Don't Blame Fat People

[torranceshipman]

Are you kidding me? People have a choice. How expensive is it to buy frozen vegetables, for example? Not very. Walk into any store and you'll find them there for about $1. Very cheap. Everyone knows that vegetables are good for you but do people turn that knowledge into action? No, they do not. They just buy crap because they want crap. There are consequences that come with eating crap, which basically is: getting fat and ill. It is just as cheap to eat relatively well than it is to buy crappy burgers from the golden arches every day.

 

Also, working out is free. Go for a walk ora run or get hold of a bicycle or a second hand home workout video - these things are very cheap.

 

Just STOP pushing the blame on to others - nothing needs to be subsidized, large companies do not need to take the blame. IT is YOUR body - YOUR responsibility - nobody elses. I am tired of this 'but I deserve it' instant gratification culture. Newsflash: you do NOT deserve it. Your body does deserve better, however.

 

Fine by me if a person is fat - it is none of my business but for goodness sake at least don't lie to yourself - we are dealing with cause and effect here - choose to eat fat and sugar and salt and never work out and you will GET FAT.

[brainygirl]

I really dislike when people say that body type is not "normal". I've known quite a few girls and guys who have had a lot of difficulty in gaining and maintaining a "normal" weight, myself included; they were quite skinny and rumors spread about them having eating disorders, but they ate just as heartily as the next person. How can someone say that those people don't have a genetically predetermined condition, or that they're not "normal"?

 

We're all so used to seeing a bunch of fat people walking around that if we spot a naturally thin/skinny person we automatically come to the conclusion that they must be starving themselves, that they're not "normal". Ugh.

 

I think its funny that its ok to be naturally thin to the point of looking unhealthy, but then say that all fat people are lazy.

 

There is a genetic predisposition for some people to put on weight and for those people to maintain a "healthy" weight they have to do and "unhealthy" ie: extreme, amount of dieting and exercise. The BMI scale that doctors like so much is completely flawed and was developed by a mathematician not a doctor. Being under weight is more strongly associated with premature mortality than being overweight (not super obese, just overweight).

 

Do we have a responsibility to be as healthy as we can? yes we do. Should that effort be so painful and so obcessive that the person doing it feels deprived of all live's pleasures, guilt ridden when they mess up, and miserable? No it shouldn't.

 

But since fat bashing is one of the last acceptable things to do in this country and since our definition of beauty is so narrow, its going to keep happening.

[wolfiii]

I think weight isnt an issue for myself in dating.

 

Im very thin thru illness I used to be nearly double the size in weight so I know how self concious it can make you on both ends of the scale.

 

As I have started dating I have met so called full figured lasses and I honestly think their stunning. I dont really go for the very thin anyway. I have noticed they do have self confdence problems and get very suprised when you tell them how pretty they are. with yea but Im big...and? I think alot of it is in your head as until very very recently I didnt like how I looked either but when other people tell you how attractive you are etc.. thats when you believe in yourself abit more. Self asteem I think and it doesnt matter if you are so called fat or not. Id much rather have a larger lady to cuddle anytime

 

I actually look for it on dating profile now, full figured etc.. I think their more of a laugh as well

[torranceshipman]

I think its funny that its ok to be naturally thin to the point of looking unhealthy, but then say that all fat people are lazy.

 

No it isn't. People criticize thin people a lot.

 

There is a genetic predisposition for some people to put on weight and for those people to maintain a "healthy" weight they have to do and "unhealthy" ie: extreme, amount of dieting and exercise.

 

This isn't strictly true and can be changed notably with exercise, as the more muscle you have, the faster your metabolic rate and the more you need to eat to maintain your current weight. People have a LOT of control over this.

 

Do we have a responsibility to be as healthy as we can? yes we do. Should that effort be so painful and so obcessive that the person doing it feels deprived of all live's pleasures, guilt ridden when they mess up, and miserable? No it shouldn't.

 

Sorry but if you think eating healthy nutritious food is the worst thing that you have to go through, then you must have a pretty good life. Eating healthy and exercising isn't 'so painful and obsessive' - unless you are doing it wrong. Sure, it takes some will power and despite what our culture tells us, we aren't all owed instant gratification every second of our life. Sometimes we need to say 'no'. Life's pleasures, in terms of food, can ALWAYS include treats. But they simply need to be eaten in moderation.

 

People will always criticize fat people because it is just not natural to be fat and some public health systems are literally disabled by the cost of caring for vast numbers of overweight people who have weight related pathologies. Personally I say live and let live but it is simply irrational and going against logic to say that people should stay fat, or that it is fine to be fat, because it simply isnt.

[zengirl]

Are you kidding me? People have a choice. How expensive is it to buy frozen vegetables, for example? Not very. Walk into any store and you'll find them there for about $1. Very cheap.

 

....

 

Just STOP pushing the blame on to others - nothing needs to be subsidized, large companies do not need to take the blame. IT is YOUR body - YOUR responsibility - nobody elses.

 

With subsidies: Actually, the issue is more what we already do subsidize. McDonalds, via corn (and a long drawn out process of where that corn goes and why) is subsidized. Food costs on certain foods, usually the unhealthy ones, are kept low. Because of subsidies, it becomes cheaper to raise low quality cattle, and meat is lower quality and less healthy, too. Since farm subsidies aren't going away, we might as well shift them into a healthier alternative, which would be feasible.

 

Also, frozen vegetables (while low in calories, still, and healthy enough, sure) aren't nearly as good for you as fresh vegetables. A lot of the nutrients are lost.

 

But, generally, yes, nobody needs to be morbidly obese, even if they're poor. Poverty can contribute to being undernourished, though (while thin, fat, or anywhere in between). Most Americans are undernourished. Truly nourishing foods are few and far between in the American supermarket.

[allina]

 

There is a genetic predisposition for some people to put on weight

 

The issue is that no one has a genetic predisposition to be 50-100 lbs. overweight! Some people gain weight easier than others, some people have to work harder to maintain a healthy weight, but no one is naturally obese. I can understand that due to genetics some people are prone to carrying an extra 5-10 lbs. However, when I hear of someone who is significantly overweight blaming genetics I think that they are avoiding responsibility or completely unaware of how horribly they are eating.

[Untouchable_Fire]

With subsidies: Actually, the issue is more what we already do subsidize. McDonalds, via corn (and a long drawn out process of where that corn goes and why) is subsidized. Food costs on certain foods, usually the unhealthy ones, are kept low. Because of subsidies, it becomes cheaper to raise low quality cattle, and meat is lower quality and less healthy, too. Since farm subsidies aren't going away, we might as well shift them into a healthier alternative, which would be feasible.

 

Plus the corn we grow is genetically modified to a point where it is high calorie low nutrient. Somebody needs to stop the corporate farms...

 

Do you realize how much the U.S. would save in healthcare costs if we fixed our food supply? Diabetes and Obesity are nearly 1/4 of our spend... and it's growing rapidly.

 

Also, frozen vegetables (while low in calories, still, and healthy enough, sure) aren't nearly as good for you as fresh vegetables. A lot of the nutrients are lost.

 

I've never seen evidence of this. I can imagine the proteins would denature, but the vitamins and minerals are not going anywhere.

[zengirl]

Plus the corn we grow is genetically modified to a point where it is high calorie low nutrient. Somebody needs to stop the corporate farms...

 

Do you realize how much the U.S. would save in healthcare costs if we fixed our food supply? Diabetes and Obesity are nearly 1/4 of our spend... and it's growing rapidly.

 

 

 

I've never seen evidence of this. I can imagine the proteins would denature, but the vitamins and minerals are not going anywhere.

 

I realize my wording was bad on the frozen thing. They're not less nutritious because they're frozen, but many of the brands (especially the cheaper ones that the poster mentioned) have the added sodium and/or sugars. You can flash-freeze vegetables and they're the same quality, for the most part, but the cheaper brands are rarely purely flash-frozen and then packaged. They also tend to be the ones of a poorer quality to begin with, before being flash-frozen.

[SpanksTheMonkey]

 

But since fat bashing is one of the last acceptable things to do in this country and since our definition of beauty is so narrow, its going to keep happening.

 

I know its bad kinda like when people put down disabled people no? sorry brainy I just couldn't help the irony here.. Point being live and let live people will lose weight if they choose to ok im out of here im not getting looped back into this thread..

[allina]

Plus the corn we grow is genetically modified to a point where it is high calorie low nutrient. Somebody needs to stop the corporate farms...

 

Well, that somebody is us. Money talks. When people stop buying all that crap it will stop being profitable and things will change.

 

It's so sad to see an overweight family at the grocery store and to look at their cart and see the garbage they are buying for themselves and their kids. People need to be more responsible for their choices.

 

I've never seen evidence of this. I can imagine the proteins would denature, but the vitamins and minerals are not going anywhere.

 

Frozen veggies are healthy, and maintain their nutritional value, especially since they are frozen at the peak of freshness

[MrNate]

I like to believe in the personal choices people make. I believe most adults know the concept of bad foods making you fat. It also doesn't help due to the vast amounts of technology advancements we've made, our lifestyles have become increasingly sedentary. But what makes it bad is that we tend to work long hours..and have families. So I'm sure people can see how this is a recipe for disaster.

 

I think if you want to see a greater shift in the quality of food, then there will ultimately need to be a shift of jobs from the nonfarm to the farm sector. But I highly doubt people are willing to due massive amounts of labor in the weather, instead of being in an office in the air conditioning. And we can't raise the price of food significantly, hence subsidies. As long as these factors are in place, as well as others, fast food franchises aren't going anywhere.

 

So I think in our life style of convenience and instant gratification, the best idea would be to make a commitment to a healthy lifestyle, and your food choices as such. You can't really blame McDonald's any more than the person pulling into its drive-thru. "How important is your personal health?" is a question that many people don't ask themselves, nor do they care about. Obviously, many corporations prowl on these. It will only get worse before it gets better, unless there's a huge shift in the mentality of our diet.

[MrNate]

Well, that somebody is us. Money talks. When people stop buying all that crap it will stop being profitable and things will change.

 

It's so sad to see an overweight family at the grocery store and to look at their cart and see the garbage they are buying for themselves and their kids. People need to be more responsible for their choices.

 

 

 

Frozen veggies are healthy, and maintain their nutritional value, especially since they are frozen at the peak of freshness

 

Yep. It's going to take some drastic changes for this mentality to alter. And I definitely agree with you on the children part, especially when they start developing a sense of self awareness, and they realize they're fat! That can't be asking for a great childhood. I know I had to deal with many an insults just because I was chubby at the time genetically..

 

And you're on with the frozen vegetables. They can be frozen and still be great. Now when we start talking about pesticides and other things being used to keep them fresh, then we have issues.

[RedDevil66]

With subsidies: Actually, the issue is more what we already do subsidize. McDonalds, via corn (and a long drawn out process of where that corn goes and why) is subsidized. Food costs on certain foods, usually the unhealthy ones, are kept low. Because of subsidies, it becomes cheaper to raise low quality cattle, and meat is lower quality and less healthy, too. Since farm subsidies aren't going away, we might as well shift them into a healthier alternative, which would be feasible.

 

Also, frozen vegetables (while low in calories, still, and healthy enough, sure) aren't nearly as good for you as fresh vegetables. A lot of the nutrients are lost.

 

But, generally, yes, nobody needs to be morbidly obese, even if they're poor. Poverty can contribute to being undernourished, though (while thin, fat, or anywhere in between). Most Americans are undernourished. Truly nourishing foods are few and far between in the American supermarket.

 

 

Incorrect, I'm 6 months out of being a Naturopathic doctor and I have a nutrition background and will tell you that frozen veggies are actually AS nutritious as fresh. Fresh offer the enzyme properties of raw eating which you can't get with the frozen, but the frozen offer a higher vitamin / mineral content because they are "flash frozen" and vit's min. are lost in the "ship to table" time.

 

Poor people don't eat bad because they are poor, poor people eat bad because they are uneducated about health.

[RedDevil66]

I realize my wording was bad on the frozen thing. They're not less nutritious because they're frozen, but many of the brands (especially the cheaper ones that the poster mentioned) have the added sodium and/or sugars. You can flash-freeze vegetables and they're the same quality, for the most part, but the cheaper brands are rarely purely flash-frozen and then packaged. They also tend to be the ones of a poorer quality to begin with, before being flash-frozen.

 

read this after I posted.

[SpanksTheMonkey]

Ok maybe one more post... I have to say when I go food shopping I notice the cost of healthy/vs not as healthy choices some of those bottled waters cost more then a bottle of coke I usually drop at least 20 bucks just getting my fresh produce.

 

The meat isle well we don't get out of there with out a 60 buck drop im not even going to get into cheese and fish forget it its a "treat" I don't care what some say eating "healthy" is more expensive maybe not by allot but I notice the difference.

[allina]

some of those bottled waters cost more then a bottle of coke I usually drop at least 20 bucks just getting my fresh produce.

 

The meat isle well we don't get out of there with out a 60 buck drop im not even going to get into cheese and fish forget it its a "treat" I don't care what some say eating "healthy" is more expensive maybe not by allot but I notice the difference.

 

Well you don't need the bottled water OR the coke, so that saves money. $60 for meat, ok, for how many people? For how long? Unless it's for a month or you're buying the best sea bass or fancy cuts of beef that's excessive.

 

I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just confused by your post

[RedDevil66]

Ok maybe one more post... I have to say when I go food shopping I notice the cost of healthy/vs not as healthy choices some of those bottled waters cost more then a bottle of coke I usually drop at least 20 bucks just getting my fresh produce.

 

The meat isle well we don't get out of there with out a 60 buck drop im not even going to get into cheese and fish forget it its a "treat" I don't care what some say eating "healthy" is more expensive maybe not by allot but I notice the difference.

 

24 bottles of Naya water on sale is $2.50 for 24.

24 cans of soda $7.99

 

Healthy is NOT more expensive. It's a matter of educating yourself on healthier choices and you will see, it's less or equal to

[RedDevil66]

p.s. I do not adovcate red meat so can't make any comments there.

 

But a cut of cow is more expensive than a nice pc of healthy tilapia. Which is about 1/3 the price

[nddb]

Part of the "thin Asian girl" thing is genetics, though. They can get chubby/flabby just like anybody, but it'd be hard for them to be a Size 12/14.

 

Yes, they are lucky in that respect. I forgot that.

 

I have seen unhealthy Asian women in the US though, and even in Asia now that packaged/fast food is more commonplace. Genetics only carry you so far. So it's true that they can get chubby if put in an environment that promotes heavy eating/low exercise.

 

My wife is Asian and she eats from a small traditional bowl the size of a coffee mug. She's pushing 50 but still maintains pretty much the same weight as in her 20's. I on the other eat like a savage when she's not around--or so she says. So I agree with you about portion sizing.

[brainygirl]

The issue is that no one has a genetic predisposition to be 50-100 lbs. overweight! Some people gain weight easier than others, some people have to work harder to maintain a healthy weight, but no one is naturally obese. I can understand that due to genetics some people are prone to carrying an extra 5-10 lbs. However, when I hear of someone who is significantly overweight blaming genetics I think that they are avoiding responsibility or completely unaware of how horribly they are eating.

 

You really think the human race is so homogeneous that there is only a five to ten pound variance in weight to height ratios?

 

Look at the wide difference in skin tones, height, hair texture, build and tell me that there isn't also going to be a wide variety of set point weight?

 

Did you know that some ethnic groups who have a history of facing famine have much greater instances of obesity and diabetes than other groups? That's because when you are starving the ability to store calories and sugar is life saving.

 

I'm not saying that we don't all make our own choices. I am saying that to assert that only one body type is healthy and that all others are 1) unhealthy and 2) a sign of poor character is moronic.

[allina]

p.s. I do not adovcate red meat so can't make any comments there.

 

But a cut of cow is more expensive than a nice pc of healthy tilapia. Which is about 1/3 the price

 

Now I'm confused, was STM referring to meat and cheese as healthy or not healthy?

 

I do not eat cow/pig or any other mammal, though that's more because I love animals. I do eat fish, seafood and occasionally turkey or chicken. I'm not very budget conscious when grocery shopping but my (mostly) healthy groceries aren't very expensive.

[RedDevil66]

Now I'm confused, was STM referring to meat and cheese as healthy or not healthy?

 

I do not eat cow/pig or any other mammal, though that's more because I love animals. I do eat fish, seafood and occasionally turkey or chicken. I'm not very budget conscious when grocery shopping but my (mostly) healthy groceries aren't very expensive.

 

Acutally not sure if he meant it was healthy or not.

 

I'm like you, I eat no other meat, but a little chicken and some fish. I was a strict vegetarian for years though.

Then a chicken pecked me and I said "You're all going on the bbq"...kidding!

 

I live alone, shop super healthy and I spend about $40 a week on food. And I NEVER eat out and make my own lunches.

I will go to Costco once a month to stock up on salmon and chicken.

[allina]

You really think the human race is so homogeneous that there is only a five to ten pound variance in weight to height ratios?

 

 

Of course I don't think that. I'm not sure if I was unclear in my post or if you are twisting my comment around.

 

I never said that all people have to be within 5-10 lbs of each other when it comes to height/weight ratio. What I said is that I acknowledge that some people, due to genetics, might be 5-10lbs above where they should we according to bmi/healthy weight charts.

 

For example, here is a chart that shows healthy height to weight ratios http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/guidelines/obesity/bmi_tbl.pdf . I am 64 inches tall, according to the chart I should weigh between 110 and 140 lbs. That is a 30 lb. range of weights. My earlier comment stated that I could understand if a person was a couple lbs. above her target weight due to genetics.

[brainygirl]

The BMI chart is flawed. IT was developed over 200 years ago by a mathematician to track population trends in a small European country. It was not intended by the maker to be reflective of the whole human race or to be a measure of health.

 

I read your post fine. I just reject the argument. I honestly believe that people naturally fall into a wider range than allowed for by the all hallowed BMI chart.

[allina]

My earlier comment stated that I could understand if a person was a couple lbs. above her target weight due to genetics.

 

 

I read your post fine. I just reject the argument. I honestly believe that people naturally fall into a wider range than allowed for by the all hallowed BMI chart.

 

Ok..... which is what I said