Still hanging on...

[Surfer203]

Steadfast... Wow, thanks for that post. It makes sense to me finally. I will respond later, on my mobile right now.

[marqueemoon4]

No one on this forum illustrates the plain truth like Steadfast. Brilliant.

[Surfer203]

Steadfast, again.. that was really well articulated. I did all I could, time for me to be happy. I just need to get her out of my life and then I can finally move on. I am certainly not going to be roommates with her until the divorce is through. I may just make it really uncomfortable for a while, play my drums at late hours when she is trying to sleep, leave crap in the toilet, etc. Kidding.. haha

 

I hope one day I am in your position, I can't wait for that actually. I can't wait to find a woman who wakes up every morning and excited to be with me.

 

I am going to try and keep it together and be respectful - I want to say really mean things but it will only make myself feel worse in the long run and make her react more negatively.

 

Things always come full circle... last time she left me she ended up with a bipolar alcoholic with rage issues, this time around who knows what will be her dose of Karma.

 

I don't wish ill upon her, I still love her and am just really saddened that this did not work out. I wouldn't mind if the world some how told her "YOU MADE A MISTAKE, IDIOT".

[Steadfast]

I did all I could, time for me to be happy. I just need to get her out of my life and then I can finally move on. I am certainly not going to be roommates with her until the divorce is through.

 

In my opinion, that is unhealthy. It slows down healing and will basically bring out the worst in you. Honestly, it's hard enough to heal and move on without her actions going on under your nose. I did that for six-weeks after D-Day and it was the longest month and a half of my life. Truly dreadful. It is best to be apart, but be advised that separation anxiety will make things worse before they get better. You're programed to love and protect and these things just don't disappear. It is a process, but it must happen.

 

Depending on the person, true happiness may be elusive for a time. When I was advised on the depths of grieving, I understood what I was feeling better. Your emotions will fluctuate -roller coaster style- but slowly inch up towards something resembling normalcy. Friends and family help greatly.

 

Things always come full circle... last time she left me she ended up with a bipolar alcoholic with rage issues, this time around who knows what will be her dose of Karma.

Most certainly, but will you be able to adapt if you can't see it? What if she meets someone who appears to be a huge upgrade, or enjoys some other type of success? Some people can't handle their ex's (supposed) happiness in relationships or other areas of life. They want them to suffer, and want to be there when it happens. Know this: the greatest damage done to the betrayer happens inside; in their soul. Not even a sympathizer or someone sexually attracted will ever fully trust her in heart to heart matters. Bottom line, it's best to just leave it alone and let her deal with what she's done. I have to constantly remind myself that I am enough work to keep me busy.

 

I can't wait for that actually. I can't wait to find a woman who wakes up every morning and excited to be with me.

Everyone adapts/adjusts differently. Instead of focusing on romance, why not approach all of your relationships passionately? There is much to learn, and someday for you, much to share. For now, strive to remove the things from your life that cause indecision, stress or unhappiness. Cut and heal.

[Surfer203]

Steadfast: Yeah.. she needs to go in order for me to heal. You know, part of me WANTS to see her suffer in the future but the other side of me just wants to forget about her. I am not a mean person, I just feel violated and used... I don't think she should get off that easy but I don't have the energy in me to fight her anymore. Going to take some time I know.

 

___

 

As for updates.. she worked both Sat and Sun waitressing (her new part time job) - she came home around 11 last night. This morning she sat down on my bed and was rubbing my back and stuff. Exactly what I DON'T need. Just leave me alone. Last time she left me she didn't give a crap how I was feeling, this time she tries to comfort me. A big NO THANKS. Honestly, it just made me feel worse. I ended up getting to work an hour and a half late because I was bummed out just laying in bed thinking. Tonight we are probably going to have a serious talk. I meet with my therapist right after work, so maybe he can give me some further guidance on how to handle it.

[Surfer203]

It's hard to pretend that I don't love/care for this woman. I hate the position that I am in AGAIN. I am more angry than sad I think. I hate the fact that she is a two faced liar who never learned how to express her feelings or communicate her needs. Her therapist has certainly not given her the tools/skills to do so. I am so pissed off that I put in so much effort, put myself out there again only to get kicked to the curb.

 

[2sunny]

It's hard to pretend that I don't love/care for this woman. I hate the position that I am in AGAIN. I am more angry than sad I think. I hate the fact that she is a two faced liar who never learned how to express her feelings or communicate her needs. Her therapist has certainly not given her the tools/skills to do so. I am so pissed off that I put in so much effort, put myself out there again only to get kicked to the curb.

 

 

surfer - at this point this is about YOU!

 

ask yourself - why are you willing to settle for any woman - much less THIS woman - who shows YOU so little love and respect? why would YOU settle for that?

 

YOU are in counseling - why are YOU not learning from what has transpired... and growing past this negative influence you call your wife?

 

when you let go of the ILLUSION of what she was - you may be capable of healing...

[Surfer203]

2sunny: You are right, why haven't I learned the tools to move past this. Why don't I have enough respect for myself to seek better?

 

I guess I kind of feel so attached to her, we have been together a total of 10 years. She is all I know in terms of women in my adult life. An illusion of a person I thought was real.. probably. I need to learn how to let go of that.

 

Other than her flaws I genuinely think she is an amazing person. She was everything I wanted and I thought she would have made a great mother to my children. I am seeing things more clearly now, she does not have her head together obviously and is not to be trusted. Her word has proven to mean next to nothing.

 

On another note:

 

While she is still living at our home, can I impose rules? Curfew, noise, alcohol related rules?

[Owl]

Surfer...what did you say to her when she came in and started rubbing your shoulders? Did you tell her to stop, that her actions weren't welcome? Did you lay there passively, waiting for her to go away? What MESSAGE did she get from you as a result of her actions? How loud and clear was that message?

 

Have you discussed with her the concept of one or the other of you moving out...immediately? Made it clear that it HAS TO HAPPEN, RIGHT NOW?

 

You're discussing "roomate rules"...but frankly, that's NOT going to do anything to help your situation.

 

You need her REMOVED from your presence if she's no longer "your wife". Anything less will just result in you suffering more, not less.

 

Make it clear...you're divorcing, and in order to reach that goal, one or the other of you needs to be removed so that the true seperation can begin. Most states require an actual, physical seperation for some specified period of time before divorce can be granted.

 

Time to get that started NOW, rather than later.

[robf1971]

Pack her bags surfer!!

[gladiator]

Surfer: You sound very much like me.I have been weak again and not put firm boundaries down or had consequences for her.Please take the advice of owl,2sunny,steadfast and act on it.

 

Be glad their are no kids involved and truly move on ;-]

[Surfer203]

Owl: Honestly, I was so exhausted that I just laid there. I covered my head with the blanket a bit and rolled my face into the pillow. She is just trying to cover up her own guilt by comforting me, right? Either that or she is really twisted. After she was done, she walked away and I made a comment about how she needs a new therapist that can actually help her. She started crying and left the room. I don't know why I even bothered saying anything I was still half asleep.

 

She also sent me a message when she got to work to let me know she arrived safely - which she normally does.

 

We haven't talked since Friday morning really, so - maybe tonight (if she is home) we will have the conversation. Clearly she needs to leave if she wants out of the marriage.

 

In a way I still feel like I am receiving mixed signals. In or out, you had your choice. Get on with it.

[Owl]

OK...so you know what you SHOULD have done was to drawn a clear boundary there. You SHOULD have made it clear that her actions were unwelcome...unless they were, in which case you should have made THAT clear instead.

 

Stop avoiding conflict...that's what got you here, my friend.

 

You're getting mixed signals because she's not fully committed to your path. She's hoping that by giving you "mixed signals" she'll get the results SHE wants instead...which is returning to the status quo, with nothing changed.

 

What YOU need to be doing is making it clear that "mixed signals" are unacceptable.

 

As you said...either in, or out.

 

By not confronting when she crosses those lines...you're sending HER mixed signals right back, just additionally muddying the waters.

 

Be firm, clear, constant...in words and in actions. That will send the message you want to send. Just make sure you're sending the message you want to send.

[Surfer203]

Owl: The message I wanted to send doesn't matter anymore. I have no excuse for not being upfront and telling her not to do that. I kind of let her because I want her to feel bad, I want her to think I am more sad than I really am. Not sure why.

 

What status quo would she want to return to? Just living in a loveless marriage and having her needs met by me?

 

I thought she wanted to escape the marriage, I am confused.

[2sunny]

2sunny: You are right, why haven't I learned the tools to move past this. Why don't I have enough respect for myself to seek better?

I guess I kind of feel so attached to her, we have been together a total of 10 years. She is all I know in terms of women in my adult life. An illusion of a person I thought was real.. probably. I need to learn how to let go of that.

 

Other than her flaws I genuinely think she is an amazing person. She was everything I wanted and I thought she would have made a great mother to my children. I am seeing things more clearly now, she does not have her head together obviously and is not to be trusted. Her word has proven to mean next to nothing.

 

On another note:

 

While she is still living at our home, can I impose rules? Curfew, noise, alcohol related rules?

 

 

i get it - i get how you feel... i was married 20 years - together 23... i had to learn what it was like to live without the other half of me. i had to find myself - my HEALTHY self - stand on MY OWN two feet and learn what happy was to me! i had to let go of my past - and move FORWARD!

 

no! you can't MAKE HER do or not do anything! you already have evidence of that! stop it! move out! let go of the negativity! stop asking "why"? START asking YOURSELF "HOW can i never make it look like it used to by MY ACTIONS!"

 

can YOU do THAT?

what YOU answer will change everything! start changing EVERYTHING - including YOU!

Edited October 24, 2011 by 2sunny

[Surfer203]

2sunny: I had been changing myself through the course of the reconciliation.. changes that need to keep happening. I grew a lot, started reaching out/hanging out with my old friends again. Started hiking and mountain biking and trying to get out there more. I know there is more that I can do to move on and I will continue trying to do so.

[Owl]

Owl: The message I wanted to send doesn't matter anymore. I have no excuse for not being upfront and telling her not to do that. I kind of let her because I want her to feel bad, I want her to think I am more sad than I really am. Not sure why.

 

What status quo would she want to return to? Just living in a loveless marriage and having her needs met by me?

 

I thought she wanted to escape the marriage, I am confused.

 

She wants to live like a single woman (girl) while you provide all of the financial (and occasional emotional) security that she's accustomed to.

 

She doesn't want to lose that security...but she also doesn't want to put forth the effort needed to have a completely emotionally satisfying marriage for both of you. She wants her fun (that doesn't include you), along with the security of having you take care of her financially and emotionally as long as it's on HER terms, not yours.

 

"Doesn't matter anymore" isn't a boundary.

 

"Stop" is a boundary. "Keep going" is a different one.

 

"Doesn't matter" isn't a boundary...it's passive acceptance, and confusing to interperet.

[Surfer203]

Owl: You are right, she wants to live like a teenager however, she is not willing to move out. She wants the security and other positive things that I bring her life with out having to accept some responsibility for her own action and path. I am being used. If she was so desperate to get out of the marriage wouldn't she just leave again or be mean to me?

[2sunny]

Owl: You are right, she wants to live like a teenager however, she is not willing to move out. She wants the security and other positive things that I bring her life with out having to accept some responsibility for her own action and path. I am being used. If she was so desperate to get out of the marriage wouldn't she just leave again or be mean to me?

 

 

not as long as you accept her unacceptable behavior as normal...

 

not as long as you allow her to dump her negativity around/on you - and ALLOW it...

 

not as long as you don't require her to get out! or GET OUT YOURSELF!

 

she knows you are weak enough to ALLOW it...

 

HOW are YOU going to change it all - cuz you know she isn't going to...

[Owl]

Owl: You are right, she wants to live like a teenager however, she is not willing to move out. She wants the security and other positive things that I bring her life with out having to accept some responsibility for her own action and path. I am being used. If she was so desperate to get out of the marriage wouldn't she just leave again or be mean to me?

 

Right.

 

So YOUR job at this point is to clearly decide what you REQUIRE out of this situation.

 

What are you going to DO about it?

 

Set those boundaries...make them crystal clear and rock solid. Communicate those boundaries very clearly, IN WORDS AND IN ACTIONS.

 

If you're going to divorce...get that LEGAL seperation started, paperwork filed, and a lawyer fighting for you.

 

If you're going to try to reconcile...then start moving that route.

 

I don't care.

 

I'm just trying to get you to realize that you need to pick a goal, communicate it...and then actively and constantly work to implement it. Doing nothing, passively hoping for change...will accomplish nothing.

[Surfer203]

2sunny: Well, I plan on telling her that I expect her to leave as soon as possible because it is not healthy for my healing to have her around. That's all. I guess I have shown her that I am weak the past year or so. I regret that, never too late to stand up for myself though. Last week I stood up for myself to her and a few days later she wants to divorce.

 

However, the last time I asserted myself by using NC (when she was gone to live with OM) within 2 weeks she was begging to come back. It was hard to do but it got my point across.

 

Owl: I can't believe you would even say the word reconcile in this situation. I know you don't want me to do that but to even suggest it as a possibility...? I know this time around it can't be done, it's over. At the moment you are right, I am doing nothing - I am just ignoring her as best as I can. It's time for some action.

[2sunny]

Doing nothing, passively hoping for change...will accomplish nothing.

 

oh ya it does accomplish something...

 

it allows his W to use him for what she WANTS - but offering him nothing that he wants/expects... and allows HIM to feel needed - in an unhealthy negative way... and allows him to feel sorry for himself - and throw himself a huge pity party = poor me - look at what she keeps doing to me...

 

YOU ARE ALLOWING IT - YOU have no one to blame but yourself - for the way YOU are PARTICIPATING! you participate by ALLOWING her behavior to affect you in a negative way. YOU hand her THAT power over YOU everytime you have contact with her.

 

YOU could have said STOP IT - DON'T TOUCH ME - when SHE wanted to "massage you"! you allow her to manipulate you - and you think that's loving behavior? you are selling your soul to the devil every time she wants to touch you at this point - because she doesn't want to touch you - she wants to get something from you - and YOU allow it!

 

stop it!

[robf1971]

2sunny: Well, I plan on telling her that I expect her to leave as soon as possible because it is not healthy for my healing to have her around. That's all. I guess I have shown her that I am weak the past year or so.

.

 

"Wife, I want you to be free so I've packed your stuff in boxes for you and put them in the garage. I'll give you a week to find a place and will even give you a hand moving out"

 

 

That Surfer is standing up for yourself.

[Surfer203]

2sunny: You are getting me fired up. Am I so ignorant to believe that any of her positivity towards me in this time is genuine? I want to believe there is still some good in her but as you guys are pointing out, it's all manipulation.

 

Rob: I will make that offer when we speak. If there is a way I could get out of the mortgage and she stay in the house that would be fine. I certainly WILL NOT pay half the mortgage and move out on my own. If she doesn't want to move out so badly she will either take care of the bills or leave. Simple as that.

[2sunny]

2sunny: You are getting me fired up. Am I so ignorant to believe that any of her positivity towards me in this time is genuine? I want to believe there is still some good in her but as you guys are pointing out, it's all manipulation.

 

Rob: I will make that offer when we speak. If there is a way I could get out of the mortgage and she stay in the house that would be fine. I certainly WILL NOT pay half the mortgage and move out on my own. If she doesn't want to move out so badly she will either take care of the bills or leave. Simple as that.

 

a man who takes charge meets with a real estate agent TODAY and lists the house for sale - so HE can be free of any ties to her... it's only a house... let go of any ties...