25 Years Together - Is it time to end it?

[NickFeek]

Nick!

 

Oh man, check this book out! I just found it as I was researching commitment phobia on LS! Wow, from the first pages, the description of Nice Guy fits you so well.

 

http://www.amazon.com/No-More-Mr-Nice-Guy/dp/0762415339/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1303836297&sr=8-1#reader_0762415339

 

Let me know what you think of this! I am really curious, because this is something I've struggled with myself.

 

I'll check it out and let you know what I think!

[NickFeek]

Have not had a chance to check out everyone's reading suggestions, but have looked at the following:

 

1. Sedona Method - This is something I have learned to do in the last 4-5 years to prevent anxiety & panic attacks, as well as depression. Instead of fighting to push the negative feeling away, just accept it. In almost every case it either settles in to someplace more appropriate & comfortable, or it dissipates.

 

2. No More Mr. Nice Guy - The description is good, but the first couple of reviews are great. They really explain the concept well. I don't think I fit exactly into this category. I've done my fair share of emotional pushing around too. But in the ways I DO fit, it describes it to a tee.

 

3. His Needs, Her Needs - Have you read or heard of the 5 Love Languages? It's similar to this, though not as detailed. That book has really helped me clarify what has been wrong in our marriage. Until today & this weekend, I had hopes that we could start to use that knowledge to repair things. Could still happen, I guess. In the review for THIS book, it said this:

Harley's approach to "affair-proofing" a marriage centers on a concept he labels "the love bank." Every husband and wife has a love bank that encounters both deposits and withdrawals from the opposite sex. A crucial distinction is made, however, in that deposits and withdrawals are made differently with men than they are with women. These differences are based upon the ten most felt needs of a relationship with the opposite gender. Husbands, in general, place the highest importance on the following five needs: sexual fulfillment, recreational companionship, an attractive spouse, domestic support, and admiration. Wives, in general, place the highest importance on the following five needs: affection, conversation, honesty and openness, financial support, and family commitment. Both genders express need for all ten items, but typically husbands and wives have contrasting priorities.

 

According to Harley, when an individual meets one or more of the partner's greatest felt needs, deposits are made into the partner's love bank. When one or more needs are not met, withdrawals are made from the partner's love bank. An affair occurs when a spouse finds fulfillment for a strongly felt need elsewhere because it is not being met satisfactorily within the marriage.

 

This is our experience in a nutshell. It's possible we BOTH have had nearly empty love banks.

[trippi1432]

Have not had a chance to check out everyone's reading suggestions, but have looked at the following:

 

1. Sedona Method - This is something I have learned to do in the last 4-5 years to prevent anxiety & panic attacks, as well as depression. Instead of fighting to push the negative feeling away, just accept it. In almost every case it either settles in to someplace more appropriate & comfortable, or it dissipates.

 

2. No More Mr. Nice Guy - The description is good, but the first couple of reviews are great. They really explain the concept well. I don't think I fit exactly into this category. I've done my fair share of emotional pushing around too. But in the ways I DO fit, it describes it to a tee.

 

3. His Needs, Her Needs - Have you read or heard of the 5 Love Languages? It's similar to this, though not as detailed. That book has really helped me clarify what has been wrong in our marriage. Until today & this weekend, I had hopes that we could start to use that knowledge to repair things. Could still happen, I guess. In the review for THIS book, it said this:

Harley's approach to "affair-proofing" a marriage centers on a concept he labels "the love bank." Every husband and wife has a love bank that encounters both deposits and withdrawals from the opposite sex. A crucial distinction is made, however, in that deposits and withdrawals are made differently with men than they are with women. These differences are based upon the ten most felt needs of a relationship with the opposite gender. Husbands, in general, place the highest importance on the following five needs: sexual fulfillment, recreational companionship, an attractive spouse, domestic support, and admiration. Wives, in general, place the highest importance on the following five needs: affection, conversation, honesty and openness, financial support, and family commitment. Both genders express need for all ten items, but typically husbands and wives have contrasting priorities.

 

According to Harley, when an individual meets one or more of the partner's greatest felt needs, deposits are made into the partner's love bank. When one or more needs are not met, withdrawals are made from the partner's love bank. An affair occurs when a spouse finds fulfillment for a strongly felt need elsewhere because it is not being met satisfactorily within the marriage.

 

This is our experience in a nutshell. It's possible we BOTH have had nearly empty love banks.

 

I would say it's highly probable instead of possible...how do you think people stay married for 50 years...they realize that they are not going to be happy with their partner 100% of the time. It's very easy to say someone does something to get on your nerves, but how much does that detract from your love for them...sometimes very little in comparison to what they mean to us when they meet our needs. It's even how marriages survive the worst bumps...like infidelity, being taken for granted...pressure.

 

Five Love Languages - Very insightful to what your needs are and how to relate when your needs are different from hers. I just recently picked up a copy of Five Love Languages for Singles....they even have a book for that by the same author.

 

And, since there seems to be some communication and conflict avoidance or resolution....don't know if you have read it (people claim they do but really don't)...John Gray, Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus.

[lovingwhatis]

Nick,

 

I gotta apologize. I know you have not been slacking on the reading and learning in your M, and clearly this whole experience is not a Surprise to you. To bring up more books is probably not very effective at this point.. Though I have to say that from your last response I am noticing that you have the tools but at times it seems you are reluctant to use them. Sedona is a good method in dealing with emotions for brainy people whose main mode of perception is the intellectual one. I am not one of those people as I am super emotional, but you sound (and correct me if I am wrong) as a person who relies more on their intellect than on their emotional intelligence. So, my suggestion was keep looking within and don't brush off the emotions as just something to understand. You know the drill, you've already done this in therapy. Last night when you were writing with 2sure you had all kinds of anger come up that later subsided. Where did it go? Its probably still there.

 

Its wonderful that your family and friends have been so supportive! Wow, that's just amazing! I am very glad for both of you.

 

I remember a friend of mine was pretty psyched about the 5 languages book. I just looked at it again to remind myself and I have to say I am not psyched. All these things, preferences, priorities, types of affection, that's just not love. Love is the essence of it all, it is undefinable, inexhaustible, cannot be transferred or earned, it just IS. There was another discussion on LS about this that I participated in.

 

Please don't get spun on this. Yes, you want different things, but this is not why you married, nor why you'll split. There is something underneath it all that's been buried.

 

Dig deeper.

[trippi1432]

The only thing I will say is that this does not explain why she has been so recalcitrant for at least 15 years.

 

Nick - Let's do a timeline.....

 

First five years...example of recalcitrant. What was the status of your relationship? What did she want at the time...what did you want? How did you compromise?

 

Year five - ten....example of recalcitrant. What was the status of your relationship? What did she want at the time...what did you want? How did you compromise?

 

Year ten - fifteen...example of recalcitrant. What was the status of your relationship? What did she want at the time...what did you want? How did you compromise?

 

Year fifteen - twenty....example of recalcitrant. What was the status of your relationship? What did she want at the time...what did you want? How did you compromise?

 

Year twenty - twenty-five...example of recalcitrant. What was the status of your relationship? What did she want at the time...what did you want? How did you compromise?

 

Take your time. Also...what is the family background for both of you....I think you stated that her parents were married...still and very close? What about your side?

[NickFeek]

I would say it's highly probable instead of possible...how do you think people stay married for 50 years...they realize that they are not going to be happy with their partner 100% of the time. It's very easy to say someone does something to get on your nerves, but how much does that detract from your love for them...sometimes very little in comparison to what they mean to us when they meet our needs. It's even how marriages survive the worst bumps...like infidelity, being taken for granted...pressure.

 

Five Love Languages - Very insightful to what your needs are and how to relate when your needs are different from hers. I just recently picked up a copy of Five Love Languages for Singles....they even have a book for that by the same author.

 

And, since there seems to be some communication and conflict avoidance or resolution....don't know if you have read it (people claim they do but really don't)...John Gray, Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus.

 

That first paragraph is very true. All those little nagging things mean nothing when you know your bank will get filled to at least some degree. It mitigates the things we all find that are annoying about people we love. When that fill-up is missing for way too long, everything else is magnified & pulsing with pain.

 

Yes, that guy has a whole series of 5 Love Languages books. Definitely worth looking into.

 

I'll put that on the list. Have heard of it for years but never thought much about it. Thanks.

[NickFeek]

Nick,

 

I gotta apologize. I know you have not been slacking on the reading and learning in your M, and clearly this whole experience is not a Surprise to you. To bring up more books is probably not very effective at this point.. Though I have to say that from your last response I am noticing that you have the tools but at times it seems you are reluctant to use them. Sedona is a good method in dealing with emotions for brainy people whose main mode of perception is the intellectual one. I am not one of those people as I am super emotional, but you sound (and correct me if I am wrong) as a person who relies more on their intellect than on their emotional intelligence. So, my suggestion was keep looking within and don't brush off the emotions as just something to understand. You know the drill, you've already done this in therapy. Last night when you were writing with 2sure you had all kinds of anger come up that later subsided. Where did it go? Its probably still there.

 

Its wonderful that your family and friends have been so supportive! Wow, that's just amazing! I am very glad for both of you.

 

I remember a friend of mine was pretty psyched about the 5 languages book. I just looked at it again to remind myself and I have to say I am not psyched. All these things, preferences, priorities, types of affection, that's just not love. Love is the essence of it all, it is undefinable, inexhaustible, cannot be transferred or earned, it just IS. There was another discussion on LS about this that I participated in.

 

Please don't get spun on this. Yes, you want different things, but this is not why you married, nor why you'll split. There is something underneath it all that's been buried.

 

Dig deeper.

 

Well yes, the anger comes & goes. And you're right, I do tend to rely on my intellect often. But I know that intellect can often act as a mask or buffer for emotions, and I'm in touch enough with those to know how to shut off my "thinking brain".

 

I think it's to each his own on the five languages. I grew up so incredibly confused about what love is, and heard so many vague la-la descriptions, that I have suffered as an adult from not knowing which end was up. There's something so clear about that book that for the first time in my 42 years I can honestly say I know why I've been unhappy. I know that there's no shame in the love you need being different from what your loved one is giving you. And I am/was psyched to find out more about my wife's needs. I hope it still comes to that.

[NickFeek]

Trippi...

 

Good question, but this is assuming I have enough brain cells left to remember all these moments! I'll give it a try.

 

First five years...She was a very rigid Irish Catholic girl, and I was a fairly rigid Catholic boy. We were BOTH recalcitrant back then! And very young. This was probably the best period for us. Yes, we both come from parents who have happy marriages. We have always both felt their marriages were not ones we'd want to emulate, but we respected them nonetheless. Both of our families are very close. I don't talk to my parents as much as she does, and that's mostly because I really started to move away from their mindset during therapy, and needed emotional distance.

 

Year five - ten....This is when we got married & didn't have sex for two years. She insisted we not tell anyone, and not ask anyone for help. I, being so hurt, young, confused, passive - agreed. I'm sure our problem could have been solved much sooner had we asked for help. This was also when she got depressed over her first boss verbally harassing her, and started therapy. I suggested we go to sex therapy - it was just out of the question for her. The compromise was we would work on sex at home. That did not last very long.

 

Year ten - fifteen...She continued therapy & I started therapy. When she & her therapist felt they had worked out the issues surrounding her harassment, the therapist suggested they go on to other matters that predate that. She refused & soon after quit therapy. I remember this sending chills up my spine. The compromise was that I desperately wanted to move to NYC, and she immediately said yes.

 

Year fifteen - twenty....Had two kids during this period. Settled in NYC. We were both doing poorly, but I took the cake. I expressed this to her, and she agreed to marriage counseling. It lasted only a few months, and we never addressed issues any further. I would research other ways to help our marriage. She would not read the research. I continued therapy. She tried individual therapy again for a few months, didn't like that her therapist was asking her to work on some tough & scary stuff, and quit. The compromise was we would get together more often to talk about things. This did not happen.

 

Year twenty - twenty-five...Had our third kid. She kept suggesting my individual therapy was putting distance between us. I did not quit right away, but once I felt I had turned an important corner or two, I did quit at her request. She said we would work on things together. We did not.

 

Now these are just examples, hopefully sticking to the theme. We had many good moments in there, many crises, lots of reconnecting & lots of fights, lots of mistakes on both sides & lots of support. But there was always this underlying malaise, and it's only recently I'm beginning to own up to the truth about why.

[soserious1]

Nick, Therapy can be a wonderful tool, however sometimes people make a conscious choice to only go but so far with it for a variety of reasons, one of which is that they fear they will totally fall apart during the process, for many

knowing what their issues are, being able to reach a certain level of functioning

ability is a good enough result for them.

 

Your wife might well feel that whatever her issues are, that she functions in the day to day well enough to suit her, further attempts to push her back into therapy aren't going to be perceived as being for her well being but rather an attempt to get her to want the same things you do.

 

She has the right to make the conscious decision to close the door firmly on her past ,just as you have the right to decide if you wish to continue in the marriage as it is or not.

[lovingwhatis]

Nick, lets agree to disagree on the love definition.

 

I see what you mean about her recalcitrance. It is really very unfortunate for both of you. But that's who she is at this moment, who she's been. Like Byron Katie says, when we argue with reality, we lose, but only 100% of the time... This is btw what my username refers to. Loving what Is. I know it is absolutely hard to fathom at this point, but yes, it is possible.

 

You ended the post with stating that you are beginning to see what the truth is. What is it? Sex incompatibility?

[trippi1432]

We had many good moments in there, many crises, lots of reconnecting & lots of fights, lots of mistakes on both sides & lots of support. .

 

Read the material Nick....somewhere in what you posted here is a marriage...well, everything you posted is a marriage...it's how you get through those times together that matter....that is unconditional love for each other....anything else is just love for yourself by standing alone.

[trippi1432]

Nick, lets agree to disagree on the love definition.

 

I see what you mean about her recalcitrance. It is really very unfortunate for both of you. But that's who she is at this moment, who she's been. Like Byron Katie says, when we argue with reality, we lose, but only 100% of the time... This is btw what my username refers to. Loving what Is. I know it is absolutely hard to fathom at this point, but yes, it is possible.

 

You ended the post with stating that you are beginning to see what the truth is. What is it? Sex incompatibility?

 

Thank you for bringing this back up lovingwhatis...what struck me about the recalcitrance is that it is definitive of being stubborn, resistant and even defiant of authority. There are not very many women these days that elude to being submissive unless they enjoy being enslaved. It is not a sexual hangup actually as many strong women do not have those tendencies to exert their leadership inside the home as well as out unless they find a man totally incapable or are used to single life.

 

What does make for a successful mix is when two people can co-exist and lead where one or the other is comfortable. For example, in a dance, men typically lead...I was called out once by an older man that I was not letting him lead...it was actually something that I had not noticed. Another time, I ordered a man's food for him....I was called out on it and in both cases it was right. It didn't appear to me to be right at the time as I felt that I knew him and was comfortable enough with him to do that...but in reality...is could appear to be emasculating...where I saw it as knowing him so well. Differences...even those minute ones can make both parties see each other differently.

 

But here also Nick is an example of the lovebank...even in the smallest of things....deduct a few points on both sides...his side, she didn't let me lead...her side, he is disappointed in me....and hope that the next actions are worth more points than got deducted.

[NickFeek]

Read the material Nick....somewhere in what you posted here is a marriage...well, everything you posted is a marriage...it's how you get through those times together that matter....that is unconditional love for each other....anything else is just love for yourself by standing alone.

 

There IS a marriage in there. We just never got it right. This might be our last chance.

[NickFeek]

Nick, Therapy can be a wonderful tool, however sometimes people make a conscious choice to only go but so far with it for a variety of reasons, one of which is that they fear they will totally fall apart during the process, for many

knowing what their issues are, being able to reach a certain level of functioning

ability is a good enough result for them.

 

Your wife might well feel that whatever her issues are, that she functions in the day to day well enough to suit her, further attempts to push her back into therapy aren't going to be perceived as being for her well being but rather an attempt to get her to want the same things you do.

 

She has the right to make the conscious decision to close the door firmly on her past ,just as you have the right to decide if you wish to continue in the marriage as it is or not.

 

That is a REALLY good point. And I think she has often seen my efforts to have her work out other deeper issues as torture. This brings up two questions for me: 1. What if she really is fine as she is, and it's just that we are incompatible? Or 2. What if those things she doesn't want to work on, whole she may be able to live with them, are what's damaging our relationship? Or can both be true?

[NickFeek]

Nick, lets agree to disagree on the love definition.

 

I see what you mean about her recalcitrance. It is really very unfortunate for both of you. But that's who she is at this moment, who she's been. Like Byron Katie says, when we argue with reality, we lose, but only 100% of the time... This is btw what my username refers to. Loving what Is. I know it is absolutely hard to fathom at this point, but yes, it is possible.

 

You ended the post with stating that you are beginning to see what the truth is. What is it? Sex incompatibility?

 

I wouldn't say 5 languages is a definition of love. It's a way to codify it, to act as a guide. And like any of these things, it only works for the people it works for. This doesn't take away from your idea of love, and I believe in that too. It was always just too overwhelming for me to process.

 

I love that line! Yes, I do think it's possible to love what is, but I think in our case, if this is who she is and will be, and for me to respect that, she has to play some other role in my life.

 

Yes, part of the truth is sex incompatibility. But what I was referring to was that I could finally see that we had spent our lives not understanding what each other needed, not speaking about it clearly, defending/getting hurt/resenting/closing down when these misunderstandings flared up, and then eventually pulling away into our own modes of dealing with things. Hers to maintain what in other circumstances might be a healthy status quo. Mine to work to find my true self & be comfortable with who I am, even if that person is not who she'd like me to be. Other truths too, I'm sure, but my brain is fried from cooking dinner & giving baths!

[NickFeek]

Thank you for bringing this back up lovingwhatis...what struck me about the recalcitrance is that it is definitive of being stubborn, resistant and even defiant of authority. There are not very many women these days that elude to being submissive unless they enjoy being enslaved. It is not a sexual hangup actually as many strong women do not have those tendencies to exert their leadership inside the home as well as out unless they find a man totally incapable or are used to single life.

 

What does make for a successful mix is when two people can co-exist and lead where one or the other is comfortable. For example, in a dance, men typically lead...I was called out once by an older man that I was not letting him lead...it was actually something that I had not noticed. Another time, I ordered a man's food for him....I was called out on it and in both cases it was right. It didn't appear to me to be right at the time as I felt that I knew him and was comfortable enough with him to do that...but in reality...is could appear to be emasculating...where I saw it as knowing him so well. Differences...even those minute ones can make both parties see each other differently.

 

But here also Nick is an example of the lovebank...even in the smallest of things....deduct a few points on both sides...his side, she didn't let me lead...her side, he is disappointed in me....and hope that the next actions are worth more points than got deducted.

 

What I've always liked about our marriage is that we've more or less chosen the areas we're comfortable leading in. And we respect those areas. UNFORTUNATELY there are exceptions to that, and those exceptions - sex, quality time, work/life balance, mental health - have caused us no end of harm. I fell in love with her in part because she's such a strong woman, but you're right that this has to be accompanied by us fulfilling certain core love needs. Had she been able to be strong in general but vulnerable with me, I would not be on this forum. But her strength of will carries straight through to her core, and that in my mind is incompatible with ANY interpersonal relationship. It remains to be seen if we can find better ways to fill the love banks, but it won't happen under our current or past paradigm.

[lovingwhatis]

That IS a really good point, soserious! I know for me throughout my life I have been very reluctant towards many people's attempts at telling me what to do, especially when it comes to therapy and really deep stuff. Of course friends' suggestions and gentle reminders I've heeded, but in general I have been adamant in it being on my terms, on my timing. And also because I have issues with authority too I've perceived therapists as a tending to be an authority (they don't have to be but they take themselves as that) I have flat out called out the two therapists I have worked with. Recently I interviewed one and she went swinging from the first session, and I felt put off by that. And trust me, I take healing to heart. But it is amazing how timing works. I am a firm believer in the right timing of things.

 

With that said, Nick, I hear where you are at. There is a point of breaking for you, and you are slowly reaching it. The way you expressed it was very poignant, maybe she may have to shift her role in your life. Because she'll always be the mother of your children, that's already set..

 

It is great that you have so many things that you Have realized and improved on within your R! I tell you, this is something to be glad about. You have actively participated in your M, and refused to back down, when you could have easily at many junctions done so. From the way you describe it, there are definitely positives and negatives, and while I don't have the answer for you regarding the future, I just wanted to congratulate you for making it this far and both being strong to remain in your R and keep going to bat.

 

Nick, Therapy can be a wonderful tool, however sometimes people make a conscious choice to only go but so far with it for a variety of reasons, one of which is that they fear they will totally fall apart during the process, for many

knowing what their issues are, being able to reach a certain level of functioning

ability is a good enough result for them.

 

Your wife might well feel that whatever her issues are, that she functions in the day to day well enough to suit her, further attempts to push her back into therapy aren't going to be perceived as being for her well being but rather an attempt to get her to want the same things you do.

 

She has the right to make the conscious decision to close the door firmly on her past ,just as you have the right to decide if you wish to continue in the marriage as it is or not.

[NickFeek]

Thank you, Lovingwhatis. I have been kicking myself for years because I learned/self-taught over a decade ago how to be this way in my career, and soon after in my friendships & with extended family. I knew all this time I was falling short at learning the same things in my relationship. You can bet that there were plenty of times over the decades when I have NOT actively participated, when I ran scared & retreated into old patterns, or pushed forward wildly and exacerbated things - part of that learned helplessness & general fear/cowardice. Sad that it took this crisis & my messing up for me to finally see/feel how to approach a R in the same way I could my career & other passions. Better late than never, though it may be too late. But I won't stop going to bat until the last pitch is thrown - whichever one of us throws it! And whatever may come next I'm confident I will be healthier, and can only hope the same for her.

[lovingwhatis]

Thank you, Lovingwhatis. I have been kicking myself for years because I learned/self-taught over a decade ago how to be this way in my career, and soon after in my friendships & with extended family. I knew all this time I was falling short at learning the same things in my relationship. You can bet that there were plenty of times over the decades when I have NOT actively participated, when I ran scared & retreated into old patterns, or pushed forward wildly and exacerbated things - part of that learned helplessness & general fear/cowardice. Sad that it took this crisis & my messing up for me to finally see/feel how to approach a R in the same way I could my career & other passions. Better late than never, though it may be too late. But I won't stop going to bat until the last pitch is thrown - whichever one of us throws it! And whatever may come next I'm confident I will be healthier, and can only hope the same for her.

 

Nick, I sincerely wish that for both of you! Hugs.

[trippi1432]

What I've always liked about our marriage is that we've more or less chosen the areas we're comfortable leading in. And we respect those areas. UNFORTUNATELY there are exceptions to that, and those exceptions - sex, quality time, work/life balance, mental health - have caused us no end of harm. I fell in love with her in part because she's such a strong woman, but you're right that this has to be accompanied by us fulfilling certain core love needs. Had she been able to be strong in general but vulnerable with me, I would not be on this forum. But her strength of will carries straight through to her core, and that in my mind is incompatible with ANY interpersonal relationship. It remains to be seen if we can find better ways to fill the love banks, but it won't happen under our current or past paradigm.

 

You have already stated 3 of your love languages there Nick...what are hers?

 

Physical Touch = sex

quality time = work/life balance,

Words of Affirmation = mental health

 

As to the bolded part....make it safe for her to be vulnerable by knowing her love languages as well as your own.

 

It's obviously been another hard night...but you know it's going to be for a while. That emotional connection, however fragile you may have thought it was, has been ruptured. Remember, she may not have seen the train on the tracks because you were not both communicating what you both needed...nor even known it yourselves. You are both in a learning phase now.

[trippi1432]

I remember a friend of mine was pretty psyched about the 5 languages book. I just looked at it again to remind myself and I have to say I am not psyched. All these things, preferences, priorities, types of affection, that's just not love. Love is the essence of it all, it is undefinable, inexhaustible, cannot be transferred or earned, it just IS. There was another discussion on LS about this that I participated in.

 

Please don't get spun on this. Yes, you want different things, but this is not why you married, nor why you'll split. There is something underneath it all that's been buried.

 

Dig deeper.

 

Actually lovingwhatis, preferences, priorities, types of affection..that is love. People cannot live on pure emotion alone...it would equate to euphoria. Passion is euphoria...that is basically what you are describing and while we can have a passionate nature, it is not a constant state. Our environment affects us both positively and negatively. Knowing ourselves is important....and I am interested in the feedback you have posted personally for my current state.

 

But when two people are sharing a life together, love, children, home, job, security....love alone in the emotional realm of things will not suffice. A marriage is about sharing...responsibility, hopes, dreams, desires, outlooks, a future...it's not just about the now...it's not just about adjusting our center....but about adjusting our lives and moving through the ebb and flow of constant change.

[2sunny]

the four agreements by ruiz was something i suggested to give you an idea of how to communicate without empty words. to be specific, to not take things personally, to not be making assumptions and by doing your best. simple, quick read = life changing. another great book by him is the voice of knowledge. both are awesome and help with living a happy, simple life.

[NickFeek]

You have already stated 3 of your love languages there Nick...what are hers?

 

Physical Touch = sex

quality time = work/life balance,

Words of Affirmation = mental health

 

As to the bolded part....make it safe for her to be vulnerable by knowing her love languages as well as your own.

 

It's obviously been another hard night...but you know it's going to be for a while. That emotional connection, however fragile you may have thought it was, has been ruptured. Remember, she may not have seen the train on the tracks because you were not both communicating what you both needed...nor even known it yourselves. You are both in a learning phase now.

 

You nailed my top three, and in the correct order! I have asked her to be specific about her languages. She said she'd read the rest of the book & get back to me. That was four weeks ago. I really do want to know, because like you said I need to make it safe for her to be vulnerable, and giving her the love she needs is one part of that. I admit I haven't always made it safe, and certainly not with what I did back in September.

 

Really well put that she may not have seen the train on the tracks. Even though I was telling her repeatedly how poorly I was doing (that's a paraphrase of many ways I told her), that doesn't mean she was getting the severity of what I was saying. And I can say now that we ARE finally on the same track. It hurts to know how much she's hurting, but on another level it feels right, and more true than what was before.

[NickFeek]

Actually lovingwhatis, preferences, priorities, types of affection..that is love. People cannot live on pure emotion alone...it would equate to euphoria. Passion is euphoria...that is basically what you are describing and while we can have a passionate nature, it is not a constant state. Our environment affects us both positively and negatively. Knowing ourselves is important....and I am interested in the feedback you have posted personally for my current state.

 

But when two people are sharing a life together, love, children, home, job, security....love alone in the emotional realm of things will not suffice. A marriage is about sharing...responsibility, hopes, dreams, desires, outlooks, a future...it's not just about the now...it's not just about adjusting our center....but about adjusting our lives and moving through the ebb and flow of constant change.

 

No one could have said that better. Beautifully written.

 

If you think of love as a work of art, as with any type of art the craft has to be there. The better an artist is at his/her craft, the more open the conduit is for the pure expression to flow through. That first burst of artistic expression in a person is akin to the passionate start of a brand new love. BUT THEN the hard work of learning the actual craft has to kick in, to make that artistic skill sustainable & repeatable, out of which should come more passion. Freedom within form. We were flying blindly on emotion for too long, and got completely lost & ungrounded. This is our course correction, our time to learn the real craft of love. If we're both up for it.

[NickFeek]

the four agreements by ruiz was something i suggested to give you an idea of how to communicate without empty words. to be specific, to not take things personally, to not be making assumptions and by doing your best. simple, quick read = life changing. another great book by him is the voice of knowledge. both are awesome and help with living a happy, simple life.

 

I've heard great things about The Four Agreements. I'm putting it on my Amazon list now. I'll take a look at the other one too. Thanks.