Women, dating, failure, unrealistic expectations.

[Woggle]

I'm curious - how would you feel if it was the picky woman herself who was making $80k-$100k/year? Just a freak of nature, I suppose?

 

She would still want a man that makes more than her. You date a millionare and she wants a billionare and you date a billionare and she wants a trillionare. Truth be told women seem to have the bigger problem with making more than their men than men do. Most men just want a good woman that likes sex and is tolerable to be around.

[OpenBook]

She would still want a man that makes more than her. You date a millionare and she wants a billionare and you date a billionare and she wants a trillionare. Truth be told women seem to have the bigger problem with making more than their men than men do.

 

Tell that to Mrs. John McCain!!

 

Most men just want a good woman that likes sex and is tolerable to be around.

 

What is your definition of a "good woman" then? and what do you mean by "tolerable to be around"? Those definitions can vary drastically from man to man. Expectations...

[Woggle]

Cindy Mcain is not average woman nor is Tereza Heinz Kerry. Plus they are married to politicians which means that they married into the political arena which does count for something. Fame and political power are sort of equalizers.

 

Tolerable to be around means that I can laugh and joke with her and have a good time with her without worrying if I will unwittingly spark a screaming match. Some women you can't even go out with because something you say or do will spark a fight. I could never live like that.

[OpenBook]

Tolerable to be around means that I can laugh and joke with her and have a good time with her without worrying if I will unwittingly spark a screaming match. Some women you can't even go out with because something you say or do will spark a fight. I could never live like that.

 

:lmao: I couldn't live like that either, Woggle.

[Lizzie60]

nothing exceptional about your list... it's not uncommon either..

 

1.Then , unless you are a major goldigger, he would have to be close to your age. Lets say under 40 - check

2.He would have to be straight. - check

3.He would have to be single, and not married. - doesn't matter

4.He would have to not be in a serious relationship. - doesn't matter

5.He would have to meet your height requirement..At least 5 foot 11? - check

6.He would have to be of your same race, I mean unless you meet an Indian or Chinese guy that wants to marry you and vice versa. - doesn't matter

7.He would have to be a non smoker. - check

8.Not ugly - check

9.He would have to be a "professional" Not the plumber who makes 100k. - doesn't matter

10.He would also have to WANT a relationship. If a guy has all this, with women dropping their panties all over the place, he might want to play the field. - not a requirement

11. THEN HE WOULD HAVE TO LIKE YOU AS WELL. - check

12. He must want an American woman.. Many are seeking love overseas these days. Men with money travel. - check

13. Not "creepy" - check.

 

your list is very 'common' about people on dating sites..

[Kamille]

You're going around telling people to lower their expectations and also assuming a whole wollop of stuff about both genders.

 

I don't buy it and I'm glad people around me don't either.

 

And I can't help but wonder, are you so unlucky on the dating market that you have to criticize a whole gender? What's your beef? Are you not marriage material yourself? Are you having a hard-time convincing a hot young babe to consider you mating material? Should you yourself perhaps revise your expectations of women? (they should be young, beautiful and accept to be led by men.)

[Haloandhorns85]

Quite the contrary. I provided the stats. What evidence was presented? lol

 

The numbers don't add up. As an example for the ones who take more time to catch on, lets say 50 million American women are seeking those traits. Sure, maybe they all "Deserve" it. I mean who doesnt'? And only 1 million American men have that. Well, 49 million are out of luck See?

 

And ladies, no need to be so self absorbed. The thread is about the general population, not your personal lives.

 

But, since you made it personal, and you have no problem getting these men to ask for your hand in marriage, I suggest you take them up on it soon.

 

Age is the NUMBER 1 factor men look at when choosing a mate. Yes another fact. I know, we should all just base our posts on emotions, and how we "deserve" whatever we choose.

 

 

Wrong. My dear, a fact is any statement that is absolutely true, no exceptions. And seeing as my bf wasn't concerned with age in the least little bit, that means what you said is NOT a fact..merely your opinion. It is soooo not the number 1 factor for most men, anyways. I'm sorry but that is not the first thing a man in interested in knowing, lol. Maybe it is for you, but then again...that's probably the problem here..lol.

 

Why be so rude to all of these people just because you have distorted views on women and dating? Why don't you take yourself and your bad attitude back to those dating sites you mentioned and list what appears to be your number one concern (hilariously, age!) and see how many you attract with that. Hope you get a gold-digger. :D:p

[Haloandhorns85]

Lovely, this is what you do in every thread..

 

This is called "The Charge of Irascibility" it is a feminine(and feminist ) shaming tactic aimed at men who are making too much sense in the debate. The target (the man) is accused of having anger ,resentment, undeserved or unresolved negative feelings toward women because of some past experience.

The objective of this tactic is to undermine the debate and divert the energy into a mild person attack on the target in the hope that it will all degenerate into mudlinging at which time AG can claim to be victimised and scoop in the sympathy vote from the other girls.

 

A womans age is very important to men when they are seeking a mate. Sorry. Actually the older men get, the bigger the age difference becomes. They find mid 20's to be the most beautiful.

 

 

DUDE! You obviously have issues with women! You can't see it because, it seems, you refuse to take a step back out of your psyche and see your blatant woman-hating from another's point of view. No one is trying to undermind the debate. You just have no evidence and your stats are clearly made up. Actual proof is required to have an intellectual debate. Besides, you have personally attacked every woman on here and yet you say we are personally attacking you? HA! IMO, I believe the OP is just trying to start shxt. As usual.

[Haloandhorns85]

Flesh n Bones is the only one on the entire thread that understands the point I am making.

 

 

You can ask 100 women what they expect in a man, and the vast majority will reiterate the same exact thing. Tall, handsome, "status job" "professional", "good provider" etc. They think that making 80,000-100,000 is fairly normal. That just shows no concept of reality.

 

First of all, NOBODY deserves a relationship. It isn't a right from birth.

 

Then saying you DESERVE a list of 50 things in a man because you have a vagina just adds to how ridiculous that first statement is. You hear fat girls saying it, poor girls, pretty girls, old women, etc. They all deserve this perfect man.

 

Its like all men saying "Well i deserve a woman to be between 5 foot 6 and five foot 8, 120-130, dd breasts, perfect legs, perfect skin, intelligent, submissive, and hard working. I DESERVE IT.

 

The above example would maybe be half a percent of all women. Obviously we all want it, but not enough to go around. So we settle. Do you realize how ridiculous it sounds when you all have almost identical lists that cater to one half of one percent of all males?

 

And then really believing you somehow deserve it, lol.

 

Then when you dont find it, or just casually date and have sex with no real offers, then you just say "there are no good men". Its because you are not living in reality.

 

 

DO you realize that 5 of the 8 requirements you boasted are physical characteristics? Wow, you make all men seem like shallow perverts. At least women can look past the physical, in most cases..not including morbily obese, etc., and look for traits that actually do matter in a partner and will affect the relationship. Wow...I had no idea that ALL men were so damn shallow in selecting a partner! Age and looks will lead you directly to what you deserve, a ditzy dumbass bombshell blonde who you can't hold a freakin conversation with if it doesn't include the words mall and OMG!

 

Dude...grow up. Or be single. Lol,...like you said!

[Lovely Disaster]

Woods, you are on here claiming that all of us women have these unrealistic expectations.

Not really.

I simply ask that they make a decent living and have a college education. THe college education part is simply based on my experience of dating non college educated men in the past. We didn't really have the same bond or interesting, deep conversations that I get with college educated men. In the field I work, everyone's pretty much required to have a 4 year college degree in the least (except secretaries, lunch ladies, maintenace, of course.) So...college educated people are a part of my world and social life. There are tons of college educated men out there and finding them to date hasn't been an "unrealistic expectation."

As far as salary, they just have to make a decent living. A man in my age-range should have a handle on his finances enough to not have to live paycheck to paycheck, enough to the point that going to a movie and paying for popcorn might make or break him, he has to check his bank account before we go out or says "I'm broke. Can't go, sorry. We'll have to stay in." Again, finding such men hasn't been problem.

As Star Gazer stated, I am not asking for anything that I myself can't bring to the table.

 

In the aspect of dating and relationships, there is the most important factor of chemistry and feelings. That is the most challenging aspect of dating, feeling that special "spark" for someone who also feels that way torward you. So it's a lot deeper than a list of expectations. Physical attraction is a part of that, too, as well as intellectual and emotional compatibility. I don't state "He has to be such and such height" because I have dated men in a variety of heights. I have been attracted to a variety of different looks, and sometimes it takes going out a few times to get to know the person and sometimes you do feel the spark after getting to knwo them. Other times, the lack of attraction is known right off, you just know you're not attracted.

[Kamille]

so you're not the same Woods as the one on SS right?

[Lovely Disaster]

You keep jumping around from topic to topic. At age 40, I don't consider myself undateable and am dating someone close to my age (a year and a half younger, which to me is pretty much the same age.) The men I date are dating me for me, they don't have this thing 'I want to marry a woman 10 years younger.'

It's not about what you are saying, I actually dated a millionaire a year a go who was a year older than me, and I dumped him because I didn't feel the spark.

Dating is a lot more complex, and you are basically degrading men.

There really aren't a lot of 25 year old women that want to date 40 plus year old men, that is just a fact.

I don't think people who are out there dating and in relationships are stating "OH she's too old" if they are really into the person, age is just the number.

You are stating all these ridiculous statistics yet you are getting responses from women who are dating and have the ability to say 'no, you are wrong' because what you are stating isn't our experience with relationships at all.

You are trying to tell us that because we are a certain age, the men we are with really don't want us and are really waiting for someone else to come along????

This makes no sense.

 

LOL..

 

I knew a lady who joined a site called "Marry a millionaire"

 

Then, while filling out the form, she was so offended that her weight was asked, breast size, etc. Why did she feel she just deserved a millionaire? And her physical appearance was of no importance?

 

Often times women try to think FOR men. Or try and make believe that they think the exact same way. Well, they don't.

 

And as for the age thing. I don't care if younger guys are nailing older women. It's easy, and many times the older woman buys the guy things.

 

MEN DO NOT WANT TO SETTLE DOWN WITH OLDER WOMEN. Statistics prove that. And if your younger guy won the lottery, trust me, he wouldn't be with women 10 years older. Having to argue that point is completely ridiculous.

 

SO OK. Women deserve everything on the list. Which women? Only 5% will find that. The other 95% spend time hoping for that, until they age then they have to settle for almost nothing on that list.

[KinAZ]

LOL..

 

I knew a lady who joined a site called "Marry a millionaire"

 

Then, while filling out the form, she was so offended that her weight was asked, breast size, etc. Why did she feel she just deserved a millionaire? And her physical appearance was of no importance?

 

Often times women try to think FOR men. Or try and make believe that they think the exact same way. Well, they don't.

 

And as for the age thing. I don't care if younger guys are nailing older women. It's easy, and many times the older woman buys the guy things.

 

MEN DO NOT WANT TO SETTLE DOWN WITH OLDER WOMEN. Statistics prove that. And if your younger guy won the lottery, trust me, he wouldn't be with women 10 years older. Having to argue that point is completely ridiculous.

 

SO OK. Women deserve everything on the list. Which women? Only 5% will find that. The other 95% spend time hoping for that, until they age then they have to settle for almost nothing on that list.

 

You do jump around a lot...

 

OK, you say women are unrealistic, well men are also... at least you are, anyway. You want a woman to let you take care of her, even if you don't make enough to support her and a family? Women should stay at home with the kids, and go into a marriage knowing that... but be too dumb to consider AHEAD OF TIME the cost of living for the entire family, and family to be? That's what you're saying? Women just need to be dumber...

 

You're saying that these women who are looking for these mean don't have much to offer themselves. But offer like what?! You say that all women should aspire to be SAHMs and well... maybe the ones who are looking for men in these income brackets are looking for men who can manage that. Your only requirements seem to be physical, and other than that... your ideal doesn't seem to have much to offer either! At least not anymore than your average woman could manage, aside from the fact that she can't control her height.

[OpenBook]

Or to put it another way,

 

Why should a successful man with a good income get married? What does the modern female offer him, that he needs?

 

Another income? He already makes good money.

Sex? Women are dropping their panties left and right for men with money.

Love? Men don't seek love in the way women do.

Children? Men can have children at a pretty late age. This is when they marry the younger pretty woman.

 

Women used to be a wonderful addition to a mans life. But now it seems you lose your freedoms, AND you don't get much back. Accept the feeling that you are entitled to live off of him. Then most likely divorce him and keep half.

 

The above man can travel, go out when he wants, buy what he wants, and do whatever he wants. So you better have something really wonderful to offer him for him to give all that up... Something he NEEDS.

 

And yet, most millionaires/billionaires marry anyway. Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, Richard Branson, George Sakos (or however his last name is spelled),... So what do their W's provide them with? Something they need?

[KinAZ]

Or to put it another way,

 

Why should a successful man with a good income get married? What does the modern female offer him, that he needs?

 

Another income? He already makes good money.

Sex? Women are dropping their panties left and right for men with money.

Love? Men don't seek love in the way women do.

Children? Men can have children at a pretty late age. This is when they marry the younger pretty woman.

 

Women used to be a wonderful addition to a mans life. But now it seems you lose your freedoms, AND you don't get much back. Accept the feeling that you are entitled to live off of him. Then most likely divorce him and keep half.

 

The above man can travel, go out when he wants, buy what he wants, and do whatever he wants. So you better have something really wonderful to offer him for him to give all that up... Something he NEEDS.

 

How do you NOT see how your logic is totally screwed?

 

You just go into this thing again about women being an addition to a man's life... and yet, when a woman looks for a man who has an income that can support her and a family you're saying she's being unrealistic.

 

How does that not sound illogical to you? How are you still even talking about this while not even addressing the point?

 

Have nothing to give? Have you messaged the women and asked them about their cooking skills? Their ironing and sewing skills? Their time and money management skills? Their banking skills? Shopping on a budget skills? Experience with children? Photos of the insides of their homes for proof of tidiness???? Anything at all?

 

And when you say that you do "well"... What's well for a single man is TOTALLY different from what's well for a family of 4. Women who are thinking along certain lines will think ahead. I would think that you would WANT a woman who wants a man who makes at least 75k (for now) so that he has at least enough to get a family started, or plan for one in the near future. To me, I think your ideal woman would actually be looking for such a man. So... the contradiction here would be mind boggling if you didn't dance around so much.

[Kamille]

goodness woods, what happened to you? You sound extremely bitter.

[KinAZ]

Kinaz, if you could formulate a coherent post, I would be glad to address is.

 

Obviously you STILL DON'T GET THE MAIN POINT.

 

Fine.. All women should seek men to marry that are high income earners. I guess just 5- 10% of all women will ever get married then.

 

Or do you have a way to magically make all men earn at least 75k so there are enough to go around?

 

Oh... it's coherent. You just don't want to face the fact that you're contradicting yourself.

 

I get the main point! You're saying that most men don't make 75k a year, and I agree! And you're also saying that women who are looking for such men are setting themselves up for failure. Some are, some aren't... but they most certainly aren't the only ones.

 

MY point was that...

 

1. You say women should stay home

2. In order for a woman to stay home to raise a family, the man should make about 75k

3. If you think that women should stay home, then you should also think that they should want a man who makes 75k... and therefore should not be complaining.

 

OR:

 

If you think women shouldn't expect men to make so much money, then you shouldn't have anything to say about women who are not housewives.

 

Beyond all of that, you've said these women have little to nothing to offer... and the fact of the matter is, as I pointed out in my last post... you don't even know that for sure.

 

This is just yet another bitter, nonsensical rant from you.

[Kamille]

I guess the question is, what about relationships, like those of many of my friends, where they both agree to support each economically? I even have friends who have no qualms being the biggest income earners as they support their husband's careers in less lucrative fields. One is a banker while her husband sets up his mushroom farm. Another a diplomat supporting her artist husband. They're both in love and incredibly happy with this arrangement. would you have a problem with that?

[EnigmaVariation]

This has certainly been an entertaining read, woods321. I read the link to the article that you provided, woods321, and until I see something from cnn.com or msn.com in the website address, I'm going to have to question the validity and accuracy of an article from a lesser known, if known at all, website.

 

I'd also like to know who these "run of the mill women" you solicited input from are. They sound very young and idealistic to be placing demands/requirements on salary for their "man". I'm a woman who has been around for some time now and a salary of $75k+ is not something I place on my wish list nor is it something my friends have ever listed as something they seek in a man.

 

Your posts reflect a sexist and generally derogatory tone toward women and make it impossible to take your posts seriously. Perhaps you were treated badly in the past by women and have branded all women like those you have personally encountered. That is unfortunate and is a highly inaccurate portrayal of women in the world on your part.

 

The jist of the initial post of this thread and your subsequent posts lead me to believe that you feel that the women you have been trying to date have too high of expectations, so perhaps instead of coming on here and bashing all women on the planet, you should instead log off and try dating a different type of woman.

[shadowplay]

Age is the NUMBER 1 factor men look at when choosing a mate. Yes another fact. I know, we should all just base our posts on emotions, and how we "deserve" whatever we choose.

 

That is such BS. People like you disgust me.

[EnigmaVariation]

LOL

 

So you think men want to settle down with older women? Please...

Maybe date and have sex. But marry? NO.

 

Sorry some of you women hate facts. Age is the most important factor now, and always has been.

 

There is a reason only 7% of men are married to women 4 years older or more..

 

Show me a definitive, reputable, academic-based link with this "fact" please.

[EnigmaVariation]

Do I really have to? It is COMMON sense. And I already showed you a Stanford study, but that was not real enough for you.

 

But you can research the census, and see what age people marry at, and what age their partners are..

 

OFCOURSE men are attracted to beauty and fertility. How can you even question that?

 

I do not see any common sense in your posts, woods321. You didn't show me a Stanford Study, you showed me an anonymous article on an unknown website that mentioned a Stanford Study yet failed to provide any of the actual data (facts and figures) or details of the study. The demographic of the study could have been relatively small which would certainly skew the actual validity and/or reliability of the study.

 

I'm not the one throwing around obscure facts and figures, woods321. I'm a Ph.D. student and I love statistics. So if you are going to pretend to list facts for us ladies, then you better pony up and start posting some real links to back yourself up because right now we both know you're just pulling numbers out of thin air to try and rile up the ladies on here with your jaded views.

 

I question anything and everything you say right now, woods321, based on what you continue to post here. So I would like to ask again that you start providing links to the actual data you are supposedly quoting. Thanks.

[Kamille]

where's the link to the Stanford study?

 

in my mind the answer to your questions woods is: So what? Why does this perception of yours bother you so much that you go around telling other people -mostly women- how their beliefs are false? I'm not married, I'm not seeing anyone (well seriously anyways), there a few men out there who I know find me interesting and I don't give a **** about my age. I live my own life, I love my own life and if I happen to find someone that fits in it then good for me.

 

If not, bah humbug. I will have led a happy life anyways.

[KinAZ]

NO KINAZ..

 

I said women should either...

 

Be an old fashioned stay at home, non working mom. This also means cooking, cleaning, being thrifty etc. You don't need 75k to have a couple kids and a wife, lol. Millions of Americans raise families with the mother at home with much much less than that.

 

OR

 

Be a working equal. Everything 50-50.

 

Whats annoying is when you hear women demanding men make 75-150k. It shows they do not have any understanding of the real world and what people actually earn.

 

Mmm... I remember all of those posts, and you were blaming the downfall of the dating world on women in the workforce. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you said very plainly that it's POINTLESS for a man to marry when he has to work and can't come home to a clean house and a good meal. You also spouted on about how having her own income makes a woman too independent and therefore more difficult to deal with.

 

Yeah, millions of American families do raise a family on less than 75k... and millions are struggling too! Millions of children are under educated! Millions of American adults are too! Hundreds of children killed every year... Hundreds of kids who turn to the streets, not only because of a missing parent or uninvolved parents, but out of necessity, because it's more expensive than you seem to realize to take care of a family. To make sure your children have shoes that fit. Struggling...

 

Ask me how many of the people I know who had struggling parents who, as a result, have UGLY toes... because their parents could only buy shoes when they could afford them, and not always when the kids needed them. You can state percentages of who does what, but you've never lived it. Ask what some of them did in high school to make sure they had nice new shoes that fit... because their parents couldn't really afford it.

 

For YOUR IDEAL to be true... for YOUR ideal to be a reality, you're simply gonna have to settle for a woman who wants a man who makes 75k and be that man.

 

Over here? 60k a year, and the shoes always fit, but the debt is sky high. And that's something you're not accounting for... how those struggling people are REALLY getting by. LOL, what, you think it's just all cash??? Nah, it's credit cards, lines of credit, second mortgages, and everything else!!! Can't pay the bills? Refinance. (Although that's not an option these days, and people are losing their HOMES.)

 

I understand that your experiences are limited, so you can't really see all of this for what it really is at it's core, but the bottom line is... you're just not being realistic.

[Kamille]

the answer to your troubles is easy: stop dating princesses.

 

Not all women think they're princesses.

 

Case closed.

 

Next!