TheBigQuestion Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 (edited) Moderator note: We've chosen this thread as the start point for consolidated discussion on the general parameters of the 'Friendzone' and it's applicability to interpersonal romantic relationships. Specific member issues, meaning relevant to a particular member and his/her dating experiences, will continue to be addressed in the dating forum. If it's not about you and another particular person and you wish to offer opinion on the friendzone, this is the thread. Let’s Talk About Why the ‘Friend Zone’ is Bull**** | STUFF YOU WILL HATE Enclosed is a lovely, humorous blog post from one of my favorite blogs about why the friend zone is BS and how grown men who get themselves caught in those situations need to pull their heads out of a certain cavernous orifice. I, for one, think it's spot on. Thoughts? Edited July 24, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator 2 Link to post Share on other sites
zengirl Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Basically yes, that covers it. A nice middle ground from the "Never be friends with a lady - that makes you a chump" and the erroneous assumption that you can ever get sex with friendship. I like the description of some loser/jerk putting 'kindness' coins in a lady 'machine' as though it'll eventually lead to sex. That's basically what so-called 'nice guys' are saying they do when they wait around and be a 'good' friend but secretly get angrier and angrier that the woman isn't interested in banging them and thinks of them as a friend. Of course she does! That's the relationship you have! 5 Link to post Share on other sites
joystickd Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 “When a guy agrees to be friends, he’s forced to stifle his attraction while regularly seeing and talking to the woman he’s attracted to. She discusses her love life and has the audacity to ask his advice on it. He performs occasional “manly” household and automotive favors for the women. Essentially, he does everything a boyfriend would do – without the benefits.” ^ That quote basically explains what it is and 100% agree its the guys fault if he is friendzoned. Its so easy to move on and find someone else. Link to post Share on other sites
somedude81 Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 When the choices are, "be her friend and never anything more", or "cut all contact and never spend time with a woman", it's hard to make a choice. The guys who get friendzoned by women, usually go long periods of time without knowing a girl who would spend time with him. So it's either her or nothing. Sure choosing to be alone looks like the high road, but it's not that easy. As much as I hate how things ended up with D and I. Spending time with D in her friendzone, was a hell of a lot more fun then not having anybody around at all. Life is different when there is a woman involved, even if you aren't sleeping with her. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
verhrzn Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 When the choices are, "be her friend and never anything more", or "cut all contact and never spend time with a woman", it's hard to make a choice. The guys who get friendzoned by women, usually go long periods of time without knowing a girl who would spend time with him. So it's either her or nothing. Sure choosing to be alone looks like the high road, but it's not that easy. As much as I hate how things ended up with D and I. Spending time with D in her friendzone, was a hell of a lot more fun then not having anybody around at all. Life is different when there is a woman involved, even if you aren't sleeping with her. Befriend ugly girls that you have no attraction to. Ta-da! 4 Link to post Share on other sites
somedude81 Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Befriend ugly girls that you have no attraction to. Ta-da! Heh, you're not the first person to suggest that. That's not really going to work for me, because I'm not the kind of person who approaches others to make friends. The only reason I've ever invited a woman to do something with me is because I at least wanted to sleep with her, most often I wanted more than just sex. In other words, I've never been the kind of guy who's looking to make friends. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TheBigQuestion Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share Posted May 14, 2012 When the choices are, "be her friend and never anything more", or "cut all contact and never spend time with a woman", it's hard to make a choice. The guys who get friendzoned by women, usually go long periods of time without knowing a girl who would spend time with him. So it's either her or nothing. Sure choosing to be alone looks like the high road, but it's not that easy. As much as I hate how things ended up with D and I. Spending time with D in her friendzone, was a hell of a lot more fun then not having anybody around at all. Life is different when there is a woman involved, even if you aren't sleeping with her. I see that the point of the blog post went over your head. There's nothing wrong with seeking out female companionship and friendship. It's a different story entirely when you get mad at the woman for not reciprocating your feelings, especially when you perpetuate the relationship as a friendship. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
irc333 Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Sometimes I wonder if it's a good idea to cut ALL ties with such a woman, because they could introduce you to their network of friends, which in turn may be single. Not talking about being "fixed up" but you could eventually wind up in her social circle of friends as well. And doing stuff with her, would probably make you MORE attractive to woman ad opposed to sitting at a bar by yourself. I see that the point of the blog post went over your head. There's nothing wrong with seeking out female companionship and friendship. It's a different story entirely when you get mad at the woman for not reciprocating your feelings, especially when you perpetuate the relationship as a friendship. Link to post Share on other sites
zengirl Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I see that the point of the blog post went over your head. There's nothing wrong with seeking out female companionship and friendship. It's a different story entirely when you get mad at the woman for not reciprocating your feelings, especially when you perpetuate the relationship as a friendship. TBQ is exactly right. The blog post very clearly says that men and women can and perhaps even SHOULD be friends. It even says you can continue to stay friends with a woman you're attracted to (I'd say some guys can, some guys can't, and you have to realize and own what YOU can personally do and then make that choice) as long as you actually think of it as an actual friendship and don't allow it to turn into a situation where you're angry at the woman for not dating you, in denial about the fact that she's never going to want to date you, etc, etc. Link to post Share on other sites
ThaWholigan Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I see that the point of the blog post went over your head. There's nothing wrong with seeking out female companionship and friendship. It's a different story entirely when you get mad at the woman for not reciprocating your feelings, especially when you perpetuate the relationship as a friendship. One would have to stop being infatuated with his female friends as a result. The thing is, me wanting to **** my female friend wouldn't hamper my friendship with the girl, nor would I pine for her. There are lots of girls I want to ****, doesn't mean I'm gonna get all pissy if I don't get them, whether they are my friends or not. That's just me. Only once did it nearly become a problem, but never a big deal. (actually, it never became a problem, just a little awkward). Not everybody is going to reciprocate. Luckily, I have a social circle, and I meet enough girls within it to not have to worry too much about girls coming into my life, nor do I have to worry about falling in love with one of them because they happened to notice me. I was seduced by the nice guy stuff when I first heard it, and friend zone and all that ****................about a week later I was like "this is bull****", and never followed any of that mantra again. Link to post Share on other sites
somedude81 Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I see that the point of the blog post went over your head. There's nothing wrong with seeking out female companionship and friendship. It's a different story entirely when you get mad at the woman for not reciprocating your feelings, especially when you perpetuate the relationship as a friendship. I'm not mad at her for not reciprocating my feelings. She had as much choice in whether she fell for me as I did falling for her. Honestly, I wish I didn't fall for as we could have stayed friends. Though if I wasn't interested in her, I probably wouldn't have put in as much effort as I did in trying to make plans. The only thing I'm mad about is how she ended the friendship. Link to post Share on other sites
fishtaco Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Heh, you're not the first person to suggest that. That's not really going to work for me, because I'm not the kind of person who approaches others to make friends. The only reason I've ever invited a woman to do something with me is because I at least wanted to sleep with her, most often I wanted more than just sex. In other words, I've never been the kind of guy who's looking to make friends. That's part of the problem. You see women only as people you want to sleep with. If you don't want to sleep with them, you don't even want to be their friends. The only men that can do that are the ones with the skills to back it up... i.e. they have some x-factor that make women want to throw themselves at those guys. The most common one is being filthy rich and/or being a celebrity. If not, you need to be a natural and women are mysteriously attracted to you, you don't even know why. My guess is you do not fall into those categories. Neither do I. So for people like us, we can't only associate with women when we want to sleep with them. Bottom line, if you are a normal person, like me, then you have make friends with women. By chance, some of these women will end up sleeping with you. But more importantly, you learn how to socialize with women, which is the foundation even if you're approaching a woman for sex only right off the bat. You have to chat her up first before ANYTHING could happen. And women are very sensitive. If you don't know how to properly socialize with them, repeating the steps from a PUA book won't do you any good. Because no matter how good your angle is, and how awesome of a line you have, it's all in the delivery. Not to mention women make good friends as much as men. It won't be a wasted effort even if no sex comes from it. 7 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TheBigQuestion Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share Posted May 14, 2012 Somedude doesn't really see the value in making friends regardless of their sex. That's the bigger issue. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
ThaWholigan Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 The guys who get friendzoned by women, usually go long periods of time without knowing a girl who would spend time with him. So it's either her or nothing. As far as I'm concerned, this is their fault to an extent. Obviously, circumstances vary too, I understand this very well. Some guys were picked on a lot and were ostracized, and grew up with those problems manifesting. That's why therapy and stuff like that is there. But people can only gain from therapy if they actually try and help themselves too instead of thinking everything is impossible all the time. Anyway I digress..... Guys who go long periods of time without knowing even 1 girl who would spend time with them, put themselves in that position. They don't try to expand their world view, they don't have a social circle, they don't try to overcome any of their fears or anxieties, they don't try new things. They become comfortable with their own misery and revel in it. I meet a lot of girls but they don't spend a lot of time with me. Do I care? Not really, no. I have better things to care about, like how I'm going to make money, what skills I want to learn, my fitness and health, my goals etc. The friends I already have too. As well as networking for career purposes. As a result, while I might still be quite **** with girls in terms of my application, I still meet lots of girls, and I don't place as much importance on having a GF, and as a result, I don't get friendzoned. Link to post Share on other sites
ThaWholigan Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 That's part of the problem. You see women only as people you want to sleep with. If you don't want to sleep with them, you don't even want to be their friends. The only men that can do that are the ones with the skills to back it up... i.e. they have some x-factor that make women want to throw themselves at those guys. The most common one is being filthy rich and/or being a celebrity. If not, you need to be a natural and women are mysteriously attracted to you, you don't even know why. My guess is you do not fall into those categories. Neither do I. So for people like us, we can't only associate with women when we want to sleep with them. Bottom line, if you are a normal person, like me, then you have make friends with women. By chance, some of these women will end up sleeping with you. But more importantly, you learn how to socialize with women, which is the foundation even if you're approaching a woman for sex only right off the bat. You have to chat her up first before ANYTHING could happen. And women are very sensitive. If you don't know how to properly socialize with them, repeating the steps from a PUA book won't do you any good. Because no matter how good your angle is, and how awesome of a line you have, it's all in the delivery. Not to mention women make good friends as much as men. It won't be a wasted effort even if no sex comes from it. He could be extraordinary if he tried. I'm an extraordinary person if I say so myself. I don't know anybody remotely like me, so therefore I am not ordinary by default. It doesn't take much to be extraordinary, or simply to augment your already normal disposition. Link to post Share on other sites
grkBoy Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I only choose friendzone IF: 1) I am not emotionally interested in the girl so much that I can't fathom it being "just friends". I'm talking heavy lust. If I just thought she was attractive and cool, but I'm not deeply in LUST for her, then I could be "just friends". 2) I can see she wants to actually be a friend to me. That the LJBF comment isn't just her wishing I would go away and never return, or that I can see she won't be trying to make me into her crying blanket, cuddle-b!tch, or worse...the intellectual half of a RL (while some douchebag gets to be the physical half). Friendzone isn't the end of the world. I just simply tell guys who really wanted to date the girl that they should politely and respectfully decline. They should NEVER become friends on the hope that she'll "come around". The "long time friends became lovers" thing is very very rare...and chick flicks unfortunately perpetuate the idea that it can happen all the time. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
NeverDated Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I meet a lot of girls but they don't spend a lot of time with me. Do I care? Not really, no. I have better things to care about, like how I'm going to make money, what skills I want to learn, my fitness and health, my goals etc. The friends I already have too. As well as networking for career purposes. This. You don't care because you have things to do, with or without them. So you just get back to your business. I read a lot of these threads on "friendzoning" and wonder why people care. A lot of the guys on here seem to be placing the brunt of their self-worth in the external validation of women. If you don't value yourself, no one else will. This gets repeated on here ad nauseum, and it always comes back to the same thing: well I tried to do [whatever self-improvement] and women still stick me in the friendzone. Of course they do. You didn't self-improve because you wanted to improve, you did it to up your tail-chasing game. You still place a low value on yourself, and evidenced by the repeated references to friendzoning, and alpha males and whatever other dating lingo. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ThaWholigan Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 This. You don't care because you have things to do, with or without them. So you just get back to your business. I read a lot of these threads on "friendzoning" and wonder why people care. A lot of the guys on here seem to be placing the brunt of their self-worth in the external validation of women. If you don't value yourself, no one else will. This gets repeated on here ad nauseum, and it always comes back to the same thing: well I tried to do [whatever self-improvement] and women still stick me in the friendzone. Of course they do. You didn't self-improve because you wanted to improve, you did it to up your tail-chasing game. You still place a low value on yourself, and evidenced by the repeated references to friendzoning, and alpha males and whatever other dating lingo. To add to that, I would LOVE to find a GF or date or whatever, especially considering I've never done it. But that doesn't mean I tie my self-worth with my dating. It's a futile endeavor. To reiterate, I have better things to do. Link to post Share on other sites
fishtaco Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Somedude doesn't really see the value in making friends regardless of their sex. That's the bigger issue. Oh wow... I didn't realize he like this... Somedude, making friends with your own gender is the foundation for making friends with the opposite gender. Making friends with the opposite gender is the foundation for being able to generate romantic/intimate responses from them. It doesn't mean the same person. You don't make friends with your buddy, turn him into a woman, then have sex with him/her. It means you take the skill set as a starting point, add to it, then use it on someone else. So my suggestion is to start making friends. If you can't be bothered to do that, then I guarantee, you will not be able to get women to be interested in you romantically. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
threebyfate Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I dislike the way the content is being expressed. It assumes that men don't want to be friends with women unless they're "nice guys" or gay. Fortunately, there are more than enough real men in this world who view women as people, people they can like or dislike, platonically or nonplatonically. Link to post Share on other sites
ThaWholigan Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I dislike the way the content is being expressed. It assumes that men don't want to be friends with women unless they're "nice guys" or gay. Fortunately, there are more than enough real men in this world who view women as people, people they can like or dislike, platonically or nonplatonically. Really? From what I gleaned, it didn't look down on that concept at all . Platonic friendships are great regardless, that isn't lost on a lot of guys. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TheBigQuestion Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share Posted May 14, 2012 I dislike the way the content is being expressed. It assumes that men don't want to be friends with women unless they're "nice guys" or gay. Fortunately, there are more than enough real men in this world who view women as people, people they can like or dislike, platonically or nonplatonically. No, the link I posted makes no such assumption. You don't like the way the content is being expressed? Boohoo. I'm sure there are tons of other articles explaining the same message in a super-serious tone that won't offend your poor, sensitive eyes. However, since it took all the way until page 2 for a female LS poster to ferret out some reason to take offense to the OP, I'm actually pretty impressed. Link to post Share on other sites
zengirl Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Oh wow... I didn't realize he like this... Somedude, making friends with your own gender is the foundation for making friends with the opposite gender. Making friends with the opposite gender is the foundation for being able to generate romantic/intimate responses from them. It doesn't mean the same person. You don't make friends with your buddy, turn him into a woman, then have sex with him/her. It means you take the skill set as a starting point, add to it, then use it on someone else. So my suggestion is to start making friends. If you can't be bothered to do that, then I guarantee, you will not be able to get women to be interested in you romantically. I couldn't agree more. He's been told this before, but I think you said it much better than I've ever said it or seen anyone say it. Maybe he'll actually listen to it put this way! I dislike the way the content is being expressed. It assumes that men don't want to be friends with women unless they're "nice guys" or gay. Fortunately, there are more than enough real men in this world who view women as people, people they can like or dislike, platonically or nonplatonically. We must have been reading completely different articles. I totally saw it allowing for men to have REAL friends with women who they find attractive or not attractive and even encouraging it. The article said you should have some opposite sex friends but encouraged them to be REAL friends, with a reciprocal relationship and no pining on either side. The article even says: Its great having friends of the opposite sex (or same sex, what up gay bros), and actually its a little weird if you don’t. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
dasein Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I would have gotten away with my evil scheme if not for that meddling friendzone and the stupid dog! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
threebyfate Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 You guys were right. I misread this bit as usage of sarcasm, to denigrate cross-gender friendships. Its great having friends of the opposite sex (or same sex, what up gay bros), Link to post Share on other sites
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