Author Surfer203 Posted October 14, 2011 Author Share Posted October 14, 2011 What's frustrating is she thinks she is putting in effort. I have specifics that I am looking for though. I guess I need to speak up and make it known that I expect these things to happen otherwise it's done. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 How can she know what you expect if you don't make it perfectly clear... And follow through with consequences when change in her behavior doesn't happen? How can the M change if you don't make those changes you want? Link to post Share on other sites
Steadfast Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 some say communicate - that only goes SO far - especially when one person is telling you everything you want to hear instead of how they feel or how they INTEND to participate - then on the backside DOING whatever they wish, knowing that their actions don't match their words and their actions are harmful. IF she isn't DOING what you expect of her in this M - then you need to state what ACTION you will take. Well said. I'll take it one step farther and say conversation is highly overrated...and practically useless where a cheater is involved. The less said, the better. She should be doing the right things because she wants to. One doesn't need a masters degree to figure out what that is. Good communication is for loving, happy couples who need to reconnect on a regular basis to see how their spouse is doing. You need a raise this marriage up a few (hundred) notches before communicating is useful. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Surfer203 Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 This what I did yesterday.. we had a long talk. I explained what I expected and demanded really. Let's see how things go. I think we may be on the same page finally. It has taken some work but I feel I am getting more respect now and she knows what she needs to do. I really want for this to work out but if it does not, I am fine with it. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 This what I did yesterday.. we had a long talk. I explained what I expected and demanded really. Let's see how things go. I think we may be on the same page finally. It has taken some work but I feel I am getting more respect now and she knows what she needs to do. I really want for this to work out but if it does not, I am fine with it. those are good WORDS - what action goes along with the words you used? did you mention what action you would definitely be taking if/when she didn't perform to your expectations? did she agree to what boundary you laid out for the M to change? what NEW agreements did you to make together? what actions did she agree to when you two talked. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Surfer203 Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 Well, I did it. Had a conversation last night about what needs to change and discussed everything top to bottom. We are now on the same page. This resulted in her crying the whole time basically. Let's see what happens now. Either she gets wise and starts putting major effort in or we are done. Stressful.... but good to have gotten that all out there finally. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 you are using words - that tell her some things... have you stated what consequence will DEFINITELY happen if she doesn't change her behavior? have you stated what time line you decided on? in the past - your words mean nothing to her... what action are you planning to take if/when things don't go the way YOU expect in order for YOU to get to a happy place? this is YOUR boundary... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Surfer203 Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 Yeah.. I told her that these changes need to happen immediately. As in, marriage counseling, doing more activities/outings together, communicating more, etc. The consequences are known as well. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Yeah.. I told her that these changes need to happen immediately. As in, marriage counseling, doing more activities/outings together, communicating more, etc. The consequences are known as well. so what are those consequences you specifically laid out for her? those are some very loose boundaries by the way - she has some fun with you and chats a bit and goes to counseling - doesn't really appear that she INVESTS much in the needed changes...just looks like you are asking for a bit of talk and playtime with her. you may need to get more clear/specific. the problem may well be - that you don't make yourself PERFECTLY clear and specific! you also don't state solid change! even IF she DOES what you outline - have you considered that she could potentially still be partying every day with friends...and males - but still falling within this lose boundary you have described? it's not enough... but you may get what you asked for... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Surfer203 Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 Consequences are the relationship is over. This time around, I am playing by the rule.. fool my once, shame on you.. fool me twice shame on me. I will not be fooled twice, I am not going to be as friendly or supportive of her if things go down the drain. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 even IF she DOES what you outline - have you considered that she could potentially still be partying every day with friends...and males - but still falling within this lose boundary you have described? have you considered this? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Surfer203 Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 I have considered it. The answer is, yes potentially. However, I will allow her to go out with friends once a week/weekend. That is fine with me as long as she comes home at a decent hour. A lot of the people she will socialize with are my friends/crowd. They would inform me of anything bad going on with out a doubt. I believe in not totally confining her to our marriage, that's what made her leave last time. If we both have room to breath and do our own thing a little bit I think it helps us both be happier. Most importantly though is our own alone time together clearly and I want more of that! Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 here's the problem - it doesn't look like you have a firm boundary - it's very loosely described to her... and it appears that your energy is spent on "forcing her" to participate on a level that works for you... which creates negative energy. get a boundary that works - if/when she doesn't "happily participate" end it - IF she shows that your boundary isn't working for her agenda. when you obtain a firm boundary - she will either participate on your happy level - or she won't. either way you win - because then you will understand IF she intends to be happy with you or fight a solid boundary... IF she fights it, that means that she doesn't intend to DO this thing you call marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Surfer203 Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 Well, it's over. She ended it last night. I am at work now, I don't know why. I should be with my parents probably. I think I may leave early, see my therapist and then go over to my parents and spend the night there. My wife intends to keep living at home until she can move out (this might take a long time) - I don't want this, I can't force her to leave however. We talked about this. What's amazing is AGAIN she jumps to "divorce" as opposed to a separation. The problems were, I was telling her when to come home, how often to go out, etc. She felt like she had no freedom and I was parenting her. Also, after she had a OBGYN biopsy she to this day can't have sex or pleasure herself, it makes her go into a crying fit. So, we had not been having sex for months. How does she expect us to make it when we are not connecting on an intimate level?! That kills the spark, there is no chance with out it. Anyway, I am not sure what's going on, this may turn into a separation or in-house separation (which would be awful). I am really upset but not quite as devastated as the last time this happened. Any advice on getting through this tough time that you guys haven't told me 1,000 times before? This hurts a lot - I know it could have worked out if she COMMUNICATED with me, same s*** as last time, she just stopped communicating instead of expressing herself and giving us an opportunity to work on the problems! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Surfer203 Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 She REGRETS leaving ME last time, but not leaving. She knows very well that she may REGRET leaving me again this time around. Why is this woman so stupid?! Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Stop worrying about her and her perspective...she (and her perspective on things) is now irrelevent. She wants a D? OK...give her one...fast, furious, and done to benefit YOU the most out of the whole situation. What have you learned about D proceedings in your state? What steps do you have to take, how long do you have to wait, etc...? Have you engaged a lawyer yet? If not, do so now...TODAY! Why should she stay at home, if she's the one who wants out? Tell her to go live with her parents/siblings/next door neighbor. Get the seperation going ASAP, to get her divorced from you as soon as possible. Don't fight her anymore...give her what she's asking for, as quickly as humanely possible...just make sure that you get the best possible deal out of it as well. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Surfer203 Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 Owl: It's hard to just walk away for me, clearly I love this woman deeply and care for her. I have contacted a lawyer prior and it only takes 3 months total in the state I live in. Now I have to worry about selling the house and lots of other headaches. I agree with you though, why should she get to stay there "because it's my house too" - is her argument. I can NOT see her coming and going, staying out late and doing whatever she wants - that just won't fly with me. I don't know how to force her out other than legally. Immense pain... Link to post Share on other sites
Ms. Red Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Well, it's over. She ended it last night. I'm sorry bud. You know you gave your all to make it work. Owl: It's hard to just walk away for me, clearly I love this woman deeply and care for her. I have contacted a lawyer prior and it only takes 3 months total in the state I live in. Now I have to worry about selling the house and lots of other headaches. I agree with you though, why should she get to stay there "because it's my house too" - is her argument. I can NOT see her coming and going, staying out late and doing whatever she wants - that just won't fly with me. I don't know how to force her out other than legally. Immense pain... [[[[HUGS]]]] Living together separated is not an easy task. I've done it and it blows. This is still fresh in your brain. Take a few days to let your mind work through the thoughts and solutions before you do anything. It's too early to act on anything knowing how you feel about her. I'm thinking of you and wish you the best recovering and a great future with someone who will truly love and respect you for your dedication to the relationship. Hang in there Surfer. You will get through this and you will feel better in time. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 well ----> you expected her to act like a decent, kind and caring wife ---> and SHE'S not capable of BEING the wife YOU expect her to be. this is a gift - at this point... take the opportunity and get out! run!!! she's not capable of BEING the woman you want her to be... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Surfer203 Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 Ms. Red and 2sunny - thank you.. you have always been friendly and supportive and I appreciate that. Ms. Red - What do you mean by "act on anything" ? 2sunny - It's hard to see it as a gift at this point. Maybe soon I will realize that it is. What stinks is that she is going to continue living around here and has inserted herself into some of my friends lives/hang outs. I told her I never want to run into her out in the world. I can't deal with that. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Owl: It's hard to just walk away for me, clearly I love this woman deeply and care for her. I have contacted a lawyer prior and it only takes 3 months total in the state I live in. Now I have to worry about selling the house and lots of other headaches. I agree with you though, why should she get to stay there "because it's my house too" - is her argument. I can NOT see her coming and going, staying out late and doing whatever she wants - that just won't fly with me. I don't know how to force her out other than legally. Immense pain... Then force her out legally. In some states, the person who serves can have the other person removed from the home to begin the legal seperation required by that state. Find out if this is an option. Don't take me wrong...I get that it's not easy for you to do all of this. But one thought...if you focus on the STEPS to make this divorce happen as quickly as possible and as much in your favor as possible...that in itself can be a distractor from the actual end goal for a while...it buys you the time to accept it and brace for it. Frankly...if this is her "go to" every time she's not happy with the relationship...that's a clear indicator she's simply not capable of being the kind of wife that you want/need. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 the gift is ---> she hasn't really been in the M all along - if you accept that - you will see that she hasn't been participating with loving behavior at ALL. forcing her to do things YOUR WAY - that's not what M is about. she's been showing you for a LONG TIME that she's been using you while he finds other ways to be happy. she's finally admitting that it's over - but it's been over for a long time... move FORWARD! stop giving her options - get it finalized so you can find peace within yourself. she's nothing but a user and a taker... be free from her dragging you down with her lies and deceit! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Surfer203 Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 Owl: I don't want to drag this on. So, I assume you don't think a separation is even worthwhile? 2sunny: You are right, she clearly can not live up to be some one who is deserving of the way I treated her. I wish I could just wash my hands of this and it be over but it's not that easy. This really sucks.... I don't know how I am going to be able to just sit around in my house and be miserable. I want to get out and do things but I am embarrassed to tell my friends. Should I start telling people or should I wait to see what happens? Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I'm not the guy actually in your marriage/relationship, Surfer. All I can do is look at what you've posted. It seems like everytime you put pressure on her to become the spouse you want/need, she has threatened divorce. You've seperated before...and look at where that led. It's your life, your marriage. From my perspective...she uses the divorce threat to get YOU to toe HER LINE. Its worked for her before. It's up to you...do you want to toe her line again? Do you want the situation to change? Are you willing to continue to accept this as it is now to remain in place? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Surfer203 Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 Owl: No this can't go on like that and I won't do this again. I would consider a separation as a last resort. That is all I am willing to do. Even then, I'm not sure that it the thing to do. What's ironic is 2 days ago I had a talk with her about what I expect from her. I told her I was unhappy with the pace of our reconciliation. She told me "things take time" - No s***! So why are you giving up and bailing on me without giving it time and effort. Link to post Share on other sites
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