Women, dating, failure, unrealistic expectations.

[Touche]

Oh, you're just talking about men? I was talking about people in general.

 

Yes, I was talking about a potential mate only. As far as friends go, of course I'm not as picky.

[Touche]

So Touche, I am guessing a man with a higher degree than you should ALSO feel the same?

 

"Well, I wouldn't consider dating Touche because I have this degree, from this college, and it shows I am more educated. I don't date people less educated than myself, as I need someone to actually talk to"

 

So only people with the exact same degrees, from the same level of colleges should date?

 

Actually my ex-husband had an advanced degree and I only had a high school diploma.

 

So I see your point in a way.

 

But so what? I have my preferences and he (and others ) have a right to theirs.

[vonerik012]

So, was he able to converse with you?

 

Or once again, it is simply an excuse as you want someone who you think will make lots of money?

[Touche]

So, was he able to converse with you?

 

Or once again, it is simply an excuse as you want someone who you think will make lots of money?

 

We absolutely were able to converse.

 

Nope it wasn't an excuse for anything.

 

I've dated men who had nothing. I had no problem with that.

 

I just prefer an educated man. And as I've said most educated men do do well financially. That's just the icing on the cake.

 

When I was in my 20's I dated a guy who owned a few muffler shops in our town. He did very well for himself. But he was uneducated. And I became bored very quickly.

 

He couldn't throw enough money at me to make me stay.

 

I've always needed and wanted the "whole package."

 

And guess what? I got it.

[Trialbyfire]

Okay, I'll admit that I haven't read any of the thread beyond the opening post therefore can only respond as such.

 

Gender aside, if someone wants a specific type of individual as a mate, as long as they're willing to filter out the balance and not be embittered by not finding the exact person, there's really nothing wrong with being particular.

 

A lot of men want arm trophy. How many pieces of arm trophy are out there? If you're willing to bypass the rest, that's your personal choice.

 

No one owes anyone mercy dates.

[Kamille]

Do you just invent stuff to make a comment ?

 

BTW "rhetoric" is spelled with an "h"

 

At least your comment about ip addresses has merit.

 

 

C'est tout ce que tu trouves à dire? Franchement, tu pourrais faire des commentaires sur le contenu et non pas la forme.

 

Tant pis pour toi.

[FleshNBones]

I think the main push by the original poster was that women are wasting the best years of their lives waiting for a guy to meet some unrealistic expectations. One of those expectations is income. Other expectations include height, skin color, looks, etc.

 

I haven't seen any women here say anything about job experience. Very few professionals starts off making top dollar. They usually start earning good money later in their careers which is something the women here failed to consider. The 38 year-old guy is earning more than the 28 year-old, but that doesn't mean he works harder. The 28 year-old may be willing to marry the 26 year-old woman, but that doesn't mean the 38 year-old will want to marry a 36 year-old woman especially if he wants a family of his own. The 10 years in-between is just being wasted.

 

Some of the women here suggest marrying a fat chick. Women with mental problems can't be fixed in almost every case. They usualy lash out like a banishment/lynch mob. If you are married to the women, she will divorce you, and turn the kids against you. She will be manipulating the time you have with your kids, and so on.

 

I think most guys want to avoid this kind of catastrophe where everybody loses. Liberating??? The only thing being liberated is my bank account, and my childrens' college fund.

 

Bored women... Try spending a few years on the edge in skid row, and then tell me how much you hate the boring life. Anybody that complains about drinking bottled water should be forced to drink out a garden hose. Get a job you don't like so you can take your mind off your boredom. Here is a radical idea, channel your boredom into something productive. Count your blessings.

[vonerik012]

Exactly..

 

It has gotten to the point where women's lists have became longer, and yet men cannot have a list at all. Even caring about age, has now made you a pig. Women even seem to be in strict denial that this is even a factor.

[imbewildered]

C'est tout ce que tu trouves à dire? Franchement, tu pourrais faire des commentaires sur le contenu et non pas la forme.

 

Tant pis pour toi.

 

Ok..if you say so.

[Angel1111]

I have tried the low-income guys and/or blue collar workers and, honestly, it didn't work for me - not because of the money, but because of the intellectual aspect that usually goes with these relationships. I was actually quite happy with the combined incomes of myself and my husband(s) because material things aren't that important to me. A quaint little house in a nice neighborhood is just fine with me. What I care the most about is if the people in the house are loving and happy.

 

My boyfriends and husbands were, however, very intimidated by me and I never could figure it out. Looking back, I get it now. I was attractive, high-energy, driven, intellectual, risky, independent, carefree, outgoing, and funny. These qualities were highly attractive to them but also made them feel extremely insecure and out-classed. It was really more their insecuties about me that created the problems than my issues with them. When men are insecure, they can become very possessive and controlling. This is a bad combination for someone with my personality. I don't try to control anyone because I cannot stand anyone to control me. When my son's dad and I were divorcing, he said, "I'll never marry a beautiful woman again." This was his assessment of the whole thing and it spoke volumes about his level of insecurity.

 

I have since met men that fit my personality and intellectual level, but I agree that they are few and far between. But, to me, I have no other option but to wait until this type of man comes along because all other scenarios have backfired.

 

On the other hand, I work with a woman who absolutely loves blue collar workers. And I can see what she sees in them because they are usually so carefree and open. And I think it needs to be said that these guys often make a very good living and make very good husbands.

[vonerik012]

I think the problem is stereotyping based on a career.

 

To go out on a limb, I feel the MOST intelligent men are not in the corporate world. They think outside of the box, and have a problem with the structure, ass kissing, and formalities they find to be too constrictive.

 

I don't see how having a job in which you do the same thing everyday in an office somehow makes you more intelligent or interesting.

[Angel1111]

After having said all that above, I would like to add a really funny story that epitomizes exactly what I think the OP is talking about.

 

I'm a manager at the company I work for. A few yrs ago, we were going through a stressful time because of a huge growth in business, so I called an agency to send someone over on a temp basis, sight unseen. The woman they sent wasn't someone I would've hired but she worked for our needs at the time. This girl was truly trashy. She always looked like crap, dressed like crap, had oily hair, out-dated hair style, never wore make-up, never attempted to look good, and was about 30 lbs overweight. Her kids and life were a mess and she constantly had some kind of drama going on at all times.

 

Someone at the office told me that this woman constantly perused the millionaires.com dating website. Who even knew such a site existed??? Well, she did. But I was completely shocked that she would think for one second that she could be with a man like this - a man who has his pick of women and usually wants someone with looks and depth - when she made zero attempts at looking appealing or even be somewhat interesting to talk to, or at the minimum, lose the drama.

 

One day I was sitting at her desk talking to her and she was asking me if there were any good looking men in the office bldg (please note her emphasis on good looking). I told her there were a few but most of the men in our office were all married. She then pointed out that the president of our company - whom she had never met - was a handsome man (she saw a picture of him on the website). I know this man very well and he's a good friend. We're actually very attracted to one another but he's married so.....sigh....oh well. Anyway, because I know him so well, I also know how picky he is about people in general and the thought of this woman setting her sights on him was extremely funny to me. All I managed to say to her was, "Well, he's married with 2 kids." She looked deflated and said, "Oh," and it occurred to me that she was really serious. I had to make a quick exit and walked away, trying really hard not to laugh in front of her.

 

The next time I spoke to the president of the company, I let him know about his new admirer. His comment was, "God. Tell her to take a number." This girl had no idea about what she wanted vs. what was realisitic. But, honestly, that's the first time I've ever encountered a woman who had such high expectations and was so far off the mark. She needed to come down a few thousand notches. And if she didn't want to come down, then she needed to rise up. She simply didn't get it.

[Angel1111]

I think the problem is stereotyping based on a career.

 

To go out on a limb, I feel the MOST intelligent men are not in the corporate world. They think outside of the box, and have a problem with the structure, ass kissing, and formalities they find to be too constrictive.

 

I don't see how having a job in which you do the same thing everyday in an office somehow makes you more intelligent or interesting.

 

The mix of personality you're referring to are no doubt very smart. But, from my observations, they often lack the ability to be disciplined and that's where execs or highly successful business owners have the edge.

 

The ones that are higher up in companies are usually scary-smart people. I deal with them a lot in my company and they have a very different perspective and way of thinking. I find it complimentary that they like me and often prefer to deal with me over other people in the office. But I know myelf well enough to know that I am not at their level of intellect. Yes, some of them are idiots but, for the most part, it actually takes a lot of brains to run a company and make snap decisions that don't backfire later. The execs at Enron are not a good example of this, although the 'smartest guys in the room' actually were highly intelligent.

 

Because my teenage son is highly intellectual, disciplined and driven, I can see him being a corp exec someday, or running his own company. Anything else will bore him to death. These people need to feel challenged on a regular basis and their focus is usually several steps ahead of the rest of us.

[Angel1111]

Exactly..

 

It has gotten to the point where women's lists have became longer, and yet men cannot have a list at all. Even caring about age, has now made you a pig. Women even seem to be in strict denial that this is even a factor.

 

You're not really serious, are you??? I don't know a single woman - not even one - who doesn't know that age is a huge factor with men. Why do you think plastic surgeons and anti-aging products are on the rise? Because women want the magic pill. They want to capture their youth forever. Tell us how we can do that and we would be more than happy to accomodate you.

 

And if you think men don't have a very long list, think again. It doesn't mean you're pigs. But I've noticed that the men who complain the most about the long list that women have are the ones that don't measure up. One of my exes insisted that I left him becaue of money because I later dated someone who had it. When men make this kind of assumption without really understanding, they draw some really wrong conclusions. He can think it was all about money if he wants, but HE could've made a ton of it and I still would've left him. It wasn't about the money.

 

Men and women both need to understand that each sex has pressures on them in one way or another. All things considered, I think it would be much easier to make a bunch of money than it would be to try to stay young looking for 80 yrs. But becoming bitter or critical about the pressures we all personally feel doesn't really resolve anything. They are what they are.

[vonerik012]

Well, maybe you should read some of the other threads on here in which women are arguing tooth and nail that age DOES NOT matter.

 

And about being intellectual...

 

It really depends on your frame of reference. Germany is the only place that I have been in which people read out loud to each other while passing a book around, INSTEAD of watching television. They view TV watching as a waste of time. A girl who never attended college there, is far more intellectual than an MBA grad here. Not to mention speaking 2 or 3 languages fluently is common.

 

Having dated plenty of American career women with advanced degrees, I can conclude that the vast majority have LITTLE interest in intellectual pursuits. Unless you call watching the Bachelor, talking about office drama, reading Cosmo, and eating out at restaurants "Intellectual" pursuits.

 

These are the same women that then claim they need a man that is "Intellectual". Actually a 7th grader can converse with them about the Bachelor, Hair color, and listen to office drama stories perfectly well.

[Woggle]

Well, maybe you should read some of the other threads on here in which women are arguing tooth and nail that age DOES NOT matter.

 

And about being intellectual...

 

It really depends on your frame of reference. Germany is the only place that I have been in which people read out loud to each other while passing a book around, INSTEAD of watching television. They view TV watching as a waste of time. A girl who never attended college there, is far more intellectual than an MBA grad here. Not to mention speaking 2 or 3 languages fluently is common.

 

Having dated plenty of American career women with advanced degrees, I can conclude that the vast majority have LITTLE interest in intellectual pursuits. Unless you call watching the Bachelor, talking about office drama, reading Cosmo, and eating out at restaurants "Intellectual" pursuits.

 

These are the same women that then claim they need a man that is "Intellectual". Actually a 7th grader can converse with them about the Bachelor, Hair color, and listen to office drama stories perfectly well.

 

This is very true. I work with many career women who think that they are better than most men yet they all sit around reading people and talking about who has the most pretty dress or who is ugly and needs a makeover. Try and talk about politics with them and it looks like their heads will explode. Not saying all successful women are like this but the snobs who look down on working class men usually are.

[vonerik012]

Exactly Woggle..

 

I can typically have better conversations with Mexican immigrants, than MOST(not all) career women.

 

Mention anything in the world that is happening, and that look at you with amazement, as they have never heard of it before. I was dating an MBA grad, and I mentioned the EURO form of currency, and she said "Whats that?"

I dated another college grad that did not know the USA was involved in WW2.

 

Those are 2 small examples, but the general knowledge most have is VERY lacking. If you don't want to spend hours hearing about office gossip,or aren't interested in the Bachelor, you quickly will run out of things to talk about.

[Pomo]

Lovely, this is what you do in every thread..

 

This is called "The Charge of Irascibility" it is a feminine(and feminist ) shaming tactic aimed at men who are making too much sense in the debate. The target (the man) is accused of having anger ,resentment, undeserved or unresolved negative feelings toward women because of some past experience.

The objective of this tactic is to undermine the debate and divert the energy into a mild person attack on the target in the hope that it will all degenerate into mudlinging at which time AG can claim to be victimised and scoop in the sympathy vote from the other girls.

 

 

ummm ... this is called "The Charge of Irascibility" by who exactly? what is the source for this? and, given that irascibility means being generally prone to anger, i dont see how how you get to it being a feminine shaming tactic and all that other nonsense. please explain. or is this just made up?

 

i also dont think you're "making too much sense" , in fact the contrary. your OP assumes a whole list of criteria that women supposedly want - you dont say what the source for that it is - never mind, you just made it up. but then, you go further askew when you transform 'want' into 'deserve' and go hysterical on that.

 

this is called the 'charge of the straw man' it is a logic /logical technique used to point out that someone is distorting a position to make it easier to attack.

 

you might have had something if you had say, identified (by data) that large numbers of women of a certain age were involuntarily single, then factored out the effect of other causes, then concluded that it was their high expectations were causing them to mistakenly weed out otherwise suitable matches, and were able to demonstrate that etc... then you might have something worth reading.

 

i want lots of thing too - a house with a big pool and a tennis court. so what? everybody wants good things. whats the big deal? so what.

 

you also say that 'women are useless to men'. no, i think what drives all this is that youve come to realize that you are useless to women - because they dont need you to provide for them anymore, and maybe thats all you have to offer. but dont worry there's always financially dependent women from poorer countries for you - who 'know how to treat a man'.

 

lastly, - and im not going to catalogue all your errors - in later posts talking about men prefering younger women - you confuse and fail to differentiate, between younger women 'relative' to the men in question - eg 50yo chasing/marrying 40 yo women and younger in the objective sense , as in all men wanting 20 somethings' - your inability to keep those separate makes your argument a mess.

[Woggle]

Immigrants are much smarter than people give them credit for. Some of the best conversations I have had were with cab drivers most of who are immigrants these days. I am starting to think that the less materialistic a woman is the smarter she is. Maybe diaamonds and designer clothes do something to their brain. My wife hates diamonds and she is the smartest woman I know so maybe their is a point to this.

[Woggle]

As far as materialism goes, there are just as many materialistic men as women.

 

This is true and these men are usually very stupid.

[vonerik012]

Well, men are typically materialistic to attract a female. Also, they spend their own money. They don't spend their life looking for a "high earner". BIG difference.

 

You can be handsome, loyal, and intelligent, but if you pull up in a 1984 Cavalier there is a HUGE segment of the female population that WILL NOT date you.

 

Intelligent women typically are not materialistic. They seek traits in a mate, and not THINGS he has. They also realize that if someone has a high earning potential that can also quickly change, and you are stuck with someone you don't even like. If women are so good at choosing a mate, i wonder why the divorce rate is over 50%, and 70% of the time the divorces are initaited by the women?

[FleshNBones]

Immigrants are much smarter than people give them credit for. Some of the best conversations I have had were with cab drivers most of who are immigrants these days. I am starting to think that the less materialistic a woman is the smarter she is. Maybe diaamonds and designer clothes do something to their brain. My wife hates diamonds and she is the smartest woman I know so maybe their is a point to this.

Diamonds are overvalued. The reality is they are plentiful.

The price is kept artificially high by the company called De Beers.

[FleshNBones]

It has gotten to the point where women's lists have became longer, and yet men cannot have a list at all. Even caring about age, has now made you a pig. Women even seem to be in strict denial that this is even a factor.

Covering up for a poor decision is a human tendency.

[vonerik012]

Thats funny. I noticed the same thing about the cab drivers...

 

If I can have a deeper conversation with foreign cabbies than most American gals, I wonder why most women feel they need a guy to have a college degree to hold a conversation with them? Usually all thats needed is an 8th grade education.

 

With todays society, I am thinking women just feel impressive telling their friends "My husband is the assistant Director of "blank" at Company X", even if that position just sounds much greater than it really is.

[vonerik012]

Pink Rose, think about this. I understand you would date a teacher, but look at it from a male perspective.

 

Let's pretend you are a male teacher. You have an apartment, and drive a used Ford Taurus. You have a college degree, and are very educated.

 

You notice that many women are instantly turned off because you are "just a teacher". They don't want to date you because of your car. How would you start to view women? You hear them say they don't care about money, want an educated man, a caring man, etc, but in REALITY you experience something much different.