Oprah or Bible: Which has more influence on women?

[Glinda.Good]

Whose sin am I judging? I've only ever discussed doctrine. Osteen? Oprah? Nope. I've exclusively made comments about their doctrine and NOTHING else. (Except maybe Osteen's shiny teeth, lol.) So this being the case I'm not guilty of hypocrisy--at least not on these forums.

 

Oprah does not have "doctrine" and you are accusing her of evil here.

 

You have a LOT to say about women on these fora that is quite offensive to anybody who likes us.

 

You also have a lot to say about those YOU consider to be less godly than you are.

 

Whatever. I think you are just here to prove you are "right," and you are nowhere near looking at yourself, in general or in relation to your faith.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but that is certainly the impression you've given me.

[dreamingoftigers]

The Catholic church was terrifying to me and was the catalyst of becoming atheist. The secondary and main reason was my interest in history.

 

When did you convert to Mormonism? Was it for marriage or personal choice? I'm genuinely curious, you don't have to answer if you don't feel comfortable . A good friend of mine who was Christian asked me if Catholics read the entire bible because her preacher told her that they don't. I just find it fascinating considering most religions are based on the same fundamentals.

 

I've only been back in Calgary for about 7 years, didn't grow up here :/. Actually grew up in the NWT but prefer Alberta overall .

 

Oh neat. I've been to NWT twice. Once was last summer.

The other was erg 7-8 years ago. My husband was interested in learning to cut diamonds.

 

I converted to Mormonism December 2002. A year and a half later my testimony was confirmed (I became really really sure.)

It was a completely personal choice. Prior to that I was raised Catholic, got involved with New Age/Occult/Wicca as a teen (just like everyone else LOL). After high school I just boxed it all, chalked it up to immaturity and believed we were just evolved apes who wanted a God.

 

Yes I believe Evolutionary Theory and my church does not have an official stance on evolution. My brain would never allow me to ignore science. LOL

 

I had a spiritual experience that I could not rationalize, explain away or see as coincidence. So I started looking again. The only thing I asked The Universe for was Truth. Just take me toward truth.

 

I went into being a Pentacostal Christian because they claimed the same type of experiences. I read the whole bible cover to cover. It didn't line up with their practice and culture. I became disillusioned. I ended up studying with Jehovah's Witnesses for two years on the claim it was Bible-based. Found considerable inconsistency there. My in-laws are Jehovah's Witnesses actually. Erg. It's fine but I got the convert-pressure for years until I finally agreed to sit down for a session of Scripture Baseball. Genesis One was the downfall of that argument. I don't like going toe to toe with anyone on their religion. I figure many people build their life and family around religion and hope. When I would find a religion to be (IMHO) patently false, it would cause a sense of freefall and sadness. It would often alienate me from the members of thst religion. I don't like to strip anyone of their hope. But they backed off after that. I know my stuff. Best not to proceed.

 

I explored other Christian denominations and came up empty. So I started examining Eastern religions. I went to the Buddhist Temple. I read everything I could get my hands on. Seventh-Day Adventists, Mennonites, Judaism. I spend time at a Mosque.

I decided to pack it in.

I hadn't even examined Mormonism. In fact I ruled it out long before I even began. Just "not that one."

 

Then my ex-boyfriend's mother asked why not. And I told her "because you guys are nuts."

 

Of course my ex kind of reminded me that I was nuts too.

I checked it out. Not comfortable at first but I did eventually take the plunge. Erg

 

That's the short version.

 

I don't know if Oprah had anything to do with it. The Bible did though.

I find certain attitudes to be very similar between my adherence to Mormonism and my best friend's to Islam. I would say both faiths are very poorly represented in the media.

 

I bet Catholicidm produces many Athiests.

But that new pope seems to be doing lots of good.

Fingers crossed that he's not the Anti-Christ.

[pureinheart]

I do appreciate different views. I just struggle with why people seem to make it their goal in life to convert as many people as possible (not saying that you are).

 

My Nona and Grandpa are the most religious people I've known in my entire life. They're wonderful people, they pray into the night but never once in my entire life did they ever try to shame me or make me feel bad for what I believe in or say that one day I'll change my mind. They loved me unconditionally so why would a stranger on the internet think they can change what I believe?

 

This isn't directed specifically at you, just my general view of some of these threads.

 

Like I said, continue to do you. Especially if it's important to you. I respect people who stick to what they believe as long as they don't try to change others along the way.

 

IMO it's always better to have a "relationship" with a person. You know, it may depend on the setting? Like with the internet it's hard especially with a support forum and depending on the topics, well feathers fly and things can be taken wrong. Usually I'm the worst offender as far as the filter goes, not to mention throwing a thread so far off topic it's not funny.

 

I do have to take note where UF is concerned and do want to say he/she rarely ever posts in Spirituality to my knowledge, so as a suggestion, God could be speaking to you?

 

As a side note, my radar is always up concerning any media. UF and I take a lot of heat where Fox is concerned, so I guess I'm a bit sensitive due to that fact, although little do people know I am as critical if I hear something off as I would any publication.

 

Your Nona and Grandpa sound like cool people, you are fortunate to have them and I know you know that, just wanted to say it... stay cool love!

[leavesonautumn]

Oh neat. I've been to NWT twice. Once was last summer.

The other was erg 7-8 years ago. My husband was interested in learning to cut diamonds.

 

I converted to Mormonism December 2002. A year and a half later my testimony was confirmed (I became really really sure.)

It was a completely personal choice. Prior to that I was raised Catholic, got involved with New Age/Occult/Wicca as a teen (just like everyone else LOL). After high school I just boxed it all, chalked it up to immaturity and believed we were just evolved apes who wanted a God.

 

Yes I believe Evolutionary Theory and my church does not have an official stance on evolution. My brain would never allow me to ignore science. LOL

 

I had a spiritual experience that I could not rationalize, explain away or see as coincidence. So I started looking again. The only thing I asked The Universe for was Truth. Just take me toward truth.

 

I went into being a Pentacostal Christian because they claimed the same type of experiences. I read the whole bible cover to cover. It didn't line up with their practice and culture. I became disillusioned. I ended up studying with Jehovah's Witnesses for two years on the claim it was Bible-based. Found considerable inconsistency there. My in-laws are Jehovah's Witnesses actually. Erg. It's fine but I got the convert-pressure for years until I finally agreed to sit down for a session of Scripture Baseball. Genesis One was the downfall of that argument. I don't like going toe to toe with anyone on their religion. I figure many people build their life and family around religion and hope. When I would find a religion to be (IMHO) patently false, it would cause a sense of freefall and sadness. It would often alienate me from the members of thst religion. I don't like to strip anyone of their hope. But they backed off after that. I know my stuff. Best not to proceed.

 

I explored other Christian denominations and came up empty. So I started examining Eastern religions. I went to the Buddhist Temple. I read everything I could get my hands on. Seventh-Day Adventists, Mennonites, Judaism. I spend time at a Mosque.

I decided to pack it in.

I hadn't even examined Mormonism. In fact I ruled it out long before I even began. Just "not that one."

 

Then my ex-boyfriend's mother asked why not. And I told her "because you guys are nuts."

 

Of course my ex kind of reminded me that I was nuts too.

I checked it out. Not comfortable at first but I did eventually take the plunge. Erg

 

That's the short version.

 

I don't know if Oprah had anything to do with it. The Bible did though.

I find certain attitudes to be very similar between my adherence to Mormonism and my best friend's to Islam. I would say both faiths are very poorly represented in the media.

 

I bet Catholicidm produces many Athiests.

But that new pope seems to be doing lots of good.

Fingers crossed that he's not the Anti-Christ.

 

Awesome, thanks for sharing your story .

 

Growing up, the majority of the priests I met were unkind men who intimidated children and women. I did meet two who were kind and gentle people and were genuinely good. I chalk that up to the people they were and not the religion but what they preached made it hard to swallow. I remember trying to pray and just praying that I wouldn't go to hell because I fought with my brother. I even remember a nun coming to my school and explaining hell, brimstone and all! That was a great experience. My parents didn't ingrain this. It was the church and the people.

 

I've also been to a Christian church. The majority of people were hypocrites who judged every single person they've ever met. (Please note, I'm using the actual definition of hypocrite).

 

Once I turned 11, I just knew. I knew religion was not for me and hasn't been since then. I don't feel lost, I don't feel like I'm missing out on something. I realized it was forcing myself to believe in something I truly did not believe in that was damaging.

[leavesonautumn]

IMO it's always better to have a "relationship" with a person. You know, it may depend on the setting? Like with the internet it's hard especially with a support forum and depending on the topics, well feathers fly and things can be taken wrong. Usually I'm the worst offender as far as the filter goes, not to mention throwing a thread so far off topic it's not funny.

 

I do have to take note where UF is concerned and do want to say he/she rarely ever posts in Spirituality to my knowledge, so as a suggestion, God could be speaking to you?

 

As a side note, my radar is always up concerning any media. UF and I take a lot of heat where Fox is concerned, so I guess I'm a bit sensitive due to that fact, although little do people know I am as critical if I hear something off as I would any publication.

 

Your Nona and Grandpa sound like cool people, you are fortunate to have them and I know you know that, just wanted to say it... stay cool love!

 

Trust me, God has nothing to do with it Thanks for that though. Like I said, I came to this thread because it was under "New Posts".

 

My Grandpa passed away 2 years ago and during the funeral, the Priest told the children and grandchildren that we would be doing him a disservice and disappointing my Grandfather by not having the same faith. I struggled with that for months. I would be a hypocrite to force myself to believe something I did not and it took a while to come to this point. My Grandpa was my best friend and biggest supporter which means the world to me. It completely trumps our differences.

[pureinheart]

I served some time myself...as a corrections officer lol. I know the politics inside very well. Even the families of inmates know only so much. Usually the inmates tell their families something entirely different than what the reality is on the inside. I worked there when Obama was first elected and that place was running wild with a bunch of VERY racist democrats. Fear is being a white guy in prison on a non violent drug offense and having your life threatened almost daily by gangs who love beating up white guys.

 

My point is that racism goes both ways, and the self righteous democrats have quite a few racists among their ranks, which is why I believe they are so quick to call everyone else a racist. Not only this, but racism has been around forever...it's not going away. To think racism will die anytime soon is your typical unrealistic liberal thinking.

 

 

We have been engaging in acts of war the entire time Obama has been in office. Actions speak louder than words.

 

As for Oprah, that woman has some serious influence. She can make or break a career.

 

I have no doubt not all is said concerning what really goes on...some of it is just gross- like how they make their own alcohol...just as an example. What I don't get is the inmates...rebels by nature (it's how they got there) make so many rules amongst themselves. I was blown away. You'd think incarceration would be enough in and of itself:eek:

 

I agree, racism comes in all colors because if you think about it racism is a toxic human behavior/emotion and I've yet to see behavior/emotion set to a single skin color... in fact Latin America was first in the slave trade back in the 1400's.

[leavesonautumn]

Certainly. Are we not still fighting overseas? Sure, Bush started one particular conflict in the Middle East, but Clinton did his share of bombings, and Obama has been an aggressor as well. His plan to send a couple hundred military "advisors" back to Iraq is a joke. Did you know that Vietnam wasn't legally a war? We were also there as "advisors." Democrats want to say they are anti-war, all the while they send troops into the fray.

 

 

Affirmative action. Quotas based on race in the workplace. Any minority only college scholarship. Prison politics. The insistence that white people cannot be victims of racism is beyond ignorant.

 

We were speaking specifically about the war during Obama's terms. Which was started by Bush. End of story. Vietnam is not relevant. Obama came into Presidency having to essentially clean up Bush's **** but I'm not going to get into that. I'm not pro-Obama but I'm also not anti-Obama. The American government is a mess in general, regardless of who's in power.

 

Oh no, someone please think of the poor white people who are discriminated against on a daily basis. Wait, something doesn't sound right about that sentence. Black people in America have roughly double the amount of unemployment then white people. Roughly 75% of people in America are white. The majority of wealthy people are white. I'm not sure where you're getting your information from but it's biased and skewed. "Minority only college scholarship" more like "we need to fill a quota of non-whites to appear as if we are not racist" or you can look at it in a different light and think "wow these people have had it rough their entire life, they did extremely well in school so they deserve to go to college like anyone else even though they couldn't afford it". White people cannot be victims of racism because we hold the majority and because there is power of white people over minorities.

 

"It's crucial to maintain the distinction between the above three terms, because otherwise white people tend to redefine "Discrimination" as "Racism". Their main argument is that because both blacks and white can discriminate against each other, that "Reverse Racism" is possible. But the truth of the matter is that black people: 1) have far less opportunity to discriminate against whites than whites have to discriminate against blacks, overall; and 2) black people lack a system of institutionalized support that protect them when they discriminate against whites." from Why there's no such thing as "Reverse Racism"

[dreamingoftigers]

Awesome, thanks for sharing your story .

 

Growing up, the majority of the priests I met were unkind men who intimidated children and women. I did meet two who were kind and gentle people and were genuinely good. I chalk that up to the people they were and not the religion but what they preached made it hard to swallow. I remember trying to pray and just praying that I wouldn't go to hell because I fought with my brother. I even remember a nun coming to my school and explaining hell, brimstone and all! That was a great experience. My parents didn't ingrain this. It was the church and the people.

 

I've also been to a Christian church. The majority of people were hypocrites who judged every single person they've ever met. (Please note, I'm using the actual definition of hypocrite).

 

Once I turned 11, I just knew. I knew religion was not for me and hasn't been since then. I don't feel lost, I don't feel like I'm missing out on something. I realized it was forcing myself to believe in something I truly did not believe in that was damaging.

 

I only had one priest the whole way up. He was a very kind man. He did help my family a lot when my brother became brain-injured. But yes, the guilt shame and fear in that religion! Too much! I remember at 8 praying to God to please not send me to Hell and when I didn't get a "response" back, figuring that all was lost. Terrible fear that is preached.

 

I didn't feel "empty" or like I was "missing out on something" either.

And I fully agree with you, trying to force yourself to believe something that you don't believe is very very damaging. Almost a form of self-abuse really. It is like you are telling yourself that your thoughts and perceptions about your own life are "wrong" and that the testimonies of others are automatically "right." You know your life. You know what you believe.

 

In my faith, it is the Holy Spirit that does the converting if/when one is ready to accept it. What you are telling me has helped me to articulate just another reason why shaming/pushing/guilting/threatening with "Hellfire" are not appropriate ways to preach and actually run counter to the intent to share the love and redemption of Christ. (IMHO)

 

I seriously don't have an agenda here. I really appreciate your story. It reminds me a lot of what I went through and why I knew it wasn't the route to do things regarding others. I just figured I had been on too many sides of the dice to preach to anyone in a condescending or "mine is the only right" way.

 

I just got off the phone with my best friend. She and I are both Moms and we are both really bothered by the events in Palestine. Some things resonate universally, some things don't. I think if there is a loving God and afterlife for sure that answers will come a lot more easily at that time than by the jostling nightmare down here on this Earth.

 

Sorry to hear of your Grandfather. I think what that priest did was actually a form of abuse. Using your Grandfather whom had passed as a form of guilt to "fall in line." Offensive.

[dreamingoftigers]

"It's crucial to maintain the distinction between the above three terms, because otherwise white people tend to redefine "Discrimination" as "Racism". Their main argument is that because both blacks and white can discriminate against each other, that "Reverse Racism" is possible. But the truth of the matter is that black people: 1) have far less opportunity to discriminate against whites than whites have to discriminate against blacks, overall; and 2) black people lack a system of institutionalized support that protect them when they discriminate against whites." from Why there's no such thing as "Reverse Racism"

 

When I think of Reverse Racism, is sounds like an oxymoron.

 

It's just Racism.

 

But also when I think of Reverse Racism, it paints the mental image of a white person walking into a room, seeing that there's black people there and then backing up out of the room while making a beeping sound.

 

Also a fun impersonation to do at parties.

[leavesonautumn]

When I think of Reverse Racism, is sounds like an oxymoron.

 

It's just Racism.

 

But also when I think of Reverse Racism, it paints the mental image of a white person walking into a room, seeing that there's black people there and then backing up out of the room while making a beeping sound.

 

Also a fun impersonation to do at parties.

 

 

[pureinheart]

Trust me, God has nothing to do with it Thanks for that though. Like I said, I came to this thread because it was under "New Posts".

 

My Grandpa passed away 2 years ago and during the funeral, the Priest told the children and grandchildren that we would be doing him a disservice and disappointing my Grandfather by not having the same faith. I struggled with that for months. I would be a hypocrite to force myself to believe something I did not and it took a while to come to this point. My Grandpa was my best friend and biggest supporter which means the world to me. It completely trumps our differences.

 

I am so sorry:( and mean that sincerely... That was wrong to tell you all that. I feel like that was a play on your emotions. I am just hoping the Priest was ignorant to this fact and not trying to use manipulation. According to my faith, we all are given a free will and a right to choose individually. While yes here I would wish those close to me would choose what I believe, although that's not how it works. Like with my grandkids and my kids when they were small and impressionable, I told/tell them that this is how I believe, if you choose to go there, fine...if not that's fine too. I'm going to teach you (them) how I believe, but you are free to walk anytime because I need for you to have your own mind. It needs to be real and not something to appease me or anyone.

 

This is really working because all three grandkids DO have their own minds lol, I don't want them to fall prey to all of the deceptions out there.

[leavesonautumn]

I once found some homemade booze in a man's cell that had a big ham bone in it. Disgusting lol. Most of what goes on that they don't want their families to know about is how most of the inmates are in sexual relationships with one another. I couldn't help but laugh when I saw two hard-core gang members spooning in their cell together.

 

Most of the rules on the inside are a way of getting one over on other inmates.

 

 

 

This is the only point I've been trying to make, yet so many people are resistant to.

 

 

 

Ok, cool. We will talk about only one incident of war, one that was started by a republican, and not mention all the acts of war that are done by the democrats. Sure, sounds fair.

 

 

 

You're right, there is no such thing as reverse racism, there is just racism.

 

Judging by what I just saw you type out, you just don't care when white people are the victims of racism. Gotcha. That makes a lot of sense to me. "Let's combat racism! Unless it's against whitey. Screw that guy." That's pretty much what you are saying.

 

No, that's what YOU'RE saying. I'd appreciate if you didn't put words in my mouth and maybe read what I had to say instead of being concerned about your privilege. Who do you honestly believe has it worse in your country? White people or minorities?

 

I'm white. I've never faced discrimination for "being white" and frankly, it's not something I'd have to worry about. I live in a very diverse city and I see my friends face racism and discrimination on a daily basis.

 

We're not on the same page with the war comment either. You brought up Obama, not me. I just commented on the fact that he didn't start that specific war as you had originally said.

[leavesonautumn]

Racism isn't about who "has it worse." Affirmative action requires employers to hire a minority over an equally skilled white applicant. If that were the other way around, people would call it racist. Because it is against white people, it is law. Racial quotas in the workforce do much the same thing.

 

 

 

I'm white, and I've definitely seen some racism against me. I've also seen racism against black people. My point is that racism exists among all races, but you keep denying that racism can even exist against one race, which is untrue.

 

 

 

He is also looking to send more troops to Iraq. That has nothing to do with Bush. That is what I am saying. He has also been flying drones over the middle east that have killed countless people. That is also an act of war.

 

I'd suggest you actually research what Affirmative Action means. It doesn't mean "hire minorities over white people", it means you can't discriminate in regards to race, sex, or creed (yep, an entire sex that consists of half the population is considered a minority). Guarantee you white people are not having that hard of a time getting jobs in America if double the amount of black people are unemployed compared to white people. People take advantage of this action, yes, some companies have racial quotas and I never once said that was a good thing. There are pretty specific cases against it but I don't view it as all or nothing. Entirely Good or Entirely Bad. The company I work for follows Canada's version of Affirmative Action and our policy states that they are to hire regardless of sex, race, religion, creed. There's no racial quota or hidden agenda.

 

I view it in a different light which is where we are disagreeing. I see it in the way that minorities actually have a chance and white men are not dominating the work force or schools even when they do not meet qualifications over qualified individuals. I believe in equality. Pretty tough pill to swallow, I know.

 

I'm not discriminating against white people. I'm saying that we obviously hold a superiority complex which is proven by what you're saying. You're worried by your job being taken away. Am I to assume this has happened to you?

[Robert Z]

He is also looking to send more troops to Iraq. That has nothing to do with Bush. That is what I am saying. He has also been flying drones over the middle east that have killed countless people. That is also an act of war.

 

The big difference being that Bush invaded a country and blew up the ME all based on a false premise, if not an intentional lie.

 

 

Obama, on the other hand, kept his eye on the ball and got the man responsible for 911, in addition to pulverizing the terrorists groups who pose a threat, with drone attacks. I have always found it fascinating that Republicans could care less about this. Clearly they don't care about the attack on the US in 2001 or who actually did it.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Robert Z

[dreamingoftigers]

No, that's what YOU'RE saying. I'd appreciate if you didn't put words in my mouth and maybe read what I had to say instead of being concerned about your privilege. Who do you honestly believe has it worse in your country? White people or minorities?

 

I'm white. I've never faced discrimination for "being white" and frankly, it's not something I'd have to worry about. I live in a very diverse city and I see my friends face racism and discrimination on a daily basis.

 

We're not on the same page with the war comment either. You brought up Obama, not me. I just commented on the fact that he didn't start that specific war as you had originally said.

 

Yeah, we don't really face much here.

 

I do find that overall the city is pretty tolerant with each other etc.

 

I mean, it IS present but people aren't typically blatant about it.

 

ANd I'm not sure it really translates into much beyond "I'm not sure if I like 'those people.' But jobs and access to resources isn't an issue. And the vast majority of people won't even dare mention it. One of my last bosses was racist and I didn't stay there long. I think it shows dysfunction overall if someone is willing to spout off about that to someone that they barely know. I am not even going to get into not validating the hate etc. That's obvious stuff.

 

Forest Lawn is the closest thing we have to a ghetto.

My best friend grew up in Maryland after coming over from Somalia. I find she's more paranoid about that type of blatant racism (think post-9/11) than what is here. She wrote up on facebook about finding it weird to see so many "black cowboys" during Stampede.

 

But.....

John Ware (cowboy) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

But we've always been a fairly accepting province (despite the fact that we are a rural region, I find Saskatchewan to be much less tolerant of everything under the Sun except wheat. Lived there for two years. Ugh. Just UGH.)

 

We seem to focus more on getting our work done out here. As long as someone is willing to work and not be a total screwball we don't care if they are from Timbuktu or Three Hills.

I gotta sleep.

[pureinheart]

Concerning racism, there were many in-depth threads here during the Paula Deen incident and the Trayvon Martin death. From what I saw and was able to get out of all of it, it was more of who had/has a right to be racist and /or hate.

 

Concerning war(s), at one point I condemned the Vietnam war, although over the years I've learned that there are things we just don't know. Governments are complex, they have intel that we will never know and I mean never. They all seem to be multifaceted and what we see is the surface. I'm not sure if it's good or bad...for me there has never been enough information to make a call and will go as far to say that even following the money may not apply.

 

These comments aren't targeted at any post in this thread, it's just been on my mind lately.

Edited July 26, 2014 by pureinheart

[Robert Z]

I've seen companies in the South where discrimination is practiced openly. I've even seen mid-level managers at a large company openly mock black people by entertaining their white employees with vaudeville style black-face imitations.

 

 

I visited one company in New Jersey that was a real shock. Your job there is determined 100% by your national origin or race.

All of the management was Jewish

All of the mechanics were Polish

All of the housecleaning workers were central Americans.

All of the line workers were black

 

 

No exceptions. And this was a large company.

 

 

I was nearly run out of a factory in Alabama when I said I didn't watch Fox News. That was it! There had been no other political discussions. Just not watching Fox News made me a bad guy. I was shunned there the rest of the week.

[pureinheart]

The big difference being that Bush invaded a country and blew up the ME all based on a false premise, if not an intentional lie.

 

Obama, on the other hand, kept his eye on the ball and got the man responsible for 911, in addition to pulverizing the terrorists groups who pose a threat, with drone attacks. I have always found it fascinating that Republicans could care less about this. Clearly they don't care about the attack on the US in 2001 or who actually did it.

 

Love, we can see the result of O's foreign policies... O had knowledge of ISIS for quite sometime, so where are the drones? They pose a MAJOR threat.

 

The Democratic House and Senate seemed to be on board too. I really don't think we have the intel to make that call, and there has been significant evidence of the WMD.

[Robert Z]

Love, we can see the result of O's foreign policies... O had knowledge of ISIS for quite sometime, so where are the drones? They pose a MAJOR threat.

 

 

Well you can always ignore the facts and change the subject. ISIS is a new threat.

 

The Democratic House and Senate seemed to be on board too. I really don't think we have the intel to make that call, and there has been significant evidence of the WMD.

 

Again, changing the subject.

 

Obama didn't start a war based on a lie. Bush did. And Bush is the one who destabilized the ME.

[pureinheart]

I've seen companies in the South where discrimination is practiced openly. I've even seen mid-level managers at a large company openly mock black people by entertaining their white employees with vaudeville style black-face imitations.

 

 

I visited one company in New Jersey that was a real shock. Your job there is determined 100% by your national origin or race.

All of the management was Jewish

All of the mechanics were Polish

All of the housecleaning workers were central Americans.

All of the line workers were black

 

 

No exceptions. And this was a large company.

 

 

I was nearly run out of a factory in Alabama when I said I didn't watch Fox News. That was it! There had been no other political discussions. Just not watching Fox News made me a bad guy. I was shunned there the rest of the week.

 

Discrimination is practiced openly here too. It's everywhere on all sides of the fence.

 

We have a large chain of Mexican grocery stores, I've yet to see a black, white, or any other culture/race employed at any of them.

 

All of the Mexican restaurants here only employ Mexicans.

 

If you're not bi-lingual ...bye-bye no job.

 

The Asian restaurants here only employ Asians.

 

The NAACP denied membership and even access to their meeting to two black conservatives.

 

I could cite more instances, although like DOT, we are up way too late Robert:laugh:

[pureinheart]

Well you can always ignore the facts and change the subject. ISIS is a new threat.

 

 

 

Again, changing the subject.

 

Obama didn't start a war based on a lie. Bush did. And Bush is the one who destabilized the ME.

 

Nope, wrong on all counts love, although I'll have to catch you tomorrow ...you know darn good and well O knew about ISIS in the early stages which was approximately a couple of years ago.

 

The ME for the most part has always had issues, and we went over this in another thread (the Vietnam thread?) that it was actually the lines that were drawn in name by WC that caused things to get weird.

Edited July 26, 2014 by pureinheart

[leavesonautumn]

Discrimination is practiced openly here too. It's everywhere on all sides of the fence.

 

We have a large chain of Mexican grocery stores, I've yet to see a black, white, or any other culture/race employed at any of them.

 

All of the Mexican restaurants here only employ Mexicans.

 

If you're not bi-lingual ...bye-bye no job.

 

The Asian restaurants here only employ Asians.

 

The NAACP denied membership and even access to their meeting to two black conservatives.

 

I could cite more instances, although like DOT, we are up way too late Robert:laugh:

 

Discrimination means the denial of social participation or human rights based on prejudice. It's more complicated then white people not working at Mexican or Asian restaurants. I literally googled "not being hired due to whiteness" and the top result was "White Privilege" (hehe) and not an uproar of people wanting to work at restaurants where they simply would not be qualified.

 

Canada is actually a bi-lingual country, America isn't. Trust me, I grew up being told I'd never get a job if I didn't speak French and I've never once had an issue getting a job for only speaking English. If I moved to very, very specific locations in my country, would it be an issue? Yes. If I worked for the government? Maybe, maybe not, depends on who you know. Working at an Asian or Mexican restaurant/market would not benefit me or the employer as I wouldn't be able to communicate with the majority of their customers. It's as simple as that.

[UpwardForward]

The big difference being that Bush invaded a country and blew up the ME all based on a false premise, if not an intentional lie.

 

 

Obama, on the other hand, kept his eye on the ball and got the man responsible for 911, in addition to pulverizing the terrorists groups who pose a threat, with drone attacks. I have always found it fascinating that Republicans could care less about this. Clearly they don't care about the attack on the US in 2001 or who actually did it.

 

Training for the BinLaden mission began years before Obama took office.

 

No one wants to talk about the fact Obama/Biden sacrificed the identity of the Seal team following the capture, endangering them. Many killed. And our informant is still in prison.

[UpwardForward]

The big difference being that Bush invaded a country and blew up the ME all based on a false premise, if not an intentional lie.

 

Obama, on the other hand, kept his eye on the ball and got the man responsible for 911, in addition to pulverizing the terrorists groups who pose a threat, with drone attacks. I have always found it fascinating that Republicans could care less about this. Clearly they don't care about the attack on the US in 2001 or who actually did it.

 

We were Attacked 8 months into Bush's presidency.

 

Thanks to our troops and the the Bush administration there was control and respect when he left office, leaving the U.S. safer.

 

Obama came in. Within a few years Crisis has developed all over the world.

[Tbisb74]

This thread has veered so far, in one way and/or another, off-topic, that I feel justified in posting this:

 

I think America's stance on the current Israeli/Hamas situation is nothing short of abominable.

 

This from a friend, who is much more politically savvy than I: he has peppered his post with many links to substantiate his comments. Transferring the links would be a monumental task, so I am merely going to highlight where HE has put links in the text, in Bold. If you wish to see the links supporting his comments, mention the link, and I will give it to you.

 

I think it's hard to deny that this current round of violence between Israel and Hamas began when Israel accused Hamas of abducting and murdering three Israelis in the West Bank and started cracking down on Hamas. Many were skeptical that Hamas had anything to do with it, and Hamas itself denied any involvement (which has recently been confirmed by an Israeli police spokesman who said that "a lone cell not operating under Hamas leadership was responsible for the abduction and killing of three Israeli teens last month"); nevertheless, Netanyahu was quick to place the blame squarely on Hamas, saying, "Hamas is responsible, and Hamas will pay."

 

So despite Hamas' denial of involvement, and little to no proof they were involved, Israel initiated a crackdown of Hamas anyway as Netanyahu declared they "knew 'for a fact' that the kidnapping was Hamas’ work." Numerous arrests of Hamas members took place (including members released during the 2011 prisoner exchange), and both commercial and pedestrian crossings into Gaza were closed. As the crackdowns were intensifying, Hamas began firing homemade rockets into Israel in retaliation. Israel responded in turn with 6 airstrikes in Gaza, followed by the shooting death of 15 year-old Mohammad Dudin by the IDF during a search of his home for the three other teens, intensifying outrage.

 

The violence escalated from there, with more Israeli airstrikes, more rocket fire from Hamas, and the murder of a 16 year-old Palestinian boy, who was found "burned alive in a Jerusalem forest, the day after the burial of the three Israeli teens," presumably in revenge. Cue more rocket fire from Hamas (which the US condemned), hundreds of airstrikes by the IDF (which the US said nothing about, of course), and an eventual ground invasion of Gaza by the IDF, culminating thus far in 850 Palestinian casualties (mostly civilians according to the UN) and 5,200 injured (again mostly civilians).

 

In addition to instigating this round of violence, Israel claims it's not intentionally targeting civilians, warning people to leave before attacks come, but Gaza in an open-air prison, there's nowhere for people to go. Israel has bombed almost every part of Gaza, including beaches, hospitals, mosques, sports arenas, fishing boats, and schools, many without any warning at all, like the UN Relief and Works Agency school that was converted into a make-shift shelter for Palestinian families. Yes, there have been Israeli casualties as well, approximately 35 soldiers and 3 civilians (one of which was delivering provisions to soldiers), which are just as tragic as those killed by Israeli forces. But I have a hard time feeling sympathy for Israel's position.

 

What's happening, and has been happening, to the people of Gaza is a horrible crime; and it has to be condemned as well as discouraged, especially by the US. But that's not likely to happen, and I can only conclude from the recent, unanimous Senate vote in support of Israel that our politicians are so blinded by money, political ambition, and/or a clearly one-sided narrative that not one is willing to stand up and say this is wrong and that we need to immediately withdraw our monetary, diplomatic, and military support until Israel ceases this carnage, halts its continued settlement expansions, and ends its apartheid-style treatment of Palestinians.

 

That's why I stand with Gaza....

 

...Even if our taking a hard stand and pushing Israel to it stop its current assault, halt its continued settlement expansions, and end its apartheid-style treatment of Palestinians didn't lead to a lasting peace, I think it's preferable to unanimously supporting what's going on. ...

 

... I think we need to actively put pressure on Israel to loosen its chokehold of Gaza and the West Bank and negotiate a one-state solution seeing as how I don't think a two-state solution will work given the history and logic of settler states.

 

As for the rest, I agree that the US is part of the problem in terms of its fervent support of Israel and its policies (including monetary and military support), as well as our fairly aggressive foreign policy in the region over the past 60+ years. I think both of those things need to change for there to be any hope of a peaceful end to these conflicts. Sitting back while they basically shoot fish in a barrel with Gaza isn't a better alternative, in my opinion.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Tbisb74