I'm drowning....husband wants out

[mum2three]

My husband asked for a divorce after 12 yrs of marriage and 3 children. This happened right before thanksgiving. He claims that we have nothing in common and don't think the same way. I had a difficult time after the birth of my 3rd child. I had alot of gyn problems which restricted me from lifting and being on my feet too long. My husband was never supportive of me during this time. Sex was infrequent this past year because of my condition. But I was coming to a better place and am physically stronger now. I thought that we could start focusing on the relationship now that I am better and my youngest is 2 yrs. old. Well, with these thoughts I get the big D-bomb. He claims that there is no third party. I don't know if i believe it but in any case he says that he has been contemplating divorce for 1 yr now. I was very upset and torn when he said this. I felt completely betrayed. Not only was I suffering from my condition alone this past year just but just knowing that he wanted to leave me at my most vulnerable time was heartbreaking.

 

He has refused to go to counseling because he says that he doesn;t have it in his heart to fix it. He said that we would always be too different and that he feels that he is giving up his core values when compromising with me. I guess I can't argue with him when he says that there is no love left. He told me that I was like dead to him. I spent Thanksgiving with my parents and he had the kids and his family. When I went home he told me that he didn't miss me and that he enjoyed having the kids to himself. He said that he didn't have to consult or conflict with me and could just do things freely.

 

Tonite, i lost my temper and blew up at him for the first time since all this happened. I was sad for so many wks. Now i am just pissed. I am mad at his negative attitude towards me. I told him that I was in the house to care for my children. In the meantime, I have treated him like a friend with a past but not crossing the line. But he is just very curt to me and act like he is resentful. He is cold and tries to ignore me. I was trying to be upbeat, polite, keep simple conversation and do the Divorce Busters thing but I just lost it tonite. While I am taking care of the home and chauferring and cooking and nurturing the kids he is out making money and bringing home an attitude. I don't know why he feels justified in doing so. I have not even asked for compensation for my work.

 

He kept rushing me to go to mediation to relieve him of this painful situation. He says that he doesn't want to drag it out any longer. How can he even think about that when we don't even have childcare? I just don't get it?! How can we celebrate the birth of our 3rd child just 2 yrs ago and now he wants out with no chance of reconciliation? Meanwhile, I have been slaving away for the 5 yrs maintaining a home and taking care of 3 kids under age 5. He doesn't even support having sitters or extra help. He had these expectations that I can do all this even when I could barely sit without pain early this year from my condition.

 

Someone with any words of wisdom please help! I have been patiently reading the forums here and Divorce Busters. I had such positive thinking until tonight when I saw all the gifts that he secretly wrapped up for everyone else. I know that I am no longer an important person in his life but it just made me sad and mad to see him move on so quickly and as a matter of fact without any consideration to me as a friend or wife for the last 12 years.

 

I think I made a mistake by telling him off tonite. But I honestly can't see saving a marriage that is one sided. I have never told him that I didn't love him or didn't want to try counseling. In fact, I am going for counseling this wk by myself. He has refused to participate. After tonite, I think he may be mad enough to file for D. He doesn't even want to bother with a trial separation.

 

I am drained. My ears are open. ILMW and Gunny I look to you for some positive energy.

[anna13]

wow , what an ass he is . I just hate that , all that you have been through , the kids, the health problems and he just wants to bail . that just makes me so angry . it takes two to save a marriage, he seems to be totally cut off from even trying to work it out .. just before thanksgiving is pretty recent so , I think you should just give him alot of space and just move on like he is never coming back . Like I have read in different posts , you cant change or controll what the other person is thinking or feeling. so concentrate on yourself and your kids and move forward. that is all any of us can do . If he files for divorse he does. even though it hurts terribly , I know , you have to try to just accept the now. nothing wrong with trying to work it out but you have to prepare yourself for a possible divorse. get everything in order and take care of your finances and such , you will be dealing with so much emotion that it will be difficult to think aboutu things later, if things get better then no problem , but if it doesnt end well , at least you will be prepared. you have every right to be angry , his reasons for the D is so self serving . easy for him to say right. you didnt mess anything up , you are doing your best to save your marriage which is alot more then I can say your H is doing . If your marriage fails it isnt your fault .. you just remember that .. he is the one that doesnt want in anymore. with anger there is strength. stay strong . hang in there. we all know what you are going through one way or the other.

[Gunny376]

Wow! How frequent convieant for him! After three twelve freaking years together, three children, suffering through three pregancies, and child births, being a SAHM (stay at home mom ~ which is the modern day equivalent of working two full fime jobs btw!) Clown Boy here thinks marriage is like taking out a twelve year lease with an option to buy?

 

The clown says like a real winner! Selfish, self- centered, if all about him. "Me! Me! Me!"

 

First off, Anna is right ~ it takes two to make it and only one to break it. Thing is ~ its not that easy. You've got a big say in all of this, and the way that this goes down. It freaking hard starting over, going to Wally World and buying all that crap they make in China all over again, when you're payiing out the nose in child support ~and with three little ones and with your having had a well and long established carrer of being a SAHM, without any recent job experience ~ I would say that you've got a good chance of getting a some spousal support to help to grease the skids to your new life.

 

The way you handle this ~ is get control of your emotions. Your the eptiome of cool, calm and collected. The very Zen. Laughing Boy wants out ~ fine. Marriage is a lot of things ~ but one of the things clearly established by law is that it is contractural business relationsship. Do you know what happens when one partner wants out of the contract ~ he pays! Big time.

 

I'd get me a tough as nails, junkyard mean lawyer and ask for the moon. In the end you may have to settle for a medium to low orbit but that's where you've got to start. You've got to pull yourself together, and get your head and azz wire together, quick, fast, and in a hurry like. Just that simple.

 

There is life after divorce ~ very much so. But, you've got to earn it the old fashion way ~ you've got to work for it and earn and no it won't come easy! It took me a long time ~ but that was back before the internet and LS, and other such sites.

 

To be realistic ~ and I say this with the full knowledge that you're in a dark and hurting place right now ~ but you're really are better off finding this out ~ now after only 12 years rather after a lifetime. For every door that closes, and window of opportunity opens up.

 

And, of course there's someone else~! That's why Johnny Hotrod is so rearing to go! Why should you belive him? He's already proven that he's un-depenable, un-relaiable, is willing to walk out on his children, his family his children, twelve years of marriage, that he's been living a live of deciet and half truths. If that doens't describe a "cheater" I don't know what does.

 

You deserve better than this. There's better to be had! You can find and do better, and if by some astronomical reason you can't? You're better off without him.

 

Why in the name of God and all that is Holy would you want to be with this guy. There's no shortage of men, and there's no shortage of women. For every Jack there's a Jill, and for every Jill there's a Jack. I've got women after me, and I'm not even looking ~they just poo up out of no where sometimes.

 

I've got a good friend of mine that is about as big around as she is tall, and she's on husband No. 3. He's not big as anything, and loves her to death. In the state of Alabama is against state law to marry more than six times ~ why do you think they would need to pass such a law?

 

My point is ~ take some time ~ get your head together, get your act together, learn, and grow in those areas that you need to learn and grow, adn then get back out there in the game. There's guys out there who don't care how many kids you got. I beliee Lor Stepdad was one of those guys.

 

There's a whole world out there and whole life worth living. The sum total of your being, your exsistence, your life is not wrapped up in this one single person! Get busy moving on! Dump this clown!

 

Just re-frame it, what would you do if he went out and got ran over by a bus ~ instead of divorcing you ~ you'd get a big check from the insusrance companies and could sue the bus company. Well he didn't ~ and so what you need to do is sue his ass, and make him pay!

[mum2three]

Well, I told you that I lost it after Divorce Busting and being cordial since coming back from Thanksgiving. I sifted thru the wrapped gifts in the basement and came across a Gymboree box with a little girls outfit. It had a gift receipt and was bought in a location that I didn't think my husband ever frequented.

 

 

So I was trying to play it cool and complimented him on picking such a cute outfit. He acted like he went to get it etc. Meanwhile the bottle rockets are shooting from my head. So I asked him why he would go to a mall that is 40 min away when we have the same store 10 min away. He replied by saying that it wasn't that far from his second office. Then the m-80's started to explode in me. I said, "really, that date on the gift receipts states that you were in the first office that is 7 min away?" He is still trying to play it off.

 

 

So I kept hammering him about telling me the truth and that is all I want at this point. Finally, he said it was a favor from someone whom he helped purchase an ipod for her son. She paid him back and she was just returning a favor by helping him pick out an outfit for my little girl and he paid her back.

 

 

I do recall asking him a few wks ago about some other mail package with cell accessories and he said he helped someone at work buy it on ebay and he was getting reimbursed. I had no idea he was doing so many favors for people or a person. But I am truly upset and stinkin' mad that he didn't have the decency to ask the mother of his child to pick out an outfit for an X'mas present.

 

 

We were suppose to be on good terms. I had no idea that he would even tell an "aquaintance" from work to pick something out for my little girl when I am right here under the same roof and we are still functioning together. Am I being petty???

 

 

Since we aren't even living in separate households, I assume that he would buy the kids gifts from "us" but apparently he doesn't consider me family anymore. He had all the gifts secretly wrapped up and stored downstairs. I wasn't planning on buying any gifts for the kids b/c he said he bought alot. I didn't think he was leaving me out of the gift tag when we weren't even divorced.

 

 

I didn't plan on celebrating the official X'mas with him and the kids b/c he was having his family over. His family supports his decision so I think it's best we don;t interact. He talked about all the gifts he was getting them etc. We did get the tree with the kids this wk but he didn't help decorate or anything. He just let enjoy the moment alone with the kids. He is so kind.

 

 

So I was going to go home for a week to spend with my family while he was off. He didn't act surprised but relieved when I said I was taking a few days off. He always says that he can take care of the kids by himself and his parents will definitely be around. I know the kids will be fine but I do feel terrible for skipping the holidays. I am not in a festive mood. It has taken all my strength to even carry on daily with taking care of them and keeping it cordial with Divorce Busting.

 

 

Now I feel like throwing his clothes in a suitcase and kicking him to the curb. I don't know anyone who is divorced so I don't have any references for a kick-ass attorney. Any suggestions on how to find one?

 

 

Btw, what do you mean by getting finances in place? Sorry for the simple minded questions but I think I am clueless on the D-process. My husband was the money manager. I have access to the ATM that has a few hundred dollars for the nanny only. I never requested my own back acct. All I know is that he does all the on-line banking and has a 401K and kids education fund. I don't have access to the online bancking info.

 

 

He has always been smart about the purse strings. We married young and he finished med school, then residency, and boom the house and kids. His practice is doing well now and I thought after all these years of studying and working from the bottom up that we can finally enjoy life as a family.

 

 

I even decided to cut him alot of slack for not being supportive emotionally with my condition because it was a stressful year taking care of 3 young children. I relied alot on him to care for the kids because i was so laid up in pain to function and the sex wasn't frequent. He was working a demanding job and caring for the kids after work. We had nannies in and out so I could function during the day when he is at work. We had alot of fights and distances this year but the D-bomb with no chance of reconciliation was a curve ball for me.

 

 

thanks Anna and Gunny. I can't believe that you guys are real. It's amazing the sense of strength i get when I read everyones stories and posts. I am so glad for the internet. Otherwise I would be staring at the ceiling right now. I may still do that but someone out there is listening to me.

 

 

Any practical, legal suggestions aka "get my crap" together, kick in the butt advice would be appreciated. I feel like I have lived in a cocoon the past 5 yrs just caring for the kids and the family. I only know about kid's sales and paying tuition for preschool. It is my fault that I am not kept myself abreast of the finances. I was living everyday just thinking that I am married to a man who is supposed to stand by me in sickness and in health. I was stupid.

 

 

Thanks guys and gals. I am so glad to have finally posted here.

[Gunny376]

First off, this guy's an MD and isn't savy to your medical condition? WTF ~ over? This guy's an MD and isn't savy to your decreased desire for intimacy?

 

And, I hope your not buying his BS about the XMAS presents. Come on! The reason he's relieved that your going to your folks, and he gets the kids is because he's going to get to spend some time with the OW. If it was me, I'd pull one out of the gurrellia warfare handbook, head to the folks place, and double back on him and see what the hell's the deal.

 

As far as lawyers go ~ if anyone ever needed one its you. As pecking order goes, Divorce Law isn't the more platable nor more lurcative type of law. But, there are those that are good at it. Just for started look up a woman lawyer. There shouldn't be any charge for your intial consulation. The intial meeting is just a get to know one another. To see if there's a good fit. As a general rule speak to at least three or more. Like anything, you want to shop and compare. I'm not say going for a "go for the throat" lawyer, generally not a good idea ~ things go from nasty to nastier quick and in a hurry like. But in your case, he's problly got so much of the martial assets (that you're entitled to) so hidden, and buried you're going to need a pretty sharpe guy or gal. Don't worry about the expense, ~ the law has dealt with this before ~ and can force him to pay for your legal help ~ in certain cases. I wouldn't sweat it for now.

 

For now, I would be shopping around for an attorney. Shop around, talk to at least three. Keep posting.

 

My vote? He's got another woman in the wings!

 

Keep posting ~ others will post, by and by. If they don't I will. More later ~ got to hit the rack for now.

 

Hang tough there kid, it gets better, and this isn't the end of the world. BTW, that 401K ~ half of that is yours. Half the equity in the house ~ is yours. Half of the household goods or equivalent value of such is yours. Half of the checking account ~ is yours. The kids? In 90% of the divorce cases the wife gets custody of the children.

 

You come across as though your a babe lost in the woods

[Gunny376]

I apoligize for the bad grammar ~ burning the candle at both ends these last couple of weeks.

[Ladyjane14]

So I kept hammering him about telling me the truth and that is all I want at this point. Finally, he said it was a favor from someone whom he helped purchase an ipod for her son. She paid him back and she was just returning a favor by helping him pick out an outfit for my little girl and he paid her back.

 

Hmmmm.... sounds like we've got an OW on the radar screen.

 

Take a look at THIS thread: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t106826/

As you can see, an OW buying gifts for the MM's children isn't all that unusual.

 

I agree with every word Gunny has told you. IMO, there's a REALLY good chance you've got 'a snake in your woodpile'.

 

While it's true that occasionally a MM will decide he wants a divorce for his own reasons... it's generally pretty rare. If I had to hazard a guess at the stats, I'd say something like 90% of the time there's another woman waiting in the wings. Here you are in the beginnings of the process at the HOLIDAY SEASON. Now, if there wasn't pressure from some other quarter, why wouldn't he have waited until after the holidays to make his move?

 

The general plan for adulterers is to keep the betrayed spouse ignorant of the affair. In their minds this accomplishes two things:

 

It greases the wheel for settlement in the divorce process because even in NO FAULT states, there's a human element. A judge who's offended by someone's behavior is going to be a little bit more supportive of the sympathetic character in whatever decisions that aren't predisposed by law.

 

The other reason is the social aspect of it. They can perpetrate a fraud upon all their friends and family and act like they just met. To their minds, what people don't know won't hurt 'em. Cheaters don't like to be "judged" for their actions. They don't want to have to pay for them either.

 

'THE PLAN' calls for the least muss and fuss they can arrange while the re-cast the OW in the role of wife and mother and put YOU out. If you don't believe people are capable of that, you won't have to read far in the OW forum to know better.

 

Your best bet is to get yourself an attorney TODAY. Your husband may want a divorce, and he'll get one too if he's determined enough. But you are at ZERO obligation to help him in accomplishing that goal.

 

If he wants to meet with a mediator, let him. YOU don't have to. He can talk to your attorney instead. And don't worry about the money. Your lawyer will figure out a way to get paid, believe me. Most of them can even put you in touch with a good PI, who'll help you get the FACTS.

 

 

Which brings me to another point. You can't fight what you can't see. You need to know EVERYTHING that's going on here.

 

Here's another thread for you:

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t105990/

This one doesn't apply to your current situation in alot of ways. In this case, the affair has already been discovered and the married couple is moving toward reconciliation.

 

I bring it to your attention because there are book references, and some good posts by Romeo Must Die and Veronese where you'll find some sleuthing and coping tips.

 

If you'll forgive me for not typing it all out, here's a reprint of a post I made to someone else with more sleuthing tips:

I would say your best bet would probably be to engage an attorney at this point. S/He should be able to refer you to a reputable private investigator. Unfortunately, you're unlikely to get the whole truth out of your husband.

 

Meeting with an attorney does NOT mean that you will necessarily decide to file for divorce at this time, but you CAN start taking steps that will help you to prevent the loss of your assets. Sometimes, a guy/gal who's already bent on divorce will start moving the money around. You need to have a full accounting of your assets in case that starts happening.

 

There are ways that you can do quite a bit of investigating on your own. If you're uncomfortable doing that... I think a PI would be best. If you're okay with it, you'll start by contacting your cell phone company either by phone or by email and requesting a full 'detail report' on your cell phone numbers.

 

Also.... contact your bank and credit card companies and again... request detailed reports. Affairs aren't cheap (at least in fiscal terms), so the married person will most often use CASH. That said, the cash would be unaccounted for in your bank records. And... there's always the possiblility too that a cheater will get sloppy. One charge to a gas station out of town, on a day when s/he shouldn't have been out of town... tells you something.

 

If you find these records impossible to get your hands on, you may need your attorney's help in order to subpoena them, in which case you'll most likely be required to 'file'. We've had quite a few discussions here at LS lately about the ethics behind accepting money and gifts from a married person. These are most often taken from joint marital assets and are largely recoverable at settlement. I should think that it's possible, depending on where you live, you might even bring a civil suit against the OW in order to recover your damages.

 

The email and computer records are STILL in his PC... even if he deletes them until the memory is overwritten. An expert can usually find them. The PI can probably hook you up with the right people.

 

If that isn't an option for you, passwords and whatnot are usually jotted down where the cheater can get to them. Search for them. Also, the cheater will usually remember to clear his/her history... but they often forget to clear the cookies. You can at least find out what sites and programs he's accessing.

 

My advice to you is to BE SMART. Keep your investigation COVERT. If your husband is cheating (and it sounds like he is)... it's not like he's being honest and forthcoming with you. So don't feel bad about returning the favor.

 

Tipping him off to the fact that you're suspicious will drive the affair further underground and make it more difficult to catch him.

And "catching him" is important. A cheater will lie 'til you rub the truth on his nose due to the addictive quality of the affair. He's going to protect his affair first and foremost so he can keep getting his 'fix'.

 

You can't fight what you can't SEE. And it's unlikely that your husband is going to tell you the truth... so get in the game and protect yourself and your family.

 

Meantime.... read these two books. Do it ASAP. Surviving an Affair by Willard Harley and Divorce Busting by Michelle Weiner Davis. Both these authors have websites which you should definately peruse. You'll find them by utilizing your browser.

 

What you'll learn from the books are ways to fight the affair. By using these methods... you can sometimes put an OW or OM completely out of business.

 

Again.... I think a COVERT study might be best. It wouldn't do for your husband to have access to your tools.

 

While you're doing all this, give some thought to the question of whether you even WANT to attempt reconcilliation at all. It's difficult work, and it's emotionally painful. Depending on your relationship.... you might be happier to just dump his ass out of hand.

 

 

You need to get educated FAST on the dynamics of affairs. And even though you're hurting right now, you need to protect your family. There's a HUGE 'disconnect' in the primary relationship when a guy is cheating. He won't look out for your best interests right now. No matter what he says... you can't trust him to do that.

 

As difficult as it is, you'll have to pull yourself up by the bootstraps and help yourself. You're in a crisis situation, and you don't have any time to spare in emotionalism. There's time for that later if need be.

[Ladyjane14]

I had alot of gyn problems which restricted me from lifting and being on my feet too long. My husband was never supportive of me during this time. Sex was infrequent this past year because of my condition.

 

I want you to put this part of your post in perspective. You've stated that you husband is a doctor, right?

 

Well... you don't need a Sherman Tank to swat a fly.

 

He dropped the D-bomb on you over what was essentially a MEDICAL problem. The fact that he's a doctor should have provoked him to treat the problem as a medical one. And even if he believed in his heart that there was an emotional issue at work... there were other options available to him. He might have suggested (or even INSISTED on) counceling or sex therapy. He might have bought books and TALKED to you about solutions.

 

If he didn't do all that, then you've got to ask yourself 'why'.

 

A cheater will transfer the blame to the betrayed party. If it's all your fault, he doesn't have to feel like he's a bad person, does he?

 

Please save yourself some guilt and agony.... and don't buy in to these excuses. Yes... there were problems in the marriage and those problems were SERIOUS ones. But there exists the probability, given the circumstances, that this excuse is largely a disingenuous feint used in an effort to make you believe these problems were insurmountable.

 

Have a look at the "Unmet Needs" thread while you're at it:

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t105856/

[Ladyjane14]

So I was going to go home for a week to spend with my family while he was off. He didn't act surprised but relieved when I said I was taking a few days off. He always says that he can take care of the kids by himself and his parents will definitely be around. I know the kids will be fine but I do feel terrible for skipping the holidays.

 

Sorry, I keep thinking about your sitch... and I had another thought for you.

 

If you're going to be out of town during the holidays, this is the PERFECT time to put a PI on him. I guarantee you if he's having an affair, and you put a tail on him... you WILL catch him.

 

OWs don't like the idea of the MM spending time with his wife and family while they're spending the holidays ALONE. Special occasions are a time when OWs seek alot of reassurance from the MM. And it's pretty much impossible for him to keep his nose clean due to the pressure of making OW feel secure.

 

Your operations need to be completely COVERT though. Stealth is the key. The affair will go deeper underground if you tip your hand.

 

Keep your resources to yourself, and make sure you're wiping sites like LS from your history, temp files and cookies too.

[mum2three]

He denied anything last nite. I couldn't sleep and he was awake at 4 am and I hashed it out with him. "Disconnected" is the exact word. He has no feelings of friendship or loyalty to me at all. I told him that I didn't appreciate another woman picking out clothes for my daughter when I am still under the same roof. He sure has balls...(excuse the french).

 

He just kept saying that he is in a different place than I am in the relationship. He can't go back and there is nothing to give me. I told him that I at least treat him with respect even though I know his wishes for us. All he said that was he hasn't treated me much different than any other day this past year. And this year was hell for me physically. I guess I always expected him to prevail in sickness and in health but he is bailing out.

 

He acknowledges that I am trying but says he can't do anything about what is not there. He said that he is not angry at me and I told him that I am pissed at him. He's like "I don't expect you to like it." Gosh, things are terribly wrong. I don't think I woke up fast enough.

 

Thanks for the advice. Funny how no one has encouraged me to keep this relationship. Maybe the eyes on the outside are more telling.

 

Love u all!!!

[Gunny376]

He's caught up in the "fog" of the affair. The good news is that when they're caught up in the "fog" you can do only two things wrong! Everything you do! And everything you say.

 

Me thinks no one is encouraging you to "save" the relationship because it takes two to make it and one to break it ~ and you've not posted any indication that he's even willing in the slightest anyway shape, form, nor fashion to even begin to save and reconcile the marriage.

 

IMHO he's having an affair ~ no if, ands, nor question. I mean this XMAS business. A married man doesn't ask another woman to shop for his children ~ its just not done. Or at least no where that I'm aware of ~ and I've been all over and have lived all over the world.

 

From right out of the "Cheaters Handbook" (this is from a site that actually tells you how to cheat on your spouse!)

 

[FONT=Arial] [/FONT]

<H2>Habits that will give you away

 

One or two minor changed habits by themselves usually don't raise suspicion as they could be attributed on anything. However.... if there are two or more major lifestyle changes, your spouse will begin to wonder what you're up to, especially if your habits seem to change "out of the blue".

1. A sudden upturn in your demeanor or outlook on life.

In its initial stages, a new romance can add unaccustomed vitality to your expressions. You may show some of your renewed sense of well being toward your spouse, thereby raising suspicion.

2. You're constantly late.

A feature shared by all extramarital affairs is a shortage of time. Because you're forced to steal moments for your lover, there will be a sudden increase in the number of times you're late coming home for dinner, family occasions or official functions.

3. Your spouse notices a sudden increase or decrease in sexual interest toward them.

An illicit affair is as likely to heighten as to lower your sexual interest in your spouse. All must appear normal if you want to avoid suspicion. Do not attempt new or unusual sexual positions

4. You start being more possessive toward your wallet, pocket calendar or briefcase.

This is definitely true when it comes to my briefcase. If asked, my response will be that I caught one of the kid's in my briefcase some time ago and simply don't want them to be able to get into it again. I don't recommend keeping anything suspicious in your wallet. Names in the pocket calendar are coded even if my spouse were to snoop through it

 

5. You come home more often with alcohol on your breath.

"I know where you were... I can smell booze on your breath again... So who were you with?" Unless you've always stayed out one or two nights a week for a drink with your fellow work mates, this will cause suspicion.

6. You start talking about getting together with old friends you haven't seen in years.

[sIZE=3]In your effort to try to find time for your lover, getting together with old friends appears to be a convenient way to account for time away. Make sure your spouse doesn't know too much about them.... particularly how to contact them. [/sIZE]

7. You start taking a renewed interest in your appearance.

... And why wouldn't you? You are now "dating" again and you want to look your best. Be careful here. Your spouse will notice this change and wonder why.

8. You start shopping for new clothes.

See above No. 7

9. You start keeping an overnight bag in your car or office, ostensibly for a workout or a game of tennis.

This makes sense if you have done this all along, but if this is a new thing for you, it can cause suspicion, especially if the bag doesn't contain any sports paraphernalia.

10. You order dishes you've never ordered before.

A new love tends to put one into an adventurous mood, often trying new things when with our lovers. Be careful about extending your new tastes too quickly into your other permanent relationship, especially if you have always been hesitant to try new foods before.

11. You often "forget" to wear your wedding ring.

This is a HUGE indicator to your spouse that something is up.

12. You start working late and on holidays and weekends.

If you start "working" at times that are unusual for you, make sure this can be backed up somehow. What if your spouse tries to call you at "work"?

13. You start to insist on answering the phone.

Giving your lover your home phone number is asking for trouble. This can be very touchy if you should have a falling out with your lover. Dashing for the phone every time it rings will cause alarm bells to go off in your spouse's head.

14. At odd hours you start remembering things you forgot to do at the office.

Once again, the need for accountable time away from home causes us to look for more creative excuses. This might work for a one time only emergency type of situation. It is NOT a good idea to do this regularly.

15. You smell of a different soap from the brand at home or you smell freshly showered at 1.00am.

This is a biggie folks. Smells are extremely suspicious, particularly unusual smells or odors on you and your clothing.

 

16. You buy your spouse gifts that show a new level of taste or insight about the opposite sex.

17. You make a point of keeping your car free of paraphernalia belonging to your spouse or the kids.

18. You start attending extended seminars or conventions.

19. You start using new words and phrases.

20. You take a new interest in your anticipated schedule.

21. You encourage your spouse to go alone to visit parents or friends. 22. You don't look at other women/men as much as you used to.

23. You take the dog for much longer walks than you used to.

24. Your spouse hears you making more phone calls late at night.

25. Your spouse senses a marked change of attitude towards you on the part of your secretary, colleagues or friends.

26. You suddenly take up new hobbies or friends that take you out of the house in the evenings and weekends.

27. You talk about a movie that you've seen but your spouse hasn't.

28. You express opinions on subjects you never used to take an interest in.

29. You call out a different name in your sleep or while making love to your spouse.

30. You suggest you open up separate checking accounts.

 

My concern isn't so much what's gone down thus far too date, but that's he trying to set you up for a divorce settlement less than what your entitled to. Guys like this are kind of self assured to the point that they think they know all to end all ~ and after all he's an MD and your just a housewife ~ what do you know.

 

For further insight into a cheater's mind:

 

http://www.philanderers.com/page_1.htm

[Ladyjane14]

Funny how no one has encouraged me to keep this relationship.

 

Honey, there's no reason why the marriage can't be eventually reconciled. People overcome Infidelity all the time.

 

But you can't get started until the REAL FACTS are on the table. Reconstruction requires honesty. And it requires hard work.

 

As long as this guy is fulfilling his fantasy, he can't possibly bring his "A-game". His emotional energy is already spent on the OW if he's having an affair. He can't work with you, because he can't see the REAL YOU. His perception of you is so skewed that you've become an adversary without potential for future partnership.

 

We bust up the affair. Drag it kicking and screaming into the daylight... and then the parameters CHANGE. Things that seemed impossible before, have a new chance.

 

In a situation like yours... you're gonna either have to play hardball or sit it out on the bench. Your chances for recovery if you're riding the bench are almost nil. So... get in the game. You've got NOTHING to lose that isn't already lost.

[Gunny376]

Honey, there's no reason why the marriage can't be eventually reconciled. People overcome Infidelity all the time.

 

But you can't get started until the REAL FACTS are on the table. Reconstruction requires honesty. And it requires hard work.

 

As long as this guy is fulfilling his fantasy, he can't possibly bring his "A-game". His emotional energy is already spent on the OW if he's having an affair. He can't work with you, because he can't see the REAL YOU. His perception of you is so skewed that you've become an adversary without potential for future partnership.

 

We bust up the affair. Drag it kicking and screaming into the daylight... and then the parameters CHANGE. Things that seemed impossible before, have a new chance.

 

In a situation like yours... you're gonna either have to play hardball or sit it out on the bench. Your chances for recovery if you're riding the bench are almost nil. So... get in the game. You've got NOTHING to lose that isn't already lost.

 

Lady Jane is right ~ you can 't lose something you don't have, you can't lose something you've already lost. In so far as he's concerned, in so long he's got his head in the "fog" of the affair, (aka as his head up his ass), you're the "invisible woman" with no redeeming factors in your affair. Drag the affair out into the open and expose it for what it is ~ and then you have something to work with.

 

And to be honest, getting mad, and demanding respect is what IMHO you should be doing. Wouldn't you be mad if someone broke into your home and stole from you? Wouldn't you feel violated, and betrayed, and dis-respected? Of course you would. Well that's what's happened here.

 

Your a smart woman, be patient, cool like a stalking cat. Get the goods on him and then you've can go from there. But, as I said in my previous post ~ until you can engage him back into the maritial dance ~ there's nothing to reconcile.

[Ladyjane14]

In so far as he's concerned, in so long he's got his head in the "fog" of the affair, (aka as his head up his ass), you're the "invisible woman" with no redeeming factors in your affair. Drag the affair out into the open and expose it for what it is ~ and then you have something to work with.

 

Exactly.

 

Once "the plan" is FUBAR.... Reality interrupts what was otherwise a pretty good fantasy. The fantasy bubble bursts, and as the "fog" begins to clear... Dr. Do-a-little is forced to deal with the fact that this thing isn't going to go down as easy as he thought it would.

 

The only thing left to do at that point is to reevaluate his position.

 

For a betrayed wife who plays her cards right... this is the in-road. Because once the fantasy is revealed, it becomes less appealing to the MM. He begins to see it more and more as the path to Chaos. This will often lead him to doubt if the affair is worth all the trouble.

[anna13]

Btw, what do you mean by getting finances in place? Sorry for the simple minded questions but I think I am clueless on the D-process. My husband was the money manager. I have access to the ATM that has a few hundred dollars for the nanny only. I never requested my own back acct. All I know is that he does all the on-line banking and has a 401K and kids education fund. I don't have access to the online bancking info.

So many women end up in this situation so you are not alone at all , what you should do is take a written inventory of all bank accounts you know about , the account numbers, the banks, try to find out about all his assets and the kids education funds that he may have also. in other words find and right down everythingthing and anything he has like that . The attorney will want to know this once you find a good one. if you have some money in an account with your name and it is a joint account, protect it move it into a new account that is only in your name ( maybe the couple of hundred dollars you have for the nanny. ) Don't assume that your H wont hit below the belt. . think of it this way , this is for your own survival , your H is not thinking of you right now , so you need to be your own best friend. go get some free counciltations with a few lawyers, women lawyers might be better since they can probobly understand your feelings better. find one that clicks with you . no matter how angry you get , do not tell your H that you are looking for a lawyer or even that you might be looking for a lawyer. also dont let him find out that you are trying to attain info about his finances. this is all information you keep to yourself. . NO MORE of sharing everything with him , he has lost the privlage of knowing about everything that is going on with your life. keep it to yourself, your thoughts, your plans, your money ,it is none of his business anymore. OW or not, he is saying that he is just done with all of this right? . . and he has been thinking about it for a year, no i think it is more like he has used the year to validate his own reasons and to alleviate any guilt he may have so by now he has no guilt because he has mulled over it and planned over a year. take care of you and your kids first.

[Gunny376]

Exactly.

 

Once "the plan" is FUBAR.... Reality interrupts what was otherwise a pretty good fantasy. The fantasy bubble bursts, and as the "fog" begins to clear... Dr. Do-a-little is forced to deal with the fact that this thing isn't going to go down as easy as he thought it would.

 

The only thing left to do at that point is to reevaluate his position.

 

ROTFLMAO! :lmao:

 

Or as we use to say in the Marine Corps:

 

"When your up to your azz in alligators, water moccasins, rattlers, and coral snakes ~ its hard to remember that your initial objective was to drain the swamp!"

 

And, I think you've hit the nail on the head Lady Jane~ I believe the old boy thinks this thing is going to be as easy as one, two buckle my show! I think he's been watching the "Betty Brodrick" story on Lifetime one too many times. Thing was Dan Brodrick was an MD and an attorney.

[anna13]

Sorry for the simple minded questions but I think I am clueless on the D-process

the lawyer will help you sort things out and will help you with the steps you need to take. just look up family law in the phone book when your H is not around at all, and look under divorse , call each lawers office up and tell them you need a counciltation (spelling?) when you are talking to the attorney tell her your situtation , immediately tell them that your H has has all controll of the finances over the years and you have 3 kids to support and your afraid that he will leave you with nothing.and ask the lawyer what they can do for you. see if you feel comfortable with the attorney . remember that you are hiring the attorney so get one you are comfortable with . I havent been to a divorse attorney but many here have I am sure , but that is what i would do if i were in your situation. I have a girlfriend who is divorsed and now remarried to a wonderful guy , but she said she will always have her own bank accounts and IRA and investments that do not have her new husbands name on it, because she didnt think that her XH would hit below the belt but her X did , he stole her identity and charge tons of credit cards to max them out and left her with nothing. so never again. she says she loves her husband now but she will never put herself in such a vulnerable situation again. I think we can all learn from these kind of situations, dont feel guilty about sneaking around finding and attorney , remember you are not filing for a divorse you are just having a counsiltation to see what your options are and see more clearly what your situation is , that way when you do really need the lawyer you will know exactly who to call . hang in there.

[mum2three]

Hi all,

 

Thanks again for all your posts and listening. I hope to get to the strength that all of you have here one day soon. I went to see a marriage counselor by myself because he refused. But on a positive note, I think it is better that way. I feel that I need to focus on me without any distractions. Hey, 45 minutes is not enough for the both of us at this point. I know from reading everyone else's stories that we can only change and control our actions. So I am slowly taking my power back.

 

My first steps in doing that was to give him some ground rules so that we can coexist under the same roof. Otherwise, I was ready to kick his butt out the door.

 

First, I told him that i am no longer his back up childcare. If he had any time off or several hours unscheduled between patients then he has to ask me what am I doing that time so that he can be available for childcare if I need a break. I told him that I didn't need a detailed report documenting his time and place but that he needs to be equally as available to take care of the kids when he is not scheduled to work.

 

My husband always took it for granted to sign up for extracurricular professional activities that would pay him good money per hour. He always said that the extra money helps to pay for the nanny. I told him that was fine when he wanted this marriage. I gave up my personal time and energy so that we can have more for the family. But now I told him that extra money should be going straight to my pocket because my time is valuable too.

 

In my humble opinion, it is not the extra money that is important because it helps but it's not making or breaking us. But it is the fact that I am constantly on-call for this family 24/7. His schedule the other day was: Worked in the a.m.; holiday party at noon, afternoon off, did paid professional activity; then 6pm meeting/holiday party; and then went to help his sister do some handywork.

 

My day started at 7am to 10pm with the kids/household nonstop. It is draining to continue doing this when I am investing all my energies in this household when he wants out of marriage asap. I thought he was going to do handywork for his sister in the afternoon so if his nite meeting ended early then he could be home earlier so I can rest too. I told him time is money. I can't expect a nanny to operate all those hours in a day even if I paid her. She rests at 8:30pm (the latest) and does not get up during the nite. I am constantly available round the clock and that is burning me out.

 

 

Second, I told him his actions such as not wearing his ring and asking other people to buy a gift for my daughter gives me reasonable suspicion not to trust him. He also said that he has left the marriage a long time ago. Therefore, I asked him if he wanted an open marriage and surprisingly he said "no". I think sometimes cheaters may feel it is ok for them to cheat but not their spouse. I don't know if it means much but I took the answer for what it is. So I said, "good, then I still feel the responsibility of letting you know who I am with, what I am doing, and when I'll return when I go out when he is off on the wkends."

 

Third, I told him that I am putting my 3 yr old in daycare in Jan. so that I can be away from the home for several hours or work if I can without worrying. It is easier to find sitters and nannies to care for one child (my 2 yr old) than two kids. I will still be available to shuffle kids to and from school.

 

Fourth, I told him even if we get all the kids in daycare I am not doing the backbreaking house chores so I can preserve my health. Afterall, I need to look out for myself now. I am not risking more gyn problems so that he can leave me in a couple of months and I may or may not have health insurance and I need to think about my needs for a future mate without more gyn issues.

 

He was still one upping me when I told him all this. He said he doesn;t expect anything from me at this point. He can do the laundry and dishes etc. I told him he can do all the chores if he wants but he is not allowed to resent me for them. He said he won;t resent me if I just let him do it his way and not criticize. I said fine, whether it's you or a cleaner/nanny, just different faces but it's the same chores that need to be done.

 

In the past, I would have tried to argue or justify why it is unneccessary to do it all yourself. But I know it's a waste of my energy. I can't make a type A person who wants all this control see my point that spending any extra time and energy for the marriage and family is more important than running around doing every single chore yourself. I know that I can't physically do it anymore and won't! My health would have probably been alot better if I wasn't trying to play catch with him all the time breaking my back to get things done when i surely needed to let my body rest after having 3 kids back to back.

 

He may be mentally out the door but i am not letting him walk out spitting at me! Sorry about the long post. But I am not taking this crap from someone who is not emotionally available to deal with real like situations. I don';t want to be crippled by someone else's actions. Peace out!

[mum2three]

Fifth, I was going to manage my own bills so I can now access the bank accts on-line too.

 

Sixth, I told him that I know he wants out asap but mediation is not going to happen tomorrow. I told him that I needed time to get myself together so I can take care of the kids in the event that we are divorced. I told him that I enjoyed my counseling session today because it helps me focus on what I need to do. I like to continue that for my mental health to be strong for the kids.

 

I was on fire tonite!! Hope I am in the right direction....

[mamabear]

I hate what your husband is doing to you, how dare he do this when you have worked so hard all these years with 3 kids and a household!? I think men never seem to realize that kids and a household are like 3 full time jobs!!! With no paycheck!

My view of divorce is this:

 

When one wants to divorce the other for a reason that is as pointless as your situation sounds (it could be fixed if your H got his head out of his butt) that basically you are not only slapping the person your pledged your love, life commitment and through better or for worse to, till death do you part etc.........but also god, all your family and friends that were present for your marriage.

 

Your husband all these peoples time. You DO NOT pledge this to god if you are not going to stick with someone through the good times and bad, I sure hope your husband doesnt consider himself a religious man.

 

my heart breaks for you, you deserve so much better, it looks to me from your posts that YOU are doing whatever you can, and in the end remember that no matter what way it turns out that at least YOU did everything you could and that YOUU stuck by your word.

[Gunny376]

As they say in the Marine Corps,.............................

 

 

GET SOME! OOOOORAAHHH!!

[mum2three]

I wish every minute was a high like I had power. Tonite is tough because after he put the kids to bed he said he was going to the mall to finish x'mas shopping. I really hate the fact that he can still go through with the holidays and just move on like he said.

 

Then, the thought of him giving the "possible" OW's children just kills me.

[Ladyjane14]

Good to see you have started counseling. I think it's going to help you in two ways. One, you'll be getting emotional support and specific guidance you need. Two, you're working on the issues that YOU have brought to the marriage table in the past.

 

This is important to the WS. He needs to know that you are actively addressing his complaints. Right now... these "complaints" are completely overblown in his mind. This is, afterall, the basis of his rationalization to seek outside the marriage. Without it... he has no excuse.

 

I wish every minute was a high like I had power. Tonite is tough because after he put the kids to bed he said he was going to the mall to finish x'mas shopping. I really hate the fact that he can still go through with the holidays and just move on like he said.

 

Then, the thought of him giving the "possible" OW's children just kills me.

 

Do you believe he's alone when he's Christmas shopping or going to holiday parties?

 

If not, this is THE BEST TIME to bust him. As I said before, the OW tends to get all needy during the holidays, and the MM is between a rock and a hard place in pacifying her. He's certain get sloppy, and you'll catch him when he does. Daylight's burning though, so you need to move quickly.

 

You said on another thread that your husband comes off as the 'perfect family man'. It's going to wear his ass out when he can no longer pull that illusion off for the key people in his life. This deflates the fantasy bubble to the extent that he may come to the realization that the fantasy is unworkable. Those "key people" are not necessarily going to accept a 'homewrecker' with the same largesse they might have otherwise shown a completely new S/O.

 

Meanwhile back at the ranch... if you don't know who he's seeing, you also don't know what her particular situation is. She might have a spouse and kids of her own. And what works to pop your WH's bubble, might work just as handily popping OW's.

 

Say for example, she's also 'married with kids' and is busily perpetrating the same scheme in her own home.... the old "I-love-you-but-I'm-not-IN-LOVE-with-you-let's-get-a-nice-amicable-divorce" tactic.

 

Well that's not going to work NEARLY as well when hubby finds out what she's been up to is it? She'd have problems of her own to deal with at that point.

 

And even if she's single, there are still people around her she'd have to deal with. Say, she met your husband through work... Well, you think she's going to enjoy her job half as much when her boss finds out she's behaving inappropriately with married doctors?

 

So, you see how "THE PLAN" starts falling apart once a few key people are made aware of the facts.

 

Now, I personally don't advocate "Exposure" to the the degree they commonly recommend it at marriagebuilders. It's a double-edged sword that can cut the betrayed spouse just as deeply as it cuts the WS. You can't go around as some do, behaving in a manner more befitting to Chicken Little crying out that "the sky is falling".

 

But in the right hands, applied to just the right areas.... 'Exposure' becomes a scalpel, cutting the cancer out of your marriage.

 

You can't use it until you know who the key players are though. You NEED to get your hands on that information, and you need to get it quickly before the divorce progresses too much further. This is imperative.

 

In the meantime, familiarize yourself with marriagebuilder's plan A. You can type into your browser..."what are plan a and plan b, marriagebuilders" and find it quickly.

 

In Plan A... you'll be presenting a more attractive alternative to the wreck and ruin the affair is certain to cause. This does NOT mean that you behave as a doormat, or that you don't do what's necessary to protect your family in legal terms. What it does mean is that you prove to your husband that you're addressing the issues he's concerned with, and that you open new lines of communications with him. You would also be providing as many ENs (emotional needs) as he will allow.

 

Right now, if he's doing what I think he is, OW has become his "soft place to fall". She's the one he's talking to. She's the one providing the bulk of his ENs. You need to beat her time on that score. He's closed off to you, that's true. But he's still in the home, and you have daily access to him. Use it shamelessly.

 

I'm going to be honest with you.... when reestablishing Emotional Intimacy, the best tool is Physical Intimacy. Now, I say that with some trepidation, because you don't know exactly where he's been. STD's are always a concern if you suspect your mate has been unfaithful.

 

That said, if your confidence level is HIGH in the idea that your husband, a doctor, would assiduously avoid this kind of contamination... hey, sexual intimacy is the best tool in your arsenal. It helps to reestablish emotional Intimacy and it pisses the OW off HORRIBLY if she gets wind of it.

 

Her choice at that point is to either stew in private, or bitch in his ear. And OWs can't afford to cause problems for the MM, by virtue of the idea that he's mainly with her in an effort to AVOID problems.

Anyway, it's difficult to "stew". Nine times out of ten, the OW won't be able to pull it off, and she'll dig her own grave.

 

So... the better your relationship is within the marriage... the worse the OW will fare.

 

Physical Intimacy is not the only tool at your disposal, so even if it's off the table for now... there are still other ways you can accomplish your goal of reestablishing emotional intimacy. You'll want to commit the information on LoveBusters to memory over at MB and then use that information to refrain from causing any additional damage.

 

Also, read the article on The Three States of Mind in Marriage. Pay particular attention to the section on "How One Spouse Can Lead the other Back to Intimacy". In this section, you'll see the importance of resisting your "taker" as you renegotiate with your partner.

 

This whole process is HUGELY demanding of the betrayed spouse. You're in a situation in which you can't get your own emotional needs met for the foreseeable future. It's draining, and it's going to make you sooooo very angry from time to time. Your "taker" is going to be screaming in your ear 24/7.

 

But you're the ONLY one who's willing to do the work. Your WH isn't gonna do it. So, if you want a chance to reconcile your marriage, there's nothing for it but to roll up your sleeves and do what you need to do.

 

If you allow yourself to indulge in your own emotions and your own anger... you are COOKED. Unfortunately, just like OW... you're dealing with a man who's not going to respond in a positive way to bitchy women. ( Please bear in mind that I'm not saying you're a "bitchy woman"... but rather that your husband's perception right now is his TRUTH. )

 

This is why you have to be doing it better than OW. You already have more to offer him than she does in terms of family and history. Now... he has to see your potential for true partnership.

[Ladyjane14]

Unfortunately, just like OW... you're dealing with a man who's not going to respond in a positive way to bitchy women. ( Please bear in mind that I'm not saying you're a "bitchy woman"... but rather that your husband's perception right now is his TRUTH. )

 

I'm sorry, I just realized that you probably don't see the light at the end of the tunnel.

 

You won't always have to tiptoe around your feelings, honey. This is a temporary situation..... lengthly, but still temporary.

 

Once your husband's perception of you changes, and after he's stepped 'out of the fog', he'll be able to cope with you in a more meaningful way. By then, the two of you will have better communications tools, and will both be better equipped to make your marriage a two-way street again.

 

You know, weirdly enough, wayward spouses post-recovery can't quite identify with their previous thought pattern. It's like they'd been kidnapped by space aliens or something.

 

The physiological aspects of Infatuation are powerful, but once the "addiction" has ended... more often than not, the WS can't see why the former affair partner was so attractive to them. The intellectual knowledge is there, of course, but the emotional reaction has dissipated, taking with it the sense of urgency the FWS once had.

 

It can leave them quite befuddled because without that sense of "emotional urgency", without the "rationalizations" that went with it... they often experience a rather shaky period after the affair, where they're uncertain about their previous judgment.

 

It's at this time the FWS will see the generous spirit of his formerly betrayed partner. He will see that she was a "lighthouse" at a time when he was lost in the fog. And he will be grateful for the preservation of his family, and happy to still be a part of it.

 

When all is said and done, should you recover your marriage and begin a new and better relationship with your husband.... you won't have the least desire to punish him. Unbelievable, I know, considering the circumstances of today.

 

But nevertheless, if you get there to 'The Good Place'... ALL of this bad stuff goes away.

[mum2three]

Thank u for the so thorough and thoughtful advice. I know I have to re-read it b/c I am not understanding the how-to-process of being emotionally available/physically even though he is still living at home. He is so closed off right now and only deals with me when he has to. He doesn't even allow me to put a hand on his waist when he is sleeping. I have been keeping daughter company at nite since then.

 

The daily rejection and isolation from him is wearing me down. At first, I was able to be peppy but after the X'mas gift outfit that he had OW purchase for my D, I am unable to get my spirit back. After I confronted him and told him how I felt disrespected I just saw he wrapped it up last nite. Can he be so damn thick-headed?! The least he could do was take it back to the store and pick out something himself. But I don't think he gives a crap about my feelings. But guess what? I'm the one who is home to dress her and I'll certainly not let her wear it.

 

So I think if I try to say anything to him now, it's not going to be pleasant. So I am avoiding him so to speak. I feel frozen with my own emotions now. I don't like the person that he has become and it sickens me to think I am going to cater to him in any fashion.

 

Is it worse if I kick him out? I just don't feel like wondering who is giving presents to or who he is relying on emotionally at work. I hate wondering what he does with his lag time between work. I hate seeing unrecognized numbers in his cell phone. I am just disenchanted by the whole thing.