The problem with "nice guys" - Comments please

[iceisles]

Originally posted by ConfusedInOC

Trust me, that gets old.

 

Who do you think these women turn to when they've been "wronged" by a bad boy?

 

I personally would rather wait for someone to get that part of their life over with and be ready for a mature relationship. You know, no head games, you love each other, you work at having a good relationship and CARE.

 

Good point. At 24, I'd like to think I'm at the age where women are looking for such solace. But what do I know? People say I'm still young, and I take that to mean, "It could be awhile." I'm tired of waiting, but I also don't want a girl who wants me initially and then leaves me for a bad boy. Oh wait, that already happened.

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by iceisles

Good point. At 24, I'd like to think I'm at the age where women are looking for such solace. But what do I know? People say I'm still young, and I take that to mean, "It could be awhile." I'm tired of waiting, but I also don't want a girl who wants me initially and then leaves me for a bad boy. Oh wait, that already happened.

 

Uhh, bad news, dude. Unless your lucky enough to find someone who thinks on a longer term level, you'll have to wait for someone in their 30s before they begin to realize what relationships are supposed to be like.

 

This is why I think marriage in your 20s is bad mojo. You're not emotionally equipped to handle it not to mention settled enough or stable enough in a career to start a family.

 

That's why we have such a high divorce rate. And it's not just coz we make divorce easy in this country, either.

[alphamale]

Originally posted by ConfusedInOC

Do women get tired of men being Chivalrous when they are in their 40's and up? I mean, at 70 I would still be opening the car door for my wife, bringing her flowers and taking her to romatic dinners and trips. That's just who I am. Love, for me, is eternal.

 

Bad boys fade away, but good boys last a lifetime.

 

 

Dear C.O.C:

 

THere is no reason why you can't do all the nice things above and still be a bad boy. The men who do best with women know when to be nice and when to be bad.

 

You know, one day take her out for a nice romantic dinner and then you don't call her for 2 wks while you're out drinkin with the buddies and going to strip clubs.

[iceisles]

Originally posted by ConfusedInOC

Uhh, bad news, dude. Unless your lucky enough to find someone who thinks on a longer term level, you'll have to wait for someone in their 30s before they begin to realize what relationships are supposed to be like.

 

This is why I think marriage in your 20s is bad mojo. You're not emotionally equipped to handle it not to mention settled enough or stable enough in a career to start a family.

 

That's why we have such a high divorce rate. And it's not just coz we make divorce easy in this country, either.

 

Yeah, the divorce rate in this country is embarrassing. In an odd way, it makes me feel good to know that the trials of love spread far and wide. Just like these forums, it is nice to know you are not alone, wading through misery. My last ex was 22, said she wanted something long-term, even spoke of marriage. Clearly, I don't see that happening with this bad boy she's hooked up with. I think many times, younger women (and even older women?) think they have a firm romantic objective but fail to take a step back and gain perspective on just what they are getting into. I've known girls who have chosen bad boys as a "project", in the hopes of conforming them to their standards. Relationships just don't work like that.

[Fayebelle]

Did you know that high school sweethearts have the highest marriage success rate? Just a little FYI

 

I don't think you can put a # on maturity- ESPECIALLY with relationships. There are too many factors. How old were they when they started dating? How many dates/relationships have they had? What are the parents like? and so on and so on and so on.....

 

Everyone learns at a dif level. I'm 25 my BF is 28- we plan on marrying next yr Other pals of mine are dating guys 3 yrs younger b/c they aren't ready for the commitment yet Just keep looking- you'll find someone to share happiness with

[ntovrhm]

Good luck with the woman with such low-self esteem that she will put up with your b-s alpha. As you said there are so many out there, and I'm sure she will make you happy.

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by alphamale

Dear C.O.C:

 

THere is no reason why you can't do all the nice things above and still be a bad boy. The men who do best with women know when to be nice and when to be bad.

 

You know, one day take her out for a nice romantic dinner and then you don't call her for 2 wks while you're out drinkin with the buddies and going to strip clubs.

 

Well I don't drink and I don't go to strip clubs (I'm a Christian, remember?). I can see not calling her too much (which I am not doing). And I find myself being less and less inclined to call.

 

Chalk it up to learning the hard way.

[ntovrhm]

Iceisles is right. Some woman do like like the challange of a bad boy in order to change them. Hopefully they learn their lesson before they marry them

[blind_otter]

I've given up and now assume that anyone I am immediately attracted to must be evil or bad and therefore I don't trust my taste in men anymore at all.

 

My Dad was a bad boy and then got all good after he met my mom. When he was 41 and she was 18. My Dad says men don't mature before the age of 40 anyways.

 

Lots of women want to "fix" a man. I've been guilty of it. Hell, the last 5 years of my life have been dedicated to helping various men help themselves to my body, my home, and my money.

 

For me, it has always been low self-esteem that made me want a bad boy. I have tons of insight into my behavior but still feel very out of control in relationships. It's so confusing. I long to be treated properly, I ache for it. I never have been.

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by Fayebelle

Did you know that high school sweethearts have the highest marriage success rate? Just a little FYI

 

I agree. That's because you grow together and because you shared so much of your life to that point, you really do bond.

 

I don't think you can put a # on maturity- ESPECIALLY with relationships. There are too many factors. How old were they when they started dating? How many dates/relationships have they had? What are the parents like? and so on and so on and so on.....

 

Everyone learns at a dif level. I'm 25 my BF is 28- we plan on marrying next yr Other pals of mine are dating guys 3 yrs younger b/c they aren't ready for the commitment yet Just keep looking- you'll find someone to share happiness with

 

Agreed. I didn't mean EVERYONE matures at the same time but simply that for the most part, early 20's people are still not stable enough with a job/career/life enough to make a marriage work.

 

I didn't mature until about 3 years ago. Waaay late. I am sure others mature earlier or later, I can only speak on what I've seen.

[ConfusedInOC]

There should be a dating site with just bad boys and one with just good boys.

 

At least then you could eliminate a lot of mismatches! LOL

[iceisles]

Originally posted by ConfusedInOC

There should be a dating site with just bad boys and one with just good boys.

 

At least then you could eliminate a lot of mismatches! LOL

 

Maybe my personals ad would get more responses if I changed my name to "Dr. Badass" and featured a photo of me on a Harley giving the bird to a large crowd of people.

[alphamale]

Originally posted by iceisles

My last ex was 22, said she wanted something long-term, even spoke of marriage. Clearly, I don't see that happening with this bad boy she's hooked up with. I think many times, younger women (and even older women?) think they have a firm romantic objective but fail to take a step back and gain perspective on just what they are getting into. I've known girls who have chosen bad boys as a "project", in the hopes of conforming them to their standards. Relationships just don't work like that.

 

 

Dear ICEISLES:

 

Women will tell you what they THINK they want. But they cannot tell you what they NEED. Women will go to the grave saying "I just want a nice guy". But when the nice guy knocks on her door she slams it in his face and goes off on a romp with some bad dude.

 

Women cannot communicate to you what they NEED. You have to know instinctiually what they NEED and the bad boys know what they NEED.

[blind_otter]

Originally posted by alphamale

Dear ICEISLES:

 

Women will tell you what they THINK they want. But they cannot tell you what they NEED. Women will go to the grave saying "I just want a nice guy". But when the nice guy knocks on her door she slams it in his face and goes off on a romp with some bad dude.

 

Women cannot communicate to you what they NEED. You have to know instinctiually what they NEED and the bad boys know what they NEED.

 

Well, like, what is a bad guy? And is there a limit? I mean, is an abusive man a bad boy? Or someone who's been to prison? Or is it more, a man who is selfish and neglectful?

[iceisles]

Originally posted by blind_otter

Well, like, what is a bad guy? And is there a limit? I mean, is an abusive man a bad boy? Or someone who's been to prison? Or is it more, a man who is selfish and neglectful?

 

I think it may be a lot of things: a relentless disregard of others, exciting (perhaps illegal) hobbies, a "tough guy" attitude, an inflated ego, or just a thrilling risk-taker. The list probably goes on and on, but the divide between a "nice guy" and a "bad boy" is wider than the Grand Canyon.

[alphamale]

Originally posted by blind_otter

Well, like, what is a bad guy? And is there a limit? I mean, is an abusive man a bad boy? Or someone who's been to prison? Or is it more, a man who is selfish and neglectful?

 

When I mean "bad boy" I'm not talking Ted Bundy or some major criminal. I'm talking about a man who is a bit arrogant, agressive, cocky, selfish and takes care of himself first before all else.

 

Women's characteristics are to be modest, selfless and take care of others first. Women are opposites of men. Therefore a real woman with real female characteristeics is majorly attracted to a real man with real male characteristics.

[murasaki]

Wow, lots of comments on this thread. I haven't read through them all but just wanted to respond to this:

 

Originally posted by alphamale

 

What I was referring to in the original post are the really nice guys. You know the type, would do anyting for anyone, never get mad, no spine, agree with everyone, are friends with lots of women.

 

I think this is at the heart of the "nice guys finish last" misunderstanding. Someone who would do anything for me, who never gets mad, who has no spine and agrees with everything I say is not someone who is very interesting or engaging. And in all likelihood, it's someone who is not being very honest. Never gets mad, huh? Thinks everything I say is right on the money? Either he doesn't know me very well, or he's hiding his real reactions -- or both. Neither are good characteristics in a potential romantic partner.

 

Of course I want someone who has a strong sense of integrity, who is kind to others generally and to me in particular, who is respectful of others, has control of his temper, etc. I don't like lots of game-playing. But I don't want to be with a yes-man (or, I suppose, a "yes-ma'am") who is afraid to challenge me if he disagrees, who doesn't have interesting ideas that he's passionate about, who never allows me to see any rough edges. I have -- against my better judgment -- dated such guys a couple of times, guys that I'd been friends with and had not felt there was much chemistry, but when they indicated that they wanted to try dating me, I thought, "why should I not date this perfectly nice guy? He hasn't set my heart racing, but if he thinks there's something there I should give it a try." Disasters -- they bent over backwards trying to anticipate what I wanted, when what I wanted was for them to be themselves, and let me respond to them honestly.

 

And in both cases, one memorably so, there came a point where I did openly disagree with them about something (I have strong opinions but generally I'm quite easy-going and will only get obstinate about something if I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about). They couldn't handle it, and one guy basically had a temper tantrum ... his insecurities finally came to the surface. I think they mistook lack of disagreement for genuine engagement.

 

Maybe some women do really like bad boys. I don't. I just want someone who can hold his own positions, and respect when I do too. Someone who has his own life, his own interests.

[blind_otter]

Originally posted by iceisles

I think it may be a lot of things: a relentless disregard of others, exciting (perhaps illegal) hobbies, a "tough guy" attitude, an inflated ego, or just a thrilling risk-taker. The list probably goes on and on, but the divide between a "nice guy" and a "bad boy" is wider than the Grand Canyon.

 

Well I know about the difference between nice guys and bad boys - but I'm curious as to what limits there are on the behavior of a bad boy - when does it become abusive?

 

 

Originally posted by alphamale

When I mean "bad boy" I'm not talking Ted Bundy or some major criminal. I'm talking about a man who is a bit arrogant, agressive, cocky, selfish and takes care of himself first before all else.

 

Women's characteristics are to be modest, selfless and take care of others first. Women are opposites of men. Therefore a real woman with real female characteristeics is majorly attracted to a real man with real male characteristics.

 

My mother refers to my ex-BFs as the "caveman club". Admittedly, I like a man who can actually tell me to pull my head out of my ass (as it is firmly lodged there about 75% of the time), and I will regularly refer to myself and other females as emotionally random (sounds better than "crazy b*tch").

 

But in all honesty I don't think I've ever attracted a nice guy - the only men who are attracted to me are bad bad bad people. Or at least, the nice guys never had the balls to ask me out when I was available.

 

I want a nice guy who can still tell me to pull my head out of my ass.

[ntovrhm]

Women and men are not opposites of each other. Human being are complex creatures.

[sporteguy03]

Ok, I'll put in my two cents into this about Nice Guys.

 

As a Nice Guy I have never:

1.Raped a Girl.

2.Forced Sex on a girl.

3. Always put my 100% into anything leaving nothing to fate.

 

I'm not perfect, and I'm not a wimp either in fact I like taking on bad boys and putting them in their place. I respect Women for being of equal stature to men. Remember without women men would not still be created so they have a powerful gift men don't have fertility at least the last time I checked. I'm not a control freak needing to ask my girl where she is 24/7. I'm still a virgin at 24 and I'm a winner not a loser because all the girls I met pale in comparsion to what I could meet. I'm a strong minded person I don't give in to lust or temptation, that makes a guy stronger not weaker.

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by murasaki

Wow, lots of comments on this thread. I haven't read through them all but just wanted to respond to this:

 

 

 

I think this is at the heart of the "nice guys finish last" misunderstanding. Someone who would do anything for me, who never gets mad, who has no spine and agrees with everything I say is not someone who is very interesting or engaging. And in all likelihood, it's someone who is not being very honest. Never gets mad, huh? Thinks everything I say is right on the money? Either he doesn't know me very well, or he's hiding his real reactions -- or both. Neither are good characteristics in a potential romantic partner.

 

Of course I want someone who has a strong sense of integrity, who is kind to others generally and to me in particular, who is respectful of others, has control of his temper, etc. I don't like lots of game-playing. But I don't want to be with a yes-man (or, I suppose, a "yes-ma'am") who is afraid to challenge me if he disagrees, who doesn't have interesting ideas that he's passionate about, who never allows me to see any rough edges. I have -- against my better judgment -- dated such guys a couple of times, guys that I'd been friends with and had not felt there was much chemistry, but when they indicated that they wanted to try dating me, I thought, "why should I not date this perfectly nice guy? He hasn't set my heart racing, but if he thinks there's something there I should give it a try." Disasters -- they bent over backwards trying to anticipate what I wanted, when what I wanted was for them to be themselves, and let me respond to them honestly.

 

And in both cases, one memorably so, there came a point where I did openly disagree with them about something (I have strong opinions but generally I'm quite easy-going and will only get obstinate about something if I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about). They couldn't handle it, and one guy basically had a temper tantrum ... his insecurities finally came to the surface. I think they mistook lack of disagreement for genuine engagement.

 

Maybe some women do really like bad boys. I don't. I just want someone who can hold his own positions, and respect when I do too. Someone who has his own life, his own interests.

 

What you just described is me, but because I don't have a "dark" side, I am generally termed a "nice guy." I swear when I am angry. I am not perfect. I disagree with her and I don't mind that she knows that. We argue mostly about intellectual stuff though, not petty things.

 

My one insecurity is leaving my feelings on my shoulder....

[alphamale]

Originally posted by ntovrhm

Women and men are not opposites of each other. Human being are complex creatures.

 

BULL-ONEY ntovrhm:

 

- women can have kids, men cannot

- women are in general more emotional, men less so

- women like to shop, men like to watch sports

- women nurture and want everyone included, men do stuff by themselves

- women can be emotionally violent, men can be physically violent

- women feel less pain, men feel more pain (physical pain I mean)

- women tend to be more selfless, men more selfish

- women love little kids, men love their toys

 

and there are many other examples. sure, women and men share some qualities, like breathing air and shytting and stuff but essentially we are two different creatures.

[Stone]

I like bad boy's but i am a complete Bi**h, I've dated a few nice guys and droped them quick because I felt that I could walk all over them and i didn't like that. Nice guys just need to look for nice girls

[blind_otter]

We also have different sized structures in our brain, and psychologically men gain more personal satisfaction from achieving in their profession, while women statistically gain more personal satisfaction from achieving successin their personal relationships...I just read a research summary about that stuff a friend in the psych master's program asked me to edit for finals.

[alphamale]

Originally posted by Stone

I like bad boy's but i am a complete Bi**h, I've dated a few nice guys and droped them quick because I felt that I could walk all over them and i didn't like that. Nice guys just need to look for nice girls

 

This is a nice thought STONE but unfortunately even the "nice girls" are running after the bad boys.

 

It is sorta like the attractiveness theory. Everyone likes good looking people. So whether you yourself are ugly, avg, or attractive you will most likely want an attractive mate.