3 months later and where I am at.

[nightmare01]

noirek. I think what you are doing amounts to abuse.

 

For reasons I can't understand your BH is holding on and trying to save his relationship with you. You are continuing to mentally abuse him each time you communicate with this OM. Maybe you are abusing your BH physically too, if you are still hooking up with your OM - you may say this is not so, but you know people lie.. especially cheaters lie most of all. And you are rubbing all this in the face of your husband, tormenting him. Does that give you some kind of a thrill?

 

You are also abusing OM BW by continuing contact with her husband. Are you hoping that she will eventually have enough and divorce him? Maybe that is your end game goal?

 

It just seems to me that you are enjoying causing all this drama and pain, is that boosting your ego?

 

Why are you abusing all these people? What's your justification?

[Noirek]

Which is why I am asking...what is it you are hoping to accomplish by being here?

 

You KNOW that what you are doing goes against the grain of what most people here think....and when they tell you....you seem to become defensive and make statements like this one.

 

You seem to enjoy sharing and taking the opposite side of many of the folks here.

 

So are you here for advice? for help? or for banter? Because that can make a big difference in the way people approach you.

 

I am glad you are going to go for help and i hope you find a good therapist.

 

I am here processing. And venting. I didn't realize I had to take advice and head every post. The post I replied to was insulting to my husband. And I was told not to bother defending him. Which I didn't because there is no point. He as already been judged and nothing I say will change those judgements. And he has no interest in being here. He is not one to care about internet stranger's opinions of him and his actions.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I am here processing. And venting. I didn't realize I had to take advice and head every post. The post I replied to was insulting to my husband. And I was told not to bother defending him. Which I didn't because there is no point. He as already been judged and nothing I say will change those judgements. And he has no interest in being here. He is not one to care about internet stranger's opinions of him and his actions.

 

Ok... now i understand...you are here for the same reason VBM is here. You are using LS as therapy...to vent and process.

 

You don't really want any help or advise...and hey...that's good to know.

[Noirek]

noirek. I think what you are doing amounts to abuse.

 

For reasons I can't understand your BH is holding on and trying to save his relationship with you. You are continuing to mentally abuse him each time you communicate with this OM. Maybe you are abusing your BH physically too, if you are still hooking up with your OM - you may say this is not so, but you know people lie.. especially cheaters lie most of all. And you are rubbing all this in the face of your husband, tormenting him. Does that give you some kind of a thrill?

 

You are also abusing OM BW by continuing contact with her husband. Are you hoping that she will eventually have enough and divorce him? Maybe that is your end game goal?

 

It just seems to me that you are enjoying causing all this drama and pain, is that boosting your ego?

 

Why are you abusing all these people? What's your justification?

 

I see no tormenting in my husband. I did see pain when he discovered I was communicating with MM again. He thought as I thought that MM disgusted me. But the disgust was just a cover artifically put on by me because it is the "right" thing. Now I am just disgusted with my actions. Really it is all there why and I am not sure the need some people feel to ask the same question over and over again.

 

I know people are making up stuff (being physical) and stuff because this situation doesn't make sense. No, I am not physically abusive (wtf). I have not lied here or to my H. My H doesn't know every time MM and I communicate he just knows we do occasionally. I don't say "so, MM is doing x,y,z today." I know that doesn't make it better.

 

Abusing all these people? His wife is none of my concern. She should worry less about me and more about herself and her own marriage. It is complicated but she is not an innocent BS and I don't mean how she treats me either. She also is a WS too. But their marriage and why they stay in it is their business and not mine.

[Noirek]

Ok... now i understand...you are here for the same reason VBM is here. You are using LS as therapy...to vent and process.

 

You don't really want any help or advise...and hey...that's good to know.

 

No, I have got some advice and followed it (like getting a job and working on the therapy). But sarcastic people who take it personally when I don't heed their advice don't really get through to me if you kwim? However, I usually agree with them so I dont mind their input. I don't much care for the people who "know" exactly how I am feeling and add to my story. Or like DK3 who throw my ppd in my face from a few years ago and tell people that's how my marriage is now leading people who haven't read anything to believe that I am a bawling, suicidal mess residing in my bedroom still.

 

I don't know who VBM is but I am sure they don't have to heed everyone's advice either.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I see no tormenting in my husband. I did see pain when he discovered I was communicating with MM again. He thought as I thought that MM disgusted me. But the disgust was just a cover artifically put on by me because it is the "right" thing. Now I am just disgusted with my actions. Really it is all there why and I am not sure the need some people feel to ask the same question over and over again.

 

I know people are making up stuff (being physical) and stuff because this situation doesn't make sense. No, I am not physically abusive (wtf). I have not lied here or to my H. My H doesn't know every time MM and I communicate he just knows we do occasionally. I don't say "so, MM is doing x,y,z today." I know that doesn't make it better.

 

Abusing all these people? His wife is none of my concern. She should worry less about me and more about herself and her own marriage. It is complicated but she is not an innocent BS and I don't mean how she treats me either. She also is a WS too. But their marriage and why they stay in it is their business and not mine.

 

Everything you do Noirek...affects others....whether you want to believe it or not.

 

Every action you take, every decision you make reflects onto other people.

The MM's wife may be pond scum...but you have impacted her life.

 

She is concerned about herself and her marriage...which is why she contacts you. You are a threat to her....you were in a PA or are in an EA with HER husband. As long as you are in the picture...no matter how minutely....you threaten her well being. This is a fact.....not an assumption. You are making a judgment call against her....because she is a WS....kind of like the pot calling the kettle black.

 

I wont give you any advise....because you don't want it. But certainly you can see how twisted this entire situation is. I don't really care...what you do does not affect me one way or the other. No one wins in this story.

 

i will from now on read what you write as a blog...since that seems to be what you want. I wish you the best and hope you get everything you want in life.

[Noirek]

Great advice on this thread, but there is something I have noticed inexplicably about you Noirek,

 

You like to defy men...you will debate with them on your stance in a hot second.

Not so much with the ladies here who disagree with you.

 

Which goes along with your stance against being "forced" by your husband to go NC with a man you betrayed him with.

There is nothing evil about you...no more than there is evil in every other human being. We choose to be evil if the opportunity arises. I read in your post where you say you no longer believe you are evil. You are not.

 

I believe you just don't want the feeling of being controlled. No one does, but your husband is not controlling...you are. You know you should stop contacting this MM, but you use the excuse of not trusting yourself not to break it....well that's not fair to a man that loves you and is burying his own feelings just to stay with you. Of course he is free to leave and I would say that he should because your fetish of cheating is going to ruin him.

 

You still get a bit of a high knowing you are still actively in contact with your MM. And you've got gonads the size of Jupiter to contact the MM after his wife sent you a threatening message. No matter what MM said about not worrying, he isn't with his wife 24/7 and she just might follow through whether you get a restraining order or not. It would be a deserving consequence for not being "forced" into NC. You would just have to deal with another kind of force from the MM's wife. Maybe blunt force trauma.

 

I am not wishing that on you...but it could be a consequence for keeping in contact with a woman's husband you had an affair with.

 

The most she would do is drag my name through the mud and slap my face. She is a huge control freak and really has a hard time taking responsibility for her own actions. "Oh your okay with me sleeping with your husband? Great". "Oh, your not okay with it? A little to late..." But that's all I'm going to say on that.

 

I realize this is all messed up. But you have no idea what it was like to think I was completely free of my behaviour and desire for MM only to have it knock me off my feet. I despaired. But I feel less despair over it now. I am all over the place on here now but my actual weaning feelings.

 

I don't actually know who is male and who isn't fully here. I hate when someone male or female makes cheating about gender, that is true. And I hate to see a spouse under another spouse grovelling at their feet years past DDay. Gender has nothing to do with it.

 

I'm not really controlling. Doing my own thing is not controlling. Making other people do what I think they should is. There are women on here I have disagreed with. Some because I just disagree with their POV and others because of their tone. If it seems it has been more men. That is coincidental. Outside of this here discussion one of my biggest debates is with feminists.

[LifesontheUp]

I see no tormenting in my husband. I did see pain when he discovered I was communicating with MM again. He thought as I thought that MM disgusted me. But the disgust was just a cover artifically put on by me because it is the "right" thing. Now I am just disgusted with my actions. Really it is all there why and I am not sure the need some people feel to ask the same question over and over again.

 

I know people are making up stuff (being physical) and stuff because this situation doesn't make sense. No, I am not physically abusive (wtf). I have not lied here or to my H. My H doesn't know every time MM and I communicate he just knows we do occasionally. I don't say "so, MM is doing x,y,z today." I know that doesn't make it better.

 

Abusing all these people? His wife is none of my concern. She should worry less about me and more about herself and her own marriage. It is complicated but she is not an innocent BS and I don't mean how she treats me either. She also is a WS too. But their marriage and why they stay in it is their business and not mine.

 

I truly hope you get to a therapist soon. The damage you are doing to your own family and your AP family is destructive.

 

I cannot believe that you are basically saying the AP wife deserves it? That's how it comes across to me.

 

You sound annoyed to hell that your AP won't leave his wife. Is that the problem?

[Noirek]

Noirek, every here is actually wanting you to stop the abuse. So many here put themselves in your husbands shoes and feel his pain.

 

I think it's wonderful that you've greatly reduce the contact with MM. But finding out that his BW is also onto you just added a new twist that makes me scratch my head and wonder what is her deal.

 

This MM of yours is a POS. My wish would be for your BH to personally confront him in a stronger manner in person. This is the man that ****ed the mother of his kids. I think that more BHs should do that.

 

We, my husband and I, believe that I was responsible for my actions. And it is primitive to blame the other person. Is he responsible? Yes. If I had sent NC and he was not respecting that would my H confront him? Yes. But as a willing party, confrontation is just desperation.

[Noirek]

I truly hope you get to a therapist soon. The damage you are doing to your own family and your AP family is destructive.

 

I cannot believe that you are basically saying the AP wife deserves it? That's how it comes across to me.

 

You sound annoyed to hell that your AP won't leave his wife. Is that the problem?

 

She doesn't deserve it and actually it is her that I wish would set herself free. She isn't happy with him for good reason and all her friends wish she would kick his butt out. I guess staying with a seriel cheater has really changed who she is. However, she has long blamed me and come after me, even when him and I were not talking, and after a while you just want to say "lay the blame on your husband, make him behave, stop trying to control my behaviour."

[Noirek]

Problem I see is you are breaking NC and there is no justification for it.

 

 

Tell the BW you are sorry for and regret your part in her pain. If see wants to ask you anything about the affair you will gladly to talk on the phone then you will need to be NC with her as well as her WH. Close this with that continued contact and you will go to the police for a restraining order.

 

Oh, I already told her everything. She just didn't believe it.

[SoulStorm]

I'm not really controlling. Doing my own thing is not controlling. Making other people do what I think they should is.

 

I was not talking about controlling other people, but you are controlling this NC situation with your husband. He has asked you to stop. You say you can't completely, so he compromises because he loves you.

 

I don't put gender bias on cheating...that was never said in my post. You know what this is doing to you..your husband and even the MM's wife.

 

 

I do commend you for slowing the contact and changing the way you feel about the MM. No matter what marriage problems that MM and his wife are having, you should at least have the intelligence to not add to them. you are intelligent in your rebuttals that's for sure. Their marriage problems are being compounded by you, so in a sense a part of their problem is you.

[Noirek]

Then you can call me a cave man but that POS would be to ****ing scared to take a call or email for you. I wouldn't expect you to understand. I'm a man. The mother of my kids is mine. If someone ****s with my **** there's going to be trouble.

 

Fortunatly my husband has evolved past caveman and does not view me as chattel lacking on free will. If I was not making my own choices in this or in danger you bet he would be there to protect me. He actually did step in when I was being threatened to my face by a very angry guy at a bar back in our dating days. However, my free will is why he remains silent.

[Noirek]

I was not talking about controlling other people, but you are controlling this NC situation with your husband. He has asked you to stop. You say you can't completely, so he compromises because he loves you.

 

I don't put gender bias on cheating...that was never said in my post. You know what this is doing to you..your husband and even the MM's wife.

 

 

I do commend you for slowing the contact and changing the way you feel about the MM. No matter what marriage problems that MM and his wife are having, you should at least have the intelligence to not add to them. you are intelligent in your rebuttals that's for sure. Their marriage problems are being compounded by you, so in a sense a part of their problem is you.

 

You do have a good point. MM has become rather whiney for lack of a better term about his marriage. Something that was never there. He feels trapped or whatever. I really don't want to be apart of his Drama. This recent contact by her came after months and months of silence so I am really still processing it. I didn't realize she still cared. We are talking a guy who goes out with females all the time and drinks on their home and is alone with them a lot. And yet, I'm the one that she threatens.

[SoulStorm]

You do have a good point. MM has become rather whiney for lack of a better term about his marriage. Something that was never there. He feels trapped or whatever. I really don't want to be apart of his Drama. This recent contact by her came after months and months of silence so I am really still processing it. I didn't realize she still cared. We are talking a guy who goes out with females all the time and drinks on their home and is alone with them a lot. And yet, I'm the one that she threatens.

 

She threatens you because of your emotional connection to him. Maybe she can handle a few drunken trysts, but an emotional one threatens her.

[Noirek]

How egalitarian. That sounds nice on paper but that type of thinking has his wife pining for another man. Totally destabilizing his kids family.

 

In the last few post, I'm sensing that hubby was plan b. Why weren't you able to leave for MM? Was it that MM was to much of a bitch to pull the trigger on a D of his marriage? Was it that you knew him being a serial cheater that it would end well for you?

 

Egalitarian, thank you for the compliment.

 

You sense wrong. Even if I was unmarried, I would never be with MM. If my H kicked me out today I would go to my parents until I got my own place. The last person I would go to would be MM. I really think this attraction is more about the bad side of me and what he represents as opposed to actual attraction. Which is why I didn't enjoy the hug. seems like an awfully big risk over nothing. I know. But it is what it is.

[Noirek]

She threatens you because of your emotional connection to him. Maybe she can handle a few drunken trysts, but an emotional one threatens her.

 

Originally it was strictly PA and it still bothered her (when she gave her permission). If she hasn't read our emails she may think we are future faking or whatever.

[Noirek]

Jsmart-

 

My husband is not dumb. He does not act before he thinks. And he would not do anything illegal because of what I choose to do of my own free will. If he were to threaten OM and get reported, he would be in big trouble. Where we live you have to have hand guns registered and the police have record of that. If someone who own hand guns makes a threat things are a lot harder on that person. People who encourage that sort of threatening behaviour could get the person in a lot of trouble. And over what? Some skank who couldn't keep her legs closed?

[Noirek]

But you're not some skank. You're his wife and mother of his children.

 

I'm not saying for him to shove a Glock into POS's mouth. Just to put ****head in his place.

 

It is impossible to "put someone in his place" without threats of some sort. Even his wife's comment to me was a threat. "Or else" "you better". He could say "stop talking to my wife". But then that would engage the MM and start a conversation where emotions could esculate and threats could happen.

 

He could always beg and plead but that is not something my H would do.

[Mazerati]

We, my husband and I, believe that I was responsible for my actions. And it is primitive to blame the other person. Is he responsible? Yes. If I had sent NC and he was not respecting that would my H confront him? Yes. But as a willing party, confrontation is just desperation.

 

Regardless of what the OM and his BW do or say, this is what I see and have always seen with OP, the word "WE". Throughout OP's posts she has been pragmatic and very hard on herself. Her BH has been there with her, and is fully aware. He is helping her with recovery I have not seen OP sugarcoat anything. OP does not wish to revert back, but has this nagging doubt about herself. Despite her logic, she is concerned. She admitted NC did not work, but has been weaning herself with each subsequent contact she has becoming negligible. Perhaps if the OM BW would leave OP be then NC would be moot. Possibly what bothers OP more was her inability to read a serial cheater, a major whiner, and by allowing herself to be seduced, which seems to contradict her logicalness. That troubles her greatly.

Recovery from infidelity takes on many forms. What is working for Noirek, is what it is. Her self flagellation IMHO may derail her marriage recovery. In an earlier post I suggested positives for OP to consider instead of focusing on her fall. I believe it is in her best interest to corral this, and think therapy would assist.

I have admired her comments on other posts for the objectivity displayed. And while OP's recovery practices may not be the "norm" if her and her husband are happy then who am I to judge?

 

Wishing you well, and once more I believe in you.

 

Maz

Edited April 5, 2015 by Mazerati

[sammy7111]

How are you going to explain all this to your kids when they get older and find out that there father is a cuckold. That there mother has no value on marraige. That they can't trust a word that comes out of her mouth. And there father doesn't have a back bone. The best thing he could do for his kids right now is leave you and show them this kind of actions don't work. But I'm thinking he doesn't really care what you do because his getting his side action to.

[Noirek]

Men don't beg. Of course the confrontation has the threat of violence. Of all the things in a man's life to fight over nothing comes as close as the wife and mother of his kids.

 

Oh sigh*

 

Now we are going in circles. I never suggested that he would threaten him with a gun.

 

However, and I'll only say this once. Any threat given, even an "or else" is not taken lightly if MM reported it. My H as a gun owner is not allowed to go there. And even if he was he is a grown up who makes rational descisions and realizes where the blame lays, and that is at my feet. He can't be spending his whole life threatening guys I engage with away so why start now? It is simplisitic and desperate reasoning that prompts such behaviour.

 

Even if he did threaten MM and I never heard from him again, that doesn't change who I am and my propensity to cheat. It is a fool's errand and proves nothing.

[LifeWasted]

Can I switch gears here?

 

Okay you say that much of this continued EA with the OM has to do with satisfying the needs of your dark passenger....

 

Got that.

 

May I ask what you do to build your betrayed husband up? What do you do for him to sooth his pain and make him feel like he is at least getting 50% of your love?

 

What do you do for him to demonstrate to him that he is not plan b, that he is more desirable than your boyfriend; that if everyone died on the planet and only you, him and your boyfriend were the only three people left on the planet, you would choose him?

 

What have you done to help heal his fractured masculinity?

 

And please don't fall back on "being the best mom you can be to your kids". You would have to do that if your jilted husband was around or not.

[Hope Shimmers]

Some skank who couldn't keep her legs closed?

 

that doesn't change who I am and my propensity to cheat.

 

But it is what it is.

 

I'm sorry but this poor-me attitude is just getting you nowhere. I visualize you laying on one of those Victorian fainting couches with the back of your hand over your eyes, proclaiming, "Woe is me, this is just who I am."

 

The fact is, you are NOT that person and your posts on other threads prove it. Those posts are well thought out, fair balanced, compassionate, and objective. But when you post on your own thread it's like Jekyll and Hyde. You are unrecognizable.

 

All you want to do is fall back on "this is who I am" as an excuse not to do anything different. I'll never understand that. It's not easy, but it's simple - go look on the OW forum and see what women SUCCESSFULLY have gone through in achieving NC. Look at the effort they have put in and these are women (and men) who appear to be much more emotionally invested in their AP than you claim to be. If you don't give a damn about this guy, then there really is no excuse for you not to Just. Do. It. Just don't contact him again! How hard could that possibly be if you don't care about him and you love your H? Why are you not at least trying? There is no reason you can't do this, except in YOUR head.

 

I honestly don't know if you just like the attention you get with this attitude, or what. Based on some of your replies I'm starting to get the impression that you enjoy bantering with people who are disturbed by the astonishing lack of remorse and respect for your husband that you are displaying.

 

Furthermore, believe it or not, you are putting not only yourself but your entire family, including your children, AT RISK by continuing this despite the BSs warnings of violence to you. You might 'think' she wouldn't do anything, but you can't possibly predict other people's behavior. This is her husband! I don't care if she's a WS or if she is as pure as the driven snow. You are infringing on her family and her spouse and she may very well crack one of these days and inflict some real violence on you or your family. And all because you were too apathetic to stop contacting your AP whom you say you don't care about! Lady, you need to wake up. If you don't think these violent things happen then read the news. She has given you multiple warnings; why are you not taking it seriously?

 

I just find this whole attitude insulting to the pain and effort that OW on the other board go through to achieve NC with ex-MM/MW who they LOVE. I find it insulting and demeaning to them and their efforts and their pain that you just sit around and make excuses why you can't do it, and don't even try.

 

That is just my opinion. I don't mean to come across as 'mean' to you; just to give my own personal input. I don't know if you intend this thread as more of a blog, although clearly you don't want advice. However, this is a forum where people give/receive relationship advice so I'm going to do that, despite the fact that it will likely fall on deaf ears. Maybe there is someone else out there in your situation who will wake up.

[Noirek]

Can I switch gears here?

 

Okay you say that much of this continued EA with the OM has to do with satisfying the needs of your dark passenger....

 

Got that.

 

May I ask what you do to build your betrayed husband up? What do you do for him to sooth his pain and make him feel like he is at least getting 50% of your love?

 

What do you do for him to demonstrate to him that he is not plan b, that he is more desirable than your boyfriend; that if everyone died on the planet and only you, him and your boyfriend were the only three people left on the planet, you would choose him?

 

What have you done to help heal his fractured masculinity?

 

And please don't fall back on "being the best mom you can be to your kids". You would have to do that if your jilted husband was around or not.

 

We talk, we hangout, we have sex. We plan our future and live everyday. We have a couple hobbies we do together. He appreciates acts of service so I fond he enjoys the little things like making the bed and cleaning after myself. I'm a bit of a slob to his neat freakness so even though an unmade bed or pile of dirty dishes isn't a big deal to me, i know it is to him so I try to keep ontop of that. He was feeling financially strained so I got a new job that relieves thag burden, a lot. I am not naturally a physically affectionate person but I know he is so I have taught myself to be. I cook too. I do not want to be a princess who has her every need catered to her.

 

We do argue but I try to keep my emotions in check and apologize quickly.

 

But sometimes, now every odd week or so, I reply to MM with a friendly email. I guess my husband just doesn't see this detox of mine as something he should end his marriage over. Do I agree with him? No. Am I grateful? Very much. And when I can finally be free of the dark me, I hope to never find myself in this place again. I will never deserve him. That was done the first time I had sex with MM. But hopefully I can give him some wonderful years if he is still here.