25 Years Together - Is it time to end it?

[NickFeek]

Granted, that's happy in conjunction with the sadness my wife & kids will feel (and me too). But I'm still looking forward to what that might feel like.

[2sunny]

she's definitely let you know that the only way to stay together is if you stay - and allow her to work all the time. she's married to her job more than you and the kids.

 

she's made that perfectly clear. accept it - move forward knowing it's simply not enough to feel that she's a partner in the marriage.

 

allow her to understand - by telling her - that you understand she has made her choice - and that you have choices too - and to be married to an absent wife who CHOOSES to work THAT much - and be absent in the home - doesn't work for you.

 

then she will see how she affects the family by NOT being there.

 

you have a right to live - to be happy - stop pretending like what she offers is enough for you to be happy. stop pretending she's going to change. she won't - she proved that with her evidence. now - YOU have choices... to begin living knowing she's not going to participate - is key.

 

once you start moving forward she will see how much work has controlled her whole life.

 

you can live again. get busy...

[NickFeek]

I hope she does see that, and maybe realizes what she's losing/lost because of this. She unfortunately has a stable of people who tell her that it's okay to work as much as she is, and also say that I need to grow up and accept that this is the real world. Now they don't know the whole story, and how negatively her work has affected us, but it's still short-sighted & insulting. I reject any argument that paints the other side in such a bad light - and to say that my opinion is based on me needing to "grow up" just completely takes credence out of their stance for me. I have only ever talked about BALANCE, which to me should be the TRUE reality.

 

I am very ready to get busy!

[2sunny]

I hope she does see that, and maybe realizes what she's losing/lost because of this. She unfortunately has a stable of people who tell her that it's okay to work as much as she is, and also say that I need to grow up and accept that this is the real world. Now they don't know the whole story, and how negatively her work has affected us, but it's still short-sighted & insulting. I reject any argument that paints the other side in such a bad light - and to say that my opinion is based on me needing to "grow up" just completely takes credence out of their stance for me. I have only ever talked about BALANCE, which to me should be the TRUE reality.

 

I am very ready to get busy!

 

to continue standing there trying to make the ship turn direction isn't productive - her ship sailed long ago - you've waited for her ship to come back and pick you up - she's saying that she's long gone...never to return to port. her ship isn't about to coincide with getting you on board - she's riding her ship without you. your ship is waiting... a new ship with lots of potential... all you have to do is get on your own ship.

 

watching her ship expecting it to pick you up is:

you looking back at her -------> LOOK FORWARD!

 

call her now and tell her what reality IS. no need to wait now... she has made her intentions known - accept it - move forward.

[NickFeek]

That's part of what we talked about, so she knows how I feel. And I'm clear on how she feels. The joke is if I called her now I'd only get her voicemail. She's the only person I know who could be in the office all day and still be unreachable, either via phone or email.

[2sunny]

That's part of what we talked about, so she knows how I feel. And I'm clear on how she feels. The joke is if I called her now I'd only get her voicemail. She's the only person I know who could be in the office all day and still be unreachable, either via phone or email.

 

that's BS! she's just too busy for you. i'd bet money others that call her wouldn't always get her vm - and i bet she returns emails from folks she INTERESTED in corresponding with.

 

just look at her sent box... yep - i'm sure there is plenty of evidence that she corresponds with "others" all day long... just "others" she holds as a bigger priority than you. that says it all right there.

[NickFeek]

Well there's no question most of her day is spent responding to work related messages. And I actually don't have a problem with that side of it. It's the fact that she supposedly can't find 5 MINUTES (or less even) in her day to respond to me that I think is suspicious. And that's not just on her busiest days - it's almost every day.

[2sunny]

Well there's no question most of her day is spent responding to work related messages. And I actually don't have a problem with that side of it. It's the fact that she supposedly can't find 5 MINUTES (or less even) in her day to respond to me that I think is suspicious. And that's not just on her busiest days - it's almost every day.

 

that's BS! i am in contact regularly with the BUSIEST people - they always find a few minutes for the people in their lives that ARE important to them.

 

heck, my friends fly all over the place, CEO's, COO's, sales people, BUSY people, Judges - they FIND TIME!

 

they keep in constant contact with people that THEY VALUE!

 

THAT alone tells you EVERYTHING you don't want to admit to yourself!

 

she doesn't include YOU - because YOU are not her priority! it's a fact! NOONE is TOO busy to keep in contact with people they CHOOSE to keep in touch with. SHE chooses to keep you out of her life ON PURPOSE!

[lovingwhatis]

Wow, sunny, you are on fire today!

 

Nick, I am sorry, friend. It seems you are getting some very particular communication from her that she isn't interested in working on the M. The sad part is that maybe knowing this 6 months ago you would have saved yourself the suffering. Maybe she was trying to punish you like that? I don't know... I truly hope not. I suppose a lot has shifted in her rhetoric since then.

 

One q, during separation, will the kids remain with her? If yes, I can't imagine her not changing her work schedule. That would be hurtful to the children. I guess if she does change her schedule then, it would mean that sunny has been right on from the beginning...

 

As much as possible, I hope you don't take this personally, and really do find the healing and strength to go after what you really want in your life. It is totally totally possible. Don't let the grief of the moment fool you into thinking that it will not happen.

 

 

 

that's BS! she's just too busy for you. i'd bet money others that call her wouldn't always get her vm - and i bet she returns emails from folks she INTERESTED in corresponding with.

 

just look at her sent box... yep - i'm sure there is plenty of evidence that she corresponds with "others" all day long... just "others" she holds as a bigger priority than you. that says it all right there.

[NickFeek]

that's BS! i am in contact regularly with the BUSIEST people - they always find a few minutes for the people in their lives that ARE important to them.

 

heck, my friends fly all over the place, CEO's, COO's, sales people, BUSY people, Judges - they FIND TIME!

 

they keep in constant contact with people that THEY VALUE!

 

THAT alone tells you EVERYTHING you don't want to admit to yourself!

 

she doesn't include YOU - because YOU are not her priority! it's a fact! NOONE is TOO busy to keep in contact with people they CHOOSE to keep in touch with. SHE chooses to keep you out of her life ON PURPOSE!

 

It's SO GOOD to hear someone else say that. I have felt in my gut that there's NO REASON she couldn't check in now & then, answer my emails/questions, and generally just make me feel like she WANTS to stay in contact with me. And all I get is the answer that she's so incredibly busy that she doesn't even have one moment. She'll pop her head out once every two weeks & show signs of being the way I'd want her to be, but all in all it's exactly what your last paragraph says - and if that's not her conscious intention that's still how it feels, which is what counts.

[NickFeek]

Wow, sunny, you are on fire today!

 

Nick, I am sorry, friend. It seems you are getting some very particular communication from her that she isn't interested in working on the M. The sad part is that maybe knowing this 6 months ago you would have saved yourself the suffering. Maybe she was trying to punish you like that? I don't know... I truly hope not. I suppose a lot has shifted in her rhetoric since then.

 

One q, during separation, will the kids remain with her? If yes, I can't imagine her not changing her work schedule. That would be hurtful to the children. I guess if she does change her schedule then, it would mean that sunny has been right on from the beginning...

 

As much as possible, I hope you don't take this personally, and really do find the healing and strength to go after what you really want in your life. It is totally totally possible. Don't let the grief of the moment fool you into thinking that it will not happen.

 

No, I wouldn't say she was trying to punish me. I think it was a combination of both of us trying to hold things together, me wanting to atone for my behavior & do what I could to make things work, and her really not knowing how in the world to handle all this. What I think her stance has been the same this whole time, and we were both in our own ways hoping and trying to change her mind on those core issues. Now that what we both consider sufficient processing time has passed, and it's clear she's no further towards softening, I guess our hopes were in vain.

 

That is an excellent question. According to her, she would move back home (where we're originally from, I mean, near her family) & cut down to three days a week. This hurts for two reasons: 1. She's moving the kids away from me & away from their lives; and 2. After all of my pleading for her to work less, she'd only consider doing it AFTER she leaves me. I already told her the kid thing is not a decision she can make unilaterally, and I will fight her on that. She wants her family's support system, which I understand. But I have been OUR family's support system, and have done it well, and would still do that. AND why she thinks it would be better to disrupt their lives so much is just scary to me.

 

Now she went back a bit on that stance (I'm sure she's figuring this out as she goes, just as I am, so no judgment here), and said she doesn't want to give up a job she's put so much into. I respect that more, because at least that makes all her toil & time away worthwhile for SOME reason beyond the money. And that would also mean she'd stay in the area & the kids could stay in their school and I could be with them, etc. etc. I'm going to do my best to convince her to take this road. I still plan to be JUST as available for the kids as I am now.

 

Thank you, and I think overall I'm doing okay on that score. I know from my past that I could be doing MUCH worse . It's still all very scary & hurtful, and I struggle with the idea that I'm being selfish by wanting to find more happiness. But I can't imagine living the way I was anymore (and I've made that clear to her), and I do see lots of reasons to be optimistic too.

[2sunny]

so - you now know that she IS willing to change- just not for YOU.

 

and most courts will put into effect a clause that won't allow her to take them out of the COUNTY of jurisdiction without the consent of the other parent. so i would definitely put that in any paperwork you may consider filing.

 

you could ask for full time physical custody - knowing that she works way too much to care for them in a reasonable day to day life.

 

and yes, she will understand that she will have to pay you child support for having them more than IF she didn't at least have them 50% of the time.

 

so- her earning money - if it's more money than you earn - works against her- and to your benefit - in most areas.

 

since she hasn't been WILLING to adjust and participate more - shows you that she doesn't hold her family life as a priority over her work life. know that - and start living in a way that shows her that you accept it. begin planning things with your kids without her. let her see that you are busy DOING things in life without her... and that SHE has chosen this path - but that you guys are capable of happiness by going on. get out to museums, movies, camping, classes, picnics in the park, sports and events happening locally. let your kids see that life can be fun and busy even if she chooses not to be present.

 

it's a good way of them transitioning to life being different - but still good.

 

plan something with the kids for tonight! get busy NOW! today! go for a walk or fly a kite, or throw the frisbee/baseball/football in a park - get them involved today. can you do that?

[NickFeek]

so - you now know that she IS willing to change- just not for YOU.

 

and most courts will put into effect a clause that won't allow her to take them out of the COUNTY of jurisdiction without the consent of the other parent. so i would definitely put that in any paperwork you may consider filing.

 

you could ask for full time physical custody - knowing that she works way too much to care for them in a reasonable day to day life.

 

and yes, she will understand that she will have to pay you child support for having them more than IF she didn't at least have them 50% of the time.

 

so- her earning money - if it's more money than you earn - works against her- and to your benefit - in most areas.

 

since she hasn't been WILLING to adjust and participate more - shows you that she doesn't hold her family life as a priority over her work life. know that - and start living in a way that shows her that you accept it. begin planning things with your kids without her. let her see that you are busy DOING things in life without her... and that SHE has chosen this path - but that you guys are capable of happiness by going on. get out to museums, movies, camping, classes, picnics in the park, sports and events happening locally. let your kids see that life can be fun and busy even if she chooses not to be present.

 

it's a good way of them transitioning to life being different - but still good.

 

plan something with the kids for tonight! get busy NOW! today! go for a walk or fly a kite, or throw the frisbee/baseball/football in a park - get them involved today. can you do that?

 

Yes, not for me, to put it bluntly. Although it's possible she'll end up not making that change, which while it reinforces what was wrong to begin with, I'd be fine with.

 

I was pretty sure most courts had that clause. I really hope it doesn't come to that, that she'll see reason, but I'll certainly use that law if need be.

 

What's funny is she assumed (and I also assumed) that a lot of our marital problems were because I spent so much time with the kids. Having really made things so clear in recent months - separated out the issues - I can say without a doubt that it's not the kids, and that I WOULD be fine having physical custody. I'd imagine a court/judge might see that I do have more ability to care for them on a daily basis.

 

I completely get your point. What's both good and sad is that I've been doing things with the kids without her for a while, and they're already used to that. So it may not be much of a transition for them. We were all out together the other day, actually. Because I work Tues-Sat, I have Mondays off to do things with them after school every week. If we can avoid her moving out of state, things could still be quite good for the kids. Thank you for the advice.

[lovingwhatis]

Wow, so yes she is capable of change, but not for you. I am sorry, that sucks... We've spent so much time on this thread discussing the process of change both for you and for her, and it comes down to simply "she doesn't want to do it". I am a bit baffled by that.

 

Regarding the kids, that would be terrible for you if she decides to leave the state. I trust it won't come to that. And yes, I already saw you as the primary caretaker, considering that she works for most of the waking hours of the children. I don't have kids myself, so to say that I understand how you are exactly feeling about this would be not true. I trust that you will be able find that joy within yourself and with them.

 

No, I wouldn't say she was trying to punish me. I think it was a combination of both of us trying to hold things together, me wanting to atone for my behavior & do what I could to make things work, and her really not knowing how in the world to handle all this. What I think her stance has been the same this whole time, and we were both in our own ways hoping and trying to change her mind on those core issues. Now that what we both consider sufficient processing time has passed, and it's clear she's no further towards softening, I guess our hopes were in vain.

 

That is an excellent question. According to her, she would move back home (where we're originally from, I mean, near her family) & cut down to three days a week. This hurts for two reasons: 1. She's moving the kids away from me & away from their lives; and 2. After all of my pleading for her to work less, she'd only consider doing it AFTER she leaves me. I already told her the kid thing is not a decision she can make unilaterally, and I will fight her on that. She wants her family's support system, which I understand. But I have been OUR family's support system, and have done it well, and would still do that. AND why she thinks it would be better to disrupt their lives so much is just scary to me.

 

Now she went back a bit on that stance (I'm sure she's figuring this out as she goes, just as I am, so no judgment here), and said she doesn't want to give up a job she's put so much into. I respect that more, because at least that makes all her toil & time away worthwhile for SOME reason beyond the money. And that would also mean she'd stay in the area & the kids could stay in their school and I could be with them, etc. etc. I'm going to do my best to convince her to take this road. I still plan to be JUST as available for the kids as I am now.

 

Thank you, and I think overall I'm doing okay on that score. I know from my past that I could be doing MUCH worse . It's still all very scary & hurtful, and I struggle with the idea that I'm being selfish by wanting to find more happiness. But I can't imagine living the way I was anymore (and I've made that clear to her), and I do see lots of reasons to be optimistic too.

[NickFeek]

Wow, so yes she is capable of change, but not for you. I am sorry, that sucks... We've spent so much time on this thread discussing the process of change both for you and for her, and it comes down to simply "she doesn't want to do it". I am a bit baffled by that.

 

Regarding the kids, that would be terrible for you if she decides to leave the state. I trust it won't come to that. And yes, I already saw you as the primary caretaker, considering that she works for most of the waking hours of the children. I don't have kids myself, so to say that I understand how you are exactly feeling about this would be not true. I trust that you will be able find that joy within yourself and with them.

 

I'm baffled too. I know she's hurt, and badly, by what I did, but it seems like she thinks she has no capacity to feel differently eventually, and to forgive & move on. Part of me chalks it up to my big mistake. The other part to her personality. But NEITHER of those reasons seems to be enough to justify throwing it all out. It has to also be because she wants to.

 

Thank you. Yes, it's going to be bittersweet for a long time most likely, but once it's established that we can maintain our parent/children relationship mostly intact, all of our minds will be at ease. And that can only happen if she keeps them local.

[2sunny]

I'm baffled too. I know she's hurt, and badly, by what I did, but it seems like she thinks she has no capacity to feel differently eventually, and to forgive & move on. Part of me chalks it up to my big mistake. The other part to her personality. But NEITHER of those reasons seems to be enough to justify throwing it all out. It has to also be because she wants to.

 

Thank you. Yes, it's going to be bittersweet for a long time most likely, but once it's established that we can maintain our parent/children relationship mostly intact, all of our minds will be at ease. And that can only happen if she keeps them local.

 

i'm curious - remind me - did she work a ton of hours before you started your distraction with your OW?

[2sunny]

i still see you playing this role that's old and familiar - waiting to "see" what she is or isn't going to do - basing YOUR happiness on that.

 

you hand her so much power that way- stop waiting for her... start doing what you want to.

[NickFeek]

i'm curious - remind me - did she work a ton of hours before you started your distraction with your OW?

 

Yes, I would say her work pattern has been the same for many years, can't even remember how long. How she is now is how she's been for the longest time.

[NickFeek]

i still see you playing this role that's old and familiar - waiting to "see" what she is or isn't going to do - basing YOUR happiness on that.

 

you hand her so much power that way- stop waiting for her... start doing what you want to.

 

That is SO true. It's partly from habit, partly from fear, partly from still wanting to respect her needs and give her the benefit of the doubt. I'm only now BARELY starting to imagine what it would be like to make interpersonal decisions without her consent or her aura hanging over me.

[2sunny]

Yes, I would say her work pattern has been the same for many years, can't even remember how long. How she is now is how she's been for the longest time.

 

so - now she finds a reason to blame you... when she's been absent for a looooong time... she hasn't participated in your M. you begged her to participate - still no action from her... so you found some other sandbox with someone to play with - and boom...

 

then she gets mad?

 

uhem, she had her chance - she told you many times over and over - i don't intend to play with you.

 

her wanting to be mad because she didn't play- and you found a person to play with is partially HER fault for NOT playing with you while she had the chance and CHOSE not to. she still acts like you shouldn't have feelings of wanting to play in life. just sit there and do nothing while i work my life away and ignore you = that's not good enough for a HEALTHY marriage.

 

i'm not saying what you did was right, but stop dwelling on it and move forward knowing that even now = she still isn't gonna play - even though she knows she purposely intends NOT TO PLAY WITH YOU.

[NickFeek]

so - now she finds a reason to blame you... when she's been absent for a looooong time... she hasn't participated in your M. you begged her to participate - still no action from her... so you found some other sandbox with someone to play with - and boom...

 

then she gets mad?

 

uhem, she had her chance - she told you many times over and over - i don't intend to play with you.

 

her wanting to be mad because she didn't play- and you found a person to play with is partially HER fault for NOT playing with you while she had the chance and CHOSE not to. she still acts like you shouldn't have feelings of wanting to play in life. just sit there and do nothing while i work my life away and ignore you = that's not good enough for a HEALTHY marriage.

 

i'm not saying what you did was right, but stop dwelling on it and move forward knowing that even now = she still isn't gonna play - even though she knows she purposely intends NOT TO PLAY WITH YOU.

 

I agree, and I've made it clear to her that I would NEVER say what I did was right, nor would I try to justify it. But it did come from somewhere, however bad my decision was. And your description above is EXACTLY where it came from. Hurts a lot to think she never clued into this even long BEFORE I ever met or befriended this OW. And I have to say I DID mention & beg & plead a whole lot.

 

She still has a right to be mad, and I still regret what I've done. But if she can't find a way to move on from the anger and somehow start to forgive, as well as take into account the WHOLE picture, then I can't agree to capitulate to whatever her needs are in this scenario.

[2sunny]

so - coming from the sandbox theory now

 

explain to her that since she chose not to play in your sandbox (hers is work, work, work only!) and you aren't allowed to play in hers...

 

it's time to acknowledge that the play time won't happen - and it's time to take the facts for what they are and move forward.

 

the two worlds are no longer connecting - and don't intend to connect at all - and it's time for you to take your world and build a new sandbox...inviting friends and family into your new world so that you can understand what happy looks like - knowing full well that her sandbox will NEVER be anywhere but in her working world and she won't let you go there.

[soserious1]

I agree, and I've made it clear to her that I would NEVER say what I did was right, nor would I try to justify it. But it did come from somewhere, however bad my decision was. And your description above is EXACTLY where it came from. Hurts a lot to think she never clued into this even long BEFORE I ever met or befriended this OW. And I have to say I DID mention & beg & plead a whole lot.

 

She still has a right to be mad, and I still regret what I've done. But if she can't find a way to move on from the anger and somehow start to forgive, as well as take into account the WHOLE picture, then I can't agree to capitulate to whatever her needs are in this scenario.

 

Jesus..Nick can you just hurry the hell up, throw your wife and her clothing out on the curb and sue her for every dime she's got so vou and 2sunny can go out and rent a room? lol

[NickFeek]

so - coming from the sandbox theory now

 

explain to her that since she chose not to play in your sandbox (hers is work, work, work only!) and you aren't allowed to play in hers...

 

it's time to acknowledge that the play time won't happen - and it's time to take the facts for what they are and move forward.

 

the two worlds are no longer connecting - and don't intend to connect at all - and it's time for you to take your world and build a new sandbox...inviting friends and family into your new world so that you can understand what happy looks like - knowing full well that her sandbox will NEVER be anywhere but in her working world and she won't let you go there.

 

Gotta love the sandbox theory!

 

I am absolutely going to explain that to her next time we talk. It never seemed like the right time after my infidelity, because it would have sounded to her like an excuse. But once we unseal this deal, there's no reason I can't say it. I don't have any reason to be especially vindictive, but I hope it may help her someday to know the truth.

[2sunny]

Jesus..Nick can you just hurry the hell up, throw your wife and her clothing out on the curb and sue her for every dime she's got so vou and 2sunny can go out and rent a room? lol

 

me? ummm, nope...