Irony of an Affair

[AlwaysGrowing]

Pop tart,

 

Are there waywards that deliberately, with forethought, investigate having an affair and use hookup sites to achieve that goal. Absolutely. No foggy thinking at all in regard to where it is going and the intent.

 

Did a wayward who crossed co-worker/friend lines use the same thought processes to get there. No.

 

Is the end result the same. Yes

 

To me, there can be two "truths" at play during the affair. The "truth" the WS creates for themselves (we are just friends, it's harmless, hey...you know what...now that I think about it...my spouse is a POS, Co-worker sure is a great catch, if only I had met them first, you know what....F%#% that S?&@ there is nothing wrong with having sex with my coworker if we are in love), and the real truth.....the WS is having an affair, didn't put boundaries in place to protect the marriage/themselves and all that that means...consequences and all.

 

The truth is subjective to a WS before/during/after an affair. Not until, a wayward spouse can accept their actions and what it really means/says about them can a wayward tell the difference between the "truth" they told themselves (at the time of the affair), and the real truth of the affair during the time of the affair.

[Selfish]

I know people who are really and truly *looking for an affair* and/or are *affair ready* at any given moment. Perhaps with the very obvious difference in behaviour I use different words to describe my situation. And the fact remains I believe my affair started when you may be thinking I was *looking for an affair. The friendship, the flirting, ect. That was cheating in my opinion. A "friendship" based on mutual sexual attraction is cheating. I may have been lying to myself to make it okay at the time but it was still an affair from the get go.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Selfish and Lovin...you are both saying the same thing.

 

Someone asked...what does a WS think AT THE TIME OF THE AFFAIR.

 

I think for most waywards, what Selfish said was dead on.

 

Selfish told herself lies. Selfish can see they were lies. Selfish sees the boundaries she/OM crossed. Selfish is not excusing her actions due to the lies, just merely saying how she was able to have the affair.

[Selfish]

Selfish and Lovin...you are both saying the same thing.

 

Someone asked...what does a WS think AT THE TIME OF THE AFFAIR.

 

I think for most waywards, what Selfish said was dead on.

 

Selfish told herself lies. Selfish can see they were lies. Selfish sees the boundaries she/OM crossed. Selfish is not excusing her actions due to the lies, just merely saying how she was able to have the affair.

 

I actually told myself more lies than I told my spouse. One of my lies to myself was that I wasn't lying to my partner because I never told an outright lie. Or even a little white lie. Way to help yourself sleep at night. I may not have been "telling lies" but I was living a lie. The lie of being a faithful spouse. Which is what everyone believes they have.

Edited November 28, 2014 by Selfish

[DbleBetrayal]

people who lack a conscience, get a thrill out of cheating, and then lie about it? Interesting. Why then are all the posts by most cheaters here saying something very different? Are they just lying to the rest of us too, the same way as they did to their spouses?

 

 

Yes. Cheaters get a thrill or least something good out of cheating. Or else they wouldn't have done it all, would they? Yes, they lack a conscience in the moment. And probably lack one all together eventually when they keep getting away with it. And yes they than lie about it. All those components make up the very definition of cheating. It's so simple.

 

 

How can the betrayed spouse NOT be in the cheater's mind when the cheater is cheating?

 

They're just not in the cheater's mind whilst cheating- maybe fleetingly, somewhere faded in the background for 1 second beforehand- if that. A betrayed spouse would be the last thing on their mind while they are screwing about. That would just ruin all their fun.

Edited November 28, 2014 by DbleBetrayal

[autumnnight]

So if I can summarize based on this thread and a mountain of others, it boils down to this:

 

People who have cheated are bad people and probably always were; people who haven't cheated are good people and always will be. And if you are a woman who cheated you are extra bad.

 

Just want to make sure i am following.

[OverIt75]

Poptart - I'm not sure if this will satisfy your quest for knowledge here, but I thought about this.

 

If you want to boil it down to the absolute most basic 'what was in my mind' at the point of no return - it must have been, "I want to." I doubt I was doing a whole lot of thinking.

 

HOWEVER, it's really not that simple. As someone else said, having sex is the LAST of many lines that have been crossed. You cross little ones over time, and you minimize in your mind each line. And they get bigger and bigger until...

 

Just because I can admit that "I wanted to" doesn't mean that I think that was the only factor. It was barely a blip. A whole host of other things had already transpired and come together to make it possible. Emotions, circumstances and excuses had layered one on top of the other. I think if even just one of those had NOT existed, I probably wouldn't have done it.

 

Makes me think of a car accident. It's not usually just one thing that causes it. It was raining, I hydroplaned, the person in front of me slammed on their brakes, and then I looked down when a text buzzed. If any one of those things had NOT occurred, the accident may never have happened.

[OverIt75]

Is this addressed to me?

 

So have you thought about your husband's feelings?

 

If he had the affair, what would you do? Would you divorce him? No, I don't think I would divorce him. But, it's awfully hard to say, isn't it? I'm not exactly objective. I don't think anyone knows what they would really do until faced with it. The main factors in deciding between R and D, to me, would have to be how it's handled after discovery. Is the affair over? Are you committed to the M? Do you wish you had never gotten yourself into it in the first place? I would also consider the type of affair, if there was more than one, how long it had gone on. I don't know what my breaking point would be exactly.

 

You spent all that energy on the affair.

 

Now your H has the problem with the flooding of emotions. He is hurt, angry, betrayed.

 

When I first found out, I felt worthless, a backup plan, I wanted to die.

 

I read one man's feelings. He felt like his heart had been ripped out of his chest and thrown into the fire.

 

She could not ever have loved me to lie to me, betray me, cheat on me. A BS will never be the same. You can't trust what they say, you will never know what they did. But they loved someone else and could never have loved you. (not to treat your spouse that way) Too bad she did not file for divorce, and leave before all the cheating and the lying.

 

The WW spent all that money and energy on someone else. The vows are worthless.

 

Been married for 40 years now. I guess she put out the fire and stopped the burning. Just can't get it back in the chest and working again.

 

What would you do if your H had the A? If he was in my shoes and vice versa...I have no doubt how sickened, heartbroken, confused, and disgusted I would be. I also know that I would desire to make things right if HE also desired it and proved it to me with actions. I think I would want to make every effort to reconcile, assuming HE was making the effort. My children deserve a happy family, and we had that, pre-A. We are good together. If he decided he didn't want to throw it away, I would agree. I would also want to know in my heart of hearts that I had done everything in my power to save the M, especially if we ended up divorcing down the road. I want to avoid as many should/would/coulds in my life as possible. I already have enough of them.

 

This will help me to see what to do.

[harrybrown]

hope you give your H a written timeline of your A.

 

Also make sure that your AP is outed to his spouse so that your H does not think that you are protecting him over your H.

 

Wish you and your H better times.

[Zenstudent]

If he was in my shoes and vice versa...I have no doubt how sickened, heartbroken, confused, and disgusted I would be. I also know that I would desire to make things right if HE also desired it and proved it to me with actions. I think I would want to make every effort to reconcile, assuming HE was making the effort. My children deserve a happy family, and we had that, pre-A. We are good together. If he decided he didn't want to throw it away, I would agree. I would also want to know in my heart of hearts that I had done everything in my power to save the M, especially if we ended up divorcing down the road. I want to avoid as many should/would/coulds in my life as possible. I already have enough of them.

This is all good, and I believe you have learnt a lot, and I also believe you have some regrets.

 

One of the problems that most BS face post d-day, is that all your assumptions here (he desire it, he was making an effort etc.), might all be smoke and mirrors, one big act. Remember; all trust is out the window, and nothing you say will be taken at face value. It may all be part of the charade to gain time, get the ducks in a row, untill the kids grow up or whatever.

 

You really can't imagine this untill you've experienced it. Nothing counts for anything anymore - because it's probably not genuine. So, what would you do if your assumptions can't be verified?

[OverIt75]

This is all good, and I believe you have learnt a lot, and I also believe you have some regrets.

 

One of the problems that most BS face post d-day, is that all your assumptions here (he desire it, he was making an effort etc.), might all be smoke and mirrors, one big act. Remember; all trust is out the window, and nothing you say will be taken at face value. It may all be part of the charade to gain time, get the ducks in a row, untill the kids grow up or whatever.

 

You really can't imagine this untill you've experienced it. Nothing counts for anything anymore - because it's probably not genuine. So, what would you do if your assumptions can't be verified?

 

I don't know. I, as well as my BH, are taking it day by day. The same would apply if the shoe was on the other foot. Sometimes, you are just surviving.

[revelations]

OverIt75 their was a couple of things in your first post that really caught my eye. As a BH I feel the need to share with you how a BH will feel and also questions that I have or other BH's may have.

 

I felt special in the A - now my H knows he has shared me and logically knows that I am no longer special. I am not a catch. What H and I have has been smeared and defiled by another relationship.

 

 

I wanted it 'both ways' during the A - my H for the family, companionship, and security; my AP for the passion, love, and excitement. Now, I may end up with neither.

 

Now you felt special in that A and you understand that your husband knows he has shared you and may no longer feel that you are not special to him. Your BH may be wondering how long it will be until you find someone else that makes you feel special. After all you have already proven to your BH that marrying you and such does not make you feel special. Also how special does your BH feel you are to him? I mean after all as a BH you feel real special knowing that your WW has been out banging some other guy. Some BH's will look at you like you are tainted and with good reason. After all you have been being filled with another man's DNA and nothing will emasculate a man like getting sloppy seconds from his wife that is suppose to be faithful to him. I will say that you are correct in that you are probably no longer special or a catch to your BH. After all when he married you it was done because he wanted you. Now you are nothing more than a choice he chooses to stay with. This means that one day your BH may wake up and think to himself "Hmm, I know longer choose to be with her or allow her to treat me this way".

 

On to having it "both ways". This is probably a major fear of any BH and is always on his mind. I know myself that my ex WW did sexual acts for the OM that she refused to do with me even after being caught. Bottom line was I was good enough for the security, family and companionship, however I was not good enough for the sex. What you described in your couple of sentences on wanting it "both ways" has nothing to do with love and everything to do with using a person. Your BH has probably worked very hard to give you the security and etc. that you enjoyed only to be repaid by being your plan B. I can honestly say that it is because of actions and thinking like this I see from women played a major part of me going my own way and rejecting women for marriage, living with or kids.

 

So now I have some questions. For one, would you be as forgiving if you found out your BH was banging some other woman behind your back such as your sister or best friend? Since you cheated on your husband would you tell him it is okay if he bangs another woman for awhile and why or why not? If you gave him the okay to bang another woman would you help him find another willing woman? How would you feel if the situation was reversed and your BH was cheating on you and told you he wanted you for companionship, family and security and that your not good enough to fulfill his sexual needs and the other woman is? How would you feel if you found out that your BH just settled for you and is always looking for something better?

 

My questions may seem a bit harsh, however these are just a few of the questions BH's like myself will have. I'll post the link here again, however I wrote out a lot of what I was going through and felt after I learned what my WW did to me. My WW did not even really care that I was hurt by her actions, instead she treated me like I was a jealous dog. Okay here is the link....

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/475966-ww-s-some-damage-you-have-caused-rant

Maybe after reading that you will have a better understanding of what men go through after being cheated on. I will tell you that one of the major reasons I left my WW was because I knew I would always feel like I was in second place behind her lovers. No matter, what she would never be able to convince me that I was anything except number 2 in her eyes. WW's often make a lot of mistakes when trying to save their marriage. One thing I often tell WW's to do is to try and remove most if not all of the risks for the BH to stay with you. This includes getting a post nuptial agreement written up stating that your not going to take alimony or any of the BH's retirment, house, car or anything else that is major should he decide to divorce you later on. In simple words give your BH a "get out of marriage free" card. This shows that you are not only trying to take responsibility for your actions, it also shows that it is your BH you want and not his stuff or wealth he has acquired. Most will always say never give the BH a green light to bang another woman on the side. My view on this is that until you renew your wedding vows your BH is not obligated to remain faithful to you. The reason is you have broke the old contract or vows you took when you first got married, so why should he still be held to a contract that you broke and obviously feel so little about. A major thing I would say is to make daily amends (yes I suggest you look up the word "amends" to fully understand what it means) to your BH and major amends to him. Every man is different, your BH may be one that banging another woman on the side would be important to him. Others may feel that it is sexual acts that he may have always wanted to try and you were unwilling to. Some BH's may feel that eating the turd sandwich that you are force feeding them a little more tolerable if you buy them that new Harley or sports car they always wanted. Sending them on a dream vacation that your BH has always wanted (and you stay behind) is another good major amends. Anything you two do to repair the marriage as far as marriage counseling or any other type of counseling including sex therapy should be 100% your responsibility meaning you should pay 100% of the bill.

 

The whole idea is not just to try and convince your BH that from now on you will never bang another guy. You have to show your BH that you are worth not just the risk, but worth a second chance. Until you can see that your BH is not thinking of your affair on a daily or even weekly bases, you should put his needs and wants first. You may have to do this for 5 years or more. How often do you catch your BH crying and comfort him and did you know you may be seeing this for years? You will have to do the heavy lifting in a lot of areas from finances to sex for many years to come. Even if you do everything right you still have a high risk of your BH leaving you some day. I do wish your BH the best and I hope that one of these days he will understand that a good life is possible without a wife in his life.

[beach]

I don't know. I, as well as my BH, are taking it day by day. The same would apply if the shoe was on the other foot. Sometimes, you are just surviving.

 

But that's just it - "JUST surviving" won't begin to repair the damage you have caused to your spouse.

 

 

It's always interesting that people say "if the shoe was one the other foot" - because more times than not when someone says this - their spouse is that kind of person who would never cheat.

 

 

What are you actively DOING TODAY that repairs the damage you caused? If you aren't doing several things every day that show you intend to earn trust back then you aren't doing "enough"

 

Just surviving... That's still hurtful to the one who was cheated on. It's like you don't intend to make enough effort to change things.

 

And if you aren't changing things - then you may as well just cheat again.

[OverIt75]

But that's just it - "JUST surviving" won't begin to repair the damage you have caused to your spouse.

 

 

It's always interesting that people say "if the shoe was one the other foot" - because more times than not when someone says this - their spouse is that kind of person who would never cheat.

 

 

What are you actively DOING TODAY that repairs the damage you caused? If you aren't doing several things every day that show you intend to earn trust back then you aren't doing "enough"

 

Just surviving... That's still hurtful to the one who was cheated on. It's like you don't intend to make enough effort to change things.

 

And if you aren't changing things - then you may as well just cheat again.

 

You have entirely misinterpreted my comment.

 

I am exhausted. We've had a very emotional 24 hours, but a good 24 hours. I meant that together, we are just walking this out. Sometimes it feels good, sometimes it feels horrible, and sometimes we're just here - surviving.

[Janesays]

But that's just it - "JUST surviving" won't begin to repair the damage you have caused to your spouse.

 

 

It's always interesting that people say "if the shoe was one the other foot" - because more times than not when someone says this - their spouse is that kind of person who would never cheat.

 

 

What are you actively DOING TODAY that repairs the damage you caused? If you aren't doing several things every day that show you intend to earn trust back then you aren't doing "enough"

 

Just surviving... That's still hurtful to the one who was cheated on. It's like you don't intend to make enough effort to change things.

 

And if you aren't changing things - then you may as well just cheat again.

 

What an awesome post. You articulate what I've been telling my cheating spouse much better than I have. I simply kept saying, "if you aren't helping me, you're hurting me" about a billion times before I got sick of him sitting on his hands doing nothing while I bled to death and threw him out.

 

Too many cheating spouses think they're going to just batten down the hatches and passively weather the storm. Doesn't work that way. You made a mess. Clean it up. Either that or get out of the way...for good.

[OverIt75]

May I make a suggestion? If you actually want us to answer you, you may want to try to be a little more succinct. I can hardly bring myself to read your entire post.

 

We have had a very rough 24 hours, emotional, but progress. So I'm not sure how much of this I can even entertain at the moment.

 

OverIt75 their was a couple of things in your first post that really caught my eye. As a BH I feel the need to share with you how a BH will feel and also questions that I have or other BH's may have.

 

 

 

Now you felt special in that A and you understand that your husband knows he has shared you and may no longer feel that you are not special to him. Your BH may be wondering how long it will be until you find someone else that makes you feel special. After all you have already proven to your BH that marrying you and such does not make you feel special. Also how special does your BH feel you are to him? I mean after all as a BH you feel real special knowing that your WW has been out banging some other guy. Some BH's will look at you like you are tainted and with good reason. After all you have been being filled with another man's DNA and nothing will emasculate a man like getting sloppy seconds from his wife that is suppose to be faithful to him. I will say that you are correct in that you are probably no longer special or a catch to your BH. After all when he married you it was done because he wanted you. Now you are nothing more than a choice he chooses to stay with. This means that one day your BH may wake up and think to himself "Hmm, I know longer choose to be with her or allow her to treat me this way".

 

On to having it "both ways". This is probably a major fear of any BH and is always on his mind. I know myself that my ex WW did sexual acts for the OM that she refused to do with me even after being caught. Bottom line was I was good enough for the security, family and companionship, however I was not good enough for the sex. What you described in your couple of sentences on wanting it "both ways" has nothing to do with love and everything to do with using a person. Your BH has probably worked very hard to give you the security and etc. that you enjoyed only to be repaid by being your plan B. I can honestly say that it is because of actions and thinking like this I see from women played a major part of me going my own way and rejecting women for marriage, living with or kids.

 

So now I have some questions. For one, would you be as forgiving if you found out your BH was banging some other woman behind your back such as your sister or best friend? I didn't 'bang' his brother or best friend, so not a great comparison. I also think I've answered this question more than once in my previous posts. I would hope and think I could forgive, but I don't think anyone knows what their reaction would be unless faced with the situation.Since you cheated on your husband would you tell him it is okay if he bangs another woman for awhile and why or why not? Stupid question. I don't think two wrongs make a right. But he's an adult and can make his own choices. I doubt if he chose to be with someone else, he would suddenly think my A was okay, thus I don't know why I would say it's 'okay' for him to do it. If you gave him the okay to bang another woman would you help him find another willing woman? Really stupid question. Did he help me find OM? Would have I expected him to. Baffled. How would you feel if the situation was reversed and your BH was cheating on you and told you he wanted you for companionship, family and security and that your not good enough to fulfill his sexual needs and the other woman is? I would feel pretty terrible. Fortunately, I don't believe this is true, nor did I announce this to him. How would you feel if you found out that your BH just settled for you and is always looking for something better?I would set him free, just as he should if that's what I did to him.

 

My questions may seem a bit harsh, however these are just a few of the questions BH's like myself will have. I'll post the link here again, however I wrote out a lot of what I was going through and felt after I learned what my WW did to me. My WW did not even really care that I was hurt by her actions, instead she treated me like I was a jealous dog. Okay here is the link....

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/475966-ww-s-some-damage-you-have-caused-rant

Maybe after reading that you will have a better understanding of what men go through after being cheated on. I will tell you that one of the major reasons I left my WW was because I knew I would always feel like I was in second place behind her lovers. No matter, what she would never be able to convince me that I was anything except number 2 in her eyes. WW's often make a lot of mistakes when trying to save their marriage. One thing I often tell WW's to do is to try and remove most if not all of the risks for the BH to stay with you. This includes getting a post nuptial agreement written up stating that your not going to take alimony or any of the BH's retirment, house, car or anything else that is major should he decide to divorce you later on. In simple words give your BH a "get out of marriage free" card. This shows that you are not only trying to take responsibility for your actions, it also shows that it is your BH you want and not his stuff or wealth he has acquired. You make a lot of assumptions. Some of us wives have actually been the breadwinner. But I digress. I am all for making him feel safe, however. Most will always say never give the BH a green light to bang another woman on the side. My view on this is that until you renew your wedding vows your BH is not obligated to remain faithful to you. The reason is you have broke the old contract or vows you took when you first got married, so why should he still be held to a contract that you broke and obviously feel so little about. A major thing I would say is to make daily amends (yes I suggest you look up the word "amends" to fully understand what it means) to your BH and major amends to him. Every man is different, your BH may be one that banging another woman on the side would be important to him. Others may feel that it is sexual acts that he may have always wanted to try and you were unwilling to. Some BH's may feel that eating the turd sandwich that you are force feeding them a little more tolerable if you buy them that new Harley or sports car they always wanted. Sending them on a dream vacation that your BH has always wanted (and you stay behind) is another good major amends. Anything you two do to repair the marriage as far as marriage counseling or any other type of counseling including sex therapy should be 100% your responsibility meaning you should pay 100% of the bill.You are kind of sick.

 

The whole idea is not just to try and convince your BH that from now on you will never bang another guy. You have to show your BH that you are worth not just the risk, but worth a second chance. Until you can see that your BH is not thinking of your affair on a daily or even weekly bases, you should put his needs and wants first. You may have to do this for 5 years or more. How often do you catch your BH crying and comfort him and did you know you may be seeing this for years? You will have to do the heavy lifting in a lot of areas from finances to sex for many years to come. Even if you do everything right you still have a high risk of your BH leaving you some day. I do wish your BH the best and I hope that one of these days he will understand that a good life is possible without a wife in his life.

 

I can see that your opinion is totally objective...not at all swayed by your own experience. Peace...

[beach]

Ok, you're making progress... What does that look like?

 

What peace of mind have you handed your betrayed spouse in the past 24-48 hours? Be specific please.

[jbrent890]

May I make a suggestion? If you actually want us to answer you, you may want to try to be a little more succinct. I can hardly bring myself to read your entire post.

 

We have had a very rough 24 hours, emotional, but progress. So I'm not sure how much of this I can even entertain at the moment.

 

 

 

I can see that your opinion is totally objective...not at all swayed by your own experience. Peace...

 

I know it's rough but hang in there. Have you started counseling yet?

[revelations]

May I make a suggestion? If you actually want us to answer you, you may want to try to be a little more succinct. I can hardly bring myself to read your entire post.

 

We have had a very rough 24 hours, emotional, but progress. So I'm not sure how much of this I can even entertain at the moment.

 

 

 

I can see that your opinion is totally objective...not at all swayed by your own experience. Peace...

 

 

Hmm, I am kind of sick for suggesting that you clean up your own mess?? I would normally suggest that you reread everything so that you don't take things out of context. However you are probably not the kind of person that can do that. You are still all about "ME" and wanting your ego stroked. Truthfully I can see that you are a lost cause. I feel bad for your BH and any other BH that is tied down to someone like yourself. Yes this is why I almost never recommend staying with a WW, they are just not worth the trouble.

[jbrent890]

Wow these last couple of days has really been an us vs. them thing in terms of WSs and BSs. Beating each other up gets us nowhere and that goes for everyone. We are all here to learn and grow as human beings. Let me be the first to apologize to any WS who felt insulted by my comments in other threads. The intention was to express a point of view, not put you down. I know it doesn't feel like it especially seeing as if a lot of us are going through D-Days, but this is the time of the year to try to be kind to one another. To the BSs, I know it's hard, but the WSs on here are not your wives and husbands. I feel that a lot of us are taking out are personal frustrations out on them. Let's be honest, I'm sure their spouses are doing a better job of that than we are. To the WSs, please don't take offense to everything that is said on here. Not everyone on here is out to get you. With that being said, Overit, I'm still rooting for you. Sadly your situation is not going to be an easy one. In fact, I think you are going to have a little bit of a harder time than other WSs. As you said, your marriage was pretty solid before hand. For me personally, if I did everything I was supposed to do as a husband and still had my wife cheat on me, I would have an exceedingly hard time getting over it. Your situation is only going to get worse before it gets better, but it will get better. You have grown into a very strong woman over this period and I think you will get through this. Again, I'm praying for you and everyone else on here.

[Owl6118]

OverIt75, I want to offer you something to turn over in your thoughts. It might help you with both sides of the work you have in front of you--seeing your remaining feelings for you OM for what they are, and reconnecting with your husband.

 

The idea I want to offer you is that one defining characteristic of affairs is that they are profound failures or short-circuitings of empathy.

 

When we are functioning as well-integrated people with a well-functioning emotional range, our sense of empathy is sharpest for those closest to us. A very clear statement of this is the old cliche, "cut him or her, I bleed." When you first bonded with your husband and I imagine for many years thereafter, this would have been and I am sure was true for you too. The thought of an affair would have been repulsive, becuase the very thought of it would have caused you to feel, like an advance echo, his pain, if you were to betray him. Imaagining his pain would have caused you pain. Cut him, you bleed.

 

In an affair the first thing that happens, long before other boundaries are crossed, is that natural flux of empathy for your life partner gets attenuated. Worse, it actually gets transferred. Your AP becomes the one to whom your empathy attaches, it's his feelings that cause a responding flux of feeling in you. And you cease to feel that flux of feeling for your life partner. You still think of him being cut--that after all is why affairs are kept hidden--but you don't FEEL it. You think of him being cut (if he finds out that is, which you put a lot of effirt into ensuring won't happen) but you don't bleed at the very thought. This is the first and greatest betrayal, of your true best self and of your partner. Its the self-betrayal from which the others flow.

 

So I just encourage you to meditate on empathy. Think about it, live with your thoughts for a while. Imagine it as a flow of life giving and comappsionate energy. You may be able to visualize how it once flowed freely toward your husband, how it became dammed, how it became diverted to your boss/work partner/friend.

 

When you struggle with the good feelings memories of your AP evoke, remember at the end that each good feeling you felt was purchased and paid for with a price--a redirection of empathy from your husband, a cultivation of emotional indifference to the reality of hus prospective pain. And each good feeling AP had for you, no matter how sincere, came with that same taint and corrupt burden--it was purchased, feeling for feeling, by choaking off empathy for his partner. All good things you showed each other were purchased at a terrible cost of studied indifference to the reality of your partners' feelings and emotional health.

 

And as you struggle to reconnect with your husband--which honestly will not be easy, as curled in pain and lashing out with anguish he will not and cannot be at his most attractive--remember how strong his empathy is for you. He is still there! After this blow! When you are cut he still bleeds. Even now. This is an amazing thing when you think about it.

 

And I hope thinking about it will be a thin wedge which cracks open your empathy for him ever more widely. You see him cut now. As much as you can, feel his bleed again as your own.

[OverIt75]

I know it's rough but hang in there. Have you started counseling yet?

 

Yes - been in IC for months, now in MC together with husband. Thanks for the kind words.

[Selfish]

Hmm, I am kind of sick for suggesting that you clean up your own mess?? I would normally suggest that you reread everything so that you don't take things out of context. However you are probably not the kind of person that can do that. You are still all about "ME" and wanting your ego stroked. Truthfully I can see that you are a lost cause. I feel bad for your BH and any other BH that is tied down to someone like yourself. Yes this is why I almost never recommend staying with a WW, they are just not worth the trouble.

 

You are kind of sick because you are not offering things that actually heal a relationship like freebie sex which is not going to help a marriage out or erase what was done. Or buying a harley. It aslo assumes that all men are materlistic and only think with their penis. And there are men who are far more evolved and emotionaly sound than this. You were cheated on but you are not allen and you cannot speak for all men. I cheated but I cannot speak for all women who have because we are all different even within our respective genders. You will always find like minded people who lap up your attacks thinnly veiled as "advice".

 

If a betrayed spouse required banging whoever they wanted, and fancy toys and basically to be selfish and spoiled in order to save a marriage I would encourage the WS in that situation to reconsider reconciliation and feeding a self entitled monster. If the betrayed makes a lot larger amount of money signing over rights may sound like a good idea but we all know how well that actually looks in the court of law. And if their our children involved impovershing a parent is never healthy. The other things would make most healthy men who are worth fighting for cringe and say that isn't what will help me trust and love you again. Most healthy and worthwhile men would see the offer of a freebie as a desperate attempt of the WS to rugsweep or pull their BS down to their level of shame. A marriage isn't over until divorced and most honest and healthy BS do not want to throw away their morals and self respect because their partner did. Offering a freebie, even to someone who is considering a RA, is like a slap in the face. And most healthy and worthwhile men would see a car for what it is. A pathetic attempt to buy forgiveness. A shortcut.

 

Being open, honest, and humble. Being there even for a tongue lashing. Not shifting the focus or rugsweeping. Not trying to rush the Bs through the process, seeking counseling both IC and MC if possible. All these things are positive and work towards reconciliation. Not buying toys, losing your right to have an opinion or opening up an unhealthy marriage.

[OverIt75]

Owl - just...wow. Thank you. This is so very right.

 

I was about to check out of this thread...I appreciated many LS'ers contributions, but some felt more like they were getting a thrill out of saying painful and sometimes just mean things. I can appreciate constructive criticism, but I don't understand just coming on an internet forum to spew ugliness.

 

But this...I appreciate the time it took to write it and the thought behind it. It is exactly true. I recall even thinking and perhaps writing down that my loyalties had gotten switched. But empathy is a better word. I took it from my H and gave it to my AP.

 

With each passing day of NC and as I continue to put effort into R with my BH, I feel my empathy being redirected to the right place.

 

Thank you again. My best to you.

 

OverIt75, I want to offer you something to turn over in your thoughts. It might help you with both sides of the work you have in front of you--seeing your remaining feelings for you OM for what they are, and reconnecting with your husband.

 

The idea I want to offer you is that one defining characteristic of affairs is that they are profound failures or short-circuitings of empathy.

 

When we are functioning as well-integrated people with a well-functioning emotional range, our sense of empathy is sharpest for those closest to us. A very clear statement of this is the old cliche, "cut him or her, I bleed." When you first bonded with your husband and I imagine for many years thereafter, this would have been and I am sure was true for you too. The thought of an affair would have been repulsive, becuase the very thought of it would have caused you to feel, like an advance echo, his pain, if you were to betray him. Imaagining his pain would have caused you pain. Cut him, you bleed.

 

In an affair the first thing that happens, long before other boundaries are crossed, is that natural flux of empathy for your life partner gets attenuated. Worse, it actually gets transferred. Your AP becomes the one to whom your empathy attaches, it's his feelings that cause a responding flux of feeling in you. And you cease to feel that flux of feeling for your life partner. You still think of him being cut--that after all is why affairs are kept hidden--but you don't FEEL it. You think of him being cut (if he finds out that is, which you put a lot of effirt into ensuring won't happen) but you don't bleed at the very thought. This is the first and greatest betrayal, of your true best self and of your partner. Its the self-betrayal from which the others flow.

 

So I just encourage you to meditate on empathy. Think about it, live with your thoughts for a while. Imagine it as a flow of life giving and comappsionate energy. You may be able to visualize how it once flowed freely toward your husband, how it became dammed, how it became diverted to your boss/work partner/friend.

 

When you struggle with the good feelings memories of your AP evoke, remember at the end that each good feeling you felt was purchased and paid for with a price--a redirection of empathy from your husband, a cultivation of emotional indifference to the reality of hus prospective pain. And each good feeling AP had for you, no matter how sincere, came with that same taint and corrupt burden--it was purchased, feeling for feeling, by choaking off empathy for his partner. All good things you showed each other were purchased at a terrible cost of studied indifference to the reality of your partners' feelings and emotional health.

 

And as you struggle to reconnect with your husband--which honestly will not be easy, as curled in pain and lashing out with anguish he will not and cannot be at his most attractive--remember how strong his empathy is for you. He is still there! After this blow! When you are cut he still bleeds. Even now. This is an amazing thing when you think about it.

 

And I hope thinking about it will be a thin wedge which cracks open your empathy for him ever more widely. You see him cut now. As much as you can, feel his bleed again as your own.

[Selfish]

Wow these last couple of days has really been an us vs. them thing in terms of WSs and BSs. Beating each other up gets us nowhere and that goes for everyone. We are all here to learn and grow as human beings. Let me be the first to apologize to any WS who felt insulted by my comments in other threads. The intention was to express a point of view, not put you down. I know it doesn't feel like it especially seeing as if a lot of us are going through D-Days, but this is the time of the year to try to be kind to one another. To the BSs, I know it's hard, but the WSs on here are not your wives and husbands. I feel that a lot of us are taking out are personal frustrations out on them. Let's be honest, I'm sure their spouses are doing a better job of that than we are. To the WSs, please don't take offense to everything that is said on here. Not everyone on here is out to get you. With that being said, Overit, I'm still rooting for you. Sadly your situation is not going to be an easy one. In fact, I think you are going to have a little bit of a harder time than other WSs. As you said, your marriage was pretty solid before hand. For me personally, if I did everything I was supposed to do as a husband and still had my wife cheat on me, I would have an exceedingly hard time getting over it. Your situation is only going to get worse before it gets better, but it will get better. You have grown into a very strong woman over this period and I think you will get through this. Again, I'm praying for you and everyone else on here.

 

I thank you for your kind words. I am glad to know you do not paint all waywards with a broad brush like I thought. And just so you know I personally think a marriage that is healthy before has a better chance at recovery in the long run because the only issue to deal with is the affair.