3 months later and where I am at.

[DKT3]

It actually happens? Maybe. I am not sure though. I am hardly in a place to be upset at him for hypothetically doing what I am doing. I might be wrong about my reaction but I don't think so. Not that it fully matters because as far as I know there is no OW.

 

But is it worth risking your marriage for?

 

It appears your husband will allow this to continue, now the question is why? A few reasons come to mind. 1) he doesn't care 2) is doing the same or similar 3) enjoys the idea of you being with another man 4) too weak to do anything about it.

 

Now with that said and all your talk about free will and all, what would you do if your husband said stop or I walk. Honest answer.

[sammy7111]

I'm with everone else your husband is upto something or he would make you stop

[Noirek]

I imagine the fact that he is still taking your abuse gives you the confidence that you wouldn't be bothered. Why would you be bothered if someone wanted a person you have no respect for.

 

Knowing that his wife and mother of his kids still wants to bang OM must really destroy him inside. His confidence is so shot that he tolerates this level of betrayal. Which must make him seem lackluster compared to OM, who must seem so bold and dynamic by comparison.

 

Keep guessing, you are quite far off.

 

Or accept you are no him or me and therefore do not understand the dynamic. If you actually read my posts and didn't insert your own words in you would see.

 

I am completely attracted to my husband. Despite my actions I don't see him as weak or deserving of this at all. We are happy. MM has been reduced at this point to nothing more than a pen pal. I email him maybe once a week. But, I'm still not promising fidelity until I know I won't go down that path again.

 

But I did it once, I don't know if I ever will know that. I thought I did and then we broke NC.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Noirek

[I_Give_Up67]

Noirek- I read back through your older threads. Forgive me if I missed something, but if I've read correctly, you have not PA with the OM since your DDay?

[Noirek]

As a man, I have to look at actions not words. Doing all of the household chores and bringing home a paycheck doesn't absolves you of your betrayal. Neither can your self flagellation that you've been doing by preemptively calling yourself evil.

 

It's actually good that you're heading in the right direction in terms of the time and emotional energy that you give to MM. But you honestly believe that your husband is truly happy after what you put him through this past year?

 

If he isn't he missed his calling to be an actor.

[Noirek]

Noirek- I read back through your older threads. Forgive me if I missed something, but if I've read correctly, you have not PA with the OM since your DDay?

 

I have not been physical with MM in 2 years. We had an awkward and very brief "friend" hug.

[Mazerati]

I have not been physical with MM in 2 years. We had an awkward and very brief "friend" hug.

 

I have admired your practicality and views here on LS. Your words have helped a lot of people. You are still in contact with your MM, and are slowly weaning away. Posters have stressed NC but as you freely state, it didn't work for you.

Two years, no PA deserves accolades, and to be honest the EA is virtually non-existent.

Your husband is happy, and I hope you are happy too. I appreciate your venting here, and "putting yourself down". Therapeutic I'm sure. Also therapeutic is to speak positives too which can be much more difficult.

What is good about you?

What is good in your marriage?

Good is a relative term, so better may be positive.

Think about those things, and push aside your fear of treading down that dark path again. No one can predict the future, but every day we do the correct thing pushes the past indiscretions into the recesses of the mind.

Congratulations on the path you have chosen.

Whether you choose to and someday I hope you do. But for now know that:

"I believe in you"

 

Maz

[I_Give_Up67]

I have admired your practicality and views here on LS. Your words have helped a lot of people. You are still in contact with your MM, and are slowly weaning away. Posters have stressed NC but as you freely state, it didn't work for you.

Two years, no PA deserves accolades, and to be honest the EA is virtually non-existent.

Your husband is happy, and I hope you are happy too. I appreciate your venting here, and "putting yourself down". Therapeutic I'm sure. Also therapeutic is to speak positives too which can be much more difficult.

What is good about you?

What is good in your marriage?

Good is a relative term, so better may be positive.

Think about those things, and push aside your fear of treading down that dark path again. No one can predict the future, but every day we do the correct thing pushes the past indiscretions into the recesses of the mind.

Congratulations on the path you have chosen.

Whether you choose to and someday I hope you do. But for now know that:

"I believe in you"

 

Maz

 

 

 

 

Noirek-

 

 

Maz really sums it up better than I ever could! The only thing I would add is that it may be time to forgive yourself.

 

You were then and still are honest with your BH about your actions and feelings. I respect the way you both have handled and coped with this.

[twosadthings]

Calling yourself evil likely takes the sting out of someone, anyone else questioning your thoughts and actions. Accepting that you're no good is so much easier than being what you know is good.

 

 

You talk about 50 hour workweeks, household chores, time spent with your family so you know how to put out an effort so it can't be a laziness that makes the above acknowledgement about yourself acceptable to you. When you know that you're doing something wrong, bad and stupid, the worst thing you can do is to keep doing it unless you want your world and the world of those you love to blow apart.

 

 

I'm by no means anyone with a psychology background but I remember my adult son telling me a few years back that he took some measure of enjoyment from feeling miserable. It sounds incomprehensible to me how that can be but can you say that you haven't felt the same? I am far from a fan of therapy but it would seem to be something you could use to figure yourself and the damaging things you do out.

 

 

Don't give up and good luck,

 

 

Twosadthings

[DKT3]

But here is the thing, its not a good marriage and her husband isn't happy. In her threads she talks about issues in their sex life, she talks about being so depressed that she doesn't leave her room, she talks about the pain in her husbands eyes when she admits to making contact with the OM. That isn't the foundation of a happy marriage.

 

Her calling it happy and her husband happy takes away from her guilt of this long term abuse that she subjects him to.

 

In my opinion she does this to spur him into action, I don't know what action she is looking for, maybe she wants him to end the marriage, maybe she wants him to do more in helping her end the affair once and for all. She has repeatedly avoided questions along these lines, so who knows.

 

I know from what she has posted here since fall of last year, it isn't a "HAPPY" marriage.

[Babs22]

I felt I owed you as much. I was truly grateful for your attention and clarity in nailing certain interactions in my situation. You didn't have to do it.

 

My wish for you is to get some help. You're killing yourself and I think the understanding you would get from psychology would surprise you. What WSs normally do — all the defense mechanisms — they do BECAUSE they simply can't handle the torture of acknowledging the truth of their actions.

 

Check it out: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201110/the-essential-guide-defense-mechanisms

 

But you, Noirek, are so weird! You don't rationalize/deny/intellectualize/etc, etc. Instead of defense mechanisms, you allow the pain. Maybe you secretly feel that's a kind of payment or absolution? Seems like you do whatever you feel is wrong, then call it and yourself evil and come to LS for help, I suppose. Well, what I've been trying to say is that I think this is out of our league. Mine anyway. But it's funny, that you and Mrs. Adams are the only WSs who ever touched me. Precisely because of your honesty. Only she got some good help for it. That itself seems to me a great place to start. A good therapist knows what to do with that kind of ruthless honesty and will get you straight to feelings and choices. I mean I'm guessing - and that's the point. We're talking about who you are, the very core of your being because you don't seem to protect those inner workings very well. I'm hands off at this level and say find a qualified professional. It's money that saves lives, yours as well as your family's. I won't give up on you.

 

Noirek, I have to agree with merrmeade on this one. I went back and read your original post and many of the replies on it. I have also read this post and many of the replies. I know you do not believe in counseling, but I think you could really benefit from it. You keep beating yourself up, saying you are evil, etc. You talk about how amazing your husband is, and this sounds very true, but you keep saying how you don't deserve him. I honestly believe you are trying to sabotage your relationship and your happiness because you do not feel you deserve any of it. You won't give up on MM until you stop trying to sabotage your life and your relationships. You need to at least like yourself first, and from your posts, I am not hearing a person who likes herself. Yes, you made a mistake, you made two mistakes, that does not make you unworthy of love. That does not make you evil. Your husband, I think, knows this. He knows what you have been through with the PPD, it sounds like you were in a very dark place. As you stated you have been treated by a psychiatrist and suffered from terrible depression. The depression may have lifted but you seem to be left with some self hatred or self loathing. I know you do not want to hurt your husband and I believe you love him, but you don't love yourself.

 

My 17 year old son suffers from bipolar and severe depression. We finally found a psychiatrist who does the psychotherapy and medications. Only doing medications is not working. I do not think anyone can understand mental illness until they live with it (or through it). I really hope you can find a counselor who can help. I know this is not always easy. We have been through many to find one that works. You owe it to yourself (although I am sure you don't think so) and you owe it to your family to find a therapist or a doctor who can help. I hope you can find the help you need and realize that you do deserve happiness.

[Noirek]

But here is the thing, its not a good marriage and her husband isn't happy. In her threads she talks about issues in their sex life, she talks about being so depressed that she doesn't leave her room, she talks about the pain in her husbands eyes when she admits to making contact with the OM. That isn't the foundation of a happy marriage.

 

Her calling it happy and her husband happy takes away from her guilt of this long term abuse that she subjects him to.

 

In my opinion she does this to spur him into action, I don't know what action she is looking for, maybe she wants him to end the marriage, maybe she wants him to do more in helping her end the affair once and for all. She has repeatedly avoided questions along these lines, so who knows.

 

I know from what she has posted here since fall of last year, it isn't a "HAPPY" marriage.

 

We had sex issues in the past. Not anymore. I also had severe postpartum after my son. So if you bring up my unhappiness then please give all the facts. Our marriage isn't perfect all the time. I haven't been suicidal in almost two years. I have not just sat in my room in the dark in longer than that. My husband is stressed from time to time but we really do get along well. Not perfect all the time but good.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Noirek...I have now read your two threads and I have a better understanding of where you are coming from.

 

I would like to ask you...what is it you are hoping to gain by sharing on ls?

What do you need from this community?

 

I ask because I sincerely want to know. I am not here to hurt you or to judge you or to throw stones...I want to understand you better and to provide you with the assistance you are asking for...if I can. I certainly don't have all the answers...

[LifeWasted]

We had sex issues in the past. Not anymore. I also had severe postpartum after my son. So if you bring up my unhappiness then please give all the facts. Our marriage isn't perfect all the time. I haven't been suicidal in almost two years. I have not just sat in my room in the dark in longer than that. My husband is stressed from time to time but we really do get along well. Not perfect all the time but good.

 

Who's is?

 

Can I ask you something? Do you believe that there are perfect marriages out there, where the husband and wife are 100% sympatico? Having the same blissful romance twenty years on in the marriage as they had on their honeymoon?

 

Well, such a marriage does not exist. Marriage is hard. Hard. Requiring daily commitment on the part of both people.

 

Why do things have to be perfect? Why is that you stray when you feel things are not perfect?

 

I see a both self-hate and perfectionism in you. That is a bad combination. Your husband is most likely putting up with this lifestyle you have created because he doesn't think he can find anything better. He has probably been so emasculated by your antics that his self esteem is sub-zero.

 

I wish you would set him free to find a healthy person to share the rest of his life with. You are unwilling to seek help for yourself, you make excuses and you run to others when the going gets tough. You do not have what it takes to be a safe partner to any man. I think you need to admit you are not marriage material and free him and then get on with your life.

[Noirek]

Who's is?

 

Can I ask you something? Do you believe that there are perfect marriages out there, where the husband and wife are 100% sympatico? Having the same blissful romance twenty years on in the marriage as they had on their honeymoon?

 

Well, such a marriage does not exist. Marriage is hard. Hard. Requiring daily commitment on the part of both people.

 

Why do things have to be perfect? Why is that you stray when you feel things are not perfect?

 

I see a both self-hate and perfectionism in you. That is a bad combination. Your husband is most likely putting up with this lifestyle you have created because he doesn't think he can find anything better. He has probably been so emasculated by your antics that his self esteem is sub-zero.

 

I wish you would set him free to find a healthy person to share the rest of his life with. You are unwilling to seek help for yourself, you make excuses and you run to others when the going gets tough. You do not have what it takes to be a safe partner to any man. I think you need to admit you are not marriage material and free him and then get on with your life.

 

Oh no you misunderstand me. I don't need a perfect marriage. DK3 js just convinced my marriage is bad. That is all.

 

Husband and I actually had a very candid conversation this morning prompted by a message from OBS. He is glad I am in a much better place emotionally when it comes to MM.

 

I have admitted, today actually, that I am not marriage materiel. My husband isn't ready to end our marriage or my contact with MM yet. I think I have said it a thousand times. I won't be divorcing my husband. But if it is what he wants then I will not take a penny from him. Even though because of the place we live being in my parent's and our names things will be tricky. But I have decided I still will be the one to leave. If it comes down to that.

 

Now it is easter and we are spending it with his family. I am finally on my days off after two weeks of work. I hope you all have a wonderful holiday weekend despite the bad in your life! Take care.

[Mazerati]

Oh no you misunderstand me. I don't need a perfect marriage. DK3 js just convinced my marriage is bad. That is all.

 

Husband and I actually had a very candid conversation this morning prompted by a message from OBS. He is glad I am in a much better place emotionally when it comes to MM.

 

I have admitted, today actually, that I am not marriage materiel. My husband isn't ready to end our marriage or my contact with MM yet. I think I have said it a thousand times. I won't be divorcing my husband. But if it is what he wants then I will not take a penny from him. Even though because of the place we live being in my parent's and our names things will be tricky. But I have decided I still will be the one to leave. If it comes down to that.

 

Now it is easter and we are spending it with his family. I am finally on my days off after two weeks of work. I hope you all have a wonderful holiday weekend despite the bad in your life! Take care.

 

Happy Easter Noirek, enjoy the holiday.

Not marriage material? Meh.....

One day at a time!!!!

 

Maz

[JohnAdams]

I have admitted, today actually, that marriage materiel. My husband isn't ready to end our marriage or my contact with MM yet. I think I have said it a thousand times. I won't be divorcing my husband. .

 

I just read your story for the first time. I cannot believe your husband is putting up with this. You do not even seem to want to fix it. So, what are you saving? You want to stay married you will not go no contact with the om. From reading your story, I do not know what you are looking for. You are certainly not taking steps to fix it.

[Noirek]

I just read your story for the first time. I cannot believe your husband is putting up with this. You do not even seem to want to fix it. So, what are you saving? You want to stay married you will not go no contact with the om. From reading your story, I do not know what you are looking for. You are certainly not taking steps to fix it.

 

I am taking steps. Just not the step that I "should". Not yet. This morning I recieved my usual threatening message from his wife. I showed it to my husband. I contacted MM and told him about it and asked him If I should be worried (physical threatening). He told me "no". It will probably be a while before he contacts me again. And you know what?

 

I don't care as much as I did the last time. It may seem strange and I realize that any other spouse would have had me out the door. But not being forced into NC by myself or my husband seems to be working for me.

 

So that is where I am at. I am calling to make an appointment tuesday to see a therapist. Hopefully I can find a good one fast.

[LifeWasted]

The only sense I can make, is that your husband is either a total milquetoast, or he is in an affair of his own.

 

And please don't defend your husband. What he is doing...allowing you to continue on with your EA...is not honorable or brave or sacrificing. It boggles the mind that a self respecting man would allow himself to be treated this way, unless he no longer has any self respect.

[Noirek]

The only sense I can make, is that your husband is either a total milquetoast, or he is in an affair of his own.

 

And please don't defend your husband. What he is doing...allowing you to continue on with your EA...is not honorable or brave or sacrificing. It boggles the mind that a self respecting man would allow himself to be treated this way, unless he no longer has any self respect.

 

That is fine. It is easy to be judgemental and critical of people who do not think or act like you. Or things you don't understand.

[jbrent890]

The only sense I can make, is that your husband is either a total milquetoast, or he is in an affair of his own.

 

And please don't defend your husband. What he is doing...allowing you to continue on with your EA...is not honorable or brave or sacrificing. It boggles the mind that a self respecting man would allow himself to be treated this way, unless he no longer has any self respect.

 

To be honest his behavior is kind of freaking me out. I'm worried that one day he is going to snap. I really do not think it isnt healthy for him to be rug sweeping this the way that he is. Noerik, I really do think you need to be vigilant here. I have a feeling one of these days the other shoe is going to drop and it's not going to be pretty.

[Noirek]

To be honest his behavior is kind of freaking me out. I'm worried that one day he is going to snap. I really do not think it isnt healthy for him to be rug sweeping this the way that he is. Noerik, I really do think you need to be vigilant here. I have a feeling one of these days the other shoe is going to drop and it's not going to be pretty.

 

I'm not sure communicating is considered rug sweeping? I appreciate the concern. Physically, he would never do anything. As far as anything else, I would deserve what I get.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Noirek

[Mrs. John Adams]

That is fine. It is easy to be judgemental and critical of people who do not think or act like you. Or things you don't understand.

 

 

Which is why I am asking...what is it you are hoping to accomplish by being here?

 

You KNOW that what you are doing goes against the grain of what most people here think....and when they tell you....you seem to become defensive and make statements like this one.

 

You seem to enjoy sharing and taking the opposite side of many of the folks here.

 

So are you here for advice? for help? or for banter? Because that can make a big difference in the way people approach you.

 

I am glad you are going to go for help and i hope you find a good therapist.

[road]

I am taking steps. Just not the step that I "should". Not yet. This morning I recieved my usual threatening message from his wife. I showed it to my husband. I contacted MM and told him about it and asked him If I should be worried (physical threatening). He told me "no". It will probably be a while before he contacts me again. And you know what?

 

I don't care as much as I did the last time. It may seem strange and I realize that any other spouse would have had me out the door. But not being forced into NC by myself or my husband seems to be working for me.

 

So that is where I am at. I am calling to make an appointment tuesday to see a therapist. Hopefully I can find a good one fast.

 

 

 

 

Problem I see is you are breaking NC and there is no justification for it.

 

 

Tell the BW you are sorry for and regret your part in her pain. If see wants to ask you anything about the affair you will gladly to talk on the phone then you will need to be NC with her as well as her WH. Close this with that continued contact and you will go to the police for a restraining order.

[SoulStorm]

Great advice on this thread, but there is something I have noticed inexplicably about you Noirek,

 

You like to defy men...you will debate with them on your stance in a hot second.

Not so much with the ladies here who disagree with you.

 

Which goes along with your stance against being "forced" by your husband to go NC with a man you betrayed him with.

There is nothing evil about you...no more than there is evil in every other human being. We choose to be evil if the opportunity arises. I read in your post where you say you no longer believe you are evil. You are not.

 

I believe you just don't want the feeling of being controlled. No one does, but your husband is not controlling...you are. You know you should stop contacting this MM, but you use the excuse of not trusting yourself not to break it....well that's not fair to a man that loves you and is burying his own feelings just to stay with you. Of course he is free to leave and I would say that he should because your fetish of cheating is going to ruin him.

 

You still get a bit of a high knowing you are still actively in contact with your MM. And you've got gonads the size of Jupiter to contact the MM after his wife sent you a threatening message. No matter what MM said about not worrying, he isn't with his wife 24/7 and she just might follow through whether you get a restraining order or not. It would be a deserving consequence for not being "forced" into NC. You would just have to deal with another kind of force from the MM's wife. Maybe blunt force trauma.

 

I am not wishing that on you...but it could be a consequence for keeping in contact with a woman's husband you had an affair with.