25 Years Together - Is it time to end it?

[lovingwhatis]

Trippi, your post put a big smile on my face. Thanks for your words! I am glad what I wrote resonated with you.

 

Haha, that's funny, I actually couldn't have given you that advice 2 years ago! I actually realized these things in the past few months on an experiential level. I've been against therapy for myself for quite a while due to many reasons, and sometimes have so wished that someone would come and give me the advice needed, but alas it has been more of real life learning and books for me. And you are correct in saying that the EA I experienced was the reason for some of this soul searching. That and other life experiences, but the EA was a Huge wake up call that I heeded and I am glad I did.

 

Regarding loving ourselves first and realizing that it is not up to the other to fill the void we may have inside, that's something I've really put to the test by being alone and seeing what is really there without having the opportunity to project it onto another. Of course, one can always find people to project on, but its not the same as an intimate r. One of my favorite quotes from an author I like is "relationships don't cause pain, they bring out the pain that's already there". I've had an opportunity to get really familiarized with the pain that was already in me, sitting dormant, holding my heart hostage. The more I release that pain (and it doesn't seem to happen all at once), the more the love that is underneath comes through. I do have a few things to work on though, and actually this thread is bringing them up for me.

 

And lastly, the thing about others proving what we need on our own. I had this experience just this week with a family member! For a long time she was saying she'd do something, and didn't end up doing it. I got irritated at a time, and felt she didn't value me enough, etc, felt slighted. This week she completely followed through on her own and did it gladly! I was amazed and humbled. Our R has been shifting slowly in the past few months.

 

Again, thanks for your insightful posts too, I am glad to be in this conversation with both of you.

[lovingwhatis]

Nick,

 

I do agree that it is very unfortunate that she won't go to therapy with you or by herself. I have a close friend whose wife refused to go to therapy and it really really created a very difficult situation for the dynamics of the M. One can only shift so much on their own. I just wrote to trippi that I indeed believe that when we shift, it affects others for sure, but in your case I do feel that without her looking at her core wounds it would be such an uphill battle, not impossible, but sorta like climbing Mount Everest..

 

Btw, I am sensing a change in your posts today, did something happen to you over the weekend? Holidays can be a charged time.. One note regarding the fog that trippi is talking about (and trippi, please don't take this as an attack, but this is my perspective due to my experience). I can see the fog during an A, for it is a confusing time, things can definitely appear ... foggy. But the way you are responding here to me looks more like rationalizing due to your fear to really put it ALL on the table, and not necessarily the fog. After Dday you appear to have perceived a deeper reality that you were refusing to see before due to how huge and scary the problems are. What you have gone through regarding your sexual R is dire indeed. I know you said you did cognitive therapy. I did that for a little while too many years ago. To me cognitive therapy is treating the wrong ailment. Sure, there are perception problems, but the emotional issues and trauma don't go "poof" and disappear! You, being the intelligent person you are, are just now becoming aware of the vast pull of emotions!

 

On here, and in my life I've been big on really feeling the emotions Fully. You gotta feel it to heal it. I know, the scariest thing to attempt, but it works. So you are just uncovering the iceberg now. There are things underneath that are not even seen now. That's why all the rationalizing. And your "escape clause", that maybe also your way of saying "I will go only so far". I am not going to lie, it may feel pretty bad for a while. I've had Horrible nights and days. I mean painful. And since I don't drink, I could even drink one to numb the pain a bit. But it did subside. And after those dark nights the world starts looking a bit different, a bit kinder.

 

Its not for the faint of heart, but it is worth it..

[NickFeek]

I do agree that it is very unfortunate that she won't go to therapy with you or by herself. I have a close friend whose wife refused to go to therapy and it really really created a very difficult situation for the dynamics of the M. One can only shift so much on their own. I just wrote to trippi that I indeed believe that when we shift, it affects others for sure, but in your case I do feel that without her looking at her core wounds it would be such an uphill battle, not impossible, but sorta like climbing Mount Everest..

I'm afraid you may be right. I know my changing isn't over, and I have a lot of mistakes to answer for, and I'm certainly nowhere near perfect. BUT I do feel I've changed quite a bit, and have tried to adjust to her way of living & coping quite a bit. And I think she will have to open up to the realization that she needs to come half way or so before things will start to look & feel better. As always, I'm willing to help if she's willing to do it. But as of now & the last umpteen years, she's not willing..

Btw, I am sensing a change in your posts today, did something happen to you over the weekend? Holidays can be a charged time..

No, I wouldn't say anything happened this weekend, though something did just happen tonight. This weekend, we were all together as a family, with both of our families, which was nice. I get tremendous support from both my parents and my in-laws. In fact, my in-laws are probably more helpful than my own parents. My wife & I talked a bit here & there. Nothing came of it until about an hour ago. She cried terribly & said her heart is broken and she can't think of anything we could do to change that. Now, she's said that before, and has had better days in between. But I fear this is what she's truly holding onto in her heart. I said many things in response, all an attempt to be comforting and positive, and that includes the urgent need for us to go to counseling. She still refuses. It's as though she needs to hold onto her pain right now - hopefully JUST right now. I even told her she has a pattern of digging deep in during a crisis, and that I'm going to try everything I can to make sure she doesn't do that this time, that she keeps talking to me. She must have been in the wrong mood to hear that, because she just shook it off & kept saying there's nothing we can do.

I can see the fog during an A, for it is a confusing time, things can definitely appear ... foggy. But the way you are responding here to me looks more like rationalizing due to your fear to really put it ALL on the table, and not necessarily the fog. After Dday you appear to have perceived a deeper reality that you were refusing to see before due to how huge and scary the problems are. What you have gone through regarding your sexual R is dire indeed. I know you said you did cognitive therapy. I did that for a little while too many years ago. To me cognitive therapy is treating the wrong ailment. Sure, there are perception problems, but the emotional issues and trauma don't go "poof" and disappear! You, being the intelligent person you are, are just now becoming aware of the vast pull of emotions!

I think you're both right. No question I'm afraid to lay it all out. But I do know what IT all is, and have known for a long time. My fear is more that I don't think she's in any condition to hear & process it, and that in her state after my infidelity it would just seem like a justification and/or an attack. I also think I'm still in that fog a bit, though I'm unclear exactly what that means (which I guess sort of defines "fog" .

On here, and in my life I've been big on really feeling the emotions Fully. You gotta feel it to heal it. I know, the scariest thing to attempt, but it works. So you are just uncovering the iceberg now. There are things underneath that are not even seen now. That's why all the rationalizing. And your "escape clause", that maybe also your way of saying "I will go only so far". I am not going to lie, it may feel pretty bad for a while. I've had Horrible nights and days. I mean painful. And since I don't drink, I could even drink one to numb the pain a bit. But it did subside. And after those dark nights the world starts looking a bit different, a bit kinder.

That is SO TRUE. You gotta feel it to heal it. There's no other way. Way back before I turned a corner in therapy, I was A. afraid to feel a lot of it, and B. tried to compensate by either ignoring it or, when I couldn't ignore it anymore, solve it with logic alone. Inevitably, each and every time, it wasn't until I FELT IT that I really could process it, work on it, express it clearly, get beyond it, and not let it affect everything so toxically. The iceberg I'm uncovering has much more to do with what she has been holding inside, and the realizations she might make as she starts to uncover it. I'm afraid most of all for her, but also for myself & my family. I also had sooo many dark nights and days, almost all of them between 1992-2005. Since '05 I've had a handful here & there, but I've been SO much stronger that I've been able to snap out of them more quickly & find my strength of center. BUT I do expect more of those to come as this develops, because as I said to my wife an hour ago, no matter what happens next, it's going to be very hard.

[Yasuandio]

 

On the quote, being wanted rather than needed, the "wanted" part is two-fold. My conclusion of being wanted may be different. I equate being wanted as true intimacy...being wanted is when your spouse enjoys your company, wants to see you first thing in the morning, wants to be there for you and with you, your voice is the one that they love to hear, your touch, your presence brings them happiness and peace. That to me is what a want is...the actions are two people wanting to make each other happy, the actions of those wants are two people taking the time to shift their priorities to be good to each other in spite of the difficulties...mainly because they want to be with each other, they want each other in their lives and be a part of that life everyday....sharing.

 

The Need is different, the need is the other things in the relationship. Need is the things that can get done by anyone. Yes, needing someone does have it's place in the relationship...but the significant importance is that you want a person to be a part of your life.

 

Not sure that your want versus need is the same. To be wanted by a woman is a physical intimacy, a sexual want is not the same as wanting someone to be a totally fulfilling part of your life. If the want is there as in true intimacy, suffice it to say, physical intimacy should follow.

 

This is a truely profound distinction Ms. Trippi draws, in the most eloquent way I could ever imagine. I am stunned at her wisdom, and kiss her feet. No sh_t.

[Yasuandio]

 

On the quote, being wanted rather than needed, the "wanted" part is two-fold. My conclusion of being wanted may be different. I equate being wanted as true intimacy...being wanted is when your spouse enjoys your company, wants to see you first thing in the morning, wants to be there for you and with you, your voice is the one that they love to hear, your touch, your presence brings them happiness and peace. That to me is what a want is...the actions are two people wanting to make each other happy, the actions of those wants are two people taking the time to shift their priorities to be good to each other in spite of the difficulties...mainly because they want to be with each other, they want each other in their lives and be a part of that life everyday....sharing.

 

The Need is different, the need is the other things in the relationship. Need is the things that can get done by anyone. Yes, needing someone does have it's place in the relationship...but the significant importance is that you want a person to be a part of your life.

 

Not sure that your want versus need is the same. To be wanted by a woman is a physical intimacy, a sexual want is not the same as wanting someone to be a totally fulfilling part of your life. If the want is there as in true intimacy, suffice it to say, physical intimacy should follow.

 

Need vs Want. This is a truely profound distinction Ms. Trippi draws, in the most eloquent fashion I could ever imagine. I am stunned by her wisdom, and, if ever granted the privlidge, I would gladly kiss her feet. No sh_t.

Edited April 26, 2011 by Yasuandio

[lovingwhatis]

Hugs, Nick!

 

Wow, its so hard, I know this is breaking your heart, and her heart too... I really wish to say something really encouraging, and for one, I am glad that you have processed your emotions already in the way you have. That's really big. The fact that you've had few dark nights intermittently shows a lot. Since she has been reluctant to go there all these years, now it probably feels even more daunting... Hugs to her too.

 

I am sorry she is feeling like there isn't much that she can do now. As you pointed out, her depressed state is probably making it even harder to look at a future better place. I am an optimist, a cautious optimist, but nevertheless I do believe in magic. So even though she is feeling like this, and you from the perspective of seeing It are understandably daunted by it, there is hope that she Will have a breakthrough. Seriously, I am not just saying this to be nice. I have personally experienced such breakthrough as a result of the EA, it was overnight and it was lasting. Have you ever discussed with her alternative therapies? The thing about psychotherapy is that it is soooo slow (imo). And expensive to boot. No wonder she is not thrilled by the prospect of a 5 year ordeal or something like that. But there Are other methods. Let me know if you are interested. They require open mindedness which I know you have, but maybe she won't be as eager... But I am judging. Maybe she will.

 

Its great you have the i-ching on your phone! Do you use it often? What does it say about your situation? I'd be very interested to know...

 

Once again, hugs!

[NickFeek]

I appreciate the encouragement AND the hugs. I need all I can get tonight. I do hope she will have a breakthrough. It's something I've thought of, and been hoping for for a while, and certainly good to know you've already experienced something like this. She is a stubborn soul, and will hold on as long as she can. I just have to hope that she doesn't find a way to hold on forever.

 

I think the first step therapy-wise for her has to be marriage counseling. Not because it's the RIGHT first step, but because I believe it's the ONLY first step she'll ever consent to take. Beyond that, it is very hard for me to imagine her considering ANY other kind of therapy. Not to say it's completely out of the realm of the possible, but it would take NOTHING SHORT of a miracle. If I sense that changing, I'd be happy to discuss it more with you.

 

No, I confess I read the I-ching once and haven't cracked it open since. But it's so convenient & so timely right now that I think I'll check it out again. Thanks!

[trippi1432]

Need vs Want. This is a truely profound distinction Ms. Trippi draws, in the most eloquent fashion I could ever imagine. I am stunned by her wisdom, and, if ever granted the privlidge, I would gladly kiss her feet. No sh_t.

:o:o Thanks Yas....feet kissing not necessary though. Hugs!!

[lovingwhatis]

Here's more hugs then!

 

I just asked a q for you, what's the best path, and this is what came up! I'd say this is very good advice, and encouraging too.

 

8, holding together (union) From the Anthony book A Guide to the I-ching

 

If one puts his integrity foremost in this hierarch of values, so that the never sacrifices it to fear, or compromises it to desire, then he is capable of drawing out others' higher natures, and of uniting with them in a common moral accord.

 

Holding together with others begins when we hold together within ourselves morally and spiritually. By marrying our inner sense of truth, we follow a way of responding to situations that is in harmony with our essential self.

 

This hex also affirms that it is a natural human drive to seek harmony with others. It confirms that anyone who develops his potential for greatness, consisency, and strength, automatically functions as a center for uniting people. Only one such well developed person is needed to hold together all those who surround him. .... Are we able to remain firm when we would rather be soft, constant when we would rather quit, and steadfast in spite of the emotional baby within, that demonically insist that we force matters to ca conclusion? Few people possess such qualities right away. Only by being challenged, time and again, do we regain them.

 

Fifth line, manifestation of holding together, good fortune

If someone who has become aware of our limits chooses not to respect them, we must allow him to go his way, because in every case he must adhere to them voluntarily, though his insight. We draw people into a R only by our inner strength and consistency. We must always accept that they can only stay through free will. Indicating slow progress, and kindness when others confess their errors to us.

 

 

Here, and I not a fan of typing text. But this does seem to fit well. By focusing on You you may find that you have a lot more influence than you imagined. Good influence. Right now is such an important point. Remain strong and don't give in to the fears. Yes, breakthroughs are possible. I am a stubborn one too.

[2sunny]

No, I wouldn't say anything happened this weekend, though something did just happen tonight. This weekend, we were all together as a family, with both of our families, which was nice. I get tremendous support from both my parents and my in-laws. In fact, my in-laws are probably more helpful than my own parents. My wife & I talked a bit here & there. Nothing came of it until about an hour ago. She cried terribly & said her heart is broken and she can't think of anything we could do to change that. Now, she's said that before, and has had better days in between. But I fear this is what she's truly holding onto in her heart. I said many things in response, all an attempt to be comforting and positive, and that includes the urgent need for us to go to counseling. She still refuses. It's as though she needs to hold onto her pain right now - hopefully JUST right now. I even told her she has a pattern of digging deep in during a crisis, and that I'm going to try everything I can to make sure she doesn't do that this time, that she keeps talking to me. She must have been in the wrong mood to hear that, because she just shook it off & kept saying there's nothing we can do.

 

this doesn't make sense.

 

what is she talking about? she can certainly DO things - and so can both of you together.

 

is this her way of saying that she WON'T do anything? it appears that way... please clarify.

 

and the tears...why? she should be happy you are interested in change- yet she's not.

 

it really seems like a reaction from a wife who IS cheating. it's very odd.

 

for her to feel as though neither one of you can DO anything to change this is absolutely the most absurd thing i've read here.

 

of course there is much that can be done. sell EVERYTHING if you need to! are the material things more important than the marriage? she can get a job that demands less effort and time on her part - seriously! do anything different!

 

anything and everything COULD be considered if her mind is open... why is she being SO closed minded. that's ridiculous!

 

IF she states she's not going to change a thing - the only option is to hand her divorce papers immediately. maybe THAT would help her get her mind more open to change. sheeez.

[2sunny]

all of your posts keep indicating that you are waiting for her to do certain things. she's said she's NOT going to DO any of them.

 

stop expecting her to change.

 

THIS IS ABOUT YOU!

 

what are YOU and YOU alone going to DO differently.

 

YOU CAN ONLY CHANGE YOU!

 

 

 

expect her to do life exactly as she always does = because that's what you can expect.

 

CHANGE YOU!

 

what is that change for YOU going to look like now that you know for sure she's not changing a thing?

 

reading and talking about it all is simply not enough.

 

and for what it's worth - she's simply not at all uncomfortable enough to want anything to change... so her resistance is high. look at that link again i gave you. as long as she's even slightly comfy - she's going to do things the same as always...

[NickFeek]

Since my wife found out about my cheating, I've been compiling a file called "Healing Notes". It consists of a variety of things, from a paper written by a person who was cheated on, to statistics, to what to do in case of separation, etc. etc. I've just added your I-Ching answer to those notes. It's something I'm going to read & absorb as much as possible.

 

Thanks, and I hope this will help make a difference.

[NickFeek]

this doesn't make sense.

 

what is she talking about? she can certainly DO things - and so can both of you together.

 

is this her way of saying that she WON'T do anything? it appears that way... please clarify.

I think this makes sense in light of what she's had to deal with - my cheating. I don't like that it's such a defeatist attitude. But she's been here before & has snapped out of it. I'm hoping this is her getting ready to hit rock bottom before she starts heading upward. Then again, if you're right and she remains as stubborn as she is, this could be the beginning of the end.

and the tears...why? she should be happy you are interested in change- yet she's not.

The tears, again, are because of how hurt she still is at what I've done. She's finding it hard to believe that the boy/man she's known since we were 17, who's gone through so much of life with her, has broken her heart so thoroughly. I KNOW there's another side to this, but she's not ready to accept that now. I will try to guide her there, but it's up to her to do it.

it really seems like a reaction from a wife who IS cheating. it's very odd.

You're not the first person who's suggested she might be cheating. I am so positive this isn't true, but I'm also so intrigued that people would think of this. Can you explain more why you think this reaction says that to you?

for her to feel as though neither one of you can DO anything to change this is absolutely the most absurd thing i've read here.

 

of course there is much that can be done. sell EVERYTHING if you need to! are the material things more important than the marriage? she can get a job that demands less effort and time on her part - seriously! do anything different!

 

anything and everything COULD be considered if her mind is open... why is she being SO closed minded. that's ridiculous!

Well again let's hope it's just a bad night & a little dramatic doom-saying, and she'll bounce up some. I'll certainly let everyone know. Believe me, I have told her so often I don't care about the money, that she can choose to shift gears if she wants & I'll support that - anything that would make our daily lives more livable. She generally gets ultra close-minded when hit with a crisis. The morning after she's more reasonable. I'm getting less & less hopeful that this pattern will hold, but we shall see.

IF she states she's not going to change a thing - the only option is to hand her divorce papers immediately. maybe THAT would help her get her mind more open to change. sheeez.

I LOVE your outrage. Absolutely love it. And hell I've been tempted often to do this. When I walked out of the bedroom to help the kids with something, you can bet that same thought ran through my head. But I have to stay true to what I told her before I left the room, which is we deserve better than to just give up on a dime, both as individuals and as a marriage/family.

[lovingwhatis]

Healing notes, that sounds like a very good idea. I am glad you liked it.

 

I find the fifth line (I trust you know how the lines work), to be saying something similar to what 2sunny is saying (but a bit more flowery). When we show our limits to others and they don't respect them, we gotta be strong and allow them to and let them come to their own insight. Even before ever laying eyes on the i ching I have practiced that in my Rs. It is painful ultimately, but I always get a sense of relief and freedom when I do it. Then I deal with my feelings afterward. It is a strong love lesson for me.

 

Hope is sometimes a four letter word. Don't hope, Know, Trust that it can be better. But it may involve standing strong when all you want is to give in. That's not a game that you'd play, but it is a true test to show your W that your boundaries Are really your boundaries.

 

Hugs.

[NickFeek]

all of your posts keep indicating that you are waiting for her to do certain things. she's said she's NOT going to DO any of them.

 

stop expecting her to change.

 

THIS IS ABOUT YOU!

 

what are YOU and YOU alone going to DO differently.

 

YOU CAN ONLY CHANGE YOU!

I agree, but two points about that:

1. I have changed me, and continue to do so, and I'm okay with how that's going.

2. I still love her enough that I feel I owe it to her to be patient, to give her this last chance to DO and not just SAY. I'm willing to wait a bit longer, and since as you say this is about me, I feel free to make that choice, knowing that at least this time around there will be an end of some kind. And if I'm proven wrong and she decides not to DO, I can then choose to leave. She's given me quite a lot over the years - I want to do right by her even in the midst of all this.

 

 

expect her to do life exactly as she always does = because that's what you can expect.

 

CHANGE YOU!

 

what is that change for YOU going to look like now that you know for sure she's not changing a thing?

 

reading and talking about it all is simply not enough.

The change for me is one of two things. I'll either fight hard enough to prompt her to do ANYTHING needed to make this right. Or I'll leave. I'm pretty clear on that. Reading & talking are not enough, but they help. And when other loved ones are involved, you can't just spring up and act solely for yourself.

and for what it's worth - she's simply not at all uncomfortable enough to want anything to change... so her resistance is high. look at that link again i gave you. as long as she's even slightly comfy - she's going to do things the same as always...

All I can say is she's getting less & less comfy. And it hurts me soooo much to see her in this kind of pain that I don't think I'm ready to induce any more discomfort. If in my life this is all about ME, then in her life this is all about HER, and I think she's working her way up to a pretty awful level of discomfort on her own. The important thing to keep in mind is that there is a time limit on all of this, one that I will uphold if not enforce outwardly. And through all of our equivocating & nonaction in the past, a time limit is something I've never had. It is freeing & calming, and is one of the only things getting me through this without breaking down.

[NickFeek]

I find the fifth line (I trust you know how the lines work), to be saying something similar to what 2sunny is saying (but a bit more flowery). When we show our limits to others and they don't respect them, we gotta be strong and allow them to and let them come to their own insight. Even before ever laying eyes on the i ching I have practiced that in my Rs. It is painful ultimately, but I always get a sense of relief and freedom when I do it. Then I deal with my feelings afterward. It is a strong love lesson for me.

Definitely some common ground between you & 2sunny, though it may not seem that way on the surface. I think within this new situation, I've found a place I can be while I see if she will come to some insight. I will help & have helped where I can, but the end part of the journey is going to be like a death for her, and as we all know death is one journey you have to take alone.

Hope is sometimes a four letter word. Don't hope, Know, Trust that it can be better. But it may involve standing strong when all you want is to give in. That's not a game that you'd play, but it is a true test to show your W that your boundaries Are really your boundaries.

This is something I read in that paper written by the cheated-on spouse. Stand strong & keep your goal in mind even when your emotions tell you otherwise. Don't always believe that momentary emotions are the ultimate truth. They may be the truth in the moment, but it's the goal that holds ultimate power, if you're strong enough to stay steady. And so far I've done that, despite wanting to end this whole thing at least five days out of every week for all these months.

Hugs.

I won't turn down the extra hugs!

[2sunny]

i think one specific element you can work on in therapy or on your own is understanding the dynamics of respect - or lack of.

 

i don't think she respects you.

 

your passive nature hasn't earned her respect. how can you change that?

[Olivia1966]

1. complained loud and long about being unhappy

2 .guilt tripped her about the kids

3. become increasingly angry,nasty & accusatory with her

4. you had an affair

 

Has any of the above worked? What else is there to try?

 

I surely hope those final questions are sarcasm.

[NickFeek]

2sunny,

 

Eh, I know what she respects about me & what she doesn't. I would have been okay with that mix if other things had been good. It just got too much for me.

 

And yes I've been too passive, and/or have taken out my upset in other, less constructive, sometimes damaging ways. I've also done my share of bad things - nothing like the cheating, but enough to upset a spouse. So there have absolutely been ways I haven't respected her.

 

I'm changing that by first respecting her in ways I never have before. A person can't expect to be respected if he can't treat others the same way. Secondly, I'm making sure she knows that I won't accept that kind of disrespect anymore.

[NickFeek]

I surely hope those final questions are sarcasm.

 

Exactly. Assuming that was all I tried - and that does not begin to scratch the surface - there are so many other things I can try that might actually have a chance of working. The last six months have been a major course correction. Whether it's too little too late is up to both of us, and no one else.

[2sunny]

2sunny,

 

Eh, I know what she respects about me & what she doesn't. I would have been okay with that mix if other things had been good. It just got too much for me.

 

And yes I've been too passive, and/or have taken out my upset in other, less constructive, sometimes damaging ways. I've also done my share of bad things - nothing like the cheating, but enough to upset a spouse. So there have absolutely been ways I haven't respected her.

 

I'm changing that by first respecting her in ways I never have before. A person can't expect to be respected if he can't treat others the same way. Secondly, I'm making sure she knows that I won't accept that kind of disrespect anymore.

 

this isn't true. since she ignores your correspondence while at work - she's NOT respecting you. nor is she respecting you when she said she would change - then didn't

 

her words don't match her actions... when that happens = there is always a lie in there somewhere... mainly because what they say isn't what they end up doing.

 

i think you aren't being honest with yourself about the dynamics that are happening in your relationship.

 

until you can be honest with yourself - you are lying to yourself as well. she isn't participating. words are only empty without the action to back it up.

 

i work with MANY... you and your wife do too much talking and not enough changing of your actions. expect nothing to change at all with this approach.

 

did you even view the link i gave you - she is RESISTING... resisting any change... and there is NO motivation to make anything different.

 

tears are curious given the state of your marriage... there are many things that can be done - yet she doesn't want to. the tears indicate something else going on = i guarantee it. she's not being honest.

Edited April 26, 2011 by 2sunny

[NickFeek]

this isn't true. since she ignores your correspondence while at work - she's NOT respecting you. nor is she respecting you when she said she would change - then didn't

 

her words don't match her actions... when that happens = there is always a lie in there somewhere... mainly because what they say isn't what they end up doing.

Good points, and I'm well aware these things have to change for us to be a successful couple. But respect is not really at its height after someone cheats on you.

i think you aren't being honest with yourself about the dynamics that are happening in your relationship.

I'm being honest. I can see all of this. It's why we're in this state now - along with my cheating, that is. You have to remember that I also still love her, and I do respect her, so I'm willing to give her this chance to step up. Can't say I'm confident yet that she will, but I'm secure in this decision because it's the charitable thing to do, it respects her and what we so painfully tried to build for so long, and because it won't last forever - because I say it won't.

until you can be honest with yourself - you are lying to yourself as well. she isn't participating. words are only empty without the action to back it up.

Again, it's not so much lying to myself as it is knowing the difference between what WAS and what IS NOW. There are absolutely ways she still disrespects me, and that fact alone is what has kept me from committing completely to our recovery. But there are other ways she respects me now that she didn't before (and vice versa). And THAT fact is what makes it worth it for me to keep working on this for the time being. I'm willing to endure anything if I know it won't last forever. And this time it won't.

i work with MANY... you and your wife do too much talking and not enough changing of your actions. expect nothing to change at all with this approach.

Well that's a definite! It's what got us here. We're awesome talkers. We've used conversational agreement as a palliative to hold us over until the next flare-up. But NOW those days are over. The talking we're doing now is necessary & has to continue until we're satisfied we can do no more. And if we don't shift the balance from talking to doing soon, there WILL be no more we can do.

[NickFeek]

did you even view the link i gave you - she is RESISTING... resisting any change... and there is NO motivation to make anything different.

I didn't need to view the link again to know this. She has ALWAYS resisted change. There's more motivation now than ever, because she has never been unhappier. You seem to be overlooking the fact that she is still in deep recovery from the cheating, and in deep pain. If that's not a motivation to change, I don't know what is.

tears are curious given the state of your marriage... there are many things that can be done - yet she doesn't want to. the tears indicate something else going on = i guarantee it. she's not being honest.

Again, it seems you're not really taking into account the cheating. I don't find the tears to be odd at all. I've actually expected way more tears than she's shed. She's in deep pain from my betrayal, and that doesn't go away overnight. I DO think there's a reason she resists change so vehemently, but I think that reason is deep down in her, and not part of any circumstance she's lying about. It'd be extremely interesting to be proven wrong, but I'd sooner expect her to fly.

[2sunny]

ok - so since this thread started and almost 200 posts later - it appears that still nothing has changed.

 

time - you keeping giving it all more time... that's only useful as long as movement is happening - and there is absolutely nothing you have typed that indicates ONE bit of change throughout the entire thread.

 

you have lost your authentic self in all this. you are aware that the M hurts you in so many ways - yet you stay knowing it is causing you great pain. you are not honoring yourself... how could you possibly expect her to respect you when you don't respect yourself. that's backwards. she treats you like trash then smooths it over with empty words because you allow it every time. pretend you two don't speak - then watch what the actions tell you.

 

speak your truth, have a voice - DO what you talk of. have a boundary that doesn't allow her to mistreat you. and leave the M, if necessary... knowing it's simply not enough to love someone when they don't act lovingly enough to be at home often enough to stay connected to the family unit.

 

she's a liar and a thief... she has stolen the time you could have spent as a family - and it just continues.

 

nothing changes if nothing changes. stop talking and start changing YOU.

 

no more pointing the finger at her- she's not gonna change. YOU decide what's best for you in the long run knowing she's not changing.

[2sunny]

did you even view the link i gave you - she is RESISTING... resisting any change... and there is NO motivation to make anything different.

I didn't need to view the link again to know this. She has ALWAYS resisted change. There's more motivation now than ever, because she has never been unhappier. You seem to be overlooking the fact that she is still in deep recovery from the cheating, and in deep pain. If that's not a motivation to change, I don't know what is.

tears are curious given the state of your marriage... there are many things that can be done - yet she doesn't want to. the tears indicate something else going on = i guarantee it. she's not being honest.

Again, it seems you're not really taking into account the cheating. I don't find the tears to be odd at all. I've actually expected way more tears than she's shed. She's in deep pain from my betrayal, and that doesn't go away overnight. I DO think there's a reason she resists change so vehemently, but I think that reason is deep down in her, and not part of any circumstance she's lying about. It'd be extremely interesting to be proven wrong, but I'd sooner expect her to fly.

 

SHE hasn't been held accountable for HER part in the cheating. i'll tell you this: IF you ignore a man long enough - he will eventually find someone who will pay attention to him. if an extended amount of time goes by for a man without love and affection... he is starved and will go looking for attention and affection. what did she expect? ignore hubby and be absent - and he should starve with affection until i find 5 minutes in my busy schedule to look his way... it's not good enough - and it shouldn't be good enough for you. she's delusional to think this would be even half adequate for any man.

 

for probably the first time since i've been here on LS, i don't totally blame you for cheating. she deserved it. she wasn't being your wife... what did she expect?

 

you are responsible for your actions- but she is also responsible for ignoring you by not participating as your wife. now that she knows this - she still isn't making an effort for you by changing. YOU SHOULD BE DAMN MAD!

 

since she LOVES her work that much - enough to sacrifice the best interest of staying connected and participating in a loving way with the family - she should leave. she should be willing to give you to another woman who would love and appreciate your kindness. instead she's stomping on it and taking advantage of your gentle and generous nature... that's not loving behavior.