Consolidated discussion - The Friend Zone

[somedude81]

I agree men FZ women based on looks more than women. I also think its a myth that men are FZ'd more than women. Guys do it all the time. The difference is the girl will never have sex with a guy she FZ'd so you get a lot of bitter rants and posts by sexually frustrated men on LS. Whereas a guy will often sleep with a girl he FZ'd until something better comes along. It's called FWB... The women may not even realize that's the case. Se may think they are BF/GF. That's why the vast majority of frustrated female posts here are AFTER she slept with him and she is wondering what happened...

I have a very difficult time in feeling sorry for those girls because they broke a very well known rule. Don't have sex without commitment.

 

Which makes things even worse is that many times the girl thinks she has to have sex early with the guy in order to keep him. Yeah, we all know how well that works out.

[CryForNoOne]

I've always maintained that this "friendzone" doesn't exist. The whole concept (not just the term) was invented by guys who were rejected by certain women as a justification, and it spread by means of message boards like every other Internet meme. The phrase "Let's just be friends!" actually means "I'm not attracted to you [for whatever reason]." and should be read as such. In most cases the girl doesn't really desire a genuine friendship, just normal acquaintanceship in which there is no awkwardness (though that's hard to avoid once the romantic intentions become clear).

 

Guys have overanalysed this friendzone to death, and conjectured that it occurred due to one or more of the following reasons:

 

 

• acting towards a girl in a friendly way;
  
• waiting too long before making your intentions clear;
  
• not making your intentions clear in an exactly prescribed way (by PUA);
  
• not being an alpha and cocky towards a girl;
  
• ...
  

I've seen enough evidence around me of guys who behaved in ways listed above and still got their girl. There isn't one single way to behave which creates attraction. We're people, and people like different things. I'm sure not all guys like the same type of woman either.

 

Remember guys, you inflict "friendzone" on yourself, rather than the girl dooming you with it intentionally. You always have a choice: keep the girl's company while being careful not to end up as an "orbiter"; or break all contacts with the girl if it's too awkward for you to be in the presence of a girl who doesn't want you. Like some Christian interpretations of Hell, the friendzone doesn't exist as a place, it's just a state of mind.

 

Since "friendzone"is not even an official English word, I think it is important for each person to define his interpretation of the word/phrase. I'd argue the FZ does exist but the term is sorely overused in many cases of simple rejection. This is my definition from my own personal experiences but FZing can only occur once previous romantic interest was clearly demonstrated by both parties, then subsequently ended by one with the "let's be friends" conversation. So examples of friend zoning are:

 

- FZ'd by a relative stranger after multiple dates.

- FZ'd after sex or intimacy beyond first date kissing and hand holding.

- FZ'd after a date IF you were already friends.

 

Examples of rejection - not friend zoning:

 

- They decline first date after showing initial interest.

- They lose interest during / after first date.

- Any situation when one refuses to date a friend.

 

Then I suppose there is the Ross - Rachel FZ where the guy/girl secretly pines after the other but is afraid to express his feelings. I guess that is the classic definition but I don't think of the phrase in those terms much because frankly I stopped doing that type of crap after college...

[hppr]

The problem with what gravityman posted is that men view sex as relationship success. If you aren't getting laid (but you want to) then it's a failure. As to the guy that posted this thread...I've only been friendzoned when I let it happen. Girl's not interested in you, you want more, fine, MOVE ON. You can only end up in the friendzone if you continually make yourself available for her, she'll take advantage of you, it's like the female version of bootycall except instead of sex you just end up as a shoulder to cry on.

[Mr_Flay]

- FZ'd by a relative stranger after multiple dates.

- FZ'd after sex or intimacy beyond first date kissing and hand holding.

- FZ'd after a date IF you were already friends.

 

These could merely be examples of a "postponed rejection". Sometimes people decide to give someone a chance despite feeling lukewarm about them. They'll go on multiple dates, and they might kiss or even have sex with that person to see whether it will spark some semblance of attraction. Then, if it doesn't work, they simply do what they should've done before the first date, and reject the person.

[somedude81]

Examples of rejection - not friend zoning:

 

- Any situation when one refuses to date a friend.

Actually, that is the classic example of a friendzone. A woman refuses to date a guy because he is only a friend to her.

 

Another variation is a guy has interest in a girl first, tries to get close to her but doesn't quite know how attraction works so he stumbles into a friendship with her, eventually he'll get the balls to ask her out. Of course she says no and more often than not she will still want to be friends.

 

I'd say that, that is the most common example of the friendzone. And one that has happened to me with many girls. Hell it's on the verge of it happening with me right now, but I didn't let myself become a friend with this girl. I have no control over attracting women, but at least I can stop a friendship from forming

[Revolver]

I have a very difficult time in feeling sorry for those girls because they broke a very well known rule. Don't have sex without commitment.

 

Which makes things even worse is that many times the girl thinks she has to have sex early with the guy in order to keep him. Yeah, we all know how well that works out.

 

This is true

[Revolver]

A lot of women tend to downplay just how much physical attraction plays into their selection of males and the extent to which physical attraction makes them overlook deficits in their other traits. It's the politically correct thing to do and makes them sound more noble. Men will do similar things depending on the conversation, of course.

 

Although I've had my share of conversations about this topic with women directly, I've learned that you get a more accurate picture (and this is usually true regardless of the context) by overhearing the conversations they have among themselves. As far as I can tell, this idea that physical attraction isn't among the most important things they look for is relegated to this little corner of the internet. After all, regardless of what their beliefs on a given topic may be, most people who post here seem to think that LoveShack is not an accurate reflection of the real-life dating and relationship landscape, and tend to warn newcomers accordingly.

 

The fact that this is the case, however, is not an excuse to adopt a fatalistic attitude towards dating.

 

This is also true.

[Revolver]

I agree men FZ women based on looks more than women. I also think its a myth that men are FZ'd more than women. Guys do it all the time. The difference is the girl will never have sex with a guy she FZ'd so you get a lot of bitter rants and posts by sexually frustrated men on LS. Whereas a guy will often sleep with a girl he FZ'd until something better comes along. It's called FWB... The women may not even realize that's the case. Se may think they are BF/GF. That's why the vast majority of frustrated female posts here are AFTER she slept with him and she is wondering what happened...

 

Um... FZ is when there's no romantic or sexual interest. If I'm having sex with you you're not in my "friendzone".

 

And the majority of FWB and Bootycall setups aren't some lie or manipulation by the guy. The women know the deal and are ok with it, if they're dumb enough to believe they can turn a Bootycall into a relationship that was their fault

[joystickd]

Charming. I think there's a happy medium between rejections like that, which are outright abusive and totally uncalled for, and a rejection that's so ambiguous that you don't actually realise it's a rejection.

 

I've delivered rejections that were blunter and more unkind than I'd like before, but only in the face of really pushy persistence where I feel that the person isn't showing awareness/respect for boundaries or is being obnoxious in their approach. Even then, I would never have used the kind of insults you describe, which are absolutely horrible and completely unnecessary.

 

I think Mr Flay put it really well:

 

 

 

I should think most people have had rejections at some point. Not just romantic rejections, but rejections from friends, for jobs, people who write books get rejections, people who are brave insane enough to go on tv talent shows get rejections etc. Having a string of rejections to your name might feel awful in some ways, but it's also a mark of the person who isn't afraid to go for what they want. Who is brave enough to risk rejection.

 

Times I've been rejected, I know I take it personally if the individual is blunt and obviously doesn't give a sh*t about my feelings. I wouldn't hold a grudge, but I wouldn't do somebody like that any favours at a future date....whereas I know that when I was looking for a traineeship (for example) most of the firms I wrote to on spec would write back nice letters along the lines of "we don't have a place right now, but are certain you will have no difficulty finding a training contract and wish you all the best."

 

So then, when you're in practice and you have experience you remember those people who treated you like a human being when you were struggling to find a place, and you're more likely to do them a favour.

 

I think as Mr Flay suggests, "we can still be friends" is often just a combination of trying to be nice and also a bit of a "please let's not have any awkwardness/don't hold the rejection against me..." plea. Of course, if the person you're dealing with is of a mindset to hold grudges and take revenge, where they can, against somebody they've felt rejected by, saying "let's be friends" isn't going to change that. However, a blunt rejection might increase the chances of them reacting angrily and aggressively.

 

Some people do take o very badly...and it's not always easy to predict which men will react in the kind of laid back "okay, no hard feelings" way (that can, by the way, result in a woman regretting her decision) and which will react with such hurt and anger that it could go very badly. We all have to tread carefully at times.

I always felt like let's be friends was fake. If you don't want me just say no. It's as simple as that. I mean I am not afraid to say no not interested or not my type and leave it at that.

[tbf]

I always felt like let's be friends was fake. If you don't want me just say no. It's as simple as that. I mean I am not afraid to say no not interested or not my type and leave it at that.

Are you certain they're not interested in befriending you? If you consider the difference between platonic or not, the divide is usually sexual chemistry.

 

Is it really that insulting that someone wouldn't be attracted but like you enough to want to get to know you better? To me, it's not insulting when someone doesn't find me sexually attractive, if they like me enough to want friendship. It's also okay if they don't want either, as long as its handled respectfully.

[fortyninethousand322]

Are you certain they're not interested in befriending you? If you consider the difference between platonic or not, the divide is usually sexual chemistry.

 

Is it really that insulting that someone wouldn't be attracted but like you enough to want to get to know you better? To me, it's not insulting when someone doesn't find me sexually attractive, if they like me enough to want friendship. It's also okay if they don't want either, as long as its handled respectfully.

 

Well, sometimes they don't actually want to get to know you better they are just saying that. Which is insulting if they think you're gullible enough to believe a crock of you know what.

 

But assuming they do genuinely want to get to know you as a friend/platonic relationship, that's not insulting. It's just not something that would work for a large number of people...

[joystickd]

Are you certain they're not interested in befriending you? If you consider the difference between platonic or not, the divide is usually sexual chemistry.

 

Is it really that insulting that someone wouldn't be attracted but like you enough to want to get to know you better? To me, it's not insulting when someone doesn't find me sexually attractive, if they like me enough to want friendship. It's also okay if they don't want either, as long as its handled respectfully.

My thing is if I wanted friendship my attempt would have been at friendship. I'd rather be nothing than settle for friendship. That is why I just prefer a no. I don't want to be around for a boost to her ego. I guess that is why I just f**k married women and women in relationships. Too much BS to single women

[tbf]

Well, sometimes they don't actually want to get to know you better they are just saying that. Which is insulting if they think you're gullible enough to believe a crock of you know what.

 

But assuming they do genuinely want to get to know you as a friend/platonic relationship, that's not insulting. It's just not something that would work for a large number of people...

Difference of cup half full or half empty. The belief that the world is a dangerous place, instead of the seeking of possibilities.

[joystickd]

Difference of cup half full or half empty. The belief that the world is a dangerous place, instead of the seeking of possibilities.

Here is the thing usually when its "Let's just be friends" there is no effort on their part generally to be friends that is why its fake. That is why its a black/white situation for me. Either you are interested or you are not. I'm not settling for the BS of the friends. Do any of you women settle for being a f**kbuddy when you want more than that?

[fortyninethousand322]

Difference of cup half full or half empty. The belief that the world is a dangerous place, instead of the seeking of possibilities.

 

Not sure if that's exactly it.

 

I mean if I had feelings for someone and they only wanted to be friends with me, I guess I could be friends with them. I just wouldn't want to spend any time around them. Until I found someone else who I fancied.

 

This has never happened to me though. When someone is interested in me they don't want me delivering their morning paper let alone being friends with me.

 

I'm just speaking hypothetically. I wouldn't be interested in having a platonic friend that I viewed romantically.

[joystickd]

I'm just speaking hypothetically. I wouldn't be interested in having a platonic friend that I viewed romantically.

No man would. The funny thing is these women try to sell the BS to us. They know if a man just said they could only be a f**kbuddy when they wanted more they would have a fit.

[Ufcrocks1969]

The problem with you guys that you're too seriously. These friends can be a gold mine. One of my sister was introduced through a friend. If she wasn't friends with a guy she wouldn't have met my brother in law.

There's nothing having friends. People are just too uptight and just want things instantly.

[Ufcrocks1969]

Well considering I don't have any female friends I would be more than happy to have one!

[fortyninethousand322]

The problem with you guys that you're too seriously. These friends can be a gold mine. One of my sister was introduced through a friend. If she wasn't friends with a guy she wouldn't have met my brother in law.

There's nothing having friends. People are just too uptight and just want things instantly.

 

No one said anything was wrong with having female friends. It's very hard to be friends with someone that you secretly (or openly) have romantic feelings for.

[joystickd]

The problem with you guys that you're too seriously. These friends can be a gold mine. One of my sister was introduced through a friend. If she wasn't friends with a guy she wouldn't have met my brother in law.

There's nothing having friends. People are just too uptight and just want things instantly.

No it's not that. I have female friends but they were not anyone i was interested in when meeting them. I think no man here is downing friendship but who wants to settle for something.

[Ufcrocks1969]

You're still not listening she could introduce you to one of her friends eventually. It's called networking!

[Ufcrocks1969]

No one said anything was wrong with having female friends. It's very hard to be friends with someone that you secretly (or openly) have romantic feelings for.

 

How can you have romantic feelings with someone you just met?

[fortyninethousand322]

You're still not listening she could introduce you to one of her friends eventually. It's called networking!

 

Yeah and in the meantime you'll feel some combination and a puking sensation, inability to breathe, and being punched in the gut. Best case scenario.

 

I don't know. I have a high pain tolerance, just not when it comes to that. I just wouldn't be interested in such a situation, no matter how enticing the possibility of a payoff on the back end...

[joystickd]

You're still not listening she could introduce you to one of her friends eventually. It's called networking!

100% of the time if she tells you "Let's just be friends" networking isn't happening. You are not seen as dating potential so she won't fix you up with any of her friends. If you want to talk to her friends you will have to introduce yourself. That is the reality of it.

[fortyninethousand322]

How can you have romantic feelings with someone you just met?

 

Is that what we're talking about?

 

Even so, you can have sexual attraction to someone you just met. And it probably isn't going to feel so good when you're friends with that person and they want you to meet the guy they're dating or tell you about some guy they hooked up with last night.