Wife had an A, can't sleep or eat!

[Hoping4Better]

It's early days to call a 5 minute hug progress, but it is somewhat positive.

I don't want to sound harsh, but the fact you let your know how much you want to save your marriage is giving her a free pass in not doing the work and being absolutely honest with you.

 

Sometimes you must be willing to lose your spouse in order to truly get them back. Only then can you hope to repair the marriage .

I do get mixed messages from her, but this definitely was better than most. Yes, I did lay out all my cards on the table and gambling, at some point in time - hopely in MC - I will have to DEMAND the work or else.

[Hoping4Better]

"I don't know what I want" is code for "I'm checked out of the marriage but I need to think it through before doing something irrational that I can't undo."

 

She's weighing her options and is fearful of throwing the marriage completely away . . . but based on all that you've posted H4B, your wife strikes me as someone who has emotionally stepped out of the marriage and still may have emotional ties to the OM that she may not think she can overcome at this point.

 

That is what sucks, BK that I might have to let W go in order to get her back. So once W overcomes the ties, maybe we might have a chance? I don't think I can wait around too long though.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Hoping4Better

[anne1707]

Strikes me as sorrow for what she feels H4B. She feels pulled in different

directions emotionally. She feels sorry for you, your kids, and of course,

herself because of the dire emotional dilemma she's placed herself in. My ex did

this as well and it left me utterly confused at times.

 

I suspect this could be what it is - again based on my experience. In that immediate aftermath of dday, when emotions are all over the place, there may be a desperate need to cling on to something that feels safe and stable (at least up until dday anyway).

 

The key for you is if and when that sorrow changes for her to

something different and she begins to feel immense guilt, sorrow, and shame for what she's done to you and the family. If it's sincere, she will commit to undoing the damage and recommit herself to you and the family. At this point, she's not even close to there.

 

Exactly. It was only when I started really coming out of the fog and could fully comprehend what I had done to my H (and not just thinking of myself anymore), that the real work started.

 

How long you project, a year or two?

 

H4B - you would go crazy if you had to wait a year for her to get to this stage. A few months would be bad enough. No, you have be stronger than that. You have to set boundaries that you can live with and that you will impose. Your wife needs to change and put hard work in much sooner if you are going to get through this.

[ISurvived]

Thank you all for advises I seek and needed but I still think W is in the 'fog' so yes W might think she's still in A, feelings in a month? don't know, got to be a real strong one. Forgot to tell all is W wanted MC to begin with but now changed to 'I don't know what I want' answer to most of my questions. Maybe W really doesn't know? Because of this uncertainty, I am the one who is leading at the moment trying to make her see it my way.

 

Just my 2 cents. I think the "fog" is horse puckies. I think the "fog" is what we BS like to call it when our WS is still in the A and not wanting to R.

 

She knows what she wants. She doesn't want to be honest. If she is honest with you, more details will come out and most likely you will find out she has been lying her a** off!!

[standtall]

Me 1oo% commited to saving marriage, her 45-70% at this point.

 

Sorry to say but you can't carry her...she has to be on board 100% or you're gonna get hurt more.

[drifter777]

Just my 2 cents. I think the "fog" is horse puckies. I think the "fog" is what we BS like to call it when our WS is still in the A and not wanting to R.

 

She knows what she wants. She doesn't want to be honest. If she is honest with you, more details will come out and most likely you will find out she has been lying her a** off!!

 

 

I strongly agree with this post and would further say that at this point H4B is probably his wife's back-up plan. She may change her mind once the reality of a divorce is clear, but I'm not sure how you are going to get her to that point while you are in this "fix this at any cost" state of mind.

 

Most BS's are in a serious state of shock after d-day. The betrayal turns their emotional world upside down and they become desperate to make the pain stop. I think it is unwise to make a decision regarding divorce or reconciliation while you are in this state of mind.

 

H4B: Putting emotional and physical distance between you and your WS by separating can allow you to think more clearly as she will not be able to manipulate you with sex or whatever so easily. Also, you also really need to find an IC so you can begin sorting out your emotions. Put your personal recovery first. Your wife's role should be to do whatever she has to in order to repair your marriage and begin to rebuild love and trust. If she is not wildly enthusiastic to repair the damage she has done then there is no reason to even attempt reconciliation. A separation might be something that will break her out of the fantasy she is trying to live in.

[Owl]

OK, here's my suggestions.

 

YOU need to sit down, and seriously give some thought to what YOU need from her in order to consider moving forward with reconciling your marriage with her. Here are some suggestions, but you need to get your own list together. You need to MEAN IT.

 

1. No contact of any kind with OM, ever again. She will send him an email, with you copied, indicating that the affair is over, neither of them is to contact the other EVER again, and that she's now working on her marriage.

 

2. She needs to agree to answer all questions pertaining to the affair. Nothing is off topic or too detailed.

 

3. She needs to disclose all means of how they communicated, and grant you complete and immediate access (WITHOUT DELETING ANYTHING FIRST) to all of these means, to include cell phone, email, facebook, etc...

 

4. She agrees to a marriage counselor that you both can work with. You may well need to try several before you find one that you both are comfortable with.

 

If she refuses or balks...that is an indicator to you that she's not willing to reconcile the marriage. YOU need to have a gameplan in place for how you want to handle that. Immediate seperation and divorce, whatever.

 

You need to be willing on your part to hear what she's got to say about what fixes/changes need to happen in the marriage in order for her to consider reconciliation. If they're reasonable (not something like saying that she gets to remain friends with OM)...then agree and start implementing them.

 

Here's the thing. She CANNOT dictate the terms here. A woman cannot remain in love with a man she can't respect. She can't respect a man she can treat like dirt and know he'll still love her and worship her.

 

Set firm boundaries, have serious, clearly defined consquences in place for those boundaries, and make it very clear to her that while you love her and want to save your marriage...this isn't a hostage negotiation.

 

Pick up a copy of "Surviving an Affair". Try reading "His Needs/Her Needs" as well.

 

That should be a good start for you to begin moving in the right direction.

[Owl]

Just my 2 cents. I think the "fog" is horse puckies. I think the "fog" is what we BS like to call it when our WS is still in the A and not wanting to R.

 

She knows what she wants. She doesn't want to be honest. If she is honest with you, more details will come out and most likely you will find out she has been lying her a** off!!

 

The fog is when the WS is confused and doesn't know what they want, or they want something that is completely unrealistic...like resuming the affair AND keeping their marriage.

 

They completely lose the ability for rational thinking during that time.

 

We can agree to disagree here...but I've seen it pretty clearly first hand how it can take an otherwise rational, intelligent person and cause them to spout some of the most juvenile logic you've ever seen.

[anne1707]

The fog is when the WS is confused and doesn't know what they want, or they want something that is completely unrealistic...like resuming the affair AND keeping their marriage.

 

They completely lose the ability for rational thinking during that time.

 

We can agree to disagree here...but I've seen it pretty clearly first hand how it can take an otherwise rational, intelligent person and cause them to spout some of the most juvenile logic you've ever seen.

 

Absolutely 100% totally agree with this

[Hoping4Better]

OK, here's my suggestions.

 

YOU need to sit down, and seriously give some thought to what YOU need from her in order to consider moving forward with reconciling your marriage with her. Here are some suggestions, but you need to get your own list together. You need to MEAN IT.

 

1. No contact of any kind with OM, ever again. She will send him an email, with you copied, indicating that the affair is over, neither of them is to contact the other EVER again, and that she's now working on her marriage.

 

2. She needs to agree to answer all questions pertaining to the affair. Nothing is off topic or too detailed.

 

3. She needs to disclose all means of how they communicated, and grant you complete and immediate access (WITHOUT DELETING ANYTHING FIRST) to all of these means, to include cell phone, email, facebook, etc...

 

4. She agrees to a marriage counselor that you both can work with. You may well need to try several before you find one that you both are comfortable with.

 

If she refuses or balks...that is an indicator to you that she's not willing to reconcile the marriage. YOU need to have a gameplan in place for how you want to handle that. Immediate seperation and divorce, whatever.

 

You need to be willing on your part to hear what she's got to say about what fixes/changes need to happen in the marriage in order for her to consider reconciliation. If they're reasonable (not something like saying that she gets to remain friends with OM)...then agree and start implementing them.

 

Here's the thing. She CANNOT dictate the terms here. A woman cannot remain in love with a man she can't respect. She can't respect a man she can treat like dirt and know he'll still love her and worship her.

 

Set firm boundaries, have serious, clearly defined consquences in place for those boundaries, and make it very clear to her that while you love her and want to save your marriage...this isn't a hostage negotiation.

 

Pick up a copy of "Surviving an Affair". Try reading "His Needs/Her Needs" as well.

 

That should be a good start for you to begin moving in the right direction.

Just kinda things you mentioned out there, she doesn't know if me moving out is gonna solve anything then she started to throwing up...I don't think it's related, I do need to sit down and have talk with her.

[Hoping4Better]

Absolutely 100% totally agree with this

Anne, if you don't mind me asking, when you were confronted by H about the details, what part of it would you say you were mostly not willing to come clean on? She says too much respect for me to give any details every time I bring it up. Is it physical part or emotional part?

[Hoping4Better]

H4B: Putting emotional and physical distance between you and your WS by separating can allow you to think more clearly as she will not be able to manipulate you with sex or whatever so easily.

We have agreed to sleep in same bed trying to get a little intimacy back, but we haven't gotten that far yet.

[anne1707]

Anne, if you don't mind me asking, when you were confronted by H about the details, what part of it would you say you were mostly not willing to come clean on? She says too much respect for me to give any details every time I bring it up. Is it physical part or emotional part?

 

My H didn't ask for details but that was the way he chose to deal with the situation. That was what was right for him - it may or may not be right for you. I suspect immediately after dday, if he had asked, I would have tried to avoid answering fully. However later on - when the fog started to clear - I would have been open (even if I hated doing it from shame and disgust at myself).

 

You are getting a lot of advice here. Some of it will work for you, some of it won't. You need to decide what you want and need to do, which may not be what others tell you to do.

 

If you only listed to one poster, make it Owl - if it was not for him, I may not be here now with my husband. He speaks from the experience of being a BS and also understands the desire to reconcile and how much work that takes.

[Hoping4Better]

The key for you is if and when that sorrow changes for her to something different and she begins to feel immense guilt, sorrow, and shame for what she's done to you and the family. If it's sincere, she will commit to undoing the damage and recommit herself to you and the family. At this point, she's not even close to there.

BK, I am hoping you had a success in reconciliation? If so, when did she exactly come around, would you say?

[Frootloop]

This is my first post, but this hit so close to home, I had to say something.

 

I've been on both sides of the cheating coin. Was cheated on in first marriage and cheated in second. So I understand your need or details, but I also understand her need to not give them to you.

 

When my dday hit, I was asked questions about EVERY aspect of what happened. This was months ago, so now I am speaking to you outside of any kind of "fog." I did not then, nor will I now, divulge certain aspects of my A to my BS. I am willing to share details about when, where, why etc but certainly not very detailed physical type answers. I feel this way because I feel it would only further the lack of self esteem that I caused my H through this ordeal. Plus, any answers I gave only led to more obsessing and not closure or healing. And I'm telling you, as I have been the BS before, those kinds of details only serve to fuel my own anger and resentment.

[Hoping4Better]

I am willing to share details about when, where, why etc but certainly not very detailed physical type answers...Plus, any answers I gave only led to more obsessing and not closure or healing. And I'm telling you, as I have been the BS before, those kinds of details only serve to fuel my own anger and resentment.

I guess the main reason I want the full detail is that so I finally don't have to torture myself about a million diff. positions they've tried and the intimacy level, etc. From what I've read you totally denied him of that specific part and hence the obsession, no closure at all to the matter.

[Hoping4Better]

OK, here's my suggestions.

 

YOU need to sit down, and seriously give some thought to what YOU need from her in order to consider moving forward with reconciling your marriage with her. Here are some suggestions, but you need to get your own list together. You need to MEAN IT.

 

1. No contact of any kind with OM, ever again. She will send him an email, with you copied, indicating that the affair is over, neither of them is to contact the other EVER again, and that she's now working on her marriage.

 

2. She needs to agree to answer all questions pertaining to the affair. Nothing is off topic or too detailed.

 

3. She needs to disclose all means of how they communicated, and grant you complete and immediate access (WITHOUT DELETING ANYTHING FIRST) to all of these means, to include cell phone, email, facebook, etc...

 

4. She agrees to a marriage counselor that you both can work with. You may well need to try several before you find one that you both are comfortable with.

 

If she refuses or balks...that is an indicator to you that she's not willing to reconcile the marriage. YOU need to have a gameplan in place for how you want to handle that. Immediate seperation and divorce, whatever.

 

You need to be willing on your part to hear what she's got to say about what fixes/changes need to happen in the marriage in order for her to consider reconciliation. If they're reasonable (not something like saying that she gets to remain friends with OM)...then agree and start implementing them.

 

Here's the thing. She CANNOT dictate the terms here. A woman cannot remain in love with a man she can't respect. She can't respect a man she can treat like dirt and know he'll still love her and worship her.

 

Set firm boundaries, have serious, clearly defined consquences in place for those boundaries, and make it very clear to her that while you love her and want to save your marriage...this isn't a hostage negotiation.

 

Pick up a copy of "Surviving an Affair". Try reading "His Needs/Her Needs" as well.

 

That should be a good start for you to begin moving in the right direction.

Light at the end of the tunnel? We briefly talked about my revised 'list' earlier then I could sense the shift in her attitude to agreeable to what I had to say, and just now I served the paper with the plan on it. Fingers crossed.

[SomedayDig]

I guess the main reason I want the full detail is that so I finally don't have to torture myself about a million diff. positions they've tried and the intimacy level, etc. From what I've read you totally denied him of that specific part and hence the obsession, no closure at all to the matter.

 

BINGO!!!

 

Only when I asked her about the sexual details was I able to de-mystify the crap in my head. The spectre looming there putting those "terrific" mind movies on the reel kept showing me all kinds of crazy stuff. It was only when I asked her specifics was I allowed to rest again. Doesn't mean I don't think about it now and again, but I can honestly tell you that I don't obsess about it anymore. The veil has been removed.

[Owl]

One thing to bear in mind...this is NOT a sprint to the finish. Your wife isn't going to be "over this" tomorrow, nor next week, nor next month.

 

It typically takes 2-5 years to recover from infidelity...if both parties do their part.

 

Be ready for a marathon...long duration, hard work involved.

[drifter777]

We have agreed to sleep in same bed trying to get a little intimacy back, but we haven't gotten that far yet.

 

Having sex with her right now in an attempt to restore intimacy is a pretty typical step in the early days after d-day. Go to Google and type in "hysterical bonding infidelity" and do some reading so you get an idea of what may be happening. Bottom line is that it is a defense mechanism couples turn to in an attempt to avoid facing the truth of the affair.

 

I think sleeping with her right now is a bad idea. It is inevitable she will try to manipulate you to "put the past behind you" and such because she does not want to face her betrayal head on and work to rebuild your marriage. She may even gaslight you by telling you that you are just as guilty and that what she did is justifiable based on her slanted view of where your relationship was at the time. I will continue to advise you to but some physical and emotional distance between you so you can make your decisions with a clear head. The pressure a WS will put on the BS to not talk about the affair and focus on the future can be enormous. Given the fragile emotional state you are in could lead to decisions that you bitterly regret. You need time and counseling to sort all this out and make the decisions that you will have to live with for the rest of your life.

[Hoping4Better]

Having sex with her right now in an attempt to restore intimacy is a pretty typical step in the early days after d-day. Go to Google and type in "hysterical bonding infidelity" and do some reading so you get an idea of what may be happening. Bottom line is that it is a defense mechanism couples turn to in an attempt to avoid facing the truth of the affair.

 

I think sleeping with her right now is a bad idea. It is inevitable she will try to manipulate you to "put the past behind you" and such because she does not want to face her betrayal head on and work to rebuild your marriage. She may even gaslight you by telling you that you are just as guilty and that what she did is justifiable based on her slanted view of where your relationship was at the time. I will continue to advise you to but some physical and emotional distance between you so you can make your decisions with a clear head. The pressure a WS will put on the BS to not talk about the affair and focus on the future can be enormous. Given the fragile emotional state you are in could lead to decisions that you bitterly regret. You need time and counseling to sort all this out and make the decisions that you will have to live with for the rest of your life.

Thanks for the ref. to the insightful articles. I am trying to reconcile with her so I was going to follow my 'heart', but I am re-thinking that maybe - at the least - physical part can wait until detail part of my demands has been met. I think she would've already used that tactic by now if she wanted to manipulate me into all of the mentioned above.

[Hoping4Better]

One thing to bear in mind...this is NOT a sprint to the finish. Your wife isn't going to be "over this" tomorrow, nor next week, nor next month.

 

It typically takes 2-5 years to recover from infidelity...if both parties do their part.

 

Be ready for a marathon...long duration, hard work involved.

Thanks Owl, I am NO fool to think that this is going to end overnight, far from it. I am also learning that A isn't my fault at all and that what I can do is to give it all I've got to reconcile so if it doesn't work I can rest easy knowing I've tried.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Hoping4Better

[The Blue Knight]

I do feel that as well...I guess one spouse is more willing than the other...god, I really want this to end sometimes and it's only been 3 days!

Your emotions are going to be up and down consistently for many days to come H4B. I wish I could say they expire after 72 hours of horrific emotional pain but that's not the case. Take a deep breath and prepare for a lengthy ordeal. This consumed me for a few weeks when I went through it.

 

Eat whenever you feel that you can because you're going to drop weight over the coming weeks.

[The Blue Knight]

BK, I think you are right on. That is what I am hearing as well. I just don't understand that in a month time what emotional ties so strong that she can function? I have to think sex has a lot to do with it as well.

 

It's amazing isn't it? I recall thinking the same thing when I went through this. How can you compare a couple of weeks with some guy you scarcely know to a marriage with someone you've known intimately for nine years? It doesn't make sense.

 

Consider the affair the equivalent of opium. Once they get a taste, trying to undo the addiction is very, very difficult. Sometimes it's the dose of reality that snaps them out of this fog . . . meaning, they suffer the consequences of tough love if that's where you need to take this.

 

The trouble with those entering into affairs is that the WS is comparing a non-reality (affair) to a reality (marriage) and you can't logically or rationally compare them side-by-side. They are two completely different existences.

[The Blue Knight]

How long you project, a year or two?

 

H4B, sorry for the late delays to your list of questions . . . work the past couple days kept me away from this forum.

 

There's no way to answer your question, although I'm sure you're dying to have some idea of how long you have to endure this so that you can foresee some type of closure on the horizon.

 

My experience, both personally and professionally is that these things don't take a year or two unless you have a spouse who plays that revolving husband / lover game.

 

Most of the time, someone like you will work your tail off to "fix the marriage" for 60 to 90 days. If she's coming around, and you're seeing results, you'll continue to work hard to get her back.

 

At some point, you're going to expect her to pull a share of the emotional load and show her own desire for the marriage to work. This will also be a point where you'll feel a certain degree of resentment for what she's put you through. That's natural.

 

If she's on-board with really trying to make the marriage work at some point, all those things you deserve from her as someone who cheated on you such as openness, transparency, absolute truth, she should be willing to share with you albeit difficult.

 

Contrastingly, if she's continuing to emotionally detach from you, then by that third month, you may have all that you can handle and at some point, you'll begin to feel emotionally numb and you may be resolved at that point to just see it end rather than endure the on again / off again pain.

 

But these are just "norms" I've noted and observed H4B. You may have more emotional endurance and just sheer willpower and ability to put up with additional "wayward spouse nonsense." Time will tell.