Women, dating, failure, unrealistic expectations.

[Angel1111]

Well, maybe you should read some of the other threads on here in which women are arguing tooth and nail that age DOES NOT matter.

 

And about being intellectual...

 

It really depends on your frame of reference. Germany is the only place that I have been in which people read out loud to each other while passing a book around, INSTEAD of watching television. They view TV watching as a waste of time. A girl who never attended college there, is far more intellectual than an MBA grad here. Not to mention speaking 2 or 3 languages fluently is common.

 

Having dated plenty of American career women with advanced degrees, I can conclude that the vast majority have LITTLE interest in intellectual pursuits. Unless you call watching the Bachelor, talking about office drama, reading Cosmo, and eating out at restaurants "Intellectual" pursuits.

 

These are the same women that then claim they need a man that is "Intellectual". Actually a 7th grader can converse with them about the Bachelor, Hair color, and listen to office drama stories perfectly well.

 

If you ever watched TV in Germany, or England for that matter, you might understand this idea about TV....

 

Well, for as many women in the US who don't speak 3 languages, there are just as many men who don't either. This is not totally the fault of Americans, but more our educational system. Also, the US isn't a small country with contiguous foreign-speaking countries on just about every side. With several thousands of miles between Canada and Mexico, the need to learn the language of our neighboring countries does not feel quite so urgent.

 

I took French in high school but I barely remember any of it because I can't hop in my car and take a weekend trip to France. Europeans learn those languages because its part of their educational system and because those countries are closely bound together. Big difference between them and the US.

 

As far as the shallow minded women who can only talk about the most pathetic shows on TV, walk away from them. They wouldn't get 2 seconds of my attention. Yes, these shows wouldn't exist if there weren't such a huge audience for them - which I personally find frightening. The truth is, though, that a lot of men are attracted to these women which only encourages them to continue behaving this way.

 

Just because you can have an interesting conversation with a cab driver does not mean he is capable of directing his own life in the way he wants it to go. It doesn't mean he knows what he wants or can provide for his family. I was married to a man with the IQ of 170 but he continually screwed up his life in one way or another. I'll say it again, there is something unique about people who rise to the top because they are incredibly focused. And what some women are attracted to with these men is their power and control. It translates into security, which is a basic instinct for most women - whether you approve of that or not.

 

But just as appealing to a woman could be a man who runs a farm and loves doing it. I don't think it's all about the money for women - it's about a man being sure of himself and knowing how to accomplish what he wants. This is so attractive to women because it tells her that this is a mature man who is in control of his own life.

 

Do women always make good choices? No because we're often naive and easily fooled. Why do women leave bad relationships before men do? Because men feel responsible for their family and most men take that very seriously. Society does not put that responsibility on women so they feel freer to leave when they want out. Men, on the other hand, usually feel trapped and end up cheating because they see it as the only way to get relief from a bad situation.

 

I don't even know how it's possible for anyone not to know that the US was involved in WWII. That girl must've been asleep from the 5th grade on.

 

So, assuming you're American, do YOU sit around reading and passing books around with your buddies? My former English husband used to love to poke fun at the way Americans did things but, funnily enough, when he lived in the States, he started doing exactly the same things. I admire the education in Europe but the lack of it here doesn't have anything to do with the ignorant women you seem to encounter on a regular basis. You probably just need to learn to be more discerning. There are stupid people everywhere.

[Woggle]

Most of those cab drivers can't stand American women either. I remember talking to this eastern european cab driver once and he was asking me how men can even tolerate them. Eastern europeans of both genders are some of the coolest people you could meet. They come down to the shore in the summer to work and they are good people.

[Angel1111]

Most of those cab drivers can't stand American women either. I remember talking to this eastern european cab driver once and he was asking me how men can even tolerate them. Eastern europeans of both genders are some of the coolest people you could meet. They come down to the shore in the summer to work and they are good people.

 

That's such a shame because American women are just dying to be with these foreign cab drivers. I know it's been my dream for years now.

 

If you hate American women so much, then you probably should probably stop dating them.

[Woggle]

I don't hate all American but the truth of the matter is that a good number of them are just nightmares to be involved with. Also some of these drivers own their cabs and make more money than your average corporate suit.

[KinAZ]

After having said all that above, I would like to add a really funny story that epitomizes exactly what I think the OP is talking about.

 

I'm a manager at the company I work for. A few yrs ago, we were going through a stressful time because of a huge growth in business, so I called an agency to send someone over on a temp basis, sight unseen. The woman they sent wasn't someone I would've hired but she worked for our needs at the time. This girl was truly trashy. She always looked like crap, dressed like crap, had oily hair, out-dated hair style, never wore make-up, never attempted to look good, and was about 30 lbs overweight. Her kids and life were a mess and she constantly had some kind of drama going on at all times.

 

Someone at the office told me that this woman constantly perused the millionaires.com dating website. Who even knew such a site existed??? Well, she did. But I was completely shocked that she would think for one second that she could be with a man like this - a man who has his pick of women and usually wants someone with looks and depth - when she made zero attempts at looking appealing or even be somewhat interesting to talk to, or at the minimum, lose the drama.

 

One day I was sitting at her desk talking to her and she was asking me if there were any good looking men in the office bldg (please note her emphasis on good looking). I told her there were a few but most of the men in our office were all married. She then pointed out that the president of our company - whom she had never met - was a handsome man (she saw a picture of him on the website). I know this man very well and he's a good friend. We're actually very attracted to one another but he's married so.....sigh....oh well. Anyway, because I know him so well, I also know how picky he is about people in general and the thought of this woman setting her sights on him was extremely funny to me. All I managed to say to her was, "Well, he's married with 2 kids." She looked deflated and said, "Oh," and it occurred to me that she was really serious. I had to make a quick exit and walked away, trying really hard not to laugh in front of her.

 

The next time I spoke to the president of the company, I let him know about his new admirer. His comment was, "God. Tell her to take a number." This girl had no idea about what she wanted vs. what was realisitic. But, honestly, that's the first time I've ever encountered a woman who had such high expectations and was so far off the mark. She needed to come down a few thousand notches. And if she didn't want to come down, then she needed to rise up. She simply didn't get it.

 

WOW! Am I the only one who read this and found the entire thing to be gross? I don't think you even realize how disgusting you're being!

 

It's gross because you're agreeing with a valuation here and not merely a difference in class and social groupings.

 

I have a friend who is more frugal than I am. I don't care about labels, but I care about quality a lot more than she does. This is just one of many matters, but she similarly is interested in the men who are interested in the shallow women who pay attention to the oil content and attire of other women, and joke on them behind their backs to others.

 

He's saying women with nothing to offer wanting men with everything to offer. LOL.... wwwwwooooowwww.

 

A man with more money, more status, and more education, may very well have a whole lot more to choose from in quantity, not always quality. And everything you said above makes that point clearly...

[Angel1111]

WOW! Am I the only one who read this and found the entire thing to be gross? I don't think you even realize how disgusting you're being!

 

It's gross because you're agreeing with a valuation here and not merely a difference in class and social groupings.

 

I have a friend who is more frugal than I am. I don't care about labels, but I care about quality a lot more than she does. This is just one of many matters, but she similarly is interested in the men who are interested in the shallow women who pay attention to the oil content and attire of other women, and joke on them behind their backs to others.

 

He's saying women with nothing to offer wanting men with everything to offer. LOL.... wwwwwooooowwww.

 

A man with more money, more status, and more education, may very well have a whole lot more to choose from in quantity, not always quality. And everything you said above makes that point clearly...

 

 

I guess I am dumb because I don't quite get your point. What do you mean I'm "agreeing with a valuation"?

[KinAZ]

I guess I am dumb because I don't quite get your point. What do you mean I'm "agreeing with a valuation"?

 

You called this woman and her situation, and her... being (for lack of better terms) the epitome of the OP's point. A valuation is an appraisal or assessment of value or worth... and that is what he was doing with his point being that these women have nothing to offer.

 

I won't comment on the mockery or anything else, but simply restate that it is disgusting when people assess someone's worth in such a way. Sure, there are differences in class, education, style, social groupings, and so on... but all the things mentioned above... and the OP speaking specifically of worth and what other human beings actually have to offer... both based on nothing more than shallow opinions... I think what I meant was very clear. I did not mince words.

 

Once upon a time I had an interview, and everyone there was dressed appropriately except for one girl. I was astounded that she would dress the way she did, and yet expect to be taken seriously. I wondered in my mind if she just didn't know better, simply didn't have better, or really didn't care. But how does this speak of a person's worth or what she has to offer? What is the worth or value of one who finds such situations amusing?

 

My point was that what you said was sickening to me... One doesn't need to be particularly "smart" to understand that. But to each his own...

[torranceshipman]

I don't think Angel was being out of order...she was simply giving an example of a woman who DID have unrealistic expectations, to quite an unbelievable level.

 

Now I am not saying that CEO was an better than her, I am not making a value judgement of her worth, I am just saying that it is obvious there is a HUGE mismatch between her expectations and the reality of her situation. Some things just don't match: wrong as it may be, if the woman is trying to find a millionaire (itself quite a distasteful 'out for what I can get' attitude), then it is true that these men (or women, I guess!) can have the choice of any woman - and might want someone who has invested a lot in themselves in terms of their looks, education, etc etc and who they feel they would be comfortable taking to a variety of social events and know that she'll be aware of how to carry herself, etc....I am not saying this is right or wrong to dismiss the woman in the example out of hand, but the reality is, this would happen - the needs/expectations/etc of a man in question is clearly not a match with the woman in Angel's example, but that the woman in the example seems to have a sense of entitlement to something that she wont be able to get. She might be a wonderful woman, and no doubt very beautiful to someone out there, but nonetheless she is pursuing an ideal that doesn't match with reality. She does sound pretty delusional. But then anyone who goes after millionaires sounds a bit cutthroat to me!

[Angel1111]

You called this woman and her situation, and her... being (for lack of better terms) the epitome of the OP's point. A valuation is an appraisal or assessment of value or worth... and that is what he was doing with his point being that these women have nothing to offer.

 

I won't comment on the mockery or anything else, but simply restate that it is disgusting when people assess someone's worth in such a way. Sure, there are differences in class, education, style, social groupings, and so on... but all the things mentioned above... and the OP speaking specifically of worth and what other human beings actually have to offer... both based on nothing more than shallow opinions... I think what I meant was very clear. I did not mince words.

 

Once upon a time I had an interview, and everyone there was dressed appropriately except for one girl. I was astounded that she would dress the way she did, and yet expect to be taken seriously. I wondered in my mind if she just didn't know better, simply didn't have better, or really didn't care. But how does this speak of a person's worth or what she has to offer? What is the worth or value of one who finds such situations amusing?

 

My point was that what you said was sickening to me... One doesn't need to be particularly "smart" to understand that. But to each his own...

 

Ok, I can see that. And, yeah, as far as being worthy or deserving, I agree with what you're saying there. The way it epitomized the posting was her having very high standards for the man she wanted, but very low standards for herself. It was a double standard. I don't believe that she could understand the concept of appeal and good looks when it was aimed at the guy, but didn't understand it when it came to herself.

 

I understand what you're saying about people who just don't know better and were never taught - but I didn't get the impression this was the case with her. It was totally irritating to me because the man was more of an object than someone to care for, and then it just became funny when she set her sights on someone I knew.

[Angel1111]

I don't think Angel was being out of order...she was simply giving an example of a woman who DID have unrealistic expectations, to quite an unbelievable level.

 

Now I am not saying that CEO was an better than her, I am not making a value judgement of her worth, I am just saying that it is obvious there is a HUGE mismatch between her expectations and the reality of her situation. Some things just don't match: wrong as it may be, if the woman is trying to find a millionaire (itself quite a distasteful 'out for what I can get' attitude), then it is true that these men (or women, I guess!) can have the choice of any woman - and might want someone who has invested a lot in themselves in terms of their looks, education, etc etc and who they feel they would be comfortable taking to a variety of social events and know that she'll be aware of how to carry herself, etc....I am not saying this is right or wrong to dismiss the woman in the example out of hand, but the reality is, this would happen - the needs/expectations/etc of a man in question is clearly not a match with the woman in Angel's example, but that the woman in the example seems to have a sense of entitlement to something that she wont be able to get. She might be a wonderful woman, and no doubt very beautiful to someone out there, but nonetheless she is pursuing an ideal that doesn't match with reality. She does sound pretty delusional. But then anyone who goes after millionaires sounds a bit cutthroat to me!

 

Thank you. You summed that up very well. It was her intense focus on "handsome millionaires" that irked me. And then knowing the president as I know him, it became incredibly funny to me.

[KinAZ]

Ok, I can see that. And, yeah, as far as being worthy or deserving, I agree with what you're saying there. The way it epitomized the posting was her having very high standards for the man she wanted, but very low standards for herself. It was a double standard. I don't believe that she could understand the concept of appeal and good looks when it was aimed at the guy, but didn't understand it when it came to herself.

 

I understand what you're saying about people who just don't know better and were never taught - but I didn't get the impression this was the case with her. It was totally irritating to me because the man was more of an object than someone to care for, and then it just became funny when she set her sights on someone I knew.

 

You're saying the same situation, but all she mentioned was an attractive man and a nice income. Where were all the specifications about weight, wardrobe, and such? What do all millionaires on millionaires.com look like? Do you see my point yet?

[Angel1111]

A man with more money, more status, and more education, may very well have a whole lot more to choose from in quantity, not always quality. And everything you said above makes that point clearly...

 

You know, KinAZ, now that I've gone back and re-read my post, I have to agree with you that I was being pretty sarcastic. I think that was because this woman annoyed me so much and that came across in my writing. I can see why it annoyed you so much. Sorry about that.

[KinAZ]

I don't think Angel was being out of order...she was simply giving an example of a woman who DID have unrealistic expectations, to quite an unbelievable level.

 

Now I am not saying that CEO was an better than her, I am not making a value judgement of her worth, I am just saying that it is obvious there is a HUGE mismatch between her expectations and the reality of her situation. Some things just don't match: wrong as it may be, if the woman is trying to find a millionaire (itself quite a distasteful 'out for what I can get' attitude), then it is true that these men (or women, I guess!) can have the choice of any woman - and might want someone who has invested a lot in themselves in terms of their looks, education, etc etc and who they feel they would be comfortable taking to a variety of social events and know that she'll be aware of how to carry herself, etc....I am not saying this is right or wrong to dismiss the woman in the example out of hand, but the reality is, this would happen - the needs/expectations/etc of a man in question is clearly not a match with the woman in Angel's example, but that the woman in the example seems to have a sense of entitlement to something that she wont be able to get. She might be a wonderful woman, and no doubt very beautiful to someone out there, but nonetheless she is pursuing an ideal that doesn't match with reality. She does sound pretty delusional. But then anyone who goes after millionaires sounds a bit cutthroat to me!

 

My point was, and I stated it initially, and again a second time... the issue of the valuation... the OP's point. I've already stated that it's one thing to notice when someone is of a different grouping in general (as I listed), it's something different to say that this woman was the epitome of the OPs point... not worthy.

 

I agree about going after a guy when it should be CLEAR that you're not even his type, that's why I used my friend as example. It just repeatedly sets her up for a mess. This matter, however, is something else entirely...

[KinAZ]

You know, KinAZ, now that I've gone back and re-read my post, I have to agree with you that I was being pretty sarcastic. I think that was because this woman annoyed me so much and that came across in my writing. I can see why it annoyed you so much. Sorry about that.

 

Oh it's cool. If you're merely saying that there's a difference in "class" then that I can understand. I'm a brutal classist myself, whether anyone out there thinks I'm worthy to be one or not. (But it goes both ways... I don't want anyone to high in the air or too close to the ground, so to speak. For me, I think it has to do with general compatibility mostly. But yeah, there are differences which are simply annoying.)

 

My issue was with the OP's judgment of women having nothing to offer, yet having high expectations. Not everyone wants or needs the same things. I've seen couples walking around which confused the heck out of me at first glance, but they must have found something to love in one another.

[Angel1111]

My point was, and I stated it initially, and again a second time... the issue of the valuation... the OP's point. I've already stated that it's one thing to notice when someone is of a different grouping in general (as I listed), it's something different to say that this woman was the epitome of the OPs point... not worthy.

 

I agree about going after a guy when it should be CLEAR that you're not even his type, that's why I used my friend as example. It just repeatedly sets her up for a mess. This matter, however, is something else entirely...

 

I wasn't talking about her worth, I was referring to what the posting said about how women will wait for years for this dream guy at the expense of considering anyone else and wasting a lot of years (can't remember how he phrased it exactly). This is exactly what she did.

[Angel1111]

Oh it's cool. If you're merely saying that there's a difference in "class" then that I can understand. I'm a brutal classist myself, whether anyone out there thinks I'm worthy to be one or not. (But it goes both ways... I don't want anyone to high in the air or too close to the ground, so to speak. For me, I think it has to do with general compatibility mostly. But yeah, there are differences which are simply annoying.)

 

My issue was with the OP's judgment of women having nothing to offer, yet having high expectations. Not everyone wants or needs the same things. I've seen couples walking around which confused the heck out of me at first glance, but they must have found something to love in one another.

 

Regardless, I'm not into making fun of people who didn't have anyone to teach them certain things and just don't know better - and I know you're not either. You're right that what a person has to offer can be very appealing to one person, and a total turn-off for someone else. To decide that some people are deserving and others are not is wrong - everyone is deserving.

[KinAZ]

I wasn't talking about her worth, I was referring to what the posting said about how women will wait for years for this dream guy at the expense of considering anyone else and wasting a lot of years (can't remember how he phrased it exactly). This is exactly what she did.

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear, the OP... Woods or whoever started this, was talking about what people deserve. All of the requirements and likelihood aside, there was the emphasis on them not being worthy. And that's the point of his (aside from women being singled out) that I took issue with.

 

And her wanting her dream guy, well... as you said in the post following this one, everyone wants and needs different things for different reasons. Often we're all very irrational when it comes to romance in the US today anyway.

[vonerik012]

What was wrong with Angel's post? That happens in every company, everywhere.

 

Women throwing themselves at the CEO, vice president, etc. It was a perfect example. S the CEO in her story said "take a number".

 

Millions of women think because they have a vagina, they are "entitled" to anything And everything they want in a man. Don't you think it is disgusting that she is an obvious golddigger, joining millionaire.com?

[vonerik012]

There is nothing wrong with it. Some people like to live in, and are more comfortable in fantasy land.

 

However, do you feel it is better for society if everyone just holds out for a rich mate and stays single?

[vonerik012]

20409, Do you live in Ireland or the USA?

[vonerik012]

Interesting... Do they have a stereotypical view in Ireland of American women? How are Irish women? Materialistic consumers as well?

[Ally Boo]

Er, umm... the original poster maybe? That's why I said... "As far as the plumber who makes 100k".... I was replying to him and what he said about the man needing to be professional.

 

Thanks.

 

 

Ok, a few random thoughts:

 

My best friend's father is a plumber who works for himself. He is a very handsome and educated man. If you were to see him, you wouldn't believe he's a plumber. And he paid for her to go through Law School. They have a beautiful house too.

 

Every case has it's independant variables. And honestly, I have high expectations...but it was because I had such low expectations for so long, I decided which things I'd deal with and which I wouldn't. Now, my list was never as long as the one mentioned in the original post, but there were certain things that I wanted. After a while, I realized that those expectations didn't matter as much as the behaviors that I didn't like.

 

Personally, I'd rather be the old lady down the road with all the cats than to be stuck with some of the men I've dated.

 

On another note, I'd like to add that it works both ways. I can't tell you the number of times I was contacted on a personals site just to have the person decide they weren't interested anymore once they realized I was overweight... even though I have a pretty face. So, I will disagree with you on that point.

[stillafool]

Well I also didn't tell you I'm 5'0"...sooooo it's not as skinny as you think

 

Oh, well your figure sounds cute.

[Angel1111]

Interesting... Do they have a stereotypical view in Ireland of American women? How are Irish women? Materialistic consumers as well?

 

This topic is getting really old. For as many stereotypes as you think there are about American women, there are just as many about American men.

[stillafool]

I just think it is sad that nowadays when people talk of who they want to marry the word "love" never seems to be at the top of the list.