Bitterness in men

[wb1988]

If these people knew how transparent they were with their tantrums, they wouldn't throw them because they would be mortified.

 

 

OP, the best response is silence. Never sink to his level or give him attention if he's acting 5 years old.

 

 

I'm actually in shock at how grown ups throw tantrums, and even put it in writing. And they harassed you for sex. What would their families think if they knew?

 

You need to remember that all the info is coming from the OP, so it's not like the guy could explain his side. For all we know she could be replying to his messages 10 hours late not 10 minutes, and her texts are very stringy.

[wb1988]

I think some men are looking for weak women or women who will do their best to please.

 

So women that do their best to please are 'weak' women, and women that do nothing for their guy are 'strong'? Right, I got it :laugh:

[Toodaloo]

The OP is dating multiple guys, that's also the same as not taking any guy seriously. I still find it annoying and so feminist that when a guy does the same it's somehow different.

 

One I have not met yet. He has become quite the pen pal... not looking as though we will meet any time soon either.

 

One I have a second date with but not even so much as a snog yet and no indication of anything more. Who knows?

 

One is a friend and we talked after our first date, he also "multi dates" because he knows that 99.9% are not going to go beyond first date. We have actually become quite close as friends over the past month and I have suggested that he go on a date with another girl and he is encouraging me so it looks like its staying that way. No bitterness or stress just plain simple honesty. We are becoming emotionally invested in each other as friends.

 

Thats all I have going on. So its not really "dating". As soon as I get to "snogging stage" I concentrate on that person and cancel all other dates... So no I don't think I am leading anyone on.

 

I am not expecting anything else from the others either. I know the chap with the second date has a FB. He saw her over the weekend. It doesn't worry me as we don't know each other well enough to be emotionally invested at this moment in time. I expect that should things move on that will take its course in the same way my meeting men will do.

[Toodaloo]

So women that do their best to please are 'weak' women, and women that do nothing for their guy are 'strong'? Right, I got it :laugh:

 

I think you are misreading. What Elaine is saying.

 

Men and women will often push to see where the boundary is.

 

I admit it I am a people pleaser. Can't help it I get kicks from seeing people smile and feel better about themselves.

 

However, sometimes others take advantage of this. In my experience its both men and women. Instead of allowing things to grow and develop naturally they push, goad and use guilt trips... Totally different behavior set. And a red flag.

 

It wasn't 10 hours at all.

 

I do have work to do and that does tend to take priority over things like posting on here and sending texts... If I am driving I am not going to start tapping out texts... If I am sat on the loo having a poo I am not going to start texting... If I leave my phone in the car or another room I am not going to have a panic because I haven't looked at it for 10 minutes...

[TB Rhine]

Sorry to say, but a lot of men don't respond well to rejection (real or perceived). When you tell them to back off, they're either going to vanish or get pissed. It's just the price of doing business. The key is to find a guy you can make it work with -- and that includes being compatible in terms of how intense you'd like things to get how soon, and so on -- not to hope guys will magically start taking it better when you try and kick them to the curb.

[Taramere]

I think you are misreading. What Elaine is saying.

 

Men and women will often push to see where the boundary is.

 

Agreed. There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to please somebody you care about or going out of your way to make them happy when you know they feel the same way back.

 

My interpretation of Elaine's comment was that she was disagreeing with the wisdom of bending over backwards to please or appease somebody who is behaving badly. I can't think of any scenario in which rewarding bad behaviour (which is what we do when we seek to appease it) tends to be deemed either wise or functional behaviour - regardless of the gender of any of the parties involved. It gets a bit tedious to hear women being referred to disapprovingly as "feminists" every time we have the temerity to expect reasonable, adult behaviour - or if we refuse to pander adoringly to clearly manipulative behaviour.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Taramere

[wb1988]

I think you are misreading. What Elaine is saying.

 

Men and women will often push to see where the boundary is.

 

I admit it I am a people pleaser. Can't help it I get kicks from seeing people smile and feel better about themselves.

 

However, sometimes others take advantage of this. In my experience its both men and women.

 

Agreed. There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to please somebody you care about or going out of your way to make them happy when you know they feel the same way back.

 

My interpretation of Elaine's comment was that she was disagreeing with the wisdom of bending over backwards to please or appease somebody who is behaving badly. I can't think of any scenario in which rewarding bad behaviour (which is what we do when we seek to appease it) tends to be deemed either wise or functional behaviour - regardless of the gender of any of the parties involved. It gets a bit tedious to hear women being referred to disapprovingly as "feminists" every time we have the temerity to expect reasonable, adult behaviour - or if we refuse to pander adoringly to clearly manipulative behaviour.

 

No no if you read some of her other posts you'll see that she's definitely geared towards feminism (not equality humanitarians but the female first men second 'feminists'). Also she could have said "some look for people that are weak or someone who does their best to please", but no she made it a female victimization thing. Also the term feminist itself comes from the female perspective and interest, if you're truly into equality then you'd call yourself a humanitarian (or whatever non-gender biased name). Sorry but I think it seems right that feminists aren taken less seriously these days just like those that cry racism, nepotism and etc.

 

As a guy I know that there are so many guys that also like to please. Depending on the person I can also fall into that trap as well. But saying that those that want to please are weak, or more specifically that women who please are weak well... I just hope that you are 'strong' when you righteously get cheated on.

 

How many men do you know that specifically look for women that are eager to please? Now compare that to the number of women you know that are looking for a guy that can 'take care' of them? Are the numbers similar or are they so disproportionate that it's actually almost normal for a wife to see her husband as a handyman and a walking atm?

Edited July 27, 2015 by wb1988

[SycamoreCircle]

One I have not met yet. He has become quite the pen pal... not looking as though we will meet any time soon either.

 

One I have a second date with but not even so much as a snog yet and no indication of anything more. Who knows?

 

One is a friend and we talked after our first date, he also "multi dates" because he knows that 99.9% are not going to go beyond first date. We have actually become quite close as friends over the past month and I have suggested that he go on a date with another girl and he is encouraging me so it looks like its staying that way. No bitterness or stress just plain simple honesty. We are becoming emotionally invested in each other as friends.

 

Thats all I have going on. So its not really "dating". As soon as I get to "snogging stage" I concentrate on that person and cancel all other dates... So no I don't think I am leading anyone on.

 

I am not expecting anything else from the others either. I know the chap with the second date has a FB. He saw her over the weekend. It doesn't worry me as we don't know each other well enough to be emotionally invested at this moment in time. I expect that should things move on that will take its course in the same way my meeting men will do.

Has it ever occurred to you that maybe your "methodology" is a bit of the problem, as well? It just sounds so pre-planned not an ounce of joy could be squeezed from any of it! I understand you're working from past example, from past experience but I feel like it's compounding your own dissatisfaction, your own bitterness.

 

What is a possible solution to this? Like I said, take a break. Be suitor-less for a while. Or...maybe, meeting men a different way. No more pen pals, I might suggest. Purely person-to-person. Purely unplanned. No dating sites, no blind dates.

[Eggplant]

You need to remember that all the info is coming from the OP, so it's not like the guy could explain his side. For all we know she could be replying to his messages 10 hours late not 10 minutes, and her texts are very stringy.

Let's suppose she is stringy and 10 hours late. Let's suppose she was rude. If I were an emotionally stable adult man, I would not retaliate by blowing up her phone with insults. I would shrug off rude behavior and forget her. Doing otherwise is impulsive, the action of a child, and reveals that you yourself have a screw loose. I personally would never let somebody who is rude to me get the best of me and see me lose it.

[Toodaloo]

Update.

 

Both recent "bitter" men came back yesterday. One I suspect just wanted to dig the knife in. He starts pleasant then goes for it. He is now blocked.

 

The other said that after calming down he wants to try again.

 

"Hello. How are you? Having given it a few days, was hoping we could sort this out, if you were still interested."

 

I haven't responded. To either

[elaine567]

 

My interpretation of Elaine's comment was that she was disagreeing with the wisdom of bending over backwards to please or appease somebody who is behaving badly. I can't think of any scenario in which rewarding bad behaviour (which is what we do when we seek to appease it) tends to be deemed either wise or functional behaviour - regardless of the gender of any of the parties involved. It gets a bit tedious to hear women being referred to disapprovingly as "feminists" every time we have the temerity to expect reasonable, adult behaviour - or if we refuse to pander adoringly to clearly manipulative behaviour.

 

Exactly, this is a thread about bitter men, hence I talked about bitter men, had it been about bitter people in general or bitter women in particular I would have tailored my post accordingly.

No-one should be pandering to bad behaviour, women should not be pandering to bad behaviour from men, it is not feminist to say that, it is common sense.

Or should we all be thinking here that those men are just being men and that women should just put up with it?

 

Every time a woman on here dares to mention that men do this or men do that, she is accused of gender stereotyping or being a feminist, yet we have huge threads almost daily decrying women from whiny men...

[elaine567]

The purpose of dating has always been to find people we are compatible with, men with short fuses or who are going to go into rant mode at the slightest provocation are not usually compatible with many healthy women.

 

If I went to the baker and he started shouting about how he hadn't seen me in his shop for a week and when I turned on my heel he followed me down the street still upset, still ranting, surely I am going to give him a huge wide berth and never darken his door again.

 

Just because the conversation was by text here, doesn't make it any less ridiculous.

 

People sometimes inadvertently show us their real bitter/twisted/angry/resentful/mad selves.

In dating and looking for a LTR. I suggest no-one ignores or excuses that.

[giblesp]

It's the BEST way to treat men in dating, like tools in a tool box, you play with them till you find one that is a good cordless Milwaukee M18 FUEL 2603 with a life warranty.

 

We get treated how we treat others in life. So don't complain when you get swapped out for the younger, hotter new model that's on the shelf.

[giblesp]

Update.

 

Both recent "bitter" men came back yesterday. One I suspect just wanted to dig the knife in. He starts pleasant then goes for it. He is now blocked.

 

The other said that after calming down he wants to try again.

 

"Hello. How are you? Having given it a few days, was hoping we could sort this out, if you were still interested."

 

I haven't responded. To either

 

Yet your still allowing them in your space, after they have acted weak and rude. Why are you allowing these men in your space in the first place? Instead of dating multiple idiots, why not wait for the right person to come along, and just date him?

[SycamoreCircle]

Yet your still allowing them in your space, after they have acted weak and rude. Why are you allowing these men in your space in the first place? Instead of dating multiple idiots, why not wait for the right person to come along, and just date him?

I agree. I feel like it's the "circulation" of Toolman, Trainbrother, and The Human Trapeze that excite you. By having such a panoply of men, you can text who you want when you want at what intensity you want. It's all very inconstant which causes these men much annoyance and frustration. You're not really interested in any of them, you just want that energy around you.

[gaius]

I'm not sure how you guys are expecting her to find Mr. Right without talking and interacting with guys. =/ Usually the person you eventually end up with isn't perfect but if you're lucky at the end of the day they're perfect for you. And I don't see anything wrong with Too giving these guys another chance to wow her even after they haven't been perfect. It's a very loving attitude actually.

[elaine567]

And I don't see anything wrong with Too giving these guys another chance to wow her even after they haven't been perfect. It's a very loving attitude actually.

 

It is, but as Tood has previously been in an abusive relationship, she needs to be wary of being too tolerant of guys who are already showing their bitter side and they don't even know her yet.

[kendahke]

You are dating multiple guys so of course there will be problems with communication and building up a connection.

 

Non sequitur.

 

She doesn't have a communication problem with the guys she's getting along with. The only communication problem was with the dude who, after knowing her for 2 hours, wanted to f*ck her on the second date and she said no. He then resorted to coercion tactics to get his way and when they failed, he began to verbally assault and harass her.

 

She didn't owe him sex just because he wanted it on his terms alone. Her communication with him was so clear that he revealed his true self.

[Toodaloo]

I'm not sure how you guys are expecting her to find Mr. Right without talking and interacting with guys. =/ Usually the person you eventually end up with isn't perfect but if you're lucky at the end of the day they're perfect for you. And I don't see anything wrong with Too giving these guys another chance to wow her even after they haven't been perfect. It's a very loving attitude actually.

 

Thank you Gaius.

 

I actually don't want anyone "perfect" - how dull would that be? I just want a human being that treats themselves and others with dignity and respect. That comes in many different forms. People express that in many different ways. I just want someone that I can live with and build a life with. Perhaps that is too much to ask as all guys seem to want is to hump and dump. They say they want more but many push so hard so fast it seems as though they are either desperate for sex or affection... Not a good place to start a long lasting and committed relationship.

 

You are being a bit charitable though as both are being ignored and are not being allowed into my "space" as others put it. I am not giving them more chances. They have had plenty. They have blown it. If they can get like this over something so silly then what happens when life throws a curve ball? Nope time to pass them by. I have had many years of being the whipping boy. I am not doing it again.

 

Imagine if I had not been speaking to the others and just concentrated on one of them only to be used as a punch bag for hurling abuse at? That would not have boded well at all. I could have passed up perfectly good men for a-holes... isn't that what everyone keeps complaining about? At least by doing things this way I get to actually find out who the good ones are and who the players and bad guys are. Informed decision rather than messing people about with oh I have a date so can't see you until after so join the line. How horrid would that be? Also a complete waste of time.

[kendahke]

The OP is dating multiple guys, that's also the same as not taking any guy seriously. I still find it annoying and so feminist that when a guy does the same it's somehow different.

 

Again, non sequitur. Feminism has nothing to do with anything here. Every woman has a right to her own self determination and if that means that she determines you aren't a good fit for her, she's well within her rights to decline a relationship with you or any man. There's not one man who would give that up, so why should a woman?

 

Dating multiple people at a time has nothing to do with not taking anyone seriously. You're dating them, getting to know them to determine if something is there worth pursuing, not having full on relationships replete with obligations and expectations inherent in full on relationships.

 

Dating multiple women at a time isn't the issue. It's screwing multiple women at a time that will cause most women to recoil in disgust. Men will recoil in disgust, too. In fact, most men don't get into relationships with prostitutes for this very same reason.

[kendahke]

Yet your still allowing them in your space, after they have acted weak and rude. Why are you allowing these men in your space in the first place? Instead of dating multiple idiots, why not wait for the right person to come along, and just date him?

 

because dating multiple guys is not having a full on relationship with multiple guys and you are conflating the two.

[giblesp]

because dating multiple guys is not having a full on relationship with multiple guys and you are conflating the two.

 

Well, continue to entertain confused and insecure people in your life in any form, and confused, insecure people is what you'll have in your life. Learn what you want, and how to spot it early. That's how you win in any area.

[giblesp]

I'm not sure how you guys are expecting her to find Mr. Right without talking and interacting with guys. =/ Usually the person you eventually end up with isn't perfect but if you're lucky at the end of the day they're perfect for you. And I don't see anything wrong with Too giving these guys another chance to wow her even after they haven't been perfect. It's a very loving attitude actually.

 

There's no self love in further tolerating a form of abuse. Once a person has shown needy, insecure, disrespectful behaviour its going to happen again. Unless they've just been through a massive period of self work for a prolonged period.

[kendahke]

Well, continue to entertain confused and insecure people in your life in any form, and confused, insecure people is what you'll have in your life. Learn what you want, and how to spot it early. That's how you win in any area.

 

throwing haymakers now.... sad... .smh

 

There will always be a difference between dating and being in a relationship. Dating is not exclusivity/commitment unless a talk has taken place and the two move into relationship territory; nor is it owing someone sex after spending 2 hours in their company. Conflating the two demonstrates that you don't know the difference and pointing that out has nothing to do with my life and how you know nothing about it, save what I think on one topic out of millions.

Edited July 28, 2015 by kendahke

[SycamoreCircle]

I'm not sure how you guys are expecting her to find Mr. Right without talking and interacting with guys. =/ Usually the person you eventually end up with isn't perfect but if you're lucky at the end of the day they're perfect for you.

I agree. There's nothing wrong with dating. But a person who knows who they are and what they want doesn't need an orbit of options. We decide very quickly how we feel about a person. This vacillation is indication that Tood doesn't know how she feels. I argue that the frustration is at least partly with herself.