cruelty during the affair.

[qubist]

A few years ago my WW and I had a free evening together without our son as my MIL said she would take him overnight so we could go out. She lives 50 miles away so we drove down to her place, dropped our son off and went to dinner. Later we went home and spent some time together and were up until almost 3AM. We slept in the next day and woke late in the morning a left to go pick up our son from MIL’s house. Both of us were hungry so we stopped at a popular fast food burger place by her house and picked up some food for everyone. While I was waiting in line my WW fainted behind me and fell face first to the ground. I turned around to see lying on her back with a contusion the size of a golf ball on her forehead and looking dazed. A man who saw what happened called 911 on his cellphone and the Paramedics were there in a matter of a few minutes. After they stabilized her I took her to a hospital that happened to be across the street and we spent the afternoon there while they ran different tests on her. By the next day the bump on her forehead was gone but it left her with a black eye and bruises on her forehead and face.

 

The following Tuesday she went into work and was confronted by a couple of her coworkers out of concern about what had happened to her and she told them of her ordeal. She did joke before she went to work that Tuesday that people were going to think I beat her up and I told her that I didn’t think that was very funny. A friend of ours at her work called her into his office and asked her if she was OK and said he wanted to make sure that I had not hit her. She assured him that she was fine and that everything happened as she said. She also posted on Facebook about what had happened and how we ended up spending the entire Saturday at the hospital.

 

Last year after D-Day I ran into the wife of the AP that she was involved with at the time of her accident. She told me that my WW told her husband (the AP) that I had assaulted her. She said at the time she was very surprised to hear my WW’s claim of assault and wondered why I would do it. I immediately knew what incident she was referring to. I confronted my WW about this and she denied ever making such a claim. She went back and asked her coworker what had prompted him to question her about the accident two years before and he admitted that the AP had come to him at work and told him that he did not believe my wife’s story and thought I had beat her up.

 

A few months ago I was going through some old files and backups on my laptop and I stumbled across an old backup of my wife’s smartphone. In the Pictures folder were a bunch of photos taken the Tuesday night following her accident the previous Saturday that was of her face and forehead. The pictures were primarily close-ups of her injuries with one showing her whole face; much like the photos a person would take of themselves to document an assault.

 

Even though my wife’s accident happened in public where there were many witnesses, there were medical reports and bills from the Paramedics and the Hospital, and my in-laws knew as well what had happened, my WW and her AP attempted to turn that incident into an assault on her by me.

Are you still with her?

[Whatnotagain]

Yes. I did not know about the photos until recently and we had discussed the incident with our MC's and IC's as we were working towards reconciliation. She had assured me that she did not know why the AP was making these claims to our friend and his own wife when there was so much evidence to the contrary. Then I find these photos more than a year later and I am thinking, WTF!

[road]

Yes. I did not know about the photos until recently and we had discussed the incident with our MC's and IC's as we were working towards reconciliation. She had assured me that she did not know why the AP was making these claims to our friend and his own wife when there was so much evidence to the contrary. Then I find these photos more than a year later and I am thinking, WTF!

 

 

Many WW's tell so many lying during her affair, then more lies after D day, that for some they can't remember all the lies that they said. Specially as the years roll by.

[nightmare01]

WW told her OM that I was abusive. That I beat, berated, and even raped her. NONE OF THAT WAS EVEN CLOSE TO THE TRUTH. Actually during the affair she was the one with the temper - she threw things, broke some of my things, and constantly screamed at me.

 

All this made me positively nuts.

 

Now I realize that it was all a lie she was telling her OM to get sympathy from him. A way to get more attention.

[Mr Blunt]

For those of you who are reconciled or going through the reconciliation - did your spouse offer explanation or expressed remorse about those cruel moments?

 

No she did not. On a few occasions, when things would go bad in our family, she would say that she felt that her actions were the reason. I told her that our children’s choices as adults are their choices and not because of her failure. I know that she has stated on several occasions that she does not have good self-esteem but that comes from a multitude of factors not just her betrayal to the family and goes way back to her childhood and early teens. She tells me at times that I have very good self-esteem; I do not think that I have very good self-esteem but just normal and that probably looks great to someone that has low self-esteem.

 

 

At a certain point my counselor told me to not bring up the affair and I have not brought it up for over 20 years. I do not know if that was the right thing to do or not I just know that we have a fairly good recovery; not great but good most of the time. I have worked at building myself up so that I do not have to depend on her expressed remorse. I am sure that if she did express the remorse verbally that it would help but I cannot depend on that. I know that she regrets her actions and it has damaged her but she is not the kind to talk about deep hurts. Although words can be helpful I always go by actions more than words.

 

 

I am very fortunate and I have nuclear family and parents and sister that think highly of me and show it with actions. In addition, I have been blessed by God and witnessed His mercy and grace.

[road]

 

At a certain point my counselor told me to not bring up the affair and I have not brought it up for over 20 years. I do not know if that was the right thing to do or not I just know that we have a fairly good recovery

 

 

Once all of the BS's questions have been answered there is no reason to take about the affair. All talking does is keep the memories of the affair fresh for the WS and the BS. Recovery can not happen with those conditions.

 

 

Yes 30 years later the WS or BS can trigger about the affair though best to let the moment pass then to talk about it.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I disagree....I think talking about feelings has to continue....and especially for the wayward...talking about emotions and hurts...keeps it real.

 

I am not saying talking about details and blame....I mean talking about feelings and emotions.

 

The affair never goes away....but it is no longer the focal point....but the communication has to remain.

[merrmeade]

I disagree....I think talking about feelings has to continue....and especially for the wayward...talking about emotions and hurts...keeps it real.

 

I am not saying talking about details and blame....I mean talking about feelings and emotions.

 

The affair never goes away....but it is no longer the focal point....but the communication has to remain.

But it's not so simple. There's an art and a skill to this kind of talking, which maybe Mr & Mrs JA don't even realize they've mastered (or maybe you do). It's not just listing emotions and hurts. since the WS maybe feels the emotions and hurts that drove the affair are just as valid as the BS's following the affair.

 

It's only possible if each partner is able to listen, feel and effectively acknowledge what the other communicates. Both partners have to, first of all, believe in the importance of such talk, and both partners must have the ability to look at and talk about themselves and their past actions honestly and without shutting down. And THEN, both partners must be able to accurately and fully acknowledge each others' emotions and hurts so each feels understanding, compassion and remorse where appropriate. And 'where appropriate' must be mutually agreed upon.

 

Otherwise, counseling is needed. I thought MC would help us put all the emotions and hurts in perspective, but WH just had too far to go before I would have gotten any relief. I was in so much pain and so debilitated there was no waiting around for YEARS and so went to IC for myself. He stopped talking.

--------

So, in general, I can see how this conversation about 'cruelty during the affair' helps the BS feel solidarity, gain better understanding of the 'cruelty' — but wonder who and how many are having this conversation in real life. How many WSs are willing and ABLE to have this conversation?

[Mrs. John Adams]

But it's not so simple. There's an art and a skill to this kind of talking, which maybe Mr & Mrs JA don't even realize they've mastered (or maybe you do). It's not just listing emotions and hurts. since the WS maybe feels the emotions and hurts that drove the affair are just as valid as the BS's following the affair.

 

It's only possible if each partner is able to listen, feel and effectively acknowledge what the other communicates. Both partners have to, first of all, believe in the importance of such talk, and both partners must have the ability to look at and talk about themselves and their past actions honestly and without shutting down. And THEN, both partners must be able to accurately and fully acknowledge each others' emotions and hurts so each feels understanding, compassion and remorse where appropriate. And 'where appropriate' must be mutually agreed upon.

 

Otherwise, counseling is needed. I thought MC would help us put all the emotions and hurts in perspective, but WH just had too far to go before I would have gotten any relief. I was in so much pain and so debilitated there was no waiting around for YEARS and so went to IC for myself. He stopped talking.

--------

So, in general, I can see how this conversation about 'cruelty during the affair' helps the BS feel solidarity, gain better understanding of the 'cruelty' — but wonder who and how many are having this conversation in real life. How many WSs are willing and ABLE to have this conversation?

 

I agree with you....there are ways to approach any difficult subject.

 

There has to come a time of "discussing" that is no longer "threatening" to either party...and i will tell you..it took me MANY years to be able to have "healing" conversations.

 

I think we have come to a place of almost looking at it third party....we can discuss it without being accusing....

 

You know how at first....the wayward lists the reasons...right? Well YOU were doing this or you WERE NOT doing that...and I felt this...on and on. and Each time that happens....it stabs the Betrayed in the heart...because what they want to hear is....I DID...I DID NOT.........

 

Those excuses and reasons all sound like blame shifting...because they are.

 

And hopefully...there will come a time when the wayward sees what it is they are doing....and the conversation changes.....now it is no longer accusatory...now it is accepting.....now it is healing....because the wayward steps up to the plate. The words are no longer selfish.

 

This kind of conversation is enlightening....because we both learn more about each other...and the choices made....healing conversation is ALWAYS good.

 

IC and MC are always good ideas...and i think they help the conversations to get to "healing" conversations quicker.

 

Edited to add....we cannot just "pretend" it never happened...it did. We cannot rug sweep...it does have to be addressed....and each couple can and must determine when and how it is to be discussed.

 

Anger has to be dealt with....from both parties.....because any anger will cause the other to retreat. TIME is probably your best friend in any situation. Surgery, death, any tragedy...TIME is the best healer...and while we grow frustrated because it takes TIME....when we look back....we know that time is often one of the most important elements in healing.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Mrs. John Adams

[merrmeade]

Yes, BUT even owning the 'cruelty during the affair' as such - not many WSs get to that point. If they D, they don't have to for sure though sounds like a few do. And few Rs get to the point that the Adams' did and what Mrs. JA just described. So I figure mostly they avoid the memories and the discussion of them even if they say 'sorry' when (if) the BS bothers to bring it up. I'm pretty cynical about WSs' stepping up to the plate in this regard.

[Mrs. John Adams]

And I agree.....

 

I have met many people on this forum and others that come to a place of settling....they get enough from their wayward spouse....to have some trust and some comfort....but they would love to see more...get more...receive more.

My own dear husband was one who lived with that need and that want for many years.....

 

And how do you know you will ever receive what you are looking for? You don't.

So your love, your forgiveness, must cover...what your wayward lacks.

 

Some cannot and will not wait...and make the decision that it is better to divorce....and God love them....that is exactly what they should do!

 

Only you know what you can bear my sweet one....you have endured so much...and would that I could smack your loved up side his head and knock some sense into him...

 

I wish I could make these waywards see the gift they have been given to them by the very one they hurt.....if they could just realize...but sadly many do not...and some like me take forever.....

 

Your husband should worship the ground you walk on....and I am sorry he doesn't.....because you and many others here deserve that and so much more.

My heart is humbled by each story I read....and it makes me love my dear husband even more. It helps me to appreciate what he has done for me.

 

I sometimes think it should be mandatory that each wayward has to read the stories here of betrayal....maybe it would open their eyes and their hearts....

It certainly has helped me to grow in our reconciliation.....and to all of you I owe so much...

[nightmare01]

MJA - all I can say is WOW.

 

I've been on various forums a lot - pretty much since Dday in 2001 - and I've never heard a WS at your level of understanding and compassion. Your husband is a very lucky man.

[Mrs. John Adams]

MJA - all I can say is WOW.

 

I've been on various forums a lot - pretty much since Dday in 2001 - and I've never heard a WS at your level of understanding and compassion. Your husband is a very lucky man.

 

I sincerely thank you....if i can help just one.....i pray for that everyday....please let me be a positive light for those who are touched by infidelity.

 

Infidelity is such a dark place to live....i want everyone to know there is a light...just keep moving toward it.

 

We move at our own pace ....but we can get there.

[DKT3]

MJA - all I can say is WOW.

 

I've been on various forums a lot - pretty much since Dday in 2001 - and I've never heard a WS at your level of understanding and compassion. Your husband is a very lucky man.

 

It took her a long time to get there. I think its part of her warning because most wouldn't be as committed as Mr JA was. Me personally could only make it about 8 months with a WW that simply didn't get it and was looking primarily to protect herself before I shut down and started looking for the off ramp.

 

My fWW has since come a long way and has done everything in her power to help me understand and work on moving past it.

 

My fWW (as I'm sure Mrs JA did also) had issues with the state of the marriage pre-dating the affair but didn't or doesn't use it to justify what they did. I think that is cruel beyond believe to pin it on the betrayed, and a mistake that is repeated here daily.

[merrmeade]

And I agree.....

 

I have met many people on this forum and others that come to a place of settling....they get enough from their wayward spouse....to have some trust and some comfort....but they would love to see more...get more...receive more.

My own dear husband was one who lived with that need and that want for many years.....

 

And how do you know you will ever receive what you are looking for? You don't.

So your love, your forgiveness, must cover...what your wayward lacks.

 

Some cannot and will not wait...and make the decision that it is better to divorce....and God love them....that is exactly what they should do!

 

Only you know what you can bear my sweet one....you have endured so much...and would that I could smack your loved up side his head and knock some sense into him...

 

I wish I could make these waywards see the gift they have been given to them by the very one they hurt.....if they could just realize...but sadly many do not...and some like me take forever.....

 

Your husband should worship the ground you walk on....and I am sorry he doesn't.....because you and many others here deserve that and so much more.

My heart is humbled by each story I read....and it makes me love my dear husband even more. It helps me to appreciate what he has done for me.

 

I sometimes think it should be mandatory that each wayward has to read the stories here of betrayal....maybe it would open their eyes and their hearts....

It certainly has helped me to grow in our reconciliation.....and to all of you I owe so much...

Some days it's easier to throw off the reality of all this than others. Yes, we deserve more but hope for little. Anything is better than hopelessness.

[Mrs. John Adams]

It took her a long time to get there. I think its part of her warning because most wouldn't be as committed as Mr JA was. Me personally could only make it about 8 months with a WW that simply didn't get it and was looking primarily to protect herself before I shut down and started looking for the off ramp.

 

My fWW has since come a long way and has done everything in her power to help me understand and work on moving past it.

 

My fWW (as I'm sure Mrs JA did also) had issues with the state of the marriage pre-dating the affair but didn't or doesn't use it to justify what they did. I think that is cruel beyond believe to pin it on the betrayed, and a mistake that is repeated here daily.

 

I actually was never one to "throw shlt at him"....At the very beginning i did try to "justify" but Mr. JA shot me down pretty quick with that stuff....I may have thought..yeah you were an A**hole...but i kept my mouth shut.

[qubist]

Mrs john Adams should be reference to all WS that are considering working their way back to their spouses. she really an inspiration.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I am not a role model but I certainly can help those who are like me to 'get it' sooner.

 

I did many things wrong

 

And I know there are others out there who are like me.. Given time, books, forums and patience and love from their spouse they can get it.

[lovinDKT3]

I agree with you....there are ways to approach any difficult subject.

 

There has to come a time of "discussing" that is no longer "threatening" to either party...and i will tell you..it took me MANY years to be able to have "healing" conversations.

 

I think we have come to a place of almost looking at it third party....we can discuss it without being accusing....

 

You know how at first....the wayward lists the reasons...right? Well YOU were doing this or you WERE NOT doing that...and I felt this...on and on. and Each time that happens....it stabs the Betrayed in the heart...because what they want to hear is....I DID...I DID NOT.........

 

Those excuses and reasons all sound like blame shifting...because they are.

 

And hopefully...there will come a time when the wayward sees what it is they are doing....and the conversation changes.....now it is no longer accusatory...now it is accepting.....now it is healing....because the wayward steps up to the plate. The words are no longer selfish.

 

This kind of conversation is enlightening....because we both learn more about each other...and the choices made....healing conversation is ALWAYS good.

 

IC and MC are always good ideas...and i think they help the conversations to get to "healing" conversations quicker.

 

Edited to add....we cannot just "pretend" it never happened...it did. We cannot rug sweep...it does have to be addressed....and each couple can and must determine when and how it is to be discussed.

 

Anger has to be dealt with....from both parties.....because any anger will cause the other to retreat. TIME is probably your best friend in any situation. Surgery, death, any tragedy...TIME is the best healer...and while we grow frustrated because it takes TIME....when we look back....we know that time is often one of the most important elements in healing.

 

This is so true. I use to fear talking about or answering questions about the affair because saying the wrong thing would cause him to walk out and cut me off. Once he did I wanted to tell him everything.

 

When we got back together he told me in was in for the long haul, which it took me a while to believe. Once I knew he meant it I felt comfortable and secure enough to be totally open and honest.

 

A safety zone, its important to have that.

[Mrs. John Adams]

john and i talked about this tonight at dinner....

 

For many years...I still expected him to kick me out...I just always felt like it was more than he could handle.

But I will say this...I have reached a place that if he came to me now and said he was leaving....I would be totally and completely blindsided.....and maybe i am where he was emotionally 32 years ago.

 

the thought of his leaving...the thought of not growing old together...is just more than i can bear.

 

Maybe that's why i can honestly say i feel the pain betrayed feel.....

 

LovinDKT3....I know you understand....you and your precious man inspire me. Thank you for your testimony....thank you for your hope.

[lovinDKT3]

john and i talked about this tonight at dinner....

 

For many years...I still expected him to kick me out...I just always felt like it was more than he could handle.

But I will say this...I have reached a place that if he came to me now and said he was leaving....I would be totally and completely blindsided.....and maybe i am where he was emotionally 32 years ago.

 

the thought of his leaving...the thought of not growing old together...is just more than i can bear.

 

Maybe that's why i can honestly say i feel the pain betrayed feel.....

 

LovinDKT3....I know you understand....you and your precious man inspire me. Thank you for your testimony....thank you for your hope.

 

Yes, I understand. Thinking DKT couldn't handle it lead me to control the information and it backfired. They say we have to let go of the outcome, but its almost impossible when you want it so bad.

 

I too, fear him packing up and walking out. We are getting remarried Nov 15th, for months I felt like it was the finishline.

 

Mrs. JA, they say they are in fully don't we have to trust and believe them?

[Mrs. John Adams]

Sweetheart...we have to trust them as they have trusted us. The difference is...they did not blindside us.

 

You are still very young...you have a new baby....and a husband who loves you very much. You have so many years left together to build and grow and love each other.

 

I am 60....our time ahead is much shorter than the time behind us. We have had a remarkable life.....but i will confess...I look to our time ahead...and all i want is to be together. He is my best friend....my lover...and my life. Our children are grown with children of their own.....so the time for us to retire and enjoy our sunset years is upon us.

 

Your marriage...your vow renewal will mean SO MUCH MORE THIS TIME.....because you understand what you are promising....and will mean every word.

 

I once was lost but now am found....was blind but now i see

you understand?

[lovinDKT3]

Sweetheart...we have to trust them as they have trusted us. The difference is...they did not blindside us.

 

You are still very young...you have a new baby....and a husband who loves you very much. You have so many years left together to build and grow and love each other.

 

I am 60....our time ahead is much shorter than the time behind us. We have had a remarkable life.....but i will confess...I look to our time ahead...and all i want is to be together. He is my best friend....my lover...and my life. Our children are grown with children of their own.....so the time for us to retire and enjoy our sunset years is upon us.

 

Your marriage...your vow renewal will mean SO MUCH MORE THIS TIME.....because you understand what you are promising....and will mean every word.

 

I once was lost but now am found....was blind but now i see

you understand?

 

Im closing in on 42 and we are reaching our 26 year together, I dont really feel that young.

 

He does love me, I pushed his love to the limit, and did some pretty cruel things to him both during and after my affair. Even through all that it seems he would protect me even if it meant he was taking bullets. How was I so willing to risk that. Like you said, I got lost in my selfishness and I recall.thinking even if he found out about the affair he wouldn't leave me. Yes I took him for granted.

[merrmeade]

At a certain point my counselor told me to not bring up the affair and I have not brought it up for over 20 years. I do not know if that was the right thing to do or not I just know that we have a fairly good recovery; not great but good most of the time. I have worked at building myself up so that I do not have to depend on her expressed remorse. I am sure that if she did express the remorse verbally that it would help but I cannot depend on that. I know that she regrets her actions and it has damaged her but she is not the kind to talk about deep hurts. Although words can be helpful I always go by actions more than words.

 

I am very fortunate and I have nuclear family and parents and sister that think highly of me and show it with actions. In addition, I have been blessed by God and witnessed His mercy and grace.

Once all of the BS's questions have been answered there is no reason to take about the affair. All talking does is keep the memories of the affair fresh for the WS and the BS. Recovery can not happen with those conditions.

 

Yes 30 years later the WS or BS can trigger about the affair though best to let the moment pass then to talk about it.

No offense but that can sound glib to someone who just triggered. Remembering or realizing something new about the affair is a trigger, and a trigger feels just like d-day all over again—worse because of all you know now. In no time, you can be sucked into a funk that is big or small, short- or long-lasting, depending on other life circumstances. If your partner doesn't help, then the support of friends or family can make all the difference, just knowing that someone puts you first. I've lost my parents and a brother, yet the response of the surviving brother, when I finally told him, lifted the depression that had debilitated me for 3 years. Even now, a trigger can start the cycle going again, and the value of life itself even falls into question.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

During my wife's affair she became very distant and cold. Besides the obvious cruelty of the affair itself, here treatment towards me during that time was bad. After a few months into her affair, I began to consider the possibility of divorce based solely on how she was treating me during that period.

 

Her affair was during the Holiday season with a co-worker. I went with her to the company Christmas party. Things weren't good between us (lots of tension due to her affair), but we went anyways. As soon as we get to the house, she blows me off. As I'm at a party where I don't know anyone, she is hanging out with her boyfriend. Once I put all of the pieces together years later, I told her that was the most callous, emasculating thing she has ever done to me. Again, I didn't even know about the affair, and that night I almost left her at the party to find her own ride home. Now I know I was the schmuck husband sitting on the couch without a clue.

 

Her behavior was so "off". I now attribute it to her cognitive dissonance. She couldn't reconcile that fact that she was a "good person/wife" and a "cheater", so she completely shut me down. I tried to reach out to her, and ask her what was going on. She was mostly non-responsive. She avoided me. She avoided eye contact. I had no idea what was gong on with her. An affair was not even on my radar because prior to meeting the OM, our marriage was strong and passionate. Things changed so abruptly.