25 Years Together - Is it time to end it?

[NickFeek]

Nick, I sincerely wish that for both of you! Hugs.

 

Thank you!

[lovingwhatis]

 

But when two people are sharing a life together, love, children, home, job, security....love alone in the emotional realm of things will not suffice. A marriage is about sharing...responsibility, hopes, dreams, desires, outlooks, a future...it's not just about the now...it's not just about adjusting our center....but about adjusting our lives and moving through the ebb and flow of constant change.

 

The bolded is beautifully said, trippi. Only because you asked, I will share what resonates about love with me at this time, based on inner contemplation and experiences. I will use other people's words because I feel they describe it more eloquently. This is not in any way a religious discussion, and I am not religious, so I am just sharing. To me love is Beingness, its what we Are.

 

Hindu sages have expressed it as such:

 

"Your real being is love itself, and your many loves are its reflections according to the situation at the moment."

 

"The consciousness in you and the consciousness in me, apparently two, really one, seek unity and that is love."

 

 

This is really similar to this:

 

"This isn't about understanding.

This is about falling into the mystery..." When you make the two one,

And when you make the inside like the outside

And the outside like the inside,

Then will you enter the Kingdom.

- Jesus, Gospel of Thomas

 

 

So that's all, just falling into the mystery... How that happens is another matter...

[2sunny]

You nailed my top three, and in the correct order! I have asked her to be specific about her languages. She said she'd read the rest of the book & get back to me. That was four weeks ago. I really do want to know, because like you said I need to make it safe for her to be vulnerable, and giving her the love she needs is one part of that. I admit I haven't always made it safe, and certainly not with what I did back in September.

 

Really well put that she may not have seen the train on the tracks. Even though I was telling her repeatedly how poorly I was doing (that's a paraphrase of many ways I told her), that doesn't mean she was getting the severity of what I was saying. And I can say now that we ARE finally on the same track. It hurts to know how much she's hurting, but on another level it feels right, and more true than what was before.

 

you have based your happiness level on what she is or isn't doing. that part is backwards.

 

you need to find a way to be happy, yourself, with or without her willingness to participate... IF she chooses to participate with you - that is the bonus!

 

she is more likely to become willing IF you make YOU happy - with or without her. find out what that specifically entails- and looks like - for YOU!

 

if she chooses not to join in = you still get to understand and know happiness on your own. to base your level of what happy is - on her - is completely backwards!

 

she MAY never participate the way you expect her to... that is what i've been trying to point out all along. get busy living and understanding what happy looks like for YOU!

[NickFeek]

you have based your happiness level on what she is or isn't doing. that part is backwards.

 

you need to find a way to be happy, yourself, with or without her willingness to participate... IF she chooses to participate with you - that is the bonus!

 

she is more likely to become willing IF you make YOU happy - with or without her. find out what that specifically entails- and looks like - for YOU!

 

if she chooses not to join in = you still get to understand and know happiness on your own. to base your level of what happy is - on her - is completely backwards!

 

she MAY never participate the way you expect her to... that is what i've been trying to point out all along. get busy living and understanding what happy looks like for YOU!

 

Two things come up for me on this subject.

 

One is I have spent the last several years figuring out what makes me happy, and have (out of fear of this very thing happening) left the interpersonal for last. Most of the rest of my life is good, and I'm a fairly happy person otherwise. It's those few points in the marriage that are tripping me up.

 

And that leads to my second point, which is that no matter how happy I can make myself, I am one of those people who seeks & needs things from other people. I need the connection, etc. It makes me happy to know someone I love is happy, and it makes me happy to get what I need from that someone. Neither are true for my wife right now. So even though I'm confident I can continue to find happiness for myself, there is heartbreak in knowing it may not be with her.

[2sunny]

Two things come up for me on this subject.

 

One is I have spent the last several years figuring out what makes me happy, and have (out of fear of this very thing happening) left the interpersonal for last. Most of the rest of my life is good, and I'm a fairly happy person otherwise. It's those few points in the marriage that are tripping me up.

 

And that leads to my second point, which is that no matter how happy I can make myself, I am one of those people who seeks & needs things from other people. I need the connection, etc. It makes me happy to know someone I love is happy, and it makes me happy to get what I need from that someone. Neither are true for my wife right now. So even though I'm confident I can continue to find happiness for myself, there is heartbreak in knowing it may not be with her.

 

yep - i remember that state well... that was six years ago...

 

your statements conflict each other - wherein you state you worked on your happiness level but that it depended upon others to be happy. no can do...

 

i found that when i based my happiness on one person (or persons) - and my willingness to sacrifice my happiness level at the cost of losing me - my happiness = that my world came tumbling down when i divorced him.

 

i AM happy now. all on my own. then when i AM around others - whether it's a friend, family, lover or even a stranger - i share my COMPLETE happiness with them - it's a whole different level of happy that i never thought possible. a much more intense and true version of what happy looks like - for me. i share my energy with them knowing that i have positive energy to exchange. this can happen whether we are exchanging words or in complete silence. there are many ways that we all communicate. our energy speaks for itself!

 

sometimes i do an exercise - i say nothing when i'm with someone else. i see what happens, what i feel from them, what they tell me with no words spoken, i can pay attention to what we are DOING instead of the distraction of words. this exercise tells me everything i need to know. i can give away positive energy as long as the other person's channel of communication is open to receiving it. if they aren't open to a channel of communication - i'm just wasting my time and energy. no need to put forth any more effort at that point until that person states they are open minded and willing to receive.

 

other times - when someone needs to chat - i simply listen. i listen and observe. their body language needs to confirm the spoken words. if they are saying something and the body language is complete conflict with the chosen words - there's a lie in there somewhere... the person may not even know they are lying to themselves... but the body language rarely lies.

 

pay attention. are you understanding what is really going on - or are you wasting a ton of time and energy trying to MAKE her do something she simply doesn't intend to do?

 

this is about you - and changing what things YOU are capable of changing... that may simply be YOUR intent, expectations and your perspective based on what things you've been TOLD to expect out of life - instead of just living in today, accepting what's happy about that - whether she's around or not.

 

you CAN be happy with YOU... all on your own - change is a very good thing!

 

you CAN do this for you - as well.

Edited April 27, 2011 by 2sunny

[NickFeek]

yep - i remember that state well... that was six years ago...

 

your statements conflict each other - wherein you state you worked on your happiness level but that it depended upon others to be happy. no can do...

 

i found that when i based my happiness on one person (or persons) - and my willingness to sacrifice my happiness level at the cost of losing me - my happiness = that my world came tumbling down when i divorced him.

 

i AM happy now. all on my own. then when i AM around others - whether it's a friend, family, lover or even a stranger - i share my COMPLETE happiness with them - it's a whole different level of happy that i never thought possible. a much more intense and true version of what happy looks like - for me. i share my energy with them knowing that i have positive energy to exchange. this can happen whether we are exchanging words or in complete silence. there are many ways that we all communicate. our energy speaks for itself!

 

sometimes i do an exercise - i say nothing when i'm with someone else. i see what happens, what i feel from them, what they tell me with no words spoken, i can pay attention to what we are DOING instead of the distraction of words. this exercise tells me everything i need to know. i can give away positive energy as long as the other person's channel of communication is open to receiving it. if they aren't open to a channel of communication - i'm just wasting my time and energy. no need to put forth any more effort at that point until that person states they are open minded and willing to receive.

 

other times - when someone needs to chat - i simply listen. i listen and observe. their body language needs to confirm the spoken words. if they are saying something and the body language is complete conflict with the chosen words - there's a lie in there somewhere... the person may not even know they are lying to themselves... but the body language rarely lies.

 

pay attention. are you understanding what is really going on - or are you wasting a ton of time and energy trying to MAKE her do something she simply doesn't intend to do?

 

this is about you - and changing what things YOU are capable of changing... that may simply be YOUR intent, expectations and your perspective based on what things you've been TOLD to expect out of life - instead of just living in today, accepting what's happy about that - whether she's around or not.

 

you CAN be happy with YOU... all on your own - change is a very good thing!

 

you CAN do this for you - as well.

 

Yes, my statements conflict each other. I think that's the true nature of existence. It's possible to be happy on one level - say within yourself, and unhappy on another level - in relation to someone else. I do think TRUE happiness has to include that from within, that you can't truly be happy with someone else if you're not happy with yourself. But I also think humans are too complex to define happiness based on one parameter. Each of us, however, can choose to open parts of ourselves to be filled by happiness from others, or choose to need only our own happiness. BUT only a very few are truly able to exist without needing things from others. Further, I think that people can often convince themselves they don't need anything from anyone to be happy, only to find down the line that they've been ignoring something crucial just to fit all the parts into their idea of what life should be.

 

And yet I envy you. I do think I'm happier with myself now than at any time in my life, and that these last weeks I've begun to know what it might feel like to be happy not being with someone else - either my wife or my ex-lover or anyone. I still fear being lonely, but I also know that being alone is not the same, and that often being WITH someone and still feeling LONELY is worse than just being alone. I know that too well.

 

I love how you're able to detect the truth in others. I have a good feel for this, and though my wife has stymied me for years, I think deep down I've always known there's a disconnect, as I'm sure she's seen in me (though not often acknowledged).

 

I do see what's going on, and that the conflict is shifting from whether or not we'll be together to whether or not she can and/or will do what I wish she would do. Just because I wish it doesn't mean it's right for her, and doesn't mean she wants to. I think if we're able to converse about this very openly & calmly, we'll have no choice but to agree on whatever the outcome is.

 

Either way, though also scared, I'm looking forward to what's next, because it will be completely new & healthier than all the rest of it. Thanks.

[2sunny]

I do see what's going on, and that the conflict is shifting from whether or not we'll be together to whether or not she can and/or will do what I wish she would do. Just because I wish it doesn't mean it's right for her, and doesn't mean she wants to. I think if we're able to converse about this very openly & calmly, we'll have no choice but to agree on whatever the outcome is.

 

are you willing to try something new?

 

you are correct - just cuz you wish for it doesn't mean she wants it too - or is willing to do anything about it.

 

try this. since you always seem to talk together. let her speak. watch what she's doing... or not doing. say nothing. just expect to interact and say nothing.

 

see how that plays out. what is SHE saying? it's easier to pay attention when you don't expect to talk. are her words in alignment with what her body language is telling you - or is there a disconnect? is there contrast in what her body is doing? pay attention - it's a life lesson. is she facing you, interactive body language that is open and giving, willingly offering information and solutions to matters at hand - and fully participating? or is there divided energy she's giving you?

 

when she talks to you - does she give you her FULL FRONTAL attention and deep eye contact so you KNOW she's connected and participating? or is she moving around? distracted? doing several things at the same time as talking to you? is she present for the moment she's in or is she not giving you the time and attention it takes to participate in interacting fully with another person? she may not intend to participate - so just see what she does when you two intend to communicate together...

 

many people can't do what is right - give their attention to only what's in front of them. if they don't - they short change the person who is intending to communicate... even if being the listener. it's important... and should be top on the list for fully participating. divided energy feels that way = divided. some folks have made this such habit - they don't realize how little effort they fully give when participating.

 

i'm making a mental note that you two seem to think a solution is to talk MORE about everything. this old behavior has never brought change or results ---> time for anything new... that is why i don't suggest you talking more and more... just start doing. do or do not---> there is no try. talking is intent with no doing.

Edited April 27, 2011 by 2sunny

[NickFeek]

are you willing to try something new?

 

you are correct - just cuz you wish for it doesn't mean she wants it too - or is willing to do anything about it.

 

try this. since you always seem to talk together. let her speak. watch what she's doing... or not doing. say nothing. just expect to interact and say nothing.

 

see how that plays out. what is SHE saying? it's easier to pay attention when you don't expect to talk. are her words in alignment with what her body language is telling you - or is there a disconnect? is there contrast in what her body is doing? pay attention - it's a life lesson. is she facing you, interactive body language that is open and giving, willingly offering information and solutions to matters at hand - and fully participating? or is there divided energy she's giving you?

 

when she talks to you - does she give you her FULL FRONTAL attention and deep eye contact so you KNOW she's connected and participating? or is she moving around? distracted? doing several things at the same time as talking to you? is she present for the moment she's in or is she not giving you the time and attention it takes to participate in interacting fully with another person? she may not intend to participate - so just see what she does when you two intend to communicate together...

 

many people can't do what is right - give their attention to only what's in front of them. if they don't - they short change the person who is intending to communicate... even if being the listener. it's important... and should be top on the list for fully participating. divided energy feels that way = divided. some folks have made this such habit - they don't realize how little effort they fully give when participating.

 

i'm making a mental note that you two seem to think a solution is to talk MORE about everything. this old behavior has never brought change or results ---> time for anything new... that is why i don't suggest you talking more and more... just start doing. do or do not---> there is no try. talking is intent with no doing.

 

I have done this with her, and I'd say the energy comes in two distinct forms. Sometimes she's calm, facing me, speaking rationally but with emotion, looking right at me. Other times she's angry, anxious, defensive, not looking at me. So it depends on the mood of the day. We definitely make more progress during the calmer mode.

 

I think for a crisis, talking has to get to a point where the actions that need to be taken are decided upon and clearly laid out. I don't consider talking a solution, but it is one important step that can't be skipped over. Things are so delicate between us right now that just taking action without talking might result in a worse situation. But you're right that the action has to come soon, or it'll just be more & more talking ad infinitum.

[2sunny]

when listening... one can tell so much about the situation - that is unclear while intending to talk.

 

let her talk for a few weeks. just listen and do...

 

if need be - keep a pad and pen - write down everything she says. be aware of what she does tell you. these are the things that are important to her. it's like keeping a journal for her while she speaks.

 

refer to her list when wondering what she needs or is concerned about.

Edited April 27, 2011 by 2sunny

[NickFeek]

when listening... one can tell so much about the situation - that is unclear while intending to talk.

 

let her talk for a few weeks. just listen and do...

 

if need be - keep a pad and pen - write down everything she says. be aware of what she does tell you. these are the things that are important to her. it's like keeping a journal for her while she speaks.

 

refer to her list when wondering what she needs or is concerned about.

 

I like this a lot. I'm going to do it. I have been listening more than talking since the infidelity, but keeping the journal is a great idea.

[trippi1432]

I like this a lot. I'm going to do it. I have been listening more than talking since the infidelity, but keeping the journal is a great idea.

 

Very good, I was going to interject that we need to be mindful that the infidelity is the important thing to keep in perspective here and will cause some confusion and high emotions. Judging someone's body language during a time like that is like asking for validation. Not validation that she is making changes....she will be forever changed for the good or the worse over this.

 

Good call Nick. The journal is a good idea....it is also a good idea during this time not to be thinking so much about what you intend to say back while she is talking, but listen and then respond. My exH and I were horrible about that.

[NickFeek]

Very good, I was going to interject that we need to be mindful that the infidelity is the important thing to keep in perspective here and will cause some confusion and high emotions. Judging someone's body language during a time like that is like asking for validation. Not validation that she is making changes....she will be forever changed for the good or the worse over this.

 

Good call Nick. The journal is a good idea....it is also a good idea during this time not to be thinking so much about what you intend to say back while she is talking, but listen and then respond. My exH and I were horrible about that.

 

It took some getting used to, but it made sense to me from the start of this that her moods would vary wildly. I've been surprised and fortunate that she's not crying and/or enraged more often.

 

The initial document I read online, written by the betrayed spouse, said the same thing about listening, and added that the cheater shouldn't be thinking about or immediately expressing what HE needs, which is what I used to do all the time, in a very tit-for-tat way. I've found that I've been listened to much more earnestly after I've given her my full attention. Seems like a no-brainer, but easy to lose that.

[trippi1432]

Nick - what was the document you read online? I would be interested in reading it. Thanks.

[NickFeek]

Nick - what was the document you read online? I would be interested in reading it. Thanks.

 

I found it at wwwaftertheaffair.net. There's some good info and a summary on the site, but you have to buy the digital copy of the book to read it.

[trippi1432]

Thanks for the link...may help me stumble upon other info to help me with my trust factor.

 

In relation to your earlier posts, about finding happiness within as well as with someone else, that is very true. Given your timeline and the background for you and your wife...somewhere along the line, you both took different paths. It seems that you grew a lot during your years of on again/off again therapy. Learning more about yourself as fulfillment to make yourself happy.....while your wife stayed on a path of following her career...that very well may be her way to fulfill her own happiness as well.

 

Where the rub comes into play is that in following those paths, we tend to forget where they should merge in being happy with each other. That's what the love languages are for, helping to see what is important to each person to bring those paths back together....because honestly, when we only stay on our path...we forget what makes the other person happy sometimes.

[NickFeek]

That describes things so well that I really have nothing to add!

[2sunny]

how are changes going?

 

what has changed? i'm asking because more time keeps passing and change should be happening every day...

 

keep us updated.

[NickFeek]

Thank you for checking in! Small changes, mostly because of our kid/work schedule and her dental issue:

 

She came down from her rage & silence by yesterday morning. We had a brief talk, during which she apologized. And I told her she had nothing to apologize for, that this is a tough time & it's to be expected certain things will stir up her hurt & anger. She said, "I don't know what you expect me to say," then asked me, "What would you do with this information if you were in my shoes?" (The information being the details of my infidelity.) I told her I can't begin to imagine how it feels for her, though I'm getting a clearer & clearer sense every time she breaks down, but that I'd probably be like: this is a major crisis that deserves our full attention, and if that means we need to take off time from work & kids, we should. She accepted that, but did not comment on it. My guess is there's going to be this cycle of venting & relenting for a while, during which it's going to be up to ME to take action.

 

In the mean time, I've been meaning to write about another change. I'm recalling my time with the other woman, and of course all the time with my wife, and I'm beginning to realize that my mood & sense of security DO rely too much on feedback. I remember being on pins & needles waiting for my ex-lover to email or text me back over the smallest things. And I'm always sensitive about my wife not ever getting back to me until very late in the day. I've been trying to quell that more, and put those kinds of contacts out of my mind. But just when I think I have, I get positive feedback & realize immediately that I've secretly been waiting for it. I'm hoping this has more to do with my current emotionally vulnerable state, since normally I'm much more at ease, but I also think it's something to examine. Thoughts?

[2sunny]

=NickFeek;3370460]Thank you for checking in! Small changes, mostly because of our kid/work schedule and her dental issue:

 

She came down from her rage & silence by yesterday morning. We had a brief talk, during which she apologized. And I told her she had nothing to apologize for, that this is a tough time & it's to be expected certain things will stir up her hurt & anger. She said, "I don't know what you expect me to say," then asked me, "What would you do with this information if you were in my shoes?" (The information being the details of my infidelity.) I told her I can't begin to imagine how it feels for her, though I'm getting a clearer & clearer sense every time she breaks down, but that I'd probably be like: this is a major crisis that deserves our full attention, and if that means we need to take off time from work & kids, we should. She accepted that, but did not comment on it. My guess is there's going to be this cycle of venting & relenting for a while, during which it's going to be up to ME to take action.

 

she is pushing it back on you - meanwhile sticking her head in the sand - by working... she intends to tell you nothing= and do nothing. that is clear. is that enough for you?

 

In the mean time, I've been meaning to write about another change. I'm recalling my time with the other woman, and of course all the time with my wife, and I'm beginning to realize that my mood & sense of security DO rely too much on feedback. I remember being on pins & needles waiting for my ex-lover to email or text me back over the smallest things. And I'm always sensitive about my wife not ever getting back to me until very late in the day. I've been trying to quell that more, and put those kinds of contacts out of my mind. But just when I think I have, I get positive feedback & realize immediately that I've secretly been waiting for it. I'm hoping this has more to do with my current emotionally vulnerable state, since normally I'm much more at ease, but I also think it's something to examine. Thoughts?

 

 

 

makes sense. you were merely caught up in a woman that was willing to show you some attention - of which your wife didn't provide. still doesn't provide - and wants you to live with that being enough for you. is it enough? don't know. she KNOWS what you need - and she's not taking steps to participate on a level that she understands she deprived you from.

 

the OW was just a person who gave you what you were looking for... your wife has the ability to give you that - yet she refuses to!

 

you can't change your wife. you can only change YOU... by your actions and the choices you make.

 

what are you going to choose?

[NickFeek]

she is pushing it back on you - meanwhile sticking her head in the sand - by working... she intends to tell you nothing= and do nothing. that is clear. is that enough for you?

 

makes sense. you were merely caught up in a woman that was willing to show you some attention - of which your wife didn't provide. still doesn't provide - and wants you to live with that being enough for you. is it enough? don't know. she KNOWS what you need - and she's not taking steps to participate on a level that she understands she deprived you from.

 

the OW was just a person who gave you what you were looking for... your wife has the ability to give you that - yet she refuses to!

 

you can't change your wife. you can only change YOU... by your actions and the choices you make.

 

what are you going to choose?

 

I'll be honest, I think we both stick our head in the sand. We come together, exchange some important info, make tiny progress, and then fall back on our daily routine for comfort & familiarity. We both know the next conversation may be the "big one", and we're both a little scared. But I assure you it WILL happen. She could probably go on like this for quite a while, but fortunately I can't.

 

That bold up there is the whole problem in a nutshell. I can see why she'd refuse NOW, but I'm not sure why she USED TO refuse. I know I treated her poorly at times, so that was one reason. Beyond that, it's on her. This is why the next conversation is the big one. She has to give me a yes on this, not a no or I-don't-know. And her subsequent action or lack thereof will determine my choice.

[2sunny]

I'll be honest, I think we both stick our head in the sand. We come together, exchange some important info, make tiny progress, and then fall back on our daily routine for comfort & familiarity. We both know the next conversation may be the "big one", and we're both a little scared. But I assure you it WILL happen. She could probably go on like this for quite a while, but fortunately I can't.

 

That bold up there is the whole problem in a nutshell. I can see why she'd refuse NOW, but I'm not sure why she USED TO refuse. I know I treated her poorly at times, so that was one reason. Beyond that, it's on her. This is why the next conversation is the big one. She has to give me a yes on this, not a no or I-don't-know. And her subsequent action or lack thereof will determine my choice.

 

no she doesn't. she can go on and on like this forever with the understanding that you will accept it as "normal" as that is the evidence she has to work from.

 

she may never give you a yes. she may never make any effort to change a thing. she may never intend to connect with you on a deeper level... how can she? she doesn't understand what that means? it's like a foreign language to her. she simply isn't gonna go there- it's too scary and bring up things from her childhood that she doesn't want to face. you are slapping her in the face with things she's not going to look at.

 

you need to decide what's best for you. know she won't change. what is it you want from life knowing she won't change a thing?

[NickFeek]

no she doesn't. she can go on and on like this forever with the understanding that you will accept it as "normal" as that is the evidence she has to work from.

 

she may never give you a yes. she may never make any effort to change a thing. she may never intend to connect with you on a deeper level... how can she? she doesn't understand what that means? it's like a foreign language to her. she simply isn't gonna go there- it's too scary and bring up things from her childhood that she doesn't want to face. you are slapping her in the face with things she's not going to look at.

 

you need to decide what's best for you. know she won't change. what is it you want from life knowing she won't change a thing?

 

I know you can sense that I'm hesitant to render judgment, and I am. It's not that I don't know what the choices are. It's that I want to make sure all steps taken during this period are well thought out, respectful, and thorough, and include consideration of her state due to my infidelity. We don't want to look back on this & feel like we missed something, or weren't being honest, or rushed into a decision. Yes, there's definitely delay on my part as well, but it's delay with the intent to DO IT, and not to hide from it.

[2sunny]

since there's no action - expect it to look like complacency... which i'm sure you're familiar with.

 

and by the way - no judgement from my end... only evidence from your written words. no judgement... you will do whatever you choose. just pointing out the obvious from what you wrote.

 

just offering solutions and suggestions to move you into action - which is the only way to bring about change. whether you do that or not depends upon how much you get tired of the way you are living. you two talk - and talk - but take no action to change. people don't normally change unless they absolutely hate the way they feel. pain is a great motivator. you two may not be miserable at all... maybe just stagnant... some people like it that way... and leave it like that not knowing what could be on the other side.

 

you have some idea what's on the other side, though, since you did have some interaction with your OW. that sense of living has to be tugging at the possibilities that COULD be if you were to begin living again.

[NickFeek]

since there's no action - expect it to look like complacency... which i'm sure you're familiar with.

 

and by the way - no judgement from my end... only evidence from your written words. no judgement... you will do whatever you choose. just pointing out the obvious from what you wrote.

 

just offering solutions and suggestions to move you into action - which is the only way to bring about change. whether you do that or not depends upon how much you get tired of the way you are living. you two talk - and talk - but take no action to change. people don't normally change unless they absolutely hate the way they feel. pain is a great motivator. you two may not be miserable at all... maybe just stagnant... some people like it that way... and leave it like that not knowing what could be on the other side.

 

you have some idea what's on the other side, though, since you did have some interaction with your OW. that sense of living has to be tugging at the possibilities that COULD be if you were to begin living again.

 

Very familiar! It's what has created the quiet desperation.

 

I appreciate all you're saying & your non-judgment. I think for quite a while we were both okay with that stagnancy. I fear she still would be, but she'll need to answer that for herself. I KNOW I won't be. And it may have A LOT to do with the bolded sentence. That gave me the chills. I can probably attribute ALL of the recent events in our relationship to THAT FACT. I got a taste of what I'd been hungering for but didn't quite know it. And I just don't see how I can NOT have that in my life again. I'm not saying it can't be my wife, I'm just saying it now HAS to be SOMEONE.

[2sunny]

Very familiar! It's what has created the quiet desperation.

 

I appreciate all you're saying & your non-judgment. I think for quite a while we were both okay with that stagnancy. I fear she still would be, but she'll need to answer that for herself. I KNOW I won't be. And it may have A LOT to do with the bolded sentence. That gave me the chills. I can probably attribute ALL of the recent events in our relationship to THAT FACT. I got a taste of what I'd been hungering for but didn't quite know it. And I just don't see how I can NOT have that in my life again. I'm not saying it can't be my wife, I'm just saying it now HAS to be SOMEONE.

 

i've known people like this... and when they were honest with their spouse they sat them down and said...

 

"______ is what i need - and i would like it to be from YOU. IF it's not going to come from you - i will find that outside of our relationship, or i will choose to end this non-relationship that we have called marriage. are you going to give me that or not?"

 

that is honesty. that IS giving them a chance to offer to you - what you know you want for happiness. IF your wife isn't willing to provide that for you - how can she argue it... knowing that it keeps you from the happiness you deserve and expect?

 

it's honest. it's real. it gets your cards out on the table with clear, concise instructions about what she needs to do. IF she says no - then you have your answer.

 

no more playing that game. the game has played to the end... time to be honest and get into reality. if she offers nothing... you then understand fully well she isn't going to give effort to your basics needs for what happy looks like for you.