Women, dating, failure, unrealistic expectations.

[Stockalone]

The overwhelming evidence supports the fact that both older and younger men are chasing younger women. Men don't marry older women.. it is extremely rare.

 

I do agree that age is a factor, especially for men who are looking for a woman to start a family with. Most men probably won't consider a woman in her forties to be the best choice when they think about starting a family.

 

However, I don't see a problem with women having certain requirements that a potential mate must meet. I guess I am biased given that I too have requirements that a lot of people consider to be unrealistic. But it's my life, so I get to make my own rules about who I will date or not. Why shouldn't women do the same?

[OpenBook]

So what is the point of all this? To help you women.

 

You are looking for things you most likely will never have. Open your options and mind, or stay single.

 

Well okay woodsy!! I appreciate your attempt to "help us women" and rescue us from our impending doom of endless catfood and lonely spinsterhood -- but I really don't need to be rescued. I'm happy where I am now (and apparently so are the men in my life:love:), and I'd kinda like to rely on my own personal counsel and "statistics" - it just works out better that way.

 

And men are like buses - another one comes along every 5 minutes.:D:D

[citizen67]

I am pretty much everything on that list except I am short - but I am a woman and short is okay for women. Really short men - I feel your pain that has to suck. To the men who arent really short - pleeease - you have it so much better. Woman have to be unnaturally thin, do all sorts of shaving and pruning and what not, and still we all are made to feel not good enough. But I should settle for an unattractive caveman who doesnt even really like me? That's depressing

[wriotgrrl]

or other superficial requirements. My requirements are not a creep, not abusive and likes/loves me for me and who I am now. I have always been like this. The women I am friends with are like this. Ironically I know a lot of men who are attracted to bitchy superficial demanding women not cool well adjusted women like me. And no I am not ugly or fat. And I am dating somebody right now lol. But really it seems if you are a woman you can't win. Guys will complain if you are a bitchy high maintenance gold digger and guys will complain if you are a kind, loving accepting up for anything girl as well. So oh well lol

[Stockalone]

Flesh n Bones is the only one on the entire thread that understands the point I am making.

 

Actually, I think we all get the point.

 

However, just because people have unreasonable (from your point of view, or even from a majority's point of view) standards, that doesn't mean it is not equally unrealistic to expect people to have no standards at all or expect them to be happy with less than what they want.

 

 

Its like all men saying "Well i deserve a woman to be between 5 foot 6 and five foot 8, 120-130, dd breasts, perfect legs, perfect skin, intelligent, submissive, and hard working. I DESERVE IT.

 

When you tell people that they have no right to be picky and decide for themselves what is right for them, you are telling them that they have to date, marry, or have sex with whomever comes along because there is no alternative for them.

 

Now, I am sure that isn't what you mean, but don't you see how it could easily be seen like you do just that?

 

It's pretty simple. If you are too picky or expect way more than you can offer, then there is a chance you end up alone. Some people get exactly what they want, others "settle" for much of what they want and a few won't compromise at all and rather be alone. I don't have a problem with that.

 

However, I agree that people should think about that before they complain that they never get what they want. But the fact is, we don't get to decide what someone else has to consider reasonable. If that means some people end up alone, then that is their choice and they should not complain about it.

[lovestruck818]

I should correct myself. I didn't see that over 100K was listed as a requirement. I don't know the size of their paychecks, but I do know they've all been successful enough to not worry about paying the rent.

 

If someone is making $100k a year though...they should not be paying "rent"...they should be paying a "mortgage". For chrissakes, I'm 26 and I have an f'n mortgage

[Crestfallen_KH]

If someone is making $100k a year though...they should not be paying "rent"...they should be paying a "mortgage". For chrissakes, I'm 26 and I have an f'n mortgage

 

Why so judgmental? The market sucks right now and in some markets, it's a much better deal to rent. Having a mortgage in certain metropolitan areas like SF or NYC is difficult. I'd rather pay rent on a 2br that own a 1br 800 square foot home in a sketchy neighborhood. Maybe they have alimony or child support payments. Maybe they are saving up to afford the 20% down payment. It's not all black and white.

 

Owning a home isn't everyone's American dream. I guess if you view those folks negatively, though, that's entirely up to you.

[lovestruck818]

Why so judgmental? The market sucks right now and in some markets, it's a much better deal to rent. Having a mortgage in certain metropolitan areas like SF or NYC is difficult. I'd rather pay rent on a 2br that own a 1br 800 square foot home in a sketchy neighborhood. Maybe they have alimony or child support payments. Maybe they are saving up to afford the 20% down payment. It's not all black and white.

 

Owning a home isn't everyone's American dream. I guess if you view those folks negatively, though, that's entirely up to you.

 

But by renting you are just throwing away money...and that's a 100% guarantee. At least with buying you have at least a 50% chance of losing money. The odds are always better buying.

[lovestruck818]

Quite the contrary. I provided the stats. What evidence was presented? lol

 

The numbers don't add up. As an example for the ones who take more time to catch on, lets say 50 million American women are seeking those traits. Sure, maybe they all "Deserve" it. I mean who doesnt'? And only 1 million American men have that. Well, 49 million are out of luck See?

 

And ladies, no need to be so self absorbed. The thread is about the general population, not your personal lives.

 

But, since you made it personal, and you have no problem getting these men to ask for your hand in marriage, I suggest you take them up on it soon.

 

Age is the NUMBER 1 factor men look at when choosing a mate. Yes another fact. I know, we should all just base our posts on emotions, and how we "deserve" whatever we choose.

 

But that's just the problem...so many women expect the men to do the asking when it comes to marriage. It's about time more women started proposing!

[Crestfallen_KH]

Well, not everyone is always ready for that investment.

 

I'd rather save up the down payment, avoid the PMI, and buy when the market is better. That may be "throwing money away" to someone else, but I'd rather live in a better place now than "throw money away" paying interest on a piggyback loan and a house that is projected to lose additional value over the next 1-2 years.

 

For me, the great thing about a high income is the freedom to make whatever I choices I want with the money I earn, regardless of what others think.

[lovestruck818]

Why so judgmental? The market sucks right now and in some markets, it's a much better deal to rent. Having a mortgage in certain metropolitan areas like SF or NYC is difficult. I'd rather pay rent on a 2br that own a 1br 800 square foot home in a sketchy neighborhood. Maybe they have alimony or child support payments. Maybe they are saving up to afford the 20% down payment. It's not all black and white.

 

Owning a home isn't everyone's American dream. I guess if you view those folks negatively, though, that's entirely up to you.

 

"Renting" & "saving" are like oxymorons. The smart thing to do is to live with your parents as long as you possibly can. I'm 26 and I own a very nice house in an affluent area outside of New York City. The way I was able to do this was not b/c I rented. It's b/c while all my friends were out renting and still are, I stayed home and lived with my parents, which gave me an opportunity to save money. In 3 years time I had way more than I needed for a downpayment on a house. Most 26 years old are not owning houses in New York City & vicinity. I'm clearly not an idiot...

[Sks]

None of the things you listed were that strenuous. My problem with allot of females is they expect to be treated like a princess verses a potential mate.

[lovestruck818]

None of the things you listed were that strenuous. My problem with allot of females is they expect to be treated like a princess verses a potential mate.

 

I agree. I don't want to be treated like a princess ever...b/c I'm not one...and I'm not perfect. Just treat me like a normal girl...

[Crestfallen_KH]

"Renting" & "saving" are like oxymorons. The smart thing to do is to live with your parents as long as you possibly can. I'm 26 and I own a very nice house in an affluent area outside of New York City. The way I was able to do this was not b/c I rented. It's b/c while all my friends were out renting and still are, I stayed home and lived with my parents, which gave me an opportunity to save money. In 3 years time I had way more than I needed for a downpayment on a house. Most 26 years old are not owning houses in New York City & vicinity. I'm clearly not an idiot...

 

I'm not saying you are an idiot.

 

I couldn't live with my parents - they live in a small, rural town in the Midwest with no university or job opportunities. Not only that, I was proud to live on my own and pay my own bills since the age of 18. I had to leave and move to a town where I didn't know anyone - I love that sense of independence and I was proud to learn I could make it on my own.

 

I've just made different choices and you and I had different circumstances. That doesn't mean my choices are "wrong" or "right" - just different.

[lovestruck818]

I'm not saying you are an idiot.

 

I couldn't live with my parents - they live in a small, rural town in the Midwest with no university or job opportunities. Not only that, I was proud to live on my own and pay my own bills since the age of 18. I had to leave and move to a town where I didn't know anyone - I love that sense of independence and I was proud to learn I could make it on my own.

 

I've just made different choices and you and I had different circumstances. That doesn't mean my choices are "wrong" or "right" - just different.

 

I agree...but you say you have a high income, right?, which I am sure you do...why would you want to throw your hard-earned money away is what I am saying...when you can invest it in real estate and possibly make more money on it when you sell? Owning gives you the power to sell which is why it's great...provided, you sell it for more than you bought it for. With renting, you don't even have that opportunity.

[Crestfallen_KH]

I agree...but you say you have a high income, right?, which I am sure you do...why would you want to throw your hard-earned money away is what I am saying...when you can invest it in real estate and possibly make more money on it when you sell? Owning gives you the power to sell which is why it's great...provided, you sell it for more than you bought it for. With renting, you don't even have that opportunity.

 

That's exactly my plan - in the next 1-2 years.

 

I just divorced my ex-husband in December of last year; consequently, my income was virtually halved and I've had to make some adjustments. I've also had additional expenses as a result of the divorce. Sometimes life happens and your plans get put on hold.

[JohnnyBlaze]

Its like all men saying "Well i deserve a woman to be between 5 foot 6 and five foot 8, 120-130, dd breasts, perfect legs, perfect skin, intelligent, submissive, and hard working. I DESERVE IT.

See? Now you're talking! I've always stuck by my "deserving":

"I deserve a bisexual nymphomaniac gymnast model with a twin sister, a rich family, and in ownership of a bike shop and a Lambo dealership."

Do I expect her to come along? Not in this lifetime. But whether you aim for the stars or aim for ten feet up, if you can only jump four feet, you're gonna crash either way. At least if you aim high and you get that one lucky bounce, you're set!

 

Saying that someone "deserves" a quality is kind of a misnomer. There's always the two lists: the ones they require and the ones they would like. Someone may insist that a guy be a particular ethnicity (e.g. she'll ONLY date black guys). That's a requirement. She'd like him to be over 6', but if he's 5'10 and looks good, she'll let it go. That's a like. But rather than make two lists, they just bunch it all into one. Especially when it comes to online profiles, they know guys won't read much anyway. A girl could be looking for a black man who is exactly 5'10, weighs 175lbs, has an afro and runs in the 100m sprint at the Olympics. Some white guy who is 5'8, 250lbs and balding would read that and say "hey, I ran once in my life. I'll answer!". It just helps narrow things down a little, that's all.

 

Life's taught me two key lessons over the years (at least, two relevant to this topic): nobody "deserves" anything, and what you want isn't always what you think you want. So when it comes to those profiles, words like "entitled to" or "deserve" only mean "want", as far as I'm concerned.

 

Lol, I love that you felt the need to put 'not creepy' on the list!

 

Under that rationale, can we also add 'not an axe murderer', etc? :D

 

I wouldn't write that one off too quickly. Do you know how many chicks get wet over serial killers? The first day Scott Peterson was in prison, the warden got 3 dozen calls from girls wanting his mailing address. Charles Sobhra, a confessed serial killer, got engaged to a chick 40 years his junior. James Morgan got married while on Death Row in Texas. And that doesn't even touch on the chicks clamoring over the big names like Charles Manson or Richard Ramirez. So no, I don't think we can add "not an axe murderer".

[mental_traveller]

"Renting" & "saving" are like oxymorons. The smart thing to do is to live with your parents as long as you possibly can. I'm 26 and I own a very nice house in an affluent area outside of New York City. The way I was able to do this was not b/c I rented. It's b/c while all my friends were out renting and still are, I stayed home and lived with my parents, which gave me an opportunity to save money. In 3 years time I had way more than I needed for a downpayment on a house. Most 26 years old are not owning houses in New York City & vicinity. I'm clearly not an idiot...

 

If rental yields are low enough, it makes a lot more financial sense than owning. If it's a down real estate market, it makes much more sense to rent. If you move frequently, it makes much more sense to rent. If real estate is drastically overvalued thanks to a gigantic speculative orgy, it makes financial sense to rent. If you can make a good return on your money via investments, it can make more sense to rent.

 

Examples: a house rents for $1k a month, the payment on an interest-only mortgage would be $2k a month plus property taxes. Explain how owning is a better deal? It's only better if the price appreciation is more than $1k+ownership costs per month - and that is not the case in down or flat markets.

 

A house falls 25% in value in a year, completely wiping out a buyer who put down a conservative 20% deposit. Explain how he did better than renting? Anyone who moved to Vegas or Miami in the last 2-3 years would be way ahead if they rented instead of buying.

 

A guy moves 5 times in 5 years. Explain how paying 5-10% moving costs each year having to sell 5 times in a row would be better than renting?

 

Someone earning 6 figures may prefer to use the capital for a business venture or investments, rather than tying it up for years in bricks & mortar.

 

Renting makes sense in many scenarios. No one with real knowledge of real estate or finance thinks buying real estate is always the best move regardless of circumstances. It depends on the individual and their situation, and the state of the overall market in your area.

[KinAZ]

LOL, Ironically... and correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't you the one who said that the man should earn the living while the woman stays at home?? WELL, in this town 60k a year is BARELY enough to support a family of 4 in a small 3 bedroom fixer-upper of a house (bottom of the barrel). And that's food, mortgage, one mid-sized car, and credit card debt. SO... If I marry someone who is supposed to support me... lol ... well, he does need to make at least 75k.... just to stay out of debt, living frugally!

 

 

Sorry, but I'm not looking to raise children in a less than safe area with a sucky school system.

 

As far as the plumber who makes 100k... there are plenty who wouldn't necessarily mind that either! haha

 

Anywho, you seem to have so many things backwards hun. You want to support a woman and family in what? A two bedroom apartment in a slum? Kids are anything but cheap! Public school fees are more than 100 per school year just for public school, even if they don't eat lunch on campus. That doesn't include things like summer camps, sports, cub scouts, swimming lessons, or any of other things that children are involved in. Kids go through clothes much faster than we do, and especially if you have boys... even as young as my children are, it won't be long before they eat you out of house and home on 60k per year.

 

That's car note for a mid-sized car, two cells, a land line, dsl, but no cable or satellite TV.

 

 

You're asking how realistic women are... but how realistic are you?

[Lovely Disaster]

Nah, plenty of quality single men out there. Is the date I had tonight a delusion? No. It really happened, lol.

 

 

Books like the rules. Perhaps?

 

The impression I got was that any woman can get these men. They seem to think confidence, and attitude somehow work. Delusions...

 

Maybe the flood of information from the media somehow creates the illusion that far more men are available than there actually are.

[Lovely Disaster]

As far as the plumber who makes 100k... there are plenty who wouldn't necessarily mind that either! haha

 

This plumber who makes 100k...plumbers don't make that much, don't know where you are getting that figure, lol.

 

How Much Plumbers Make

 

 

Once you're an experienced plumber you can earn a good living.

Here are statistics gathered by the U.S. Department of Labor:

 

Pipelayers, plumbers, pipefitters, and steamfitters are among the highest paid construction occupations. In 2002, median hourly earnings of pipelayers were $13.70. The middle 50 percent earned between $10.96 and $18.43. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $9.20, and the highest 10 percent earned more than $24.31. Also in 2002, median hourly earnings of plumbers, pipefitters, and steamfitters were $19.31. The middle 50 percent earned between $14.68 and $25.87. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $11.23, and the highest 10 percent earned more than $32.27. Median hourly earnings in the industries employing the largest numbers of plumbers, pipefitters, and steamfitters in 2002 are shown below.

• Nonresidential building construction $19.65
  
• Building equipment contractors 19.52
  
• Utility system construction 17.81
  
• Ship and boat building 16.62
  
• Local government 16.21
  

Apprentices usually begin at about 50 percent of the wage rate paid to experienced pipelayers, plumbers, pipefitters, and steamfitters. Wages increase periodically as skills improve. After an initial waiting period, apprentices receive the same benefits as experienced pipelayers, plumbers, pipefitters, and steamfitters.

Many pipelayers, plumbers, pipefitters, and steamfitters are members of the United Association of Journeymen and Apprentices of the Plumbing and Pipefitting Industry of the United States and Canada.

If you are a self employed experienced licensed plumber you can charge between $35-$150 per hour, depending on which part of the United States you live. In larger cities the rates are at the highest end of the spectrum. I believe Boston plumbers charge over $125 per hour. Mid Coast Maine is between $45 & $75 per hour.

 

 

The median expected salary for a typical Plumber I in the United States is $36,440.

[KinAZ]

This plumber who makes 100k...plumbers don't make that much, don't know where you are getting that figure, lol.

 

Er, umm... the original poster maybe? That's why I said... "As far as the plumber who makes 100k".... I was replying to him and what he said about the man needing to be professional.

 

Thanks.

[Woggle]

Most women with impossible standards have very little to offer themselves except maybe career success which is a neutral. I prefer hanging out with blue collar types over rich yuppies because they are more genuine. I don't care what a woman does or how much she makes as long as I can stand being around her. All the money and education in the world means zilch if she is an intolerable witch.

[KinAZ]

Kinaz, also get a clue. Only 10% of all people in the USA make over 75k. That means at most, maybe 5% of men are marriage material? After they go through the other qualifications, maybe 2%? Good luck, lol. Are you hotter than 98% of women? If not, you better lower your standards, or stay single.

 

What things cost is not relevant. How much you WANT someone to earn is not relevant. By simply looking at the numbers of what people DO earn, and not being in fantasy land, you can see how idiotic people who keep complaining about "what they deserve"sound.

 

Yes, it is great to marry someone who makes excellent money. But for over 90% of women it wont happen. It is statistically impossible.

 

 

Try again cap'n smarty pants! I was only speaking with regard to YOUR views on women being in the home, and men being in the work force.

 

If a man expects me to stay home, he needs to make at least 75k per year! And considering the fact that you've gone on and on about how "selfish" women are for working when they don't need to, I suggest you get used to any kept woman (or woman looking to be kept) expecting a man to make at least 75k per year!

 

How do you not see how idiotic it is to expect a woman to stay at home when, by your OWN calculations, most men don't make enough to support a wife and children on his salary alone?!?!?!

 

That's what I was talking about mister.

[OpenBook]

I'm curious - how would you feel if it was the picky woman herself who was making $80k-$100k/year? Just a freak of nature, I suppose?