Holiday Planning with a Seperated Person

[jj33]

Torrance I think there is something else there too. Sometimes when people get out of a marriage, they feel like there is a whole big world out there that they have not been apart of. But WS has said he moved there because he knew people in the community.

 

And lets face it, if he had moved very near to WS people would have said why is he moving so close, he just got out of a marriage, he needs to be on his own dont move too fast.... a no win in terms of all countries being heard from.

 

He has been doing a lot of future talk. If he is seeing someone else, then he is a scumbag and WS will dump him. Hopefully that is not the case.

 

I have historically been too easy on men but I dont think its totally unusual that someone who (assuming he was truthful) went back because his W lost her job, is allegedly trying to be sensitive to her family and religious situation is necessarily a liar because he is trying to end things gently. Misguided perhaps. But I dont think he is necessarily lying.

 

He was with her for 16 years. And he doesnt hate her. He just doesnt want to be married to her. The fact that he doesnt practice a scorched earth policy doesnt make him a weasel.

 

I disagree with not tellilng his wife he has decided and he wants a divorce (after all he left once before... it cant be a total shock) but everyone sees things differently.

 

Why assume the worst of someone WS loves? She seems like a very shrewd woman. And she has consistently made good decisions. I think that the worst thing a person can do is treat someone they are involved with like the enemy. It escalates whatever issues already exist.

[2sunny]

i'm not kidding.

 

SM has had too many inconsistencies along the way to not wonder. WS is a smart gal.

 

if WS sits still and takes his word for face value - then she MAY be wasting a lot of time in her future and set herself up for a lot of pain.

 

what is so wrong with checking on the truth when it could give her solid answers one way or the other? seems logical and smart to me at this point given the circumstances.

 

to know the truth will be her power. maybe even a lot of peace of mind if she finds nothing in her endeavor.

[wildsoul]

Thanks everyone. I'm back at the keyboard...

Oh? what's that sound you ask? That motor sound you're hearing is my new kitten purring on my lap! I was feeling lonely and anxious yesterday, imagining how sad I will be if my R ends. You see, I bought a house in a remote area and I also work from home. As much as I enjoy solitude, it's starting to feel lonely now that winter is here. So I spontaneously went to an animal rescue place yest and got a sweet orange kitten, about 4 months old. He alternates between flying thru the house and cuddling, so he's a wonderful sweet distraction.

 

My guy came over last night. We just watched a movie and helped the cat settle in. I didn't want to talk about anything, as we'd already had enough discussion this week. I'm still feeling down and drained, yanno?

 

Tonight, I'm a still a bit anxious and vulnerable. My guy left at noon to go visit his W at their home. So now it's their turn to have the heavy talk.

 

LOL, if there's any justice tonight it's that if he's going to keep 2 women in his life, then that more than doubles the heavy talks, eh? Not such good planning on his part. Double the cake but double the trouble too.

 

I don't know how she feels right now, and I'm trying not to think about it because I imagine that maybe it's romantic. I tend to dwell on the worst possibility, and there's no way I'll know if it's a fear of mine or the truth. But I do know that I have an anxious knot in my belly and my heart feels like it's already broken this week, and I cry at the drop of a hat.

 

All I can do is wait for the results now. I still predict I'm gonna' get crushed. I hope I'm wrong in the end, but this week was hard on me. It's more than strong emotions; my heart feels like it got whacked and I fell a bit out of love with him over this. I was prepared to love him through the holiday, if he felt the blues over the past. I realized our fun might be dampened. But now that he's revealed our plans were at question, I'm the one w/ the blues. Ouchie.

 

Let me clear up the reason he moved where he did. It's because he has a lifelong friend there, one who can hook him up with loads of business contacts and who shares a sport with. He didn't move because he was trying to find something halfway between his W and me. (Previously when he rented a room, THAT was a short drive from me.) Also, the town he lives in now is world-famous cute-ville. He said he was looking for a place to re-pot and help him get used to living alone again, and having a friend nearby helps. It's also been good for US, as I'm not the only source of support. I love that he's near one of his best friends.

 

Ya'll love story btw. Back in Aug when MM was looking to move, he asked his friend (who's in real estate) to help him find an apartment. So that was the first friend he told about his separation, etc. Turned out that as soon as MM was done explaining, the best friend said, "Wow, I'm so glad you told me that first!" The friend was also getting ready to seperate.

 

I really see it as an act of divine fate that he chose to move where he did! Not only does he have the friend, but now they are separaton support buddies. That took a load off me, especially as MM isn't choosing therapy--he needs other people to talk to! Oh, but it gets better...

 

His friend has started waffling on leaving his W (who I hear is an alcoholic.) My guy has been getting frustrated, trying to convince his friend to make the break like he said he wanted, but then realizing that his friend isn't keeping his word. I've been watching with quiet amusement. Clearly, my guy has a big ass mirror in front of him. Last week he said to me, "I think I'm giving up on him. I don't know how to support him to leave, when it seems I'm just enabling him to blow off steam enough to stay with her. He's full of it and it's getting tiresome." I gave him a bemused smile and said, "I know exactly how you feel."

[wildsoul]

i'm not kidding.

 

SM has had too many inconsistencies along the way to not wonder. WS is a smart gal.

 

if WS sits still and takes his word for face value - then she MAY be wasting a lot of time in her future and set herself up for a lot of pain.

 

what is so wrong with checking on the truth when it could give her solid answers one way or the other? seems logical and smart to me at this point given the circumstances.

 

to know the truth will be her power. maybe even a lot of peace of mind if she finds nothing in her endeavor.

The reason it's wrong for me is because it would be crossing an unhealthy boundary. I think if I was that worked up, then that's already a sign that it's seriously messes up. If we were married and I needed to know if he was faithful, perhaps. But to spend time/money stalking or PI-ing a BF? Seems inappropriate to me.

 

BTW, another reason is my personal history. The one xBF that I knew cheated on me messed me up pretty good. We dated around 2.5 years, and lived together for a few months of that. They should name a roller coaster after that guy! He was up/down, chasing me, then breaking up with me. Crazy-making. I kept accusing him of cheating and he denied, so I took to spying. OMG. First of all, if I ever wanted a career change, I'd make an excellent PI. I'm detailed and persistent. But it became an obesssion for me, one that made me sick. Finally, I found the irrefutable evidence after I'd been spying for months. Anyway, after watching myself turn into someone I didn't like, I swore no more spying for me.

 

Sure there've been a couple moments when it crossed my mind to drive over to his place unannounced. The hour drive sounds long, but it's not for me because I live out in the countryside. It's not a distance problem. It's that I swore not to turn into that girl again. So how I deal with it now is to accept that IF he's cheating on me, I have faith that my higher-power will show me, without me having to turn into a stalker. I can't swear that I'll never do it, but if I cross that line, I think it tells me enough.

 

FWIW, I met my husband after that cheater BF, and I never spied on my H. Those worries weren't there. So I also think that a lot of those fears are based a lot on the partner. It's interesting how jealous I can sometimes be, but then not with every guy. My current one is admittedly high risk.

[norajane]

FWIW, I met my husband after that cheater BF, and I never spied on my H. Those worries weren't there. So I also think that a lot of those fears are based a lot on the partner. It's interesting how jealous I can sometimes be, but then not with every guy. My current one is admittedly high risk.

 

May I ask, how on earth could you stand being with him when he was still living with his wife? Didn't your jealousy just make you crazy then?

[wildsoul]

May I ask, how on earth could you stand being with him when he was still living with his wife? Didn't your jealousy just make you crazy then?

Do you mean the guy I'm with now?

 

I wasn't jealous before because it really seemed they are over. He had already moved out (sorta kinda ) last April. And I do know this: my guy is crazy in love with me. I didn't feel jealous of his W, and the time when there was true overlap was only 3 months.

 

However, I have been jealous and worried about him pursuing other women. I've wondered if I am just the first in a string. He was really pent up before.

 

Only now am I jealous of her, and that's VERY recent. This Thanksgiving thing triggered it.

[2sunny]

when do you expect to hear the outcome of his meeting with her today? if he has any regard for your position and feelings he would make you privy of the info as soon as they finish their talk.

 

did he say when he would call or see you next?

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Congrats on the new kitten! :bunny: That was a fabulous idea! Great job for choosing a rescue from a shelter! How neat is that!

[frannie]

I am now officially jealous. A NEW KITTEN??????? :bunny: hahaha. Love it!

[whichwayisup]

However, I have been jealous and worried about him pursuing other women. I've wondered if I am just the first in a string. He was really pent up before.

 

This will never go away until he divorces, gets counselling and you two slow it down. If not, you'll ALWAYS wonder if he is going to cheat on you. Someone he works with, speaks to on occasion, women friends etc.. Are you his first and only affair? Or has he cheated before?

 

Only now am I jealous of her, and that's VERY recent. This Thanksgiving thing triggered it.

 

But this is all HIS doing. He is making you feel insecure and unsure of what will happen next week, next month, next year because HE CANNOT decide who it is he wants.

[torranceshipman]

A new kitten, that sounds gorgeous I can imagine workin at home and living somewhere remote is making you obsess over this situation way more than you would otherwise...it sounds like a tough situation to be in...

 

I really wish you weren't in a R like this - remember how it feels to be with a guy that makes you feel loved, secure, like a priority, who doesnt make you feel on eggshells the whole time? Who doesnt have you on a rollercoaster and feeling very jealous most of the time and who isnt an emotional drain? I think this guy is a classic emotional drain!! It's like you've had to take on all his baggage, and even when you were sensible and walked, he's always done whatever to get you back...but then as soon as he thinks he's got you back on side, it's back to the crappiness.

That jealousy you feel is intuition, I swear....It's his cake eating behavior and unwillingness to go the extra mile to reassure you (in fact, a total absence of reassurance) that is causing that miserable feeling as it doesnt bode well at all...

 

I am a big fan of you doing the PI thing in this one particular circumstance, as maybe you'd find nothing but then again if you did get concrete proof of something bad, you wouldnt waste a single day more on this guy. Don;t get me wrong-if he started treating you like a princess tomorrow then great, I'd be in favor of this whole R, but its just rubbish seeing someone so miserable, all over a stupid guy who cant see the value of what he has-and imagining how HAPPY you'd be if you let this one go and found another much lovelier guy who;d treat you right...

[wildsoul]

The silent telephone is deafening. It matters not that my head has been telling me all along to prepare myself for disappointment. Logically, I know there is nothing to wait for from him, as the answer is clear. If he'd have worked it out that he was spending Thanksgiving with me, he would have called to tell me by now--I'm sure of it. Conversely, he must be avoiding me because he doesn't want to have the heavy talk now.

 

I feel sick. This is a deep ouchie. I'm afraid I'm going to absolutely fall apart.

[2sunny]

The silent telephone is deafening. It matters not that my head has been telling me all along to prepare myself for disappointment. Logically, I know there is nothing to wait for from him, as the answer is clear. If he'd have worked it out that he was spending Thanksgiving with me, he would have called to tell me by now--I'm sure of it. Conversely, he must be avoiding me because he doesn't want to have the heavy talk now.

 

I feel sick. This is a deep ouchie. I'm afraid I'm going to absolutely fall apart.

 

please say you are joking WS!!!!

 

he didn't call at all? OMG! (((((((((((((((WS)))))))))))))))

 

don't fall apart honey... i am afraid this is what we all could potentially see coming and tried to warn you about. have a good cry and keep posting.

 

if it makes it easier to have some clarity or to set new boundaries - then re-evaluate.

 

i could smack him silly right now! and that is even coming from my BS position so that tells a lot.

 

bottom line is - we are women with boundaries designed to keep us safe and sane and happy. remember the priority and don't give in if you have to give the priority away for the man.

 

you are a great gal with so much to offer a deserving man - heal and move forward. we are here to support your happiness... whatever that may look like to you.

[whichwayisup]

I mirror sunny's reply!

 

WS, he's a real sh*t and all honesty, doesn't deserve your love and energy. Yes, I know you love him, but is he really a great prize? Look how he's handled everything! He's hurt you, hurt his wife and nothing about his so called separation has really changed. For all you know his wife STILL COULD be under the impression they're on a 'break' and having some space. Who knows if he IS telling her the marriage IS over and the separation is leading to divorce, not getting back together.

 

Not sure if hiring a PI is worth it, if anything, get a trusted friend to follow him, see what's what.

[2sunny]

even my gut yesterday was saying that he would at least spend the night with his W, since they had a meeting set up and he wants to make things "appear" normal to her. that is why i recommended following him to find the truth.

 

but why has he not at least called today? does that mean he is still with her now?

 

he at least owes you the courtesy of a call. he doesn't even have the decency for that?

 

sheeeez, WS just come to my house for turkey day - we'll have a great time. tell him to go F himself... sorry - i'm mad that he's such a dork!

[mytruelove]

OMG my stomach is in knots and i'm not even you. no matter what, keep your head up and keep walking forward.

 

i feel like you and i have a lot in common and i know you are trying just as hard as you can to be the very best person you can be. i know you've done and are doing the work.

 

keep the faith, all the growth, struggles, and hard work WILL pay off, even if it doesn't seem like it at the moment.

 

your doing the very best you can. be strong.

 

i love this....

 

"we are women with boundaries designed to keep us safe and sane and happy"...

 

that's the very best definition of boudaries and setting them i've ever heard. remember, the very purpose of boudaries.....

 

to always love ourselves first and more than any other person. we have to do that. what a long time it is taken me to learn that one.

 

it's a long process, but one i know we are working on and will bring us great rewards.

 

we're all here for you.

[wildsoul]

I really wish you weren't in a R like this - remember how it feels to be with a guy that makes you feel loved, secure, like a priority, who doesnt make you feel on eggshells the whole time? Who doesnt have you on a rollercoaster and feeling very jealous most of the time and who isnt an emotional drain? I think this guy is a classic emotional drain!! It's like you've had to take on all his baggage, and even when you were sensible and walked, he's always done whatever to get you back...but then as soon as he thinks he's got you back on side, it's back to the crappiness.

That jealousy you feel is intuition, I swear....It's his cake eating behavior and unwillingness to go the extra mile to reassure you (in fact, a total absence of reassurance) that is causing that miserable feeling as it doesnt bode well at all...

 

I am a big fan of you doing the PI thing in this one particular circumstance, as maybe you'd find nothing but then again if you did get concrete proof of something bad, you wouldnt waste a single day more on this guy. Don;t get me wrong-if he started treating you like a princess tomorrow then great, I'd be in favor of this whole R, but its just rubbish seeing someone so miserable, all over a stupid guy who cant see the value of what he has-and imagining how HAPPY you'd be if you let this one go and found another much lovelier guy who;d treat you right...

Thank you. It helps getting a man's opinion too.

 

The majority of the time, he DOES treat me like a princess. We have so much love and affection. He's really amazing and wonderfully expressive. He can be uncanny in how well he reads me and makes clear efforts to please and appreciate me. When we're together, he gives me lots of praise and validation. In so many ways, he's the perfect man for me. When it's good, I think I want to spend my life with him.

 

But the reality is that this R has some serious problems. Almost all of them have been due to the A-dynamic, for which I am not suited. The other big concern is he isn't very good at conflict resolution. He can be so intuitive and gentle with me, really good at communicating sometimes! But when we have a conflict, his coping skills are sub-par. I need to improve there too, but at least I've done quite a bit of personal development work. When it's bad, I think it would be a long hard road if we don't learn how to resolve conflicts more smoothly.

 

I'm really hurting today. Maybe he was just my transitional boyfriend. I dated a few guys after my marriage. This guy IS one of the most important loves of my life. I'm trying to let go of my attachment right now, even though I don't want to yet. I feel really sick to my core.

[wildsoul]

but why has he not at least called today? does that mean he is still with her now?

Why doesn't even matter. The avoidance is obvious enough. If it was decided that he was spending T-day with me, he would have called. Even if he was worn out from the heavy talk with her, because then he'd get positive validation from me. Certainly he'd have gone out to walk the dog and called me. So now it's just a game of him deferring delivering the bad news until the time feels convenient.

 

I haven't called him of course. The later in the day that it gets, the more it hurts, even though my head has it all figured out.

[2sunny]

your head figured it out already? you are way better than i would be in this case. good for you.

 

what have you decided? care to share?

 

you are correct in pointing out the obvious (my bad) which is that when i ask WHY??? it keeps me in my past. when i ask HOW can i make this different? that is when i make progress.

[norajane]

But the reality is that this R has some serious problems. Almost all of them have been due to the A-dynamic, for which I am not suited. The other big concern is he isn't very good at conflict resolution. He can be so intuitive and gentle with me, really good at communicating sometimes! But when we have a conflict, his coping skills are sub-par. I need to improve there too, but at least I've done quite a bit of personal development work. When it's bad, I think it would be a long hard road if we don't learn how to resolve conflicts more smoothly.

 

You can do something about one of those issues. Take your power back! END the affair. Tell him you won't see him anymore until he's filed for divorce, and can show you the proof.

 

As for his conflict resolution issues, I'm guessing a vast majority of MM's have that problem. Otherwise, they wouldn't get into affairs. They'd just deal with their marital problems one way or another, like allllllll those other people that get divorces without being in affairs first, regardless of financial issues, regardless of child issues, regardless of family/social repercussions. They just get the damned divorce if they want it bad enough. So his conflict resolution skills aren't likely to improve much. You want to sign up for a lifetime of that?

 

I'm sorry you're hurting today. ((((hugs)))

[jj33]

Wild so sorry you are hurting. Nothing worse than silence and a man who cant man up and face the music.

 

You deserve better darling. Much better. So if hes not dead or in a coma (the only plausible excusees) he better be careful or a band of us will find him and put him there...

 

Big hugs

[mytruelove]

i'm getting so many valuable things from this thread......

 

"you are correct in pointing out the obvious (my bad) which is that when i ask WHY??? it keeps me in my past. when i ask HOW can i make this different? that is when i make progress."

 

wow...brilliant. the WHY's do nothing but keep us stuck and from moving into action in the HOW

[wildsoul]

Take your power back! END the affair.

The pisser is that I thought I did end the affair!!!! In JULY.

[2sunny]

The pisser is that I thought I did end the affair!!!! In JULY.

 

don't beat yourself up WS! stay in the moment given the evidence for now.

 

set new boundaries designed to keep you in a healthy place.

[wildsoul]

I finally caved and called him. No answer, which is the emotional slap in the face that I was hoping to avoid. Predictable. Entirely predictable.

 

It matters not in the scheme of things, but I wonder if he knows how much his avoidance is hurting me, or if he's not thinking of me at all. I lose entire days when I'm upset. Unflattering, but true.