cruelty during the affair.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Shatteredlady....I have been crying ever since i read your post...and my sweet husband has been trying to console me...because that's the man he is....

 

If I knew of a way...to speak with those who have betrayed...i think i have so much i could say to them...but would they listen?

 

Sadly most who come here are those who have been betrayed and not the betrayer.....

 

the betrayed have endured so much....and often...the betrayer has no idea how deep this goes.....they have no concept of what they have done.....

 

your husband truly does not realize how cruel he has been...because if he understood....he would grovel at your feet begging your forgiveness and asking what can i do to help heal you?

 

instead...he wonders why you are so upset and he doesn't want you to be mad at him...for being so selfish and thoughtless and cruel. He not only has taken from you...the comfort you should have in your relationship...but he has taken away the joy of reading to your children....the simple happiness of reading a book to them. It may not sound like a big thing....but this is HUGE....and i get it my dear...i understand....and my heart is breaking for you.

 

please please know that i understand and i am so very very sorry.

[nightmare01]

I just want to tell you all how very sorry I am for the pain you suffer from people like me.. It truly breaks my heart.

 

If I knew how to help you heal I would do so

 

To think what I have done to my husband .. I have no words

 

Mrs. JA -

You are definitely NOT like the WS we are speaking of here. If more WS were like you a lot more marriages would be saved.. and a lot more BS would still be sane.

[candycane0116]

Gloria25, just why? Why endure this from someone? What does he do that keeps you hanging on for more. Your hurt seems fresh. I'm sorry you're having a tough time.

Your anger at his wife is so misdirected. She didn't subject you to any of this, he did. You accepted. Why be mad at her. Please don't believe you improved his marriage. The only people who can work on and improve a marriage are the two in it.

 

Amen! I agree with all of this post. Why put up with this treatmeant, Gloria25? You are better than that.

[candycane0116]

so I am trying to understand...you are the other woman...complaining because the husband treats his WIFE better than he is treating you?

 

I am trying to figure this out as well... I wouldn't let my own man treat me like that, let alone a MARRIED MAN that is USING me for his own amusement..

[JohnAdams]

Most people do not have as many years behind them in reconciliation as we do, so I can look at this more retrospectively. Immediately after the affair, Mrs. JA said many things that were very insensitive. I truly do not believe she said any of these things to be mean, she said them because that is how she was thinking at the time.

 

Mrs. JA could have taken her affair to the grave. I would not have any knowledge of it to this day had she not told me. So, the triggers and the things I suffered from for years were things she said. I often dwelled and analyzed the things she said to me. Most of these things she did not remember because they were not important to her, but cut me like a knife. A couple of years ago Mrs. JA asked me to compile a list of the things she said during this time frame as she thought it may be therapeutic for me. I typed four pages of quotes, far from all inclusive. I am not sure if it really helped, but, I think it was quite the shock to her and she is very aware that she did indeed say these things.

 

Unfortunately, I doubt many if any wayward spouses are in a true position to be remorseful immediately after an affair. A BS, at least this BS, measured every word to try to get meaning out of what happened.

 

We are very fortunate. I always knew Mrs. JA was sorry, and I could live with that, and that is where many reconciliations end. Happy, but, something missing. We finally found that missing piece. It took years, but, was well worth the wait.

[Woggle]

She tore up a picture of a close friend that was murdered right in front of my face.

 

She threw dishes at me and held a knife to me to my throat

 

One day I came out of the shower and she spit at me for no good reason at all and said that was I all I deserved from her

 

One day we were watching something about men that beat women and she said I am a pathetic excuse for a man because I would never beat her like that.

 

I can go on and on.

[troubadour]

She tore up a picture of a close friend that was murdered right in front of my face.

 

She threw dishes at me and held a knife to me to my throat

 

One day I came out of the shower and she spit at me for no good reason at all and said that was I all I deserved from her

 

One day we were watching something about men that beat women and she said I am a pathetic excuse for a man because I would never beat her like that.

 

I can go on and on.

 

 

I'm sorry but no man with a healthy dose of self-respect would tolerate this kind of behaviour.

[I4givehim]

Knowing he never had my back hurts me the most. I can't get over the awful names he called me. I can't get over how he spent money on the OW and would give us nothing. There were times there was no food in the house but he would take her out to eat. To me he is not a man. A real man would protect his wife and children..... I didn't deserve to be treated so badly. I'm a good person. I was a very caring wife and he took advantage of my niceness. I will never be able to trust again.

[nightmare01]

Let's be clear. Affairs are abuse. Abuse at a level with the worst possible spousal abuse.

 

We have all suffered physical abuse via exposure to disease & risk of violence. Many of us had things thrown at us, personal items stolen or broken.

 

We have suffered emotional abuse, we lost control of our lives by removal of our ability to choose through the manipulation of the facts we use to make decisions. We were also made crazy wondering what the heck was going on in our lives and with our spouse. We were screamed at, demeaned and belittled. We have been degraded, our reputations soiled.

 

All this and more.

 

But regarding those so hurtful things our WS said. I think the question we have to work out for ourselves is whether our WS was speaking the truth of how they feel about us, or were they in an altered mental state? After Dday if a WS wants to keep the marriage (for whatever reason), are they lying to us when they say they didn't mean what they said during their affair? When a WS is trying for recovery, are they lying to reach their goal, or are they finally telling the truth?

 

Which do we believe? Do we believe what was said during the affair with their filters off, or do we believe them now that their heads have cleared?

 

Sorry I'm not making much sense. It's late and I'm sleepy.

[Mr Blunt]

By John Adams

So, the triggers and the things I suffered from for years were things she said. I often dwelled and analyzed the things she said to me. Most of these things she did not remember because they were not important to her, but cut me like a knife……………………………….

We are very fortunate. I always knew Mrs. JA was sorry, and I could live with that, and that is where many reconciliations end. Happy, but, something missing. We finally found that missing piece. It took years, but, was well worth the wait.

I found that on an Infidelity forum you have so many that have not had a very successful R. It is great encouragement to read a post like John Adams and the great recovery actions and attitudes by Mrs. JA.

I have been in successful R for over 20 years and still every once in a while, after reading some post on the infidelity forum, I get unsettled. When you have winners like Mr. and Mrs. John Adams posting I want to point out that Mr. Infidelity can get his AZZ KICKED!

TY Mr. and Mrs Adams!

[cocorico]

what was the worst thing your WS did or said to you during his or hers affair?

 

My husband

 

Ex-husband.

 

He is her husband now. The thread asked about cruelty *during* the A - not how much better his second marriage is than his first.

 

 

did all the things I wanted to do with him with her instead. Vacations weren't important when we were together but he goes every weekend with her somewhere and 12 weeks a year with her. Her Instagram and her articles are filled with beautiful places he goes with her to. Thank God at least he isn't in the pictures because it hurts enough to know he's there. When we were married he always said we couldn't afford vacations. Now he goes to Japan and Hong Kong and Germany and England without a thought. With her and the kids. They are supposed to be going to Bora Bora with the kids in January. I don't know how I'll cope with that.

 

In the divorce he was generous but he did little things that hurt. I can't go visit his family or bring the kids to visit his family. He has to. My alimony is going to be cut off in 4 weeks and when I tried to talk about it, he blew me off. He is cold in how he deals with me and he was cold when he left. I begged him to stay but he just said over and over that what he had with her was true love and he couldn't stay. He left everything when he left me. He was just gone.

 

I think, together with your own thread, it's becoming clear that he's trying to protect his family from too much craziness. Has the court ordered you to stay away from his family? How badly did you stalk and harass them for that to become necessary? Did you tell them that you were just waiting in the wings for his wife to die so you could get your claws back into him? Did you tell them that six years after your divorce you still regard him as your property? Did you tell them that when he tries to escape from you you chase him down the road, badgering him about having an affair with you - while his wife is (possibly) dying?

[road]

Most people do not have as many years behind them in reconciliation as we do, so I can look at this more retrospectively. Immediately after the affair, Mrs. JA said many things that were very insensitive. I truly do not believe she said any of these things to be mean, she said them because that is how she was thinking at the time.

 

Mrs. JA could have taken her affair to the grave. I would not have any knowledge of it to this day had she not told me. So, the triggers and the things I suffered from for years were things she said. I often dwelled and analyzed the things she said to me. Most of these things she did not remember because they were not important to her, but cut me like a knife. A couple of years ago Mrs. JA asked me to compile a list of the things she said during this time frame as she thought it may be therapeutic for me. I typed four pages of quotes, far from all inclusive. I am not sure if it really helped, but, I think it was quite the shock to her and she is very aware that she did indeed say these things.

 

Unfortunately, I doubt many if any wayward spouses are in a true position to be remorseful immediately after an affair. A BS, at least this BS, measured every word to try to get meaning out of what happened.

 

We are very fortunate. I always knew Mrs. JA was sorry, and I could live with that, and that is where many reconciliations end. Happy, but, something missing. We finally found that missing piece. It took years, but, was well worth the wait.

 

 

 

 

Would you be comfortable to share some?

[JohnAdams]

Would you be comfortable to share some?

 

I do not want to get too specific. Many of the usual things that probably a lot of BS's hear such as I was not meeting her needs, etc.

 

 

A lot of the stories that you read on the board has the BS telling how their spouse traded down during the affair. That their AP was fat, ugly, a criminal, etc. I heard just the opposite, that the AP was quite a trade up. Many of these things were cutting. After the affair, she wanted me to cut my hair different, dress different, etc. Become him.....except I am who I am.

 

 

Words cut and leave a lasting impression that is difficult to get over. I think many of the words hurt worse than the actual affair.

[minimariah]

Words cut and leave a lasting impression that is difficult to get over. I think many of the words hurt worse than the actual affair.

 

indeed.

 

it's incredibly painful when the WS spouse tries to change you into their AP -- that rejection goes very, very deep. and you remember every bad word or look of disgust or praise for the AP... i don't think those images ever leave a BS, really. it hits you every once in a while.

[Dutchman1]

[quote name=

 

We are very fortunate. I always knew Mrs. JA was sorry, and I could live with that, and that is where many reconciliations end. Happy, but, something missing. We finally found that missing piece. It took years, but, was well worth the wait.

 

Hello Mr. JohnAdams,

 

 

Currently I'm having this problem, its like putting together a puzzle, but the pieces are from different puzzles.

Can't get my finger on it. It's confusing, worrying, and making me very sad, maybe sometimes the missing pieces are just never to be found.

 

 

What did you find that brought you this peace, and I must say I believe you're a winner because Mrs. JA is a real prize. Her effort and work must have been off the charts.

 

 

Dutchman 1

[nightmare01]

indeed.

 

it's incredibly painful when the WS spouse tries to change you into their AP -- that rejection goes very, very deep. and you remember every bad word or look of disgust or praise for the AP... i don't think those images ever leave a BS, really. it hits you every once in a while.

 

During the first few years after Dday WW and I tried counseling. None of the ones we found had a frigging clue, and finally I got discouraged and gave up looking. The counselors generally all went down the line with "the M was bad and that's why she had an affair".. so it was my fault. IMO sometimes counseling can do more harm than good.

 

Anyway. One thing I did get out of one of the counselors was a term - "narcissistic wound". She said that being betrayed in a marriage was a narcissistic wound, a wound to your core self. Maybe that's why it alters us all so deeply, and why it takes so long to recover yourself.

[Woggle]

I'm sorry but no man with a healthy dose of self-respect would tolerate this kind of behaviour.

 

If I could do it over again no way I would have stayed as long as I did.

[minimariah]

During the first few years after Dday WW and I tried counseling. None of the ones we found had a frigging clue, and finally I got discouraged and gave up looking. The counselors generally all went down the line with "the M was bad and that's why she had an affair".. so it was my fault. IMO sometimes counseling can do more harm than good.

 

i don't think this was blame shifting on YOU - more like it was pointing out that both of you left marriage in a vulnerable place. affairs usually DO happen because there is something unfulfulling for one or both sides in the marriage and instead of taking is a criticism and an attempt at detecting a problem - people take it as a personal attack and pointing fingers... that's not the point.

 

Anyway. One thing I did get out of one of the counselors was a term - "narcissistic wound". She said that being betrayed in a marriage was a narcissistic wound, a wound to your core self. Maybe that's why it alters us all so deeply, and why it takes so long to recover yourself.

 

i disagree - this way, you're bringing it all to an ego thing. i WISH it was a narcissistic wound... many people would actually bounce back faster.

 

for me it was absolutely impossible to stay in a recovery because that meant having to rebuild a trust with the same person who already showed they can't be trusted. so it's like being shot down and then asked to trust the gunman... it almost never works out. and that's why it takes so long for those in a recovery - you're reminded DAILY of what that person did while trying to fight your reason and build trust on absolutely nothing.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Dutchman1

 

I was no prize.. It took me way to long to figure it out.

I don't want to hog this thread anymore than I already have

And I was thinking about starting a thread to discuss remorse but it would need to be in a different forum.

 

Road... Mr adams probably will not share with you specifics because he protects me... And I was vile.

The one thing I can hear myself saying over and over for years when he would trigger around the anniversary date of my affair was why are you still punishing me...

 

You see I was still carrying my own pain instead of his.. It was still about me...

When I finally saw the light.. I stopped thinking about my hurt and put on his.. And when I did that... It made all the difference

It changed me and he saw that and it gave him the ability to forgive me and know that I fully understood what I had done to him

[nightmare01]

i don't think this was blame shifting on YOU - more like it was pointing out that both of you left marriage in a vulnerable place. affairs usually DO happen because there is something unfulfulling for one or both sides in the marriage and instead of taking is a criticism and an attempt at detecting a problem - people take it as a personal attack and pointing fingers... that's not the point.

 

The way the "marriage issues" were framed by the counselor was that since my wife had the affair, then I must have made the marriage bad. That's not really so. It's true I was not a good husband, but I did my best. I had a demanding career (silicon valley start ups) and so was being pulled in a lot of different directions. I did my best - always was home on weekends - date nights - nice vacations every year. But it was never enough.

 

The problem I have with determinism is that it removes the person from taking responsibility for their actions. If you can say that she had her affair because the marriage was bad, and the marriage was bad because I wasn't home enough, then what did she do to drive me away from home?

 

i disagree - this way, you're bringing it all to an ego thing. i WISH it was a narcissistic wound... many people would actually bounce back faster.

 

for me it was absolutely impossible to stay in a recovery because that meant having to rebuild a trust with the same person who already showed they can't be trusted. so it's like being shot down and then asked to trust the gunman... it almost never works out. and that's why it takes so long for those in a recovery - you're reminded DAILY of what that person did while trying to fight your reason and build trust on absolutely nothing.

 

I like your analogy of the gunman.

 

I believe that being betrayed this way wounds you to your very core. You doubt yourself. You doubt your ability to judge others. You loose your self respect. You loose your ability to trust others. It changes your world view - a once optimistic person can become very pessimistic. It shifts your reality. It's like a big chunk of your foundation has been blown away.

[DKT3]

I guess I was lucky in the sense that her actions and words weren't really cruel. In many ways she became more attached (when I was physically home). When I travelled is were I saw a change in her actions.

 

The one thing she did that was really cruel (aside from the affair itself) was she would buy both me and OM the same gifts. That has been something I could and still can't wrap my mind around. The first MC told me in her opinion it was from guilt, that she simply couldn't bring herself to do anything for OM that she wouldn't do for me. My response was, what if the gift idea was for me? What does it say that she couldn't buy me something without also getting it for him? Question deflected.

[foxy2013]

Shatteredlady....I have been crying ever since i read your post...and my sweet husband has been trying to console me...because that's the man he is....

 

If I knew of a way...to speak with those who have betrayed...i think i have so much i could say to them...but would they listen?

 

Sadly most who come here are those who have been betrayed and not the betrayer.....

 

the betrayed have endured so much....and often...the betrayer has no idea how deep this goes.....they have no concept of what they have done.....

 

your husband truly does not realize how cruel he has been...because if he understood....he would grovel at your feet begging your forgiveness and asking what can i do to help heal you?

 

instead...he wonders why you are so upset and he doesn't want you to be mad at him...for being so selfish and thoughtless and cruel. He not only has taken from you...the comfort you should have in your relationship...but he has taken away the joy of reading to your children....the simple happiness of reading a book to them. It may not sound like a big thing....but this is HUGE....and i get it my dear...i understand....and my heart is breaking for you.

 

please please know that i understand and i am so very very sorry.

 

 

 

 

I was the betrayer and I used to grieve on forums for months after the infidelity. I was tortured inside by my mistakes for a long time. But I am a woman (not trying to be sexist but..you know)

[HereNorThere]

WS is the husband/wife who strays right?

 

The WORST thing this jerk did to me is toy with my feelings...

 

I mean, real OWs at least get time, sex, even a one minute convo with the WS. Oh, but not me.

 

I get endless stares, mirroring, gestures and nada. Then, in a few days of him doing whatever to get my attention - he's doing selfies online with his wife...is that cruel or not? How can you do stuff to get my attention and two days later turn around and make grand gestures to your wife? Is this a game for you? Is this some sick form of gas lighting?

 

Oh, and another cruel thing to do? To find out like what my fav perfume is, go buy it for her, then post it on social media. Again, what guy does that!!!????!!!!

 

Oh, when he found out I like PDA? WHAT did he do? Not PDA to/with me...PDA WITH HER and FOR ME TO SEE!!!! Again, who the heck does that?!?

 

So, I'm beneath a OW. I'm like poop on his feet. At least a real OW gets free sex out of her sacrificing being the 3rd wheel. I get NOTHING. Yet, somehow, he wants to get his panties in a tizzy if he dare thinks I'm out seeing someone else. REally? Oh, so I'm supposed to stay home and not get any while you lay up with her? Isn't that cruel or what?

 

Don't let me start with the online games either. It is cruel to post stuff here and/or on other websites to mess with my head. It's cruel to catfish. It's cruel to post about how you don't show your real feelings for someone you're really into. REally? REally? Ok, but you're ok with endless selfies with her...so, I guess you can do selfies with her cuz she means nothing to you? Gimmie a break. Am I supposed to be that stupid? So, I'm supposed to be content alone while you're getting sex, selfies, companionship cuz the fact that you do not do this with me means you are MORE into me? Now, that's a cruel game to play on someone.

 

Oh, and how did/does he treat the BS? LIKE A QUEEN....She reaps all the benefits of "him" and/or what he learns about me. LIke buying stuff for her he knows I'd like and/or already have. Him doing renovations to "their" home. Him learning about PDA, sex, and what not. Oh yea, she's probably oblivious to all of this cuz again, this whole year of me being the OW poop under his shoe? She gets even put on a higher pedestal. Yes, this is an actual case where the OW actually strenghened and improved a marriage. Ripley's Believe it or NOT!!! Oh, and the kicker? She is just sitting on her butt and reaping these benefits...by default. So, shoot, I need to get married so I can just sit on my butt and be lazy and my husband just shower me with this or that cuz I have a pretty face (don't let me get started on her body) and am married to him.

 

So, Gloria25 wins the game of cruel treatment from a WS. Can I come and collect my prize already? I want my prize now, at least I'll be "something" I've gotten out of this year of putting my life on hold when I haven't even been kissed - much less kept a 1 min convo with the WS.

 

BTW, I have gotten NO explanation from this guy as to why he does this cruel stuff. Maybe, just maybe if he'd sit down and talk to me I'd get an explanation. Maybe it would calm me down. Maybe I could understand a bit better. But NOOOO....all I get is catfishing online where I gotta try and decipher if he's trying to express something to me. Oh, but today he was clear, he is doing all of this to "keep me on my toes". Oh, keep me on my toes for what? Last time I looked, his marriage is freakin' solid. So, why do I need to be on my toes for a taken man? Pleeeze

 

 

Is this for real? Did you really just compare your pain as the other woman to the pain of a betrayed spouse? Really? This is like someone who robbed a bank and complained that holding the gun made their hand sore. My stomach seriously sank with disgust reading it, but I'm still glad you posted because it gives so much insight into the mind of someone capable of this.

 

Look, as an OW you had a choice. You didn't take wedding vows, you weren't lied to, you weren't forced into any of it. You didn't have children with half his DNA, a shared home and finances, nothing, nada.

 

This post just goes to show you the self-centered nature of someone who gets involved with married people. Not once did you talk about the damage and destruction you did someone's family. I'm honestly floored that you had the nerve to write something like that. Somehow you've painted yourself into this victim when you are the perpetrator. WOW.

 

I always speak strongly about the amount of rationalization it takes to put yourself into a situation like this, so here it is for the betrayed spouses to see with their own eyes. Take note and watch out for this sort of thing. Trust me, it's the most dangerous characteristic that a personality can have.

 

I think that's enough Internet for me today.

Edited October 5, 2015 by HereNorThere

[autumnnight]

Herenorthere, we frequently disagree, but I have to say, I fully agree with you on this one.

 

It's like a drunk driver walking into a MADD meeting talking about how hard it was to fit behind the wheel when he left the bar....

[ladydesigner]

what was the worst thing your WS did or said to you during his or hers affair? many WSs become incredibly cruel to their BSs so i was wondering - what was the moment that really left you shocked and speechless & wondering "who is this person?!"?

 

for those of you who are reconciled or going through the reconciliation - did your spouse offer explanation or expressed remorse about those cruel moments?

 

(i'm talking about those moments where you really feel like you're stuck with a lobotomized version of your spouse, they're incredibly angry & vicious to you but at the same time - your every attempt at conversation just gets shot down & you feel like you're in some kind of dark hole.)

 

 

WH told me I didn't text him the way MOW did.

 

I didn't have sex with him enough (we had sex 3 times a week)

 

He felt like we were just roommates

 

No one cares to hear me anymore

 

I need to just get over it

 

I abuse him (because I'm upset about A I have yelled at him on occasion)

 

...and nope my WH has not expressed much remorse. I honestly don't know if he is capable of it. His explanation for much of it is that he is human and humans make mistakes oh and I can't forget my favorite even with his 5% of remorse he says he will not let THIS A define him. yeah buddy lol