble I will get a big head! I know that I am fortunate and that it is not all because of me and my efforts.The fact that you are so concerned about us gives me an warm feeling.

 

My wife is good person and I do not want to see her hurt anymore so I just will enjoy our good marriage for now. We still get in each other’s face about once or twice a year but we always make up.

 

 

 

Mrs. JA, if you ever write down the DETAILS of how you got to the point of empathy in action, I hope you will share as it would be a GREAT read!

Su amigo

Blunt

Mr. B, we have a few things in common if tendencies only, but on this one, I'm going to back Mrs. JA up about the book. Have you read it yourself?

 

Perhaps you've gotten a feel for how uniquely damaged my H is. Like your wife, he HATES discussion of the affair (or affairS), appears to crumple and shuts down. The ONLY time he was open, verbally "in" and articulating remorse and commitment to helping me heal was right after reading that book. He was even on the verge of telling me everything but didn't quite make it. That itself was the turning point back, but my point is that the book almost had him there. I don't think your wife or many WSs have the problems he has; he's a case unto himself. But if such a recalcitrant, bottled up WS can be moved and feel positive about helping his spouse heal, then any WS can and it's worth putting yourself out there to ask. My 2 cents.

[wmacbride]

There was a lot that he did that was cruel, but one of the worst things was the way he tried to turn everything I did around so that everything was wrong. It made me feel crazy.

 

He also accused me of cheating on him. His ow told him that she had seen me with another man, and he believed her.

[merrmeade]

I am sorry, Mrs JA, but I think this is nonsense.

 

You certainly DO deserve Mr JA. You made a mistake as a very young woman with another person, and you married the only person you ever dated. It was decades ago. You and he have worked through it. He even had a revenge affair, even if it wasn't physical - he still did. Is he perfect? No. None of us are.

 

You should stop being humbled and on your knees with gratefulness. It's been DECADES. You are on equal footing now, but to be honest, your posts just seem like you are constantly CONSTANTLY being held to the fire for this and it hasn't gone away. I get that it never goes away, but at some point - which happened (in my opinion) LONG AGO for you and John, you both became on equal footing. He CHOSE to reconcile and that means that you need to get up off those knees in gratefulness and sorrow already. NOT saying that you won't always be remorseful; it is different.

 

I think you have paid a very high price for a very many years for your A, and I just don't get the feeling that you will ever feel on equal footing to him. I find that sad.

 

I don't think it's about not being thankful for that second chance after some timeline in the sand. I was referring more to Mrs JA's way of posting, which may be just that.

 

True enough. Mr JA never stopped loving or wanting Mrs JA. DKT never stopped, ever, wanting to be with you forever. That is my belief from what I have read. It was just a really long process of years to deal with the A and your remorse for it.

 

You don't. And you won't ever need to.

I understand where HFT is coming from but want to address a couple of points.

 

First of all, I think it's important to address this using names because we're talking about a kind of voice in the forum and reactions to it, so I hope this will be read in that light. I really think that much can be gained from helping people understand how we help each other! (If I succeed in getting this across...) So here goes...

 

I'll confess that, after the first initial gush of surprise and appreciation for the piercingly accurate articulation of Mrs. JA's remorse, I questioned some of the same points you've expressed. It was a ONS. It's been decades. They clearly have overturned every possible aspect of the affair and its aftermath. How does she identify with my WS, for example?

 

I think you will see if you read the contexts of her posts and read Mr JA's posts carefully. In general, you don't know anyone else's story, motives or mindset, past or present, until you've read all their posts or threads and, in this case, her partner's posts. If you do, I think you will find out that, although it's been decades since the A, it's only been a few years since she had the "epiphany" from the MacDonald book. You will also find out that Mr & Mrs are One in their thinking and understanding; they complete and complement each other's posts at times. When unfairly targeted, he's swooped to her defense (forum enforcement right behind). But mostly you should be able to discern that Mr JA is not coercing her into this position. Quite the opposite. It is her genuine, unselfish love for him that "constantly" (in your words) brings her back to this place of humble apology. It is precisely BECAUSE she loves and appreciates him so deeply that she cannot believe she hurt him in such a callous way. Her extreme (to you and to me at one point) and 'constant' expression of remorse is real and comes from her, not him. It is pre-emptive, perhaps, in case he may trigger - which they have fully confirmed did happen for years before she owned her culpability in the way you currently see it - but usually it's just her, rejecting and vilifying the person who committed that one beastly blow to her spouse's trust and love for her.

 

What, perhaps, you don't get, HFT, is that Mrs JA does not identify with that person any more. And that is the point. Personally, I think more should be said about this part of the psychological transformation that makes a cheater a remorseful healer of his/her spouse. It's why my H cannot go there. He still identifies himself with the cheater. But Mrs JA has transcended to this place of redemption precisely because she threw the cheater out. She demonizes and despises that person, but she is NOT doing that to herself.

 

Moreover, she's helped a LOT of people. Just read. She has the ability to identify commonalities with others' experience when she shares her experience AND the ability to articulate the logic and the feeling. Not sure (bc she hasn't addressed this much) but I've wondered if maybe it's a self-imposed act of redemption or something but doesn't matter (that's personal - not my business). Just saying WHY I think it helps people.

 

She is also not the only one - thank goodness - who's able to share her R experience, and I'm not pinning a medal or saying it's more important than any other. I'm also not saying I want to be her or my husband be Mr JA, or even that I agree with everything she says. At different times and certainly from different kinds of reconciliations, other people have posted from this perspective but in their way, but if I won't acknowledge by name. I mean, LS has been here a long time and I've only read one forum off and on since 2012, so odds are there's been somebody at any given time taking the time to comment from that perspective. I remember when I first came and was directed to a particular poster who'd 'made it to the other side.' She had a different voice but gave the same hope.

 

I hope this helps you understand better, HFT, there's more than you've uncovered. I'm glad you qualified your opinion because, indeed, "from what [you] have read" there's a great deal missing.

 

Also wanted to say that - imho - it's a lot harder to agree or disagree with somebody not knowing whether or not there's story behind an opinion and the person has earned his/her own stripes in the war to survive infidelity. Just sayin...

Edited October 14, 2015 by merrmeade

[Mrs. John Adams]

Merrmeade,

 

I am in complete and utter awe of your post. You absolutely do understand who i am and why i am this person.

 

Mr. JA is a very quiet unselfish man. He has always been content with "normal".

He is not competitive...doesn't like to play games. He plugs along one step at a time.... He is very laid back and easy going. He is analytical. He is negative...or as he calls it...a realist.

 

I am a spitfire. I am competitive....love playing games. I am outgoing. I am extremely emotional. I am a romantic. I am positive.

 

We are complete opposites. The amazing thing about our couple dynamics is that we compliment each other so well.

 

We had been married 11 wonderful years when i hurt him. We were completely and totally in love. He was so blindsided by what i did that he was in complete shock. At first...he was pretty silent about what i did. He made the decision to allow me to stay but he did not make a ton of demands.

 

I knew even then...that he had given me a gift....and i immediately became transparent about everything. I began right then to try to rebuild the trust i had destroyed.

 

After a while....when we would discuss things...and i tried to blame shift...(yes we all do it) he would deflect my untruths and my blame from him right back on to me. It was the only time i can remember him ever demanding anything from me.

 

I gave to him all the thing i thought i needed to give him. We all know it was not enough....but my point is this.

 

He does not demand things of me.... i demand them of myself. I keep me humble....and i do this because i never want to forget the woman i became...if only for a short time. I never want to get so comfortable within myself that i once again say...I would never have an affair...because i know i did. I deeply and passionately love my husband...and yet i hurt him in a way no spouse should ever have to endure. I am happy to be able to show him how grateful i am for his forgiveness.

 

I do not live a life of crawling around on my belly worshiping him.....but my attitude is... i would gladly do it if that is what he needed me to do.

 

I realize that i may come across subservient....which is so opposite of the person i am. We are equal partners....and he treats me just like i treat him.

 

I appreciate your post....mostly because i do think you understand me....almost better than i understand myself. I try very hard to be as honest about our situation as i can....because how can i help you to understand the mind of a wayward if i am not honest about it.

 

I am not saying that the way we have handled my affair is the right way. There are many roads to success...this is the one we chose to walk down....and i never want to sound like i think it is the only way. that's why i say over and over...there is no right or wrong answer. There is the answer that is right for you.

 

If i can just give you one little slice of my mind that helps you to understand your wayward a little better....

If i can just give you one little ounce of hope....

If i can give you a shoulder to lean on for just a minute....to tell you i understand...to support you in your choices and your decisions....and sometimes to be brutally honest that you may be headed for trouble...

 

that's why i am here...and the wonderful thing about my being here is that you get my husbands side as well...he doesn't say much....but what he says he says with conviction. He too has a compassionate heart...i am a witness to that.

[remorseful_tab]

There were many cruel things I did. But most of them were due to the guilt I was feeling when I faced him. I blew him of when he suggested we go out, I rejected his advances, I gave him short, terminal answers if he wanted to initiate a talk, I lashed out at him about things that were not his fault, I blamed him for neglecting me....

 

One thing comes back to haunt me the most. I was rejecting my H all the time during my affair. We hadn't had sex for a few months. One night when he was rubbing my back, I said to him "I guess its time to reset the clock. Go ahead. Do it". (I did not remember these exact words this when my H finally confronted me. But it was burned in his head. He never forgot that. As they say oppressor can forget but the victim never forgets). My H immediately took his hand from me. And he turned around. The worst part is I did not even comfort him them. I probably felt a relief that I would not have sex with him.

 

Shame on me! After typing this I cried.

 

But I remember after that it was a few more months where we did not have sex. Infact after that H completely stopped making advances. When one day I felt "pity" on him, I initiated.

 

After getting caught, H told me all of this and he felt the dirtiest in his life the day after we had sex after so many months and the cruelty I showed him in between.

 

I deserve everything that he has given me during our separation. I will never forgive the person I was and what I did to the love of my life and the father of my son.

[Mrs. John Adams]

There were many cruel things I did. But most of them were due to the guilt I was feeling when I faced him. I blew him of when he suggested we go out, I rejected his advances, I gave him short, terminal answers if he wanted to initiate a talk, I lashed out at him about things that were not his fault, I blamed him for neglecting me....

 

One thing comes back to haunt me the most. I was rejecting my H all the time during my affair. We hadn't had sex for a few months. One night when he was rubbing my back, I said to him "I guess its time to reset the clock. Go ahead. Do it". (I did not remember these exact words this when my H finally confronted me. But it was burned in his head. He never forgot that. As they say oppressor can forget but the victim never forgets). My H immediately took his hand from me. And he turned around. The worst part is I did not even comfort him them. I probably felt a relief that I would not have sex with him.

 

Shame on me! After typing this I cried.

 

But I remember after that it was a few more months where we did not have sex. Infact after that H completely stopped making advances. When one day I felt "pity" on him, I initiated.

 

After getting caught, H told me all of this and he felt the dirtiest in his life the day after we had sex after so many months and the cruelty I showed him in between.

 

I deserve everything that he has given me during our separation. I will never forgive the person I was and what I did to the love of my life and the father of my son.

 

the bolded....weird how that works...but it is true. Which is why i had my husband write down the horrible things i said....so i don't forget where i have been.

[Cloudcuckoo]

My husband, after my discovery of his prolific entertainment of Internet 'ladies' (I use the term loosely), witnessed his wife crumble before him and turned his back. I remember at the time I even drove myself (much to the horror of my GP) to the surgery to get help. Our then 12 year old daughter had asked her father why mum was shaking and wasn't talking ....

 

I had a major breakdown requiring in house treatment from the shock of it all. He was actually two years into his affair at the time, although my conscious mind would not let me acknowledge any impropriety other than his increasing addiction to porn and interactive 'date' sites.

 

The man was just awful back then. I just didn't know why....

 

These days he is unrecognisable as that cruel and selfish individual, thank goodness.

[Mr Blunt]

BY Merremeade

Mr. B, we have a few things in common if tendencies only, but on this one, I'm going to back Mrs. JA up about the book. Have you read it yourself?

 

Perhaps you've gotten a feel for how uniquely damaged my H is. Like your wife, he HATES discussion of the affair (or affairS), appears to crumple and shuts down. The ONLY time he was open, verbally "in" and articulating remorse and commitment to helping me heal was right after reading that book. He was even on the verge of telling me everything but didn't quite make it. That itself was the turning point back, but my point is that the book almost had him there. I don't think your wife or many WSs have the problems he has; he's a case unto himself. But if such a recalcitrant, bottled up WS can be moved and feel positive about helping his spouse heal, then any WS can and it's worth putting yourself out there to ask. My 2 cents.

 

I have not read the “MacDonald book”. Can you give me the full title and all the other information so that I can order it?

 

Merremeade

You want to help me and my wife and that alone is worth a whole lot more than 2 cents!

[Mrs. John Adams]

How to help your spouse heal from your affair...Linda Macdonald

How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair A Compact Manual By Linda MacDonald

 

 

This is a free download

[merrmeade]

I have not read the “MacDonald book”. Can you give me the full title and all the other information so that I can order it?

 

Merremeade

You want to help me and my wife and that alone is worth a whole lot more than 2 cents!

if you mean you appreciate that I'm slugging away with everyone else trying to understand and explain the good, the bad and the rotten in this, then thanks but frankly I think i help myself more than anyone - just organizing thoughts into words. But I really believe that no one of us would be enough help for anyone. It's the amalgam of experiences and perspectives that helps OPs imo and keeps each one in charge of his/her own life choices. Besides, I will allow that I 'get' some things well enough to comment, but I can't even get my husband to first base much less tell someone else how to get to second!

[merrmeade]

And what I meant, Mr B, was that you should give the book AND maybe MC a try (again?). It also depends on your wife. I mean your ex-therapist would surely tell us the same thing - not to talk about it UNLESS my H agreed to do IC. OTherwise the whole thing is a waste of money, time and hope.

 

Anyway, what does it hurt to ask your wife to read it?