25 Years Together - Is it time to end it?

[NickFeek]

Sorry, that last one was in response to trippi, and this one is in response to 2sunny.

 

I do tend to want to take on all the responsibility, because I feel that then things are in my control and I'm able to fix them. Unfortunately we all know you can't control or fix someone else, and that's where the real conflict & dilemma are. I'd love to find a way to take care of myself without feeling like I'm being selfish.

 

no sex for two years of marriage? THAT is concerning and raises a major red flag.

Yes, I think those first two years warped us nearly beyond repair.

 

she DOES have choices! but she doesn't want to be responsible for her actions = yes, she does work too much and won't change that! (she CAN change it - she just chooses not to).

I completely agree with this. I've told her so often she DOES have the power to change things, and to make decisions that will allow her to take care of herself (something she never really does) and me better.

 

deprives hubby of loving behavior and feeling connected.

I've gotten so used to fending for myself on this by compensating in other ways (my creative work is the principal one, but also TV, reading, porn, friends, and then that period of infidelity), that I can't imagine what it would feel like to not have to toe the line just right to get the love I desperately need. I'm not trying to evoke sympathy or absolve myself of blame, it's just how things have felt for me for a long while.

from this perspective - there has been something that she doesn't wish to face - something while growing up that is too painful for her to get past.

 

move forward. find a new way to be happy. let her and the baggage she's holding onto so tightly go. ... how much more does she need to slap you? ... SHE'S not changing! accept it and learn to be miserable- or leave and find out how to be happy.

This is the worst case scenario, and also quite true. I'm going to give us time to work through the cheating, while also working through past issues, but I'm not sure I'm hopeful that it will all work out in the end.

[NickFeek]

I have to say that I do agree with some of what 2 Sunny has said here....you cannot change her or fix it for her, she has to want to do that.

 

Something else, she is strong-willed and independent....she doesn't know how to be vulnerable and that affects the bedroom....whether it is something from her past that she won't admit or a trust issue, her lack of vulnerability obscures the intimacy.

 

Another question - how much do you lead in the personal relationship with your wife? A woman in your wife's position, strong-willed and independent typically tries to lead all the time...sometimes without even realizing it. Is there any balance in your marriage where sometimes you lead and where she does?

 

There are definitely times where I lead, and for the most part I do it well - though I can be overbearing or too aggressive at times. But I see what you're saying, and can also say that I probably hang back more than I should, reverting to my old pattern of avoiding conflict. In fact, I'm probably a little bipolar on this - either hanging back too much or being too aggressive. I'm talking about in our interpersonal life. With the kids & house & other stuff I'm comfortable right up the middle.

[2sunny]

Yes, the bedroom topic has been ongoing for at least 20 years. I'm absolutely sure it's tied into her other issues, and like I've said I played a big part it perpetuating our dysfunction.

 

as long as she's willing to hang onto to that - knowing it doesn't work for her - there's not one thing you can do to make that different for her...as long as she hangs on to it. it could look this way another 20-40 years - is that good enough for you?

 

and as long as YOU hang on to HER hanging on to it - it will look exactly as it does now. you can't fix that for her.

 

if nothing changes = nothing changes... what are YOU going to change?

[NickFeek]

You asked that before, and it's really the only question I have the power to answer. I think the one thing this infidelity did that could help is expose our issues and make us understand how dire things are. It has compelled me to set up a timeline:

 

Try what we're doing now. If that doesn't work, get to counseling. If that doesn't work, and nothing has improved significantly, start to discuss separation. If that does not prompt any changes, follow through with separation. I've read that it takes 1-2 years for a spouse to really process & mostly get over cheating/betrayal. I'm willing to work on this into next year. We've been together so long, another year is worth the effort.

[2sunny]

i honestly don't see change - so what is it that you are DOING now?

 

just a mental note - there is no TRYING... you either DO or DO NOT.

 

DOING is the action part... trying is merely thinking and complaining about it all - but not actually DOING anything to make it all different.

 

Try what we're doing now. If that doesn't work, get to counseling. If that doesn't work, and nothing has improved significantly, start to discuss separation. If that does not prompt any changes, follow through with separation. I've read that it takes 1-2 years for a spouse to really process & mostly get over cheating/betrayal. I'm willing to work on this into next year. We've been together so long, another year is worth the effort.

 

all of this seems way out in the future. that may be the issue... what are you willing to DO TODAY? remember - we are looking for CHANGE... so DO anything and everything different than you've EVER done.

[NickFeek]

What we're doing now is trying to wade through the mess created by my infidelity. Other than that, I do agree that it's time to DO and not to TRY. I'm very good at this in other areas of life, but have felt frozen in this realm. What I can say for certain is that things will not remain this way for long, nor will they go back to the way they were - neither is acceptable. The only other thing we can do now is continue to have honest conversations about everything and come to conclusions one way or another.

[2sunny]

What we're doing now is trying to wade through the mess created by my infidelity. Other than that, I do agree that it's time to DO and not to TRY. I'm very good at this in other areas of life, but have felt frozen in this realm. What I can say for certain is that things will not remain this way for long, nor will they go back to the way they were - neither is acceptable. The only other thing we can do now is continue to have honest conversations about everything and come to conclusions one way or another.

 

that still doesn't necessarily change a thing. talk is cheap - action is everything. you could spend the next 50 years talking and not doing anything specific to change it.

 

IF she doesn't intend to BE home- PARTICIPATING in the family on a daily basis - move her out.

 

THAT is change. and she MIGHT get motivated to EARN her way back into the house by BEING home more often!

 

since she's never there - quit pretending she is - simply move her out so your mind understands she NOT going to be present and participating.

 

all this pretending has gotten you nothing. so stop pretending. no sex and a wife who is constantly working isn't a marriage at all. she married her work. so let her have what she married = her work. it's not fair to you or your kids that she's married to her work. she's cheating the family out of a wife and mother by working.

 

get over the idea that divorce is a no no. she doesn't intend to be married - she married her work. let her have what she's cheating with. to pretend that she's a wife and Mom when she's never home or present to be supportive is just staying stuck in complete denial.

[NickFeek]

that still doesn't necessarily change a thing. talk is cheap - action is everything. you could spend the next 50 years talking and not doing anything specific to change it.

Oddly enough, I had a talk with her father months ago, and he said one of our main problems is we do a whole lot of talking but not enough doing. Now he wasn't completely right, but very close, and I don't know how he'd know that since he's not really privy to our private life. So if even HE can see that, we must really need to snap out of that cycle!

IF she doesn't intend to BE home- PARTICIPATING in the family on a daily basis - move her out.

 

THAT is change. and she MIGHT get motivated to EARN her way back into the house by BEING home more often!

 

since she's never there - quit pretending she is - simply move her out so your mind understands she NOT going to be present and participating.

It might be a good motivator going that route, but the truth is I'd be the one moving out, since she's the primary earner. Plus the kids still need me every morning & evening, so even if we "separated" now, I'd still be living here for logistical purposes. With kids & tight finances in the picture, it's just not that cut & dry.

all this pretending has gotten you nothing. so stop pretending. no sex and a wife who is constantly working isn't a marriage at all. she married her work. so let her have what she married = her work. it's not fair to you or your kids that she's married to her work. she's cheating the family out of a wife and mother by working.

I agree 1000%, and it feels good to hear someone else say it.

get over the idea that divorce is a no no. she doesn't intend to be married - she married her work. let her have what she's cheating with. to pretend that she's a wife and Mom when she's never home or present to be supportive is just staying stuck in complete denial.

I have to correct one perception. Though she's rarely home before 9pm these days, she is still an incredible mother. I wouldn't want anyone else parenting my kids. The wife part, however, I can't argue with.

[trippi1432]

There are definitely times where I lead, and for the most part I do it well - though I can be overbearing or too aggressive at times. But I see what you're saying, and can also say that I probably hang back more than I should, reverting to my old pattern of avoiding conflict. In fact, I'm probably a little bipolar on this - either hanging back too much or being too aggressive. I'm talking about in our interpersonal life. With the kids & house & other stuff I'm comfortable right up the middle.

 

You asked that before, and it's really the only question I have the power to answer. I think the one thing this infidelity did that could help is expose our issues and make us understand how dire things are. It has compelled me to set up a timeline:

 

Try what we're doing now. If that doesn't work, get to counseling. If that doesn't work, and nothing has improved significantly, start to discuss separation. If that does not prompt any changes, follow through with separation. I've read that it takes 1-2 years for a spouse to really process & mostly get over cheating/betrayal. I'm willing to work on this into next year. We've been together so long, another year is worth the effort.

 

Nick - I'm going to have to admit, I am a little in awe of your thread here. I don't condone infidelity, but I have to admit while it was wrong, it probably will expose the problems in your marriage. You've not come here looking for validation or justification in cheating, but how to resolve the current issues of intimacy that you would like to change in your marriage. You seem to have a relatively healthy handle on the problems, her issues as well as your own. I would agree that the years of counseling have helped you to see things from a much healthier aspect...way ahead of most here when they first hit LS. I wish my exH had half the insight that you do...we probably would have still been married because it would have been worth it to resolve.

 

Whether she can give up some of that workload to get work/life balance is questionable, she may really have to push back at work and learn to give up control and delegate. My issue was more that I had no one to delegate to and when I finally had those resources, it was too late. A year ago this week actually, I tendered my resignation and had a nervous breakdown due to being overworked and stressed, coupled with an impending divorce. I pushed back to my management, but until my breakdown, they were relentless. It took five people to take over my responsibilities. Today, my management has had to answer to HR about the way they treat their employees and we have a different management style due to complaints...not just mine. I still work there as they didn't want me to quit. I am finding many people who work for "Corporate America" are in this same boat...asked to do more with less.

 

Things I learned that might help her:

 

1. Give up control of the things in your daily job that are not strategic. Strategic things are what gets the job done....tactical (in her case perhaps) is what you utilize a (research) team for.

2. If someone (team) is not performing their tasks...replace them...you need people who get the job done...learn to trust them to do the job...or move them out.

3. Do not do someone else's job for them...hold people accountable for their responsibilities. If they don't come through, delegate to someone who will come through.

4. Delegate, Delegate, Delegate...can't say that one enough. She's an attorney...yes, she needs to know her cases to litigate, but she shouldn't have to do all the work too.

5. Leave work at 5, do not talk about work after 5, do not surround people who only talk about work after 5.

6. Do not work weekends, holidays or vacations....that's your time....for family, friends...etc.

7. Live to work, don't work to live

8. Let go of control

9. Love the people who love you...that's not your workplace...they can replace you very easily...people who love you can't

10. Work smarter, not harder

 

I know some of it sounds trite and simplistic...but it's amazing how people can forget simple....simple makes life a little easier. She is going to have to see this for herself....as much as I hate to admit it...it took losing my family for me to see it. Sometimes it isn't about being able to change it overnight...but yes, she should and could push back. I agree that it is time to DO and stop TRYING...but sometimes things take time....I'm glad you gave this a timeline. Don't stray from that....pushing too hard for change that can't take place overnight is unreasonable. I think you know that though.

[2sunny]

that still doesn't necessarily change a thing. talk is cheap - action is everything. you could spend the next 50 years talking and not doing anything specific to change it.

Oddly enough, I had a talk with her father months ago, and he said one of our main problems is we do a whole lot of talking but not enough doing. Now he wasn't completely right, but very close, and I don't know how he'd know that since he's not really privy to our private life. So if even HE can see that, we must really need to snap out of that cycle!

IF she doesn't intend to BE home- PARTICIPATING in the family on a daily basis - move her out.

 

THAT is change. and she MIGHT get motivated to EARN her way back into the house by BEING home more often!

 

since she's never there - quit pretending she is - simply move her out so your mind understands she NOT going to be present and participating.

It might be a good motivator going that route, but the truth is I'd be the one moving out, since she's the primary earner. Plus the kids still need me every morning & evening, so even if we "separated" now, I'd still be living here for logistical purposes. With kids & tight finances in the picture, it's just not that cut & dry.

all this pretending has gotten you nothing. so stop pretending. no sex and a wife who is constantly working isn't a marriage at all. she married her work. so let her have what she married = her work. it's not fair to you or your kids that she's married to her work. she's cheating the family out of a wife and mother by working.

I agree 1000%, and it feels good to hear someone else say it.

get over the idea that divorce is a no no. she doesn't intend to be married - she married her work. let her have what she's cheating with. to pretend that she's a wife and Mom when she's never home or present to be supportive is just staying stuck in complete denial.

I have to correct one perception. Though she's rarely home before 9pm these days, she is still an incredible mother. I wouldn't want anyone else parenting my kids. The wife part, however, I can't argue with.

 

if i worked all day long and got home at 9pm- there's no way i could potentially be an incredible Mother. are you being honest with yourself? how can she participate when she's not there? giving orders over the phone doesn't count.

and who cares IF she's earning the money - the money is BOTH of yours. since she's not there and you are - SHE moves. she is essentially home to sleep - so let her sleep somewhere else.

 

the way a family member understands that there's not enough DOING - is by watching that nothing ever changes but everyone just continues to complain about the same things - get busy with change.

 

even though you had an affair - she's still not wanting to be intimate with you and be home to interact and become supportive and connected to you. she has no intention of making things different. let her work. you get busy living. living without her and her continual absence. putting up with it all has only shown her by your actions that you are willing to reward her bad behavior- let's just ignore everything and have her keep working all day long.

 

call it as it is... "this isn't a M- and i'm not willing to keep pretending that no intimacy, no sex and no time with you is living a happy life" "since your priority is to be away at work- you may as well move because you don't participate with the family anyway"

[trippi1432]

Nick - you do need to listen to 2Sunny on this one...why? Because you are resolved...internally, you are. A lot of what she says is what I should have told my exH a long time ago before it went really bad with his issues.

 

Kicking it in cruise control for now 2Sunny.

[NickFeek]

Nick - I'm going to have to admit, I am a little in awe of your thread here. I don't condone infidelity, but I have to admit while it was wrong, it probably will expose the problems in your marriage. You've not come here looking for validation or justification in cheating, but how to resolve the current issues of intimacy that you would like to change in your marriage. You seem to have a relatively healthy handle on the problems, her issues as well as your own. I would agree that the years of counseling have helped you to see things from a much healthier aspect...way ahead of most here when they first hit LS. I wish my exH had half the insight that you do...we probably would have still been married because it would have been worth it to resolve.

Really? Well thank you for saying so, and I hope you're right. Hope is at a low ebb for me right now.

Whether she can give up some of that workload to get work/life balance is questionable, she may really have to push back at work and learn to give up control and delegate. My issue was more that I had no one to delegate to and when I finally had those resources, it was too late. A year ago this week actually, I tendered my resignation and had a nervous breakdown due to being overworked and stressed, coupled with an impending divorce. I pushed back to my management, but until my breakdown, they were relentless. It took five people to take over my responsibilities. Today, my management has had to answer to HR about the way they treat their employees and we have a different management style due to complaints...not just mine. I still work there as they didn't want me to quit. I am finding many people who work for "Corporate America" are in this same boat...asked to do more with less.

I've heard this story often as well. I do think corporate expects people to take on ALL they can regardless of the effects. And it shows how short sighted they are when it takes that many people to assume the duties of one. You've been through so much and seem very well adjusted to it all. I'm glad things worked out at your job. I'll say for my wife that part of it is this issue, but the larger part is her unwillingness to say no to additional work and/or to delegate. She's been this way forever.

Things I learned that might help her:

 

1. Give up control of the things in your daily job that are not strategic. Strategic things are what gets the job done....tactical (in her case perhaps) is what you utilize a (research) team for.

2. If someone (team) is not performing their tasks...replace them...you need people who get the job done...learn to trust them to do the job...or move them out.

3. Do not do someone else's job for them...hold people accountable for their responsibilities. If they don't come through, delegate to someone who will come through.

4. Delegate, Delegate, Delegate...can't say that one enough. She's an attorney...yes, she needs to know her cases to litigate, but she shouldn't have to do all the work too.

5. Leave work at 5, do not talk about work after 5, do not surround people who only talk about work after 5.

6. Do not work weekends, holidays or vacations....that's your time....for family, friends...etc.

7. Live to work, don't work to live

8. Let go of control

9. Love the people who love you...that's not your workplace...they can replace you very easily...people who love you can't

10. Work smarter, not harder

Very helpful, and things I will share with her. #s 3, 4 & 5 especially hit home. 6 she doesn't do. 9 is something she feels in her heart but doesn't show in her actions.

I know some of it sounds trite and simplistic...but it's amazing how people can forget simple....simple makes life a little easier. She is going to have to see this for herself....as much as I hate to admit it...it took losing my family for me to see it. Sometimes it isn't about being able to change it overnight...but yes, she should and could push back. I agree that it is time to DO and stop TRYING...but sometimes things take time....I'm glad you gave this a timeline. Don't stray from that....pushing too hard for change that can't take place overnight is unreasonable. I think you know that though.

That last part is especially true. And knowing her as well as I do, the last thing I want is to push her into a defensive corner. So as distasteful as it might be to take extra time with this, it's the best approach. That is, until it isn't!

[2sunny]

complacency breeds contempt. it will only be your fault.

 

you are simply waiting for HER to change. that is backwards because she has no reason to change. the change must come from YOU.

 

all of your happiness is based on what she is or isn't doing.

 

you will have no one to blame but yourself - for not being willing to change things.

 

fear is all around. it keeps people stuck in there own complaints all the time.

 

so wait. and wait some more. you've been a patient man for 20 years - what's another 20 or so? IF you decide to sit back and be at the mercy of her... you have no one to blame but yourself for not DOING things differently.

 

either get busy living or get busy dying. what's it gonna be?

[NickFeek]

Seems like some of the posts may be coming out of sequence, but here we go for both of you. I'll try to be brief since there's a lot to tackle! ....

 

if i worked all day long and got home at 9pm- there's no way i could potentially be an incredible Mother. are you being honest with yourself? how can she participate when she's not there? giving orders over the phone doesn't count.

You'll have to trust me on this one. I've been honest about everything so far, good and bad, and as crazy as it sounds this is true too.

and who cares IF she's earning the money - the money is BOTH of yours. since she's not there and you are - SHE moves. she is essentially home to sleep - so let her sleep somewhere else.

That is mind blowing. I couldn't imagine doing this. Guess I'm not quite at that point yet.

the way a family member understands that there's not enough DOING - is by watching that nothing ever changes but everyone just continues to complain about the same things - get busy with change.

This is why things are where they are now, and why I refuse to give up until this resolves one way or another. Too many years wasted repeating cycles.

even though you had an affair - she's still not wanting to be intimate with you and be home to interact and become supportive and connected to you. she has no intention of making things different. let her work. you get busy living. living without her and her continual absence. putting up with it all has only shown her by your actions that you are willing to reward her bad behavior- let's just ignore everything and have her keep working all day long.

I get so caught up in her side of the argument that I can barely see it this way. No that's not true. I CAN see it this way, but when we're in the midst of a conversation something gets lost in translation.

call it as it is... "this isn't a M- and i'm not willing to keep pretending that no intimacy, no sex and no time with you is living a happy life" "since your priority is to be away at work- you may as well move because you don't participate with the family anyway"

In our next conversation, I'm going to bring up three things (among others): 1. What does she need to make her happy? 2. What do I need to be happy? 3. Where does she see us 3, 6, 12 months from now? If she's unable to answer 1 or 3, and/or unsure she can work on #2, there's nothing I can do but start to pull the plug.

Nick - you do need to listen to 2Sunny on this one...why? Because you are resolved...internally, you are. A lot of what she says is what I should have told my exH a long time ago before it went really bad with his issues.

So do you mean internally I'm resolved to initiate a separation? I won't say I'm resolved, but I will say that I am seeing very few other viable scenarios as of today.

[FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][/FONT]

[NickFeek]

complacency breeds contempt. it will only be your fault.

 

you are simply waiting for HER to change. that is backwards because she has no reason to change. the change must come from YOU.

 

all of your happiness is based on what she is or isn't doing.

 

you will have no one to blame but yourself - for not being willing to change things.

 

fear is all around. it keeps people stuck in there own complaints all the time.

 

so wait. and wait some more. you've been a patient man for 20 years - what's another 20 or so? IF you decide to sit back and be at the mercy of her... you have no one to blame but yourself for not DOING things differently.

All of this is true. And what has been broken open by me stepping out cannot be put back in the bottle. She knows this, and that's one reason she's been more scared lately. Same with me. Despite the pains, there's still a lot of tendrils that weave through both of us. Necessary or not, it will be hard & hurt like hell if they all need to be pulled out, and that's not to say what it'll do to the kids. BUT again, there's NO GOING BACK for me or us.

either get busy living or get busy dying. what's it gonna be?

This is a Morgan Freeman quote from a movie, right?

[trippi1432]

Seems like some of the posts may be coming out of sequence, but here we go for both of you. I'll try to be brief since there's a lot to tackle! ....

 

if i worked all day long and got home at 9pm- there's no way i could potentially be an incredible Mother. are you being honest with yourself? how can she participate when she's not there? giving orders over the phone doesn't count.

You'll have to trust me on this one. I've been honest about everything so far, good and bad, and as crazy as it sounds this is true too.

and who cares IF she's earning the money - the money is BOTH of yours. since she's not there and you are - SHE moves. she is essentially home to sleep - so let her sleep somewhere else.

That is mind blowing. I couldn't imagine doing this. Guess I'm not quite at that point yet.

the way a family member understands that there's not enough DOING - is by watching that nothing ever changes but everyone just continues to complain about the same things - get busy with change.

This is why things are where they are now, and why I refuse to give up until this resolves one way or another. Too many years wasted repeating cycles.

even though you had an affair - she's still not wanting to be intimate with you and be home to interact and become supportive and connected to you. she has no intention of making things different. let her work. you get busy living. living without her and her continual absence. putting up with it all has only shown her by your actions that you are willing to reward her bad behavior- let's just ignore everything and have her keep working all day long.

I get so caught up in her side of the argument that I can barely see it this way. No that's not true. I CAN see it this way, but when we're in the midst of a conversation something gets lost in translation.

call it as it is... "this isn't a M- and i'm not willing to keep pretending that no intimacy, no sex and no time with you is living a happy life" "since your priority is to be away at work- you may as well move because you don't participate with the family anyway"

In our next conversation, I'm going to bring up three things (among others): 1. What does she need to make her happy? 2. What do I need to be happy? 3. Where does she see us 3, 6, 12 months from now? If she's unable to answer 1 or 3, and/or unsure she can work on #2, there's nothing I can do but start to pull the plug.

Nick - you do need to listen to 2Sunny on this one...why? Because you are resolved...internally, you are. A lot of what she says is what I should have told my exH a long time ago before it went really bad with his issues.

So do you mean internally I'm resolved to initiate a separation? I won't say I'm resolved, but I will say that I am seeing very few other viable scenarios as of today.

[FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][/FONT]

 

complacency breeds contempt. it will only be your fault.

 

you are simply waiting for HER to change. that is backwards because she has no reason to change. the change must come from YOU.

 

all of your happiness is based on what she is or isn't doing.

 

you will have no one to blame but yourself - for not being willing to change things.

 

fear is all around. it keeps people stuck in there own complaints all the time.

 

so wait. and wait some more. you've been a patient man for 20 years - what's another 20 or so? IF you decide to sit back and be at the mercy of her... you have no one to blame but yourself for not DOING things differently.

All of this is true. And what has been broken open by me stepping out cannot be put back in the bottle. She knows this, and that's one reason she's been more scared lately. Same with me. Despite the pains, there's still a lot of tendrils that weave through both of us. Necessary or not, it will be hard & hurt like hell if they all need to be pulled out, and that's not to say what it'll do to the kids. BUT again, there's NO GOING BACK for me or us.

either get busy living or get busy dying. what's it gonna be?

This is a Morgan Freeman quote from a movie, right?

 

Actually, it was...Shawshank Redemption.....it WAS a quote that a beloved member here used to tell me all the time though...2Sunny - did you start that quote or did Gunny?

 

Nick - you do things in your own time...you set the timeline, not LS or any of the opinions here. You KNOW your wife, YOU know your LIFESTYLE and how it gets affected...it's not an easy answer of quit your job or I'm leaving (hated when my exH thought that the easy answer was just quit), it IS a process of HER reclaiming HER life for HER FAMILY. Another collective saying...Patience is a virtue.

[NickFeek]

I like that quote. A friend of mine used it in a song he wrote.

 

I appreciate BOTH trippi's & 2sunny's approaches here! And especially appreciate all the time & feedback you're giving me. One of the reasons I ended up having that brief affair was because my coworker & I corresponded like this A LOT, whereas I talk to my wife at 7:30am before taking the kids to school, and very often don't get an email or phone response from her until after 5 or 6pm. Now some days are just crazy and that's fine, but EVERY day?

 

I'm sure I'll take things more slowly than 2sunny is saying, but I do intend to get there in the NOW rather than sometime in the future.

[willowthewisp]

Re the affair, it's easy for a co-worker, a mistress, with no other pressures of children, being the main bread winner etc to give you all the time in the world. Plus she got something out of it too, butterflies and an ego boost.

 

Some people will slaughter me for saying this, but I'm going to anyway because I have read about it a fair bit, a lot of women who are happy to sleep with a married man suffer from Boarderline Personality Disorder or Histronic Personality Disorder. Her "feelings" for you may not have been so much about you and more about her own internal issues.

 

Don't judge your wife, the mother of your children, the women who has been at your side for 25 years on the basis of a women willing to sleep with a married man.

 

Edit - just to claify in case it didn't come across well, what I mean is, is it fair to compare the level of communication you had with an affair partner for one week with the level of communication your wife is able to give with other pressures and othe factors?

Edited April 22, 2011 by willowthewisp

[NickFeek]

I agree you can't judge what happened based on how it felt. A brief and heated affair like that is bound to feel exhilarating for both parties. I don't know that she has a disorder, but I'm sure it was fulfilling a need in her apart from what she felt about me as a person. To her credit, once we agreed to end it, she devoted a lot of effort toward helping me repair my marriage. We are both good people who had never done this before and realized how badly we screwed up. And yes, what makes this situation not black and white us that my wife has given me support and friendship in many other ways over the years, not to mention three amazing kids. And I will give her due respect and time because of all that. It's Just that none of that can take away how horrible things have felt for so long.

[trippi1432]

No....what happened is because you are missing the emotional link you need with your wife...it is the bridge the two of you need to reconnect. You support her from your aspect...and it is what you need from her. She needs to know that and that is communicating your needs to her....and repeatedly do that. Set it in stone because she IS your wife and signed up for that when she married you...and you for her.

 

Your emotional needs as well as all others need to be met by her, your wife.

[NickFeek]

Thats exactly what I'm feeling and exactly what needs to happen for this marriage to work for the long term.

[OliveOyl]

I admit I've skipped over a lot of the posts in this thread but I just wanted to add one comment, just inserting my personal attitude... take it or leave it. There's been a lot of talk about "25 years, you can't just throw that away, 25 years is worth working for, yada yada." Well there is no medal, plaque, no special reward for making it a certain length of time, those years are water under the bridge, my friend. In a way, it doesn't matter... it's not like an balloon investment that is suddenly going to reap rewards one day if things continue the same. All you have is the eternal Now. So what if it's been 25 years, if 20 of those years have been beating your head against the wall. Do you want to look back 25 years from now and say "I did it! I made it to 50 years" but still be deeply dissatisfied?

 

If the majority of those 25 years were happy, and were the kind of relationship you've wanted, and only recently (past few years) did the marriage start going downhill... that's one thing. I'd say yes it's definitely worth working to fix the marriage. However if you can honestly say that for the majority of the time, it hasn't been what you hoped for or wanted, but you just kept on thinking and hoping it would get better, then I would look upon the marriage as a new relationship and say "Is this what I want now and do I have some reason to believe it can improve?"

 

In my opinion, a relationship will never suddenly get dramatically better than it's always been. If there never was a deep attraction in the first place, chances are it suddenly won't develop even with therapy. I think therapy is better for fixing once strong marriages than trying to create completely new relationship dynamics. Oh, I'm sure it's possible, but in general, take what you have as face value. And then look deep inside to figure out what you truly want.

[soserious1]

2sunny

 

So OP's wife pays most of the OP's bills, he cheats and the one who deserves to be punished is OP's wife?

[2sunny]

i am a believer that since she said her vows and hasn't held up her end of doing the work to be connected to you - as her husband - that she hasn't been honoring her commitment.

 

her vows never once stated "i will work all day long and half the evening too - in order to make more money and avoid being with my family"

 

something in her is broken if she has the need to hide in her workload. since she's unwilling to uncover it and discard that crap she's been hanging onto - all she's offering you is her absence and the broken version of herself.

 

be patient all you want - patience NEVER makes someone change - her being EXTREMELY uncomfortable will bring about change. what are you going to do to make her uncomfortable enough to do something rather than nothing?

 

here's a great link and formula for change:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_for_Change

 

IF she's not dissatisfied with how things are - she's not going to be motivated to want to change a thing = so you can expect much more of the same... or even bigger resistance.

[2sunny]

2sunny

 

So OP's wife pays most of the OP's bills, he cheats and the one who deserves to be punished is OP's wife?

 

if you take the money she earns () out of the equation - what is it she is offering to him as a wife?

 

no intimacy

no participation

no connection

no sex

no time together

 

what is it she has offered?

 

money is beside the point... IF he's staying because she earns money - then he needs to get out there and earn more of his own... so he can easily support himself and his kids in order to NOT feel at the mercy of needing his wife's money - but getting short changed on living; and short changed on being married to a wife that actually acts as if she intends to be IN the marriage.