The problem with "nice guys" - Comments please

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by immoralist

You take alphamale too seriously, dyer. We get a steady diet on LS, by example and counter-example, of right thinking, responsible, and respectful male model behavior.

The thing is, people will take it seriously. Not everyone's laughing at it, some people are taking notes.

 

Give me uninteligible dick-lay chatter any day.

Hell, the dreaded, universally reviled MM haunts these boards by his absence.

Heh, I doubt that.

[johan]

Dyermaker has a point, you have to admit. I'll be watching the headlines tomorrow for news of rampaging doormats. Who knows what kind of trouble we've started?

[dyermaker]

What a preposterous idea--Imagine a doormat thinking he's in love with Carrie Fisher and shooting the President to prove his worth!

[alphamale]

Originally posted by dyermaker

What a preposterous idea--Imagine a doormat thinking he's in love with Carrie Fisher and shooting the President to prove his worth!

 

I believe it was Jodi Foster, not Carrie Fisher

[alphamale]

Originally posted by johan

Face it alpha, you're a nice guy. A sheep in wolf's clothing. Some girl will appreciate you for everything you aren't trying to be and you won't have to waste so much energy proclaiming your alphaness.

 

 

I can tell from your posts and your point of view that you have little experience with women.

 

Most guys who have little experience with the opposite sex think like you.

[whichwayisup]

Yeah what I don't understand is how come Alphamale all of a sudden has become the bad guy in this and being attacked?? This thread is very interesting and I've enjoyed reading what everybody's opinion is in this discussion. Now it just seems others can't stop personal attacks just because he's being honest?? Yes he's blunt, but SO WHAT?? I may not agree with some of what he has said, but obviously with his own life experiences he is who he is because of it!! And it does all make sense too! Nice guys come with rough edges...My husband has some. He is a great guy MOST of the time, but he has his shining moments, just like I do! s*** , I know at times I'm no prize to be around lol!

 

Just don't take stuff so personally, a well thought discussion is wonderful until it starts to get petty and personal!

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by alphamale

I believe it was Jodi Foster, not Carrie Fisher

Indeed, it totally kills my joke.

Originally posted by alphamale

I can tell from your posts and your point of view that you have little experience with women.

Some people are quick learners, I guess.

Originally posted by whichwayisup

Now it just seems others can't stop personal attacks just because he's being honest??

Let me reiterate: Nothing is personal.

 

I'm just afraid that some people will read it, and it will slow their maturity.

[johan]

Originally posted by alphamale

 

 

 

I can tell from your posts and your point of view that you have little experience with women.

 

Most guys who have little experience with the opposite sex think like you.

Wrong. I'll share my resume after I see yours.

I have see so many guys (including myself) get burned and taken advantage of by women that it makes me sick.

 

Men in the U.S. need to stand up and be counted. This country is run by females if you take a look around. Men are being used and abused each and every day in relationships.

You clearly consider women your worst enemy. I hope that some day you meet a good one who changes your mind.

 

Yeah what I don't understand is how come Alphamale all of a sudden has become the bad guy in this and being attacked?

Alphamale identified himself as a "bad guy". Read above. I've teased him, and I can see how that could have been taken as an attack if he were sensitive. But I didn't mean it as any kind of personal challenge. I haven't seen anyone attack him, but I've seen lots of attacks on his bad ideas.

[reasontosigh]

Originally posted by dyermaker

..........Give me uninteligible dick-lay chatter any day. .......

 

 

[MelodyJ]

Originally posted by dyermaker

Would you sleep with him?

 

No. With that kind of view on women, it sounds like he would be a selfish lover. And I'm certain he would consider me a b*tch!

[bebop]

Originally posted by dyermaker

The trouble with the whole "nice guy/bad guy" polarization is that it never translates to self-respect, it translates to abandoning respect altogether. Which, as Moi points out, is nothing more than immaturity.

 

The proccess is usually this:

 

1. Boy is nice to people in general.

2. Boy meets nice girl.

3. Boy is nice to girl.

4. They're enchanted with one another, and pursue a nice relationship.

5. Boy becomes doormat, in his head he thinks he's being nice.

6. Girl likes the niceness, but wishes he wasn't such a doormat.

7. Girl eventually grows bored of doormat, and finds a nice guy who isn't one.

8. Boy becomes upset, and decides that the reason he was dumped was because he was nice.

9. Boy reads D'angelo, listens to Tom Lykas, becomes alphamale.

10. Boy starts treating girls like crap, attracting girls who are attracted to that.

11. Boy dangerously starts advising others to stop showing women respect, and they listen.

12. The real nice guys, who can accept a woman's preference without playing manipulative games, live happily ever after with whomever's left.

 

EXACTLY.

[bebop]

I'm glad that alpha started this thread and I thoroughly enjoy reading through it.

Sometimes alpha's comments make me laugh out loud. Once in awhile.

But for the most part he comes across as an Embittered Person standing on the Mount at dawn, prosletyzing to bunches of men all too willing to listen, outfitting them in Fred Flintstone leopard-print suits, taking away their shoes, and equipping them with clubs, after which they take his proclamations out into The World and actually put them to use. That's the trouble, that anyone would employ these outlooks in actual life.

[alphamale]

Originally posted by bebop

I'm glad that alpha started this thread and I thoroughly enjoy reading through it.

Sometimes alpha's comments make me laugh out loud.

 

The persona that I have on line is created and I do it to enliven dialogue and to be controversial. Being boring is akin to death in the on-line forum world.

 

But I do advocate my viewpoints and thought and I don't hate women. I actually LOVE women. All I say is that men should be men, be emotionally strong, be selfish sometimes and take care of themselves.

 

And one last comment of JOHAN and DYER:

 

Remember back in high school (22 yrs ago for me)? Who got the best looking and most popular women that every dude wanted? It was the cocky, arrogant, masculine, dumb jocks who played football and made fun of the nerds who eventually went on to get a 3.85 gpa and go on to MIT and get a high paying job but, albeit, still a nerd.

 

Well fast forward another 25 yrs post high school and you will still see the same thing going on. All that shyt that happened in high school goes on for the rest of life except people are a bit more mature and don't steal your lunch anymore.

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by alphamale

All that shyt that happened in high school goes on for the rest of life

For some people, this is true.

 

Others, however, grow up--and the only reason I oppose what you're saying is because I think the defeatist 'nice guys finish last' nonsense is an imposition to that proccess.

[moimeme]

Well fast forward another 25 yrs post high school and you will still see the same thing going on

 

Only if you still hang out with people who never matured beyond that.

[Dakini]

Originally posted by alphamale

... I don't hate women. I actually LOVE women.

 

 

...right. Interesting definition of love.

[johan]

Originally posted by alphamale

Remember back in high school (22 yrs ago for me)? Who got the best looking and most popular women that every dude wanted? It was the cocky, arrogant, masculine, dumb jocks who played football and made fun of the nerds who eventually went on to get a 3.85 gpa and go on to MIT and get a high paying job but, albeit, still a nerd.

 

Well fast forward another 25 yrs post high school and you will still see the same thing going on. All that shyt that happened in high school goes on for the rest of life except people are a bit more mature and don't steal your lunch anymore.

 

I would have guessed you were 20 - 25.

 

I remember high school, 16 years ago for me. Sounds like you missed this: most of those cocky, arrogant, masculine, dumb, jocks were actually really good guys. At heart, those guys actually aren't any different from your MIT nerds. And some of those good looking, popular women weren't worth getting too jealous over.

 

I was outside all the cliques, by the way. I was never a jock, but I knew some of them and I liked them. Some of the MIT-bound kids were cool, too. I like nice people much better than arrogant people.

 

The high school popularity contest should have been left in high school.

[dyermaker]

Yes, I seem to remember High School too...

[Chris_T.]

I think this whole "nice guy" vs. "bad boy" thing boils down to this. Women don't want a man who will treat them like crap, they want a man who is nice, treats them with respect but is not a DOORMAT who will allow them to walk all over him. They want someone who is good to them but will be willing to call them on things. They don't want an arrogant jerk, but they don't want a sappy, feminine man who has no spine.

 

This has been my experience.

[RowanRavyn]

I think a lot of what is being discussed here applied to BOTH sexes.

 

I believe as human beings (neither male or female more than the other) we have to respect ourselves and love ourselves first to find a healthy relationship. That said....

 

you really do sound bitter alphamale. Its sad really.

 

I was married to a guy who was all male. If a picture was so much as out of place he "Put me in my Place." At least if he has been an @$$ from the beginning I would have known what I was getting into. I slowly started gaining respect for myself and I left.

 

I am now marrying a REALLY nice guy. Who is a martial artist and has been studying the arts for almost 25 years. He can crush a walnut in his hand. He is strong, sexy, honest and really one of the sweetest human beings in the world. He cried like a baby when his cat died, sometimes he cries at movies. He is thoughtful, romantic, and a goofball. He has held my hair when I was sick, picked my fat bum up and put me in bed when I was too weak to do it myself. He taught my daughter that while she should be a good human being, just because she is a girl doesn't mean she has to be a doormat, and taught my son that just because he is strong he can also be kind.

 

Nice guys do not always finish last, nor do they need to morph into a testosterone laden jerk.

[alphamale]

Originally posted by Chris_T.

I think this whole "nice guy" vs. "bad boy" thing boils down to this. Women don't want a man who will treat them like crap, they want a man who is nice, treats them with respect but is not a DOORMAT who will allow them to walk all over him. They want someone who is good to them but will be willing to call them on things. They don't want an arrogant jerk, but they don't want a sappy, feminine man who has no spine.

 

This has been my experience.

 

I agree totally and this is what I am trying to say with this post. The ideal man is a combo of good boy and bad boy and everything in between.

[Bob47]

From my experience, women don't really want a guy to call them on things either. Everyone says that females value a male's perspective on life, but I've learned that when you actually give the male perspective, they'd rather just have you agree with them. Guys, isn't this true?

 

The nice guys have morals. The nice guys really respect the women they like. The nice guys have always been taught to treat women like queens--but when they do, they just end up making "friends". The hardest thing for me is that no matter how kind, honest, and trustworthy I try to be, it never gets me anywhere. I'm just learning now that I should have learned how to play "the game" a long time ago.

 

But it is frustrating. Everyone tells you to "just be yourself". For some guys like me, that has gotten me nowhere.

[tokyo]

Originally posted by Bob47

The nice guys have morals. The nice guys really respect the women they like. The nice guys have always been taught to treat women like queens--but when they do, they just end up making "friends". The hardest thing for me is that no matter how kind, honest, and trustworthy I try to be, it never gets me anywhere. I'm just learning now that I should have learned how to play "the game" a long time ago.

 

Listen, being nice, trustworthy, kind is just NOT ENOUGH. I expect from a guy to be nice, trustworthy and honest, but there are a lot of other things that I also expect from him. You guys obviously just concentrate on pleasing the woman that you are pursuing at the momen, but don´t you have some life of your own?? I would like to share some similar interest with my man, if he obviously has not other interest in life than to be nice, trustworthy and kind than I´m not interested, period. You get appreciated for your kindness, but why should I want to spend time with you? Some guys make it look as if all these adjectives should be enough to make a woman fall in love with them, I consider them conditio sin que non, but it´s not enough. I would reject a guy with whom I don´t share any interests. I´m going to spend a lot of time with my partner, so I would like to be compatible with him. I want to feel some chemistry between us.

 

I may also add that the nice guys often run after women who are out of their league. So, looks like they´re also too picky, too picky to take a woman that they could get. But in patriarchal societies most women will still prefer a man who is at least their equal.

 

You think that you can compensate lack of similar interest or failure to match other criteria with being supernice. I don´t think this will work. Instead of making yourself more attractive by getting an hobby or by improving yourself which might include anything from getting in better shape or simply getting a better haircut you think that by being even more more more more nicer you will attract a woman. I telly you, you simply look desperate. There´s a difference between a nice guy who is confident and a guy who is desperately nice, because he thinks that´s what a woman wants. But as I said before, there are a lot more criteria to match when you chose a partner. If she´s a high maintenance gal who wants a rich good-looking guy and you are pennyless and average looking you´re out of the game and you can try as hard as you can, it will lead you nowhere.

 

I do know a nice guy, in fact he tends to get pushed around. He´s also very emotional and I absolutely love this about him. At the same time he has the drive to make the best use of his life and his potential and this is something that I admire about him. I tend to believe that this is the key to success, you have to make a woman admire something about you, whatever this may be.

 

 

Everyone tells you to "just be yourself".

 

What they mean to say is: "Get a life. Be happy. Don´t worry about getting a woman too much and things will turn out fine. Like your life and develop some self-confidence for yourself, then you wouldn´t have to worry about getting a woman, they will come naturally, because you look like you could make them happy. If you look desperate they will think you are not able to cope with life."

[renee2004]

You either are a nice guy or you aren't, personally I would be disgusted if a guy pretended to be someone he's not. Be yourself, some girls like nice guys some don't.... that's the way it works..

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by RowanRavyn

I think a lot of what is being discussed here applied to BOTH sexes.

 

I believe as human beings (neither male or female more than the other) we have to respect ourselves and love ourselves first to find a healthy relationship. That said....

 

you really do sound bitter alphamale. Its sad really.

 

I was married to a guy who was all male. If a picture was so much as out of place he "Put me in my Place." At least if he has been an @$$ from the beginning I would have known what I was getting into. I slowly started gaining respect for myself and I left.

 

I am now marrying a REALLY nice guy. Who is a martial artist and has been studying the arts for almost 25 years. He can crush a walnut in his hand. He is strong, sexy, honest and really one of the sweetest human beings in the world. He cried like a baby when his cat died, sometimes he cries at movies. He is thoughtful, romantic, and a goofball. He has held my hair when I was sick, picked my fat bum up and put me in bed when I was too weak to do it myself. He taught my daughter that while she should be a good human being, just because she is a girl doesn't mean she has to be a doormat, and taught my son that just because he is strong he can also be kind.

 

Nice guys do not always finish last, nor do they need to morph into a testosterone laden jerk.

 

Where can I find a woman who appreciates a man like that? Other than studying Martial Arts for 25 years (only several for me), you just described me