OceanGirl Posted October 1, 2010 Posted October 1, 2010 Love ya (((S/CI)) I am on my way out to meet M so will write more when I get back. But I completely understand why you would omit the sex part. People can be really judgmental on here... I took a valium 30 minutes ago because I was dying of nerves and alcohol makes me sick
Star Gazer Posted October 1, 2010 Posted October 1, 2010 Love ya (((S/CI)) I am on my way out to meet M so will write more when I get back. But I completely understand why you would omit the sex part. People can be really judgmental on here... I took a valium 30 minutes ago because I was dying of nerves and alcohol makes me sick And here you go, just reinforcing this behavior!!! This is CRAZY!!! If you're worried about people being judgmental, then don't start threads about it. Period. Don't give half the story. It's like some dude posting, "My girlfriend left me for no good reason! Help!" and having all these people helping him, only to have him confess 10 threads later, "Well, I beat and cheated on her, so..." It CHANGES the entire dynamic. Just be HONEST. You're only hurting YOURSELF by not being honest.
OceanGirl Posted October 1, 2010 Posted October 1, 2010 But she really cares about what you guys think... She is under no obligation to be 100% honest on the message board. Does it really change things THAT much? Obviously he contacted her and wanted to see her after sex so it wasn't ONS..
Kamille Posted October 1, 2010 Posted October 1, 2010 From CI convincing herself that this guy not setting up the next date at 4:30 am to her suddenly being hard on herself for having sex with him, this thread is a whole bunch of much ado about nothing. One, okay, you like him, but stop idealizing him. I see you're already starting to put him on a pedestal. He does sound like a great guy, but, he's just a guy. One who's already told you he's not looking for anything serious. So stop trying to turn this into the conquest of the century. You had fun hanging out with him on three dates. Good for you. Now, as to the original fear in this thread, you allowed yourself to lapse into obsessive thoughts. This guy has no history of suggesting dates on the same nights. More importantly this guy does have your phone number. There was no reason for him to mention a future meet up right then and there. Calm down and keep living your life. If he calls, good for him. The only potential issue I truly see in this thread, except for your propensity to obsess over details and convince yourself that whatever you obsess about is the truth, is that this is the second time you leave a guy you just slept with at the wee hours in the morning. I don't fully get it. You say you couldn't sleep. Why not? Tell me about it Like Star mentioned in one of her posts, with the politician guy I was always pressuring him to set exact time and place for the next date. He was always giving me vague answers and once snapped with "I feel like you are constantly cornering me" That's because your impulse to contact are not based on confidence but on insecurity. Anyone who is asked to constantly confirm their interests will eventually feel cornered. I know I appreciate being allowed to decide when and how I want to show interest. If my partner keeps pestering me to show interest in the way he thinks I should show interest, then I naturally start wondering whether or not I am genuinely interested. I wonder this precisely because that person keeps pointing out that I never seem to be as interested as that person wants me to be. That's what you're doing when you constantly try to gage someone's interest level. Both you and CI should stop worrying about interest level so much and start trusting in the process. If the guy likes you, he will get in touch with you. And no, he can't be expected to do it exactly when and how you expect him to do it. It's an error in logic to think, such as CI did here, that just because he didn't do one specific thing that she must have done something wrong. You both set up these imaginary "interest" tests and then convince yourself that guys not passing them is a sign you're flawed. No, if a guy is interested he will let you know. And, if he isn't interested, than all it means is... that he isn't interested.
Kamille Posted October 1, 2010 Posted October 1, 2010 Oh and ps, I can understand why CI didn't tell us about sleeping with him and am almost glad she didn't. There likely would have been a bunch of us chastising her for it, telling her she slept with him too soon and it would have messed with her fragile confidence.
OceanGirl Posted October 1, 2010 Posted October 1, 2010 SG, he still took her out on DATES and showed interest in spending time with her outside of the bedroom. There are many guys who don't think that having sex on the first date means no LTR. My brother's current gf slept with him on the first date. They are now living together.
Star Gazer Posted October 1, 2010 Posted October 1, 2010 SG, he still took her out on DATES and showed interest in spending time with her outside of the bedroom. There are many guys who don't think that having sex on the first date means no LTR. My brother's current gf slept with him on the first date. They are now living together. I could care less at this point when they had sex. The fact she lied about it on an anonymous forum speaks so much more about her than how quickly she sleeps with new guys. And like so many people here, I don't think you're doing her any favors. You're encouraging destructive thinking and behavior.
Kamille Posted October 1, 2010 Posted October 1, 2010 I could care less at this point when they had sex. The fact she lied about it on an anonymous forum speaks so much more about her than how quickly she sleeps with new guys. And like so many people here, I don't think you're doing her any favors. You're encouraging destructive thinking and behavior. For argument's sake: 1) This forum isn't so anonymous. Many of us do know each other and respond to each other accordingly. 2) This isn't a court of law or therapy, it's a forum. No one is under any obligation to tell the truth and nothing but the truth. There is no obligation to divulge every element of our lives. CI brought this fact up when she felt it was relevant. As it turns out, she brought it up at precisely the time when she was feeling heightened anxiety. I think this is relevant to how her obsessive thoughts work. She's currently trying to prove her worst-case scenario, that this guy isn't interested in her. Up until now, she seemed to feel relatively secure. Now she's questioning herself and everything she did to try and figure out "where she went wrong", when, really, all that happened is that she expected him to say :"Let's do this again sometime" and he didn't. 3) CI knew the kind of response she would get and I imagine part of the reason why she didn't post about it is that she didn't need to add to her anxious thoughts. Right now though, she's indulging in anxiety. Indulging might not be the right word. What I mean is that she's in full obsessive-thought anxiety mode.
Star Gazer Posted October 1, 2010 Posted October 1, 2010 1) This forum isn't so anonymous. Many of us do know each other and respond to each other accordingly. Right...based on what we know about one another. But if you don't share relevant details, what's the point? Really? 2) This isn't a court of law or therapy, it's a forum. No one is under any obligation to tell the truth and nothing but the truth. Okay, Kam. Whatever you say. Nice dig. I'll remember that. 3) CI knew the kind of response she would get ... You mean the one she actually didn't get??
OceanGirl Posted October 1, 2010 Posted October 1, 2010 I could care less at this point when they had sex. The fact she lied about it on an anonymous forum speaks so much more about her than how quickly she sleeps with new guys. And like so many people here, I don't think you're doing her any favors. You're encouraging destructive thinking and behavior. Really? I am giving her the best advice I know how to give. Sorry if it's not up to your standards. Some may think that we encourage each other's destructive thinking. But the reality is, both of us have been just as ****ed up and self-destructive before we met.
Kamille Posted October 1, 2010 Posted October 1, 2010 Right...based on what we know about one another. But if you don't share relevant details, what's the point? Really? I think we're coming at this from two different angles. You're thinking about how she interacts with the forum and I'm thinking about how she manages her own anxieties. I could care less about how she interacts with the forum, as long as she learns to manage her anxieties. Okay, Kam. Whatever you say. Nice dig. I'll remember that. You know I love you ! But okay, you owe me one dig. You mean the one she actually didn't get?? Yes, she didn't get it here precisely because this guy has asked her out on more dates even after she slept with him. But what if, on the first post she wrote about hooking up with him, she actually said she slept with him? What would have happened then? And, also, she just brought up they had sex a few hours ago. Wait for it.
Star Gazer Posted October 1, 2010 Posted October 1, 2010 Really? I am giving her the best advice I know how to give. Exactly...
Star Gazer Posted October 1, 2010 Posted October 1, 2010 I think we're coming at this from two different angles. You're thinking about how she interacts with the forum and I'm thinking about how she manages her own anxieties. I could care less about how she interacts with the forum, as long as she learns to manage her anxieties. I think we're actually looking at it the same way. We both see it as: Shadow wants/needs help - with her anxieties, with her insecurities, with her destructive behavior and thought patterns. Where we differ is this: From my (and probably most other LSers) perspective, in order for Shadow to get real help, she must present the real, relevant facts. From your perspective, it seems the real, relevant facts don't matter. Shadow's imagination/version of events is what matters. *shrug*
Kamille Posted October 1, 2010 Posted October 1, 2010 My main point right now is that she's in full obsessive mode right now. I think it's significant that she brings sex up at precisely the time when she's trying to figure out where she went wrong (when really there is no indication that anything is wrong). I think recognizing that process is what's important.
Star Gazer Posted October 1, 2010 Posted October 1, 2010 My main point right now is that she's in full obsessive mode right now. I think it's significant that she brings sex up at precisely the time when she's trying to figure out where she went wrong (when really there is no indication that anything is wrong). I think recognizing that process is what's important. Yeah, you're right...we do see this very differently. Because the ENTIRE situation is different with sex on the first night (not even date), and every time since, now thrown in the mix. In essence, yes...something IS wrong. Very wrong.
Kamille Posted October 1, 2010 Posted October 1, 2010 Yeah, you're right...we do see this very differently. Because the ENTIRE situation is different with sex on the first night (not even date), and every time since, now thrown in the mix. In essence, yes...something IS wrong. Very wrong. Agreed. Our analysis totally differ. Could you expand on what you think is wrong?
Star Gazer Posted October 1, 2010 Posted October 1, 2010 Agreed. Our analysis totally differ. Could you expand on what you think is wrong? Yes, but I'm not going to bother because it will fall on deaf ears. As I said, I'm not going to go back through her threads on this guy with the true facts in mind and show you where my advice would have been different had I known they'd had sex since the first night (not even the first date). Shadow/CI clearly has an issue with having sex way too soon with every single guy she dates. There's a SERIOUS problem there. I will not say any more because I know someone's hovering over the alert button. Hope you can help her, but I'm done trying.
Author coloredinks Posted October 1, 2010 Author Posted October 1, 2010 (edited) I've put a certain member on ignore. I don't think she has bad intentions, but our conversations aren't contributing anything positive for either of us. That's not to say I don't value her advice a lot of the time, but there's a negative pattern that ends up exacerbating my own anxiety and also causing frustration for her. I saw my therapist this morning, and she believes a good way of managing my anxiety and obsessiveness is to allot a specific amount of time each day to writing it all down. I guess this works for a lot of her obsession patients. Then redirecting my focus to other things. So that's what I'm doing now. I'm going to try to limit my LS time to 1.5 hours a day. That gives me an hour early in the day, and half an hour later, or however I want to break it up. Haha. But it would be a real reduction from the amount of time I usually spend on here. The whole point of this exercise is to indulge my obsessions and go there, rather than avoiding the thoughts and letting them pile up. Then once I've done an obsession dump, moving on to other things. It's at least worth a try. So here's what's currently on my mind... I'm very sad that I felt like I had such a great connection with this guy on our last date, and now I'm 95% I won't hear from him again. Actually, even worse I'm left hanging and I'll have to spend the next few days in dread. I wish I just knew for sure right now so I could move on. If it were just some guy, like OKCupid guy, the rejection would sting, but I wouldn't be so sad. But I haven't had the kind conversations we had last night with anybody for years, maybe ever. I think the only thing that came close was my BFF who I've known since I was a teenager. I don't think I'm even afraid of him rejecting me. I'm more just supremely disappointed, because I was excited about getting to know him better. It's just so incredibly rare that I find anybody I can at all relate to, and we really clicked (I thought) the other night. Why did he have to lose interest then rather than after our disastrous second date or our drunken hook up? My therapist gave me questionable advice about contacting him again that I want to run by you guys. She said she thinks I should wait another day or two and then ask him if he wants to hang out again some time this week. My first thought was "no, nooooo." But she said, "you do need/want to know," and I don't want to be hanging forever, and that given that he's not just some guy I met at a bar, given that we have gotten to know each other and have had in-depth conversations, it's appropriate for me to contact him. It's a natural question. What do you guys think? I really don't know. Edited October 1, 2010 by coloredinks
Author coloredinks Posted October 1, 2010 Author Posted October 1, 2010 It's that 5% shred of hope that he might get back to me that ends up causing me so much grief. If I were 100 percent, then it would hurt really bad for a bit, but then I could reset. Hence my temptation to contact him now. But then again, that might not even give me a real answer, since he could just be going along with what I suggest. I wonder if there's some way I can smash that 5% of doubt and make myself 100 percent that he won't contact me again. That'd be awesome. Usually, I just heavily flirt with the worst case scenario, but part of me still holds on to hope. In a way it leaves me worse off, because I still obsess and feel anxious but also negative the whole time. There must be some way of mentally eradicating that tiny hope.
Star Gazer Posted October 1, 2010 Posted October 1, 2010 SG, he still took her out on DATES and showed interest in spending time with her outside of the bedroom. There are many guys who don't think that having sex on the first date means no LTR. This is exactly what I'm referring to when I say you're not helping her, SACWA. You're not representing the facts accurately, which inevitably leads Shadow to see the world through your fantasy eyes. They haven't been on DATES (plural), nor did they have sex for the first time on the first DATE. They had sex before they even had a date. First time: She and her roommates threw a party. He happened to be there, and she wound up having sex with him. That wasn't their first date. Second time: This is what Shadow herself calls their first date. They went to a movie and came back and had sex while she was sick in some way (puking). That might be a date, but it's the only one. I don't really consider going to a movie a date, but some people do. Third time. They went to the fair as a group, wound up alone and had sex.
Author coloredinks Posted October 1, 2010 Author Posted October 1, 2010 (edited) Man, I just wish he'd send me a message right now that read something along the lines of: Hey, Shadow, it's been nice/fun getting to know you, but I'm not interested in a relationship with you and I don't want to lead you on. Take care and good luck with your film! That would fkcing LIBERATE me. I wish guys were considerate enough to do that more often rather than leaving women hanging for a few days wondering if he'll get back to them. At least for me, it takes much longer for the shred of hope to die when a guy simply doesn't contact me. Like even weeks later, I'll be wondering/hoping they might contact me again, despite knowing that it's unrealistic and delusion. Point is it's much, much harder to smash that hope when you don't get a firm "I'm not interested." Especially when you felt like you were forming a real connection. I think the no contact response is appropriate if it were just a few lousy dates with no chemistry, or some random person you met at a bar. So, somehow I need to convince myself that he's sent me a firm message, like an email saying "I"m not interested" so I can move on NOW. Edited October 1, 2010 by coloredinks
Kamille Posted October 1, 2010 Posted October 1, 2010 I'm glad you're taking steps to manage your anxiety. Shadow, I wonder where your desire for contact comes from. A part of me feels like you automatically jump into "conquest" mode when you meet a guy. You're already dismissing the OKC guy, while just two weeks ago you also found arguments as to why you really wanted things to work out with him. The one thing we do know about J is that he currently isn't looking for anything serious. Why try to conquer him? In your shoes, I would focus on enjoying his company while putting the onus on him to impress me. Do you know what I mean? But, FYI, I think your therapist's suggestion is ok. I'm personally guessing he will be in touch in 2-3 days. If allowing yourself to get in touch with him in 2 days will help you manage your anxieties and hold off on contacting him sooner, than I think you should take your therapist's suggestions up.
Author coloredinks Posted October 1, 2010 Author Posted October 1, 2010 Radical acceptance. This is something Dialectical Behavior Therapy teaches. (DBT works best for people with Borderline like me, but psychologists say it is helpful to everyone. I hope everyone reading the below gets something out of it!) I was just rummaging around my room for my DBT workbook, but couldn't find it. Here's what I've learned from it so far. I will use these thoughts as a mantra, even though I don't totally believe them now. I hope with time they will sink in o my soul. -I need to accept that sometimes in my life I will feel a strong connection to somebody that they won't feel, and THAT'S OK. -I need to accept that sometimes I will learn a lot from somebody else, be inspired by somebody, and have a brief connection with them, and then it, and the person, will be gone forever, and THAT'S OK. -I need to learn to derive joy from the great moments I share with another person, even if they don't last, by living in the present, and THAT'S OK. - I need to allow myself to take what I've learned of value from somebody else and cherish it, and adopt it if I want, even if the person it came from disappears, and THAT'S OK. -I need to accept that all people are a mixture of good and bad. That because somebody doesn't want to be with me, or doesn't like me, doesn't mean I can't learn something from them or I should discard all of their advice. It doesn't mean that there aren't other people who have some of their traits that I value but will really want to be with me ....And THAT'S OK. I'm wondering if traveling some day wouldn't be good for me. It would allow me to meet many different people, who I know I would probably never see again. It might desensitize me to intimate, short-lived connections and allow me to focus on the present.
Author coloredinks Posted October 1, 2010 Author Posted October 1, 2010 (edited) I'm glad you're taking steps to manage your anxiety. Shadow, I wonder where your desire for contact comes from. A part of me feels like you automatically jump into "conquest" mode when you meet a guy. You're already dismissing the OKC guy, while just two weeks ago you also found arguments as to why you really wanted things to work out with him. The one thing we do know about J is that he currently isn't looking for anything serious. Why try to conquer him? In your shoes, I would focus on enjoying his company while putting the onus on him to impress me. Do you know what I mean? But, FYI, I think your therapist's suggestion is ok. I'm personally guessing he will be in touch in 2-3 days. If allowing yourself to get in touch with him in 2 days will help you manage your anxieties and hold off on contacting him sooner, than I think you should take your therapist's suggestions up. Yes, maybe you're right that I slip into conquest mode. It's almost as if I put off deciding whether I even like them until I've won them over. Then, if we do get into a relationship, problems arise when I acknowledge flaws in their behavior that I ignored earlier. I think with J it's a bit different. I probably was in conquest mode for the first two dates, but on Wednesday I really started to like him in a genuine way, so now it's more just sadness/disappointment that I may not be able to get to know him better. But as I wrote above, THAT'S OK. Or so I'm trying to convince myself. Heh. I suppose if I learned to see myself as more of a prize, my whole approach to dating would be different -- probably more like yours. As you wrote, the onus would be on the guy to impress me. He would have to convince me that he was worth getting to know. I'd like to get to that place. Edited October 1, 2010 by coloredinks
Ariadne Posted October 1, 2010 Posted October 1, 2010 "I'm terrible at small talk." And he laughed and said emphatically, "yeah you are." I haven't had the kind conversations we had last night with anybody for years, maybe ever. I think the only thing that came close was my BFF...What do you guys think? I really don't know. You seem confused and I will tell you in part what I think went wrong. Guys don't like to have long deep conversations with girls they don't even know. They are only interested in having those talks with girls they really dig or are really into. And that takes time. I don't know how much crazy about you he must have been after a couple dates where you were drunk, got sick, and so on. It seems like you want to make up for the part of giving up sex so soon by giving a big talk and showing them more of yourself.. Unfortunately guys will find that a big pest, and will only "put up" with that for a little bit in order to get laid, and then not want to deal. I still think he will call. Good luck.
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