He's been with hookers?

[xxoo]

 

I'm not entirely sure that is true. Even in porn... men are generally turned on by women enjoying sex with them. This kind of thinking is a epic failure in understanding men.

 

If they enjoyed it, you wouldn't have to pay. If you think prostitutes are enjoying the sex (or porn stars), that is an epic failure in understanding women.

[xxoo]

Thats all BS, stuff that guys like low number say (I myself did as well before!). If you ask any guy that's been with many women (30+), he wouldn't have an issue with hookers. Like I said before, I totally get why male celebs still pay for sex even though they could get it for free.

 

Oh no I said my last post was the last on this. Ok this is my final last

 

It's not BS. It's a reason a man would have low numbers: because he preferred sex in relationships and attracted partners he truly wanted.

[SawtoothMars]

Are you nuts, she just wants/needs the money, she would do it for 10$ if she had to.

This is classic abuse of power, you make her grovel and accept the lower figure, then you give her the full amount, that stokes your ego, makes YOU feel good and somehow benevolent even, and makes her feel very inferior, makes her feel like rubbish, and she will hate you for it.

She knows by haggling, you have her over a barrel, and she will have to do it for the smaller figure and that will upset her. The fact you then pay her more, makes her feel even worse, as you have all the power and she is just some ho to you. You have no respect for her whatsoever, you took her worth down to a low value and then laughed at her and paid her the full amount.

It is not a joke to her, she will resent every second she has to be with you, after that performance.

Attracted to you, are you having a laugh?

 

Some guys think strippers like them too.

 

But the bottom line is that you are both wrong here. If he haggles, any independent prostitute is free to say no... and I believe most do. The difference is in places where prostitution is illegal and the women have quotas to meet, or in street prostitution where the money goes straight to drugs.

[123321]

Are you nuts, she just wants/needs the money, she would do it for 10$ if she had to.

 

....

 

Attracted to you, are you having a laugh?

 

This I sort of agree with. It can go either way and his 'litmus test' is so broken it's not even funny. But if you think hookers are some magical fairytale form of human that's not governed by the same urges and desires as everyone else, you're just as mistaken as he is.

 

I've had sex with hookers without paying them, as such. I'll go into more detail in a second, but it's a fact that (1) his method is meaningless, all it means is that she was willing to do whatever for X amount of money and (2) he's goofy for paying full price after negotiating. Now if he could tell her he wasn't going to pay, and she kept talking, and she offered to go for free, that's a different thing. Still viewed by many as unsavory I suppose, but it happens, and it has happened to me.

 

 

In my case I went into a club, sat down, was enjoying the beer and the floor show (some sort of dance routine involving a lot of scarves and twirling as I recall) and a couple girls came up and started talking. I bought drinks, they stayed, about 3 rounds in they started making offers, and I stated clearly that I wasn't going to rent them. They stayed for a bit more and then when I was ready to go, the first couple (it had grown the 4-5 by then, yay for free drinks) whispered to each other and slipped me a note. They said if I texted them later we could go out on the town. We did, and it was a nice evening.

 

Is that 'paying for sex'?

 

I would say yes, and all guys pay for sex, but I'm a realist.

[123321]

Some guys think strippers like them too.

 

If they go for free, it's a fair assumption IMO, but YMMV.

[SawtoothMars]

If they enjoyed it, you wouldn't have to pay. If you think prostitutes are enjoying the sex (or porn stars), that is an epic failure in understanding women.

 

So you are saying that it is physically impossible for a prostitute to enjoy sex?

 

Look, whether she actually enjoys it or not... in general the guy paying for it... really wants her to! If she has to fake an orgasm then so be it.

 

No matter how you look at it you are completely wrong on this point. Men who buy sex have no extra motives than guys who pick up random girls at bars. You can say maybe they are lazier... or maybe married but that's it.

[123321]

You can say maybe they are lazier... or maybe married but that's it.

 

Or they have more money or their time is worth more?

[xxoo]

So you are saying that it is physically impossible for a prostitute to enjoy sex?

 

Look, whether she actually enjoys it or not... in general the guy paying for it... really wants her to! If she has to fake an orgasm then so be it.

 

In this case, I'll add that he would be too stupid for me to date.

[EveAFlame]

I think for me, I would have a somewhat adverse reaction to the news that a guy I'd embarked on a relationship with had paid prostitutes for sex. The chief concerns I would have would be "may be have STDs?" I've heard people say that prostitutes are actually less likely to have STDs than the average heavy nightclubbing, casual sex having person, but that's a piece of received wisdom I wouldn't really want to be relying on. It's all very nice to imagine the sex industry consisting of highly responsible, sober, non drug abusing women who just happen to not have a hang up about sleeping with strangers for money. However, I'm skeptical of such claims. If a guy has got drunk on some stag weekend and visited a prostitute on a whim, how careful has he really been? How disease free was the woman? It's a risk. On the other hand, at least he's raising the subject which gives you the opportunity to explore such concerns. I'd hope he would at least volunteer to take an STD test to put your mind at rest.

 

As far as the insecurity "were they hotter than me" etc thing goes. Well, they were being paid to do what he wanted. There are male escorts too. Some of them are paid for sex, but there are others who just accompany women to dates. Maybe a woman is visiting a strange city, wants to go out but doesn't want to be alone. So the guy is paid to be Mr Perfect Date and would likely conduct himself (in the course of that date) on a level way above the average guy in terms of being a suave and confident gentleman, showing consideration and generally being the perfect companion. I can't imagine a situation like that not being cringe-inducingly cheesy...but beyond that I wouldn't have much of a judgement about it. And maybe some of these guys are really good at being fun, entertaining and natural companions. Does that mean any boyfriends of women who have paid such men for their services should worry that they don't match up to Mr Escort?

 

Maybe they would, but personally I think it's a bit silly to compare yourself to somebody who's wearing their professional hat when they do whatever it is they do better than you. The prostitute is being paid to please the customer rather than herself. The escort is being paid to please the woman rather than to be himself. Most people would probably want to be with somebody who is with them because they genuinely like them enough to spend time with them....and not because they're being paid to be with them (and to be, say all the things that person wants to see/hear).

 

This guy is with you presumably because he likes you and connects with you. Real you, and not some professional face you're putting on because you've been paid to. But if you carry on seeing him, I do think there are maybe a few things you would need to stay alert to. It's not difficult for somebody to come across as a sweet, caring person in the early stages...but if you start to see signs of narcissism about him then I think you would need to have a higher level of concern about the prostitutes. I think narcissists would gravitate to prostitutes (which is probably why, as somebody else mentioned, quite a few celebrities use prostitutes). Not only are the women doing what they're told to do sexually, rather than seeking out pleasure for themselves...but highly paid escorts are likely very adept at figuring men out quickly and telling them what they want to hear in a convincing way, avoiding challenging them or expressing any criticism etc.

 

Lastly, you often hear men going on about women disliking prostitution because "they feel it devalues their own vaginas". If your guy is prone to commentary like that, then I'd be inclined to cut your losses...because comments like that tell you that this is a guy who really objectifies women (as vaginas - and, furthermore, has such little understanding of women that he assumes they objectify themselves in the same way) as opposed to viewing them as fellow human beings to connect with on a number of levels and to have a healthy adult relationship with.

Wow thanks! Great post (not just you, but lots in this thread!) Thank you so much!

 

Prostitution, in and of itself, well I have issues with it because I feel sad for the men and women who feel it is necessary to sell themselves. Sex, TO ME, is wonderful when given freely and without strings. I also recognize that there are many negative consequences when people have many, many partners. I'm pretty risk averse so...

 

I've been careful with my sexual and reproductive health. Ideally, I'd be with someone who feels the same way. I worry that his willingness to sleep with escorts means that he is not as careful.

 

And for the record, yeah I'd feel the same way if he'd had 100 ONS. It speaks to a difference in the way we view sex. My first time was with another virgin and I LOVED it. I knew I wanted to do it again and again lol but only with someone I cared about.

 

He definitely didn't strike me as a guy who patronized strip clubs and escorts. He seemed like a goofy, happy-go-lucky cute guy! He has not displayed any narcissistic tendencies or even voiced one word that would make me think he sees women as objects. Perhaps he felt like he couldn't get a girlfriend? I don't know. I was attracted to him so I find it hard to believe other women aren't!

[elaine567]

Thats all BS, stuff that guys like low number say (I myself did as well before!). If you ask any guy that's been with many women (30+), he wouldn't have an issue with hookers. Like I said before, I totally get why male celebs still pay for sex even though they could get it for free.

 

Some male celebs pay for sex because celebs in general tend be on the narcissistic side of normal. Narcissists often find prostitutes and paying for sex appealing.

Paying for sex and having women do what they want feeds their ego, they have little empathy nor desire for real relationships and they are pretty misogynistic too, wanting to punish women.

[123321]

Or maybe they just want sex, have a lot of money and a very low tolerance for drama. I propose that Occam's razor favors my proposed explanation.

[SawtoothMars]

Wow thanks! Great post (not just you, but lots in this thread!) Thank you so much!

Prostitution, in and of itself, well I have issues with it because I feel sad for the men and women who feel it is necessary to sell themselves. Sex, TO ME, is wonderful when given freely and without strings. I also recognize that there are many negative consequences when people have many, many partners. I'm pretty risk averse so...

I've been careful with my sexual and reproductive health. Ideally, I'd be with someone who feels the same way. I worry that his willingness to sleep with escorts means that he is not as careful.

And for the record, yeah I'd feel the same way if he'd had 100 ONS. It speaks to a difference in the way we view sex. My first time was with another virgin and I LOVED it. I knew I wanted to do it again and again lol but only with someone I cared about.

He definitely didn't strike me as a guy who patronized strip clubs and escorts. He seemed like a goofy, happy-go-lucky cute guy! He has not displayed any narcissistic tendencies or even voiced one word that would make me think he sees women as objects. Perhaps he felt like he couldn't get a girlfriend? I don't know. I was attracted to him so I find it hard to believe other women aren't!

 

This is pretty much what I have been saying. The fact that it was a prostitute is kind of meaningless. You are either OK with the kind of guy who enjoys One Night Stands... or you are not.

 

It seems like the two of you have different views on sex. That is a solid reason to not move forward... BUT you owe it to him to be honest about why. He was honest with you, so you should return the favor.

[SawtoothMars]

Some male celebs pay for sex because celebs in general tend be on the narcissistic side of normal. Narcissists often find prostitutes and paying for sex appealing.

Paying for sex and having women do what they want feeds their ego, they have little empathy nor desire for real relationships and they are pretty misogynistic too, wanting to punish women.

 

Some of you ladies are kind of clueless. Celebs can get all kinds of women.

 

When they choose prostitutes it is because they can control the situation and expectations are all set up front.

 

You seem to think it's because they want some lady to wear a leash/collar and eat Alpo to turn them on. That's probably easier to find at your local pub than a woman who doesn't expect a phonecall the next day.

[hotpotato]

My assumption would be that he had less sexual experience, or limited, if he had to pay a prostitute for sex.

 

Either way, it's a turn-off to think that he chose to/had to pay for it rather than attracting a woman and having mutually pleasurable sex.

 

:lmao:

Much of the time many guys are seeking to essentially masturbate on a woman. Once again, I guess the guys crime was not taking the girls out to eat first. Btw, that is still paying for it! The difference between john and average thirsty dude on say pof is very slim. Men pay for sex all the time. I guess it would have been better if he had employed some common ways for men to get sex (target drunk girls, manipulate, flat out lie,pua tactics, etc), but heaven forbid if he just pays. I think the problem here is that guy skipped a few steps (wooing) and went for the sex.

 

And many kinds of men get hookers, not just men who cant get none.

[123321]

:lmao:

Much of the time many guys are seeking to essentially masturbate on a woman. Once again, I guess the guys crime was not taking the girls out to eat first. Btw, that is still paying for it! The difference between john and average thirsty dude on say pof is very slim. Men pay for sex all the time. I guess it would have been better if he had employed some common ways for men to get sex (target drunk girls, manipulate, flat out lie,pua tactics, etc), but heaven forbid if he just pays. I think the problem here is that guy skipped a few steps (wooing) and went for the sex.

 

And many kinds of men get hookers, not just men who cant get none.

 

In all fairness, if it was illegal and habitual that could be a red flag IMO.

[xxoo]

:lmao:

Much of the time many guys are seeking to essentially masturbate on a woman. Once again, I guess the guys crime was not taking the girls out to eat first. Btw, that is still paying for it! The difference between john and average thirsty dude on say pof is very slim. Men pay for sex all the time. I guess it would have been better if he had employed some common ways for men to get sex (target drunk girls, manipulate, flat out lie,pua tactics, etc), but heaven forbid if he just pays. I think the problem here is that guy skipped a few steps (wooing) and went for the sex.

 

And many kinds of men get hookers, not just men who cant get none.

 

That's why I said chose to/had to. I understand that some men choose to pay for sex rather than needing to. Regardless, it would be a huge turn off for me. He doesn't even want to bother with trying to seduce a woman. Her actually desiring the sex is irrelevant.

[ascendotum]

Are you nuts, she just wants/needs the money, she would do it for 10$ if she had to.

This is classic abuse of power, you make her grovel and accept the lower figure, then you give her the full amount, that stokes your ego, makes YOU feel good and somehow benevolent even, and makes her feel very inferior, makes her feel like rubbish, and she will hate you for it.

She knows by haggling, you have her over a barrel, and she will have to do it for the smaller figure and that will upset her. The fact you then pay her more, makes her feel even worse, as you have all the power and she is just some ho to you. You have no respect for her whatsoever, you took her worth down to a low value and then laughed at her and paid her the full amount.

It is not a joke to her, she will resent every second she has to be with you, after that performance.

Attracted to you, are you having a laugh?

 

lots of validation and ego stroking goes on in the dating market.

He never had her over a barrel no more then you do when you want to haggle with any service provider. You are free to haggle the next time you need a plumber to fix the washer on your tap. Instead of paying $60 tell them can they do it for $50 that's all you can afford. If they so no then call up the next one and pitch it and tell him if he wants the job its $50. The hooker is welcome to tell him to rack off and wait for the next client. The value of her services is really up to the buyer, not what she thinks its worth, though likely she will set her price at the market rate. The market determines her worth. You might paint a painting and think its worth $1000,but no one buys it. You put it on ebay and the last bid is for $500. That's what it worth and you are committed to sell it. The hooker isn't.

 

If she feels like rubbish...get into another line of work. Ugly women who might want to make easy money on the side selling sex don't because the market is not benevolent. They might feel sad, that no one wants to pay for them. Tough. Older women & over weight women have lower rates again because of what buyers are prepared to pay. CEOs don't care if the local workers feel like rubbish or they have no power when he sacks them and replaces them with Chinese sub-contractors. The CEO doesn't even care if they work in shytty conditions...he just cares about shareholders approving his big fat salary. Many don't seem to care much about the minimal wage worker and how many having to put up with crappy conditions and jerk bosses who can exploit them because they can easily be replaced. Least the hooker is her own boss.

[ascendotum]

He definitely didn't strike me as a guy who patronized strip clubs and escorts. He seemed like a goofy, happy-go-lucky cute guy! He has not displayed any narcissistic tendencies or even voiced one word that would make me think he sees women as objects.

Will you ask future dates, if they have ever enjoyed looking at porn, and subsequently reject them for seeing women as objects? Personally l I don't see the difference in porn and a prostitute or a guy who enjoys ONS in regards to that phrase. Same can be said of women who enjoy porn or ONS/f-buddies.

[Tolu2d]

I FINALLY met a really sweet, smart funny guy and he likes me! The downside is he has admitted to being with prostitutes, hookers, escorts WHATEVER a time or 10 in the past. He's also a strip club aficionado.

 

I'm bummed. Like, really really bummed because I like him but...it just makes my skin crawl. He's been around. I have not.

 

Is there a way I can reconcile myself to his past? We've kissed a few times and I can feel my attraction starting to slip.

 

Many guys to it, but won't admit it. Give the guy a damn chance!

 

Are you so perfect?

[hotpotato]

That's why I said chose to/had to. I understand that some men choose to pay for sex rather than needing to. Regardless, it would be a huge turn off for me. He doesn't even want to bother with trying to seduce a woman. Her actually desiring the sex is irrelevant.

 

Thats penalizing him for not being popular or pre selected by other women. There are men out there who have a lot of negative traits or manipulative (ex pua) or otherwise doesnt care for women and can bed women. That doesnt say much about him.

 

Why should he want to seduce a woman? I guess I may be different, but I dont want a guy trying to court me if hes just looking for sex. Total waste of time, mine and his. *shrug*

 

re:her actually desiring sex, im not sure how relevant that is in general aside from her saying "yes."

[elaine567]

Some of you ladies are kind of clueless. Celebs can get all kinds of women.

 

When they choose prostitutes it is because they can control the situation and expectations are all set up front.

 

You seem to think it's because they want some lady to wear a leash/collar and eat Alpo to turn them on. That's probably easier to find at your local pub than a woman who doesn't expect a phonecall the next day.

 

Who said anything about leash collars or Alpo? And isn't control and expectations up front not exactly what those of a narcissistic bent want?

[xxoo]

Thats penalizing him for not being popular or pre selected by other women. There are men out there who have a lot of negative traits or manipulative (ex pua) or otherwise doesnt care for women and can bed women. That doesnt say much about him.

 

Why should he want to seduce a woman? I guess I may be different, but I dont want a guy trying to court me if hes just looking for sex. Total waste of time, mine and his. *shrug*

 

re:her actually desiring sex, im not sure how relevant that is in general aside from her saying "yes."

 

Yes, it is a turn off to me if a man can not genuinely attract a woman.

 

I don't have a problem with a history including casual sex, as long as both parties wanted the sex. A man who manipulates or pays for sex, rather than seeking to connect and arouse a woman (even just for one night), is a turn off to me.

[elaine567]

:lmao:

Much of the time many guys are seeking to essentially masturbate on a woman. Once again, I guess the guys crime was not taking the girls out to eat first. Btw, that is still paying for it! The difference between john and average thirsty dude on say pof is very slim. Men pay for sex all the time. I guess it would have been better if he had employed some common ways for men to get sex (target drunk girls, manipulate, flat out lie,pua tactics, etc), but heaven forbid if he just pays. I think the problem here is that guy skipped a few steps (wooing) and went for the sex.

 

And many kinds of men get hookers, not just men who cant get none.

 

But this isn't really about the morality of PUA tactics vs Johns, this is about a man's history and ongoing preferences that the OP finds distasteful and turns her off.

We can argue all night about the whys and wherefores and if it is fair or not, but the reality of this situation is she is not now sexually attracted to him.

She is perfectly entitled to her feelings and I reckon quite a lot of women would share her opinion if faced with a similar situation.

I guess many women are not attracted to guys who practise PUA or who merely want hook ups or who are players or get paid to have sex either.

[hotpotato]

But this isn't really about the morality of PUA tactics vs Johns, this is about a man's history and ongoing preferences that the OP finds distasteful and turns her off.

We can argue all night about the whys and wherefores and if it is fair or not, but the reality of this situation is she is not now sexually attracted to him.

She is perfectly entitled to her feelings and I reckon quite a lot of women would share her opinion if faced with a similar situation.

I guess many women are not attracted to guys who practise PUA or who merely want hook ups or who are players or get paid to have sex either.

 

I think most people here agree that if shes turned off by him, its best to cut her losses.

 

The point isnt about puas. That was just an example. The point is that whats turning her off as well as others is actually pretty common. That is, many men are fine paying for sex in some way. Also, men are being penalized for being honest about the transaction.

[123321]

I think most people here agree that if shes turned off by him, its best to cut her losses.

 

The point isnt about puas. That was just an example. The point is that whats turning her off as well as others is actually pretty common. That is, many men are fine paying for sex in some way. Also, men are being penalized for being honest about the transaction.

 

Or more succinctly, I believe, she's making a decision based on emotion, which is fine, but it's foolish to try to then somehow use reason to justify it.