What did I do wrong? :Merged threads:

[Gebidozo]

13 hours ago, Mresponse said:

its not like I’m going to the first guy who likes me..but my eagerness/ low worth at the moment does make me hold on to men that make me cry once in an official relationship

The bold part is the key to your problems.

[Sanch62]

41 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Yes, it's about you staying too long in toxic relationships.   If you had good boundaries and left early on, you would have been free to date others and find your Mr Right.

I feel that you're so desperate for a husband that you'll take any kind of rubbish instead of being single

Yes, exactly. You put up with being put down. You don’t recognize that true partner material will be on the same side instead of viewing you as an adversary. He will not bash your character or appearance and call you names to deflect issues. He will join you in discussing your feelings and problems to support the relationship getting a win instead of trying to squelch you and make you feel small or deficient just to win an argument or keep you too insecure to believe you can do better than him.

Healthy people know how to spot that manipulative stuff and run instead of catering to it. You accept the mistreatment and stay in the false belief that you can turn a bad match into a good one. But the message that sends to the men you choose is a green light for escalation of mistreatment until one of you has had enough.

All that time is wasted on someone who doesn’t deserve you while you could have met someone who is healthy partner material. But if you’re not healthy enough to walk away from mistreatment, then you don’t know how to screen out bad matches to join healthy men on higher ground.

A good therapist can help you with this. Yours sounds like someone who is coasting along to keep you as a client rather than someone trained and skilled at helping you get clarity about your value, your values, and how to avoid settling for less than you desire and deserve.

[basil67]

Has your therapist unpacked why you'd grieve for a toxic relationship?  Have they unpacked why you stay too long?   Have they explained that abusers typically behave nicely in front of friends and family?

I'm wondering if this is all new to you.  Or if your therapist has explained all of this, but you're here repeating unhealthy patterns in your own thinking.

[Mresponse]

11 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Has your therapist unpacked why you'd grieve for a toxic relationship?  Have they unpacked why you stay too long?   Have they explained that abusers typically behave nicely in front of friends and family?

I'm wondering if this is all new to you.  Or if your therapist has explained all of this, but you're here repeating unhealthy patterns in your own thinking.

Just by saying I need to heal myself/ that bf 4 was highly immature and toxic and that my childhood/ my first bf are part of why this has happened. When I did IOP that therapist told Me it’s because she thought he was a narcissist and had to be perceived as nice to everyone else to boost his ego. But this most recent blindsiding incident is shocking because he was always so kind and loving to me in the past. My therapist always approved of him.

[Mresponse]

45 minutes ago, Sanch62 said:

Yes, exactly. You put up with being put down. You don’t recognize that true partner material will be on the same side instead of viewing you as an adversary. He will not bash your character or appearance and call you names to deflect issues. He will join you in discussing your feelings and problems to support the relationship getting a win instead of trying to squelch you and make you feel small or deficient just to win an argument or keep you too insecure to believe you can do better than him.

Healthy people know how to spot that manipulative stuff and run instead of catering to it. You accept the mistreatment and stay in the false belief that you can turn a bad match into a good one. But the message that sends to the men you choose is a green light for escalation of mistreatment until one of you has had enough.

All that time is wasted on someone who doesn’t deserve you while you could have met someone who is healthy partner material. But if you’re not healthy enough to walk away from mistreatment, then you don’t know how to screen out bad matches to join healthy men on higher ground.

A good therapist can help you with this. Yours sounds like someone who is coasting along to keep you as a client rather than someone trained and skilled at helping you get clarity about your value, your values, and how to avoid settling for less than you desire and deserve.

I can’t imagine something that peaceful. I’ve never had what you’re describing. I wonder if that person even exists for me. I hear you about how much time I’ve wasted that could have been spent finding the right person. I’m not sure what to think about my therapist..certainly looking at other options 

I felt so ashamed by the session I had with her right after the blindsiding. I was crying and in some crazy grief but she didn’t seem to care/ just wanted me to spend thousands on additional care and I was just thinking..aren’t I paying you to help me?

[Sanch62]

51 minutes ago, Mresponse said:

Just by saying I need to heal myself/ that bf 4 was highly immature and toxic and that my childhood/ my first bf are part of why this has happened. When I did IOP that therapist told Me it’s because she thought he was a narcissist and had to be perceived as nice to everyone else to boost his ego. But this most recent blindsiding incident is shocking because he was always so kind and loving to me in the past. My therapist always approved of him.

Is the approved guy the one who used emotional blackmail to keep you on the phone and used threats of a breakup to keep you in line?

None of those guys were healthy partners.

[basil67]

47 minutes ago, Sanch62 said:

Is the approved guy the one who used emotional blackmail to keep you on the phone and used threats of a breakup to keep you in line?

Waiting on confirmation of this before I respond to this line of discussion further.

Edited June 13 by basil67

[basil67]

1 hour ago, Mresponse said:

I was crying and in some crazy grief but she didn’t seem to care/ just wanted me to spend thousands on additional care and I was just thinking..aren’t I paying you to help me?

I imagine that your psychologist feels that you need a psychiatrist in a residential setting.  It's quite normal for you to be referred to a more highly trained person if your issues are above the remit of the person you're seeing.

Kindly, it's very obvious from this end that your struggle is overwhelming you, and that you're not able to see things clearly.  It would not surprise me if your presentation has gotten to the point where it could be classified as a mental illness.   There's no shame in that!  A diagnosis is part of the pathway to finding a solution.

Edited June 13 by basil67

[ExpatInItaly]

3 hours ago, Mresponse said:

I felt so ashamed by the session I had with her right after the blindsiding. I was crying and in some crazy grief

With respect, your issues are likely above her paygrade. A therapist is not a pyschiatrist. 

Your level of despair and grief points at much deeper mental health problems. I would ask your general doctor for a referal, if you can. When therapy doesn't seem to be helping, you need to level up the care you receive. 

 

[Mresponse]

7 hours ago, Sanch62 said:

Is the approved guy the one who used emotional blackmail to keep you on the phone and used threats of a breakup to keep you in line?

None of those guys were healthy partners.

No not the same guy

[Mresponse]

I care very much about the people in my life. Real connection is rare for me..so of course I grieve this like a death. But yes, the grief does consume me. 
my personality is programmed for deep love and knowing that I may not ever have that in my life is depressing and I would think most would find my life abysmal as well. What are we here for if not to love and be loved?

thank you everyone for the conversation! I am taking it all in and understand that you guys think I have actual mental health issues.

[Mresponse]

It’s just super depressing to know I might be alone forever. Since we’re all social beings, I think it’s a basic human desire and need. 

[Gebidozo]

1 hour ago, Mresponse said:

my personality is programmed for deep love and knowing that I may not ever have that in my life is depressing and I would think most would find my life abysmal as well. What are we here for if not to love and be loved?

I pretty much disagree with everything you said here, but the main issue is that you find your life abysmal.

If you really think that having romantic disappointments or being single is “abysmal” then I think you need professional help. This is not a realistic worldview at all, and it’s exceptionally harmful.

[ExpatInItaly]

3 hours ago, Mresponse said:

Real connection is rare for me..so of course I grieve this like a death.

As someone who has actually grieved the sudden and tragic death of a boyfriend, I can tell you it's not even in the same ballpark. There is nothing "of course" about it. 

What that statement indicates to me is that you don't recognize your own blessings at all, nor are you that appreciative of what you do have. You have sunk so hard into the woe-is-me narrative that you fail to see opportunities that losing a loved one to a death actually rips away from us. You have the chance to make some real changes in you life,  remember the happier moments for what they were, and find a way to move on without having to carry with you the trauma of an actual death. What you are experiencing now is painful but I guarantee you is not as dire as you keep telling yourself it is. 

My life was forever changed the awful moment I found out what had happened to my then-boyfriend. That moment will never leave me.  I have done the incredibly hard work of navigating soul-crushing grief and despair as I processed his permanent departure from my life and this earth, without so much as one more goodbye or one last "I love you." I have found a way to live beside that trauma for years as it profoundly affected my ability to get close to anyone else - especially another intimate partner. The beautiful memories of him and our relationship are forever coloured by the horror of his sudden loss. Maybe it's time to stop feeling so sorry for yourself and look around. Many have had it much worse and come out the other side. I am one of them. There is no reason you should be any worse nor frame this like a death. It is not. 

I share this not to turn grief or feelings into a competition, but to remind you of this: If you have never grieved the actual sudden death of a partner, you don't know how lucky you have been in life.

Edited June 13 by ExpatInItaly

[Mresponse]

1 hour ago, ExpatInItaly said:

As someone who has actually grieved the sudden and tragic death of a boyfriend, I can tell you it's not even in the same ballpark. There is nothing "of course" about it. 

What that statement indicates to me is that you don't recognize your own blessings at all, nor are you that appreciative of what you do have. You have sunk so hard into the woe-is-me narrative that you fail to see opportunities that losing a loved one to a death actually rips away from us. You have the chance to make some real changes in you life,  remember the happier moments for what they were, and find a way to move on without having to carry with you the trauma of an actual death. What you are experiencing now is painful but I guarantee you is not as dire as you keep telling yourself it is. 

My life was forever changed the awful moment I found out what had happened to my then-boyfriend. That moment will never leave me.  I have done the incredibly hard work of navigating soul-crushing grief and despair as I processed his permanent departure from my life and this earth, without so much as one more goodbye or one last "I love you." I have found a way to live beside that trauma for years as it profoundly affected my ability to get close to anyone else - especially another intimate partner. The beautiful memories of him and our relationship are forever coloured by the horror of his sudden loss. Maybe it's time to stop feeling so sorry for yourself and look around. Many have had it much worse and come out the other side. I am one of them. There is no reason you should be any worse nor frame this like a death. It is not. 

I share this not to turn grief or feelings into a competition, but to remind you of this: If you have never grieved the actual sudden death of a partner, you don't know how lucky you have been in life.

I am so sorry for your loss and I can’t imagine how excruciating that was and continues to be for you. 
 

and yes life is never a grief competition and we cannot tell each other what we’re allowed to be sad about. I have already talked about the ways my life is blessed. A desire for love is not unnatural and it is painful when things end. I sought help to processes, move on and see what was mine to hold. I never said I have the worst case scenario. I’m very aware of the suffering others endure in life. I see that I triggered you with the word death- it was not my intention and I’m sorry. But this is not a pitty party. We all have to express our grief and pain. To shut down my own experience as not legitimate bc of your own perspective in life just kinda sucks and doesn’t lead me to any productive healing. Losing someone you wanted forever with is horrendous. And I hear you that there is a gradient of pain here when it comes to loss. 
 

and I think it’s interesting that you talk about your own valid struggles with connecting with others afterword. And yet, want to make sure that I know that my pain is not deserving enough to struggle myself right now because your loss is far superior than mine. 

Edited June 13 by Mresponse

[ExpatInItaly]

1 hour ago, Mresponse said:

To shut down my own experience as not legitimate

Nope, I did not say this. 

1 hour ago, Mresponse said:

And yet, want to make sure that I know that my pain is not deserving enough to struggle myself right now because your loss is far superior than mine. 

Nor this.

I do believe you are in dire need of a reality check and perspective shift, but are far too comfortable feeling sorry for yourself. Best of luck in your healing. 

[Mresponse]

2 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Nope, I did not say this. 

Nor this.

I do believe you are in dire need of a reality check and perspective shift, but are far too comfortable feeling sorry for yourself. Best of luck in your healing. 

I think we are misunderstanding eachother and I do apologize if I hurt you in some way. Always looking for understanding. I’m anti feeling sorry for myself- that’s what I was asking questions here to understand everything.

Edited June 13 by Mresponse

[basil67]

11 hours ago, Mresponse said:

It’s just super depressing to know I might be alone forever. 

This is not a normal or healthy train of though.   Yes, it's shitty that your relationship ended, but there's no logical reason to think you'd be alone forever.

12 hours ago, Mresponse said:

so of course I grieve this like a death

And this isn't a normal or healthy train of thought either.  Heartbreak is a tough thing to get through and it hurts terribly...and can take quite some time to get over.  But to compare it to the death of a partner tells me that your feelings in a more intense way than what is healthy.

And then there was the point where you were sobbing so hard about the breakup that your therapist (rightly) suggested that you need more help than they can give

Pretty much all of the feelings you've expressed during this thread are vastly out of proportion for the situation.  You need to see a psychiatrist, not a therapist.

[basil67]

I tried to edit my post above, but was too late 

I want to stress that I believe that you are grieving this like a death.  But it's not a death, and so your feelings are out of proportion to what happened.  

• I’m a bad partner
• I have had 4 serious relationships all lasting over a year and then I get broken up with (we have since established that this isn't true)
• Yet other women who are the same get wife’d up and never experience the pain that I do
• love feels like one false move and I will be left
• It’s just super depressing to know I might be alone forever

These are more of the many things you've written which are also far out of proportion to the situation.  Yes, I know you acutely feel this way, but can you recognise that they aren't healthy or a "normal" way of thinking?   

Kindly, step away from this thread and make an appointment primary care physician about your poor mental health and be sure to tell them about your BIG FEELINGS and catastrophizing.   At the very least, I think you could benefit from antidepressants.  I don't know if your doctor will address the issues themselves or refer you to a psychiatrist, but you certainly need more help than what a psychologist or untrained strangers on the internet can provide.  

[ExpatInItaly]

5 hours ago, basil67 said:

Kindly, step away from this thread and make an appointment primary care physician about your poor mental health and be sure to tell them about your BIG FEELINGS and catastrophizing

This. Grieving this like a death is an alarm bell that mental health needs urgent attention, beyond what a message board or therapist can offer. 

[Alpacalia]

You are not the problem here. And the story you're telling yourself... that you're "not enough" or "toxic" is actually a trauma response to someone who has shown you patterns of emotional instability.

What I'm seeing is that he did the exact same thing three years ago that he's doing now. Back then he shut down instead of communicating, made decisions without you, and wouldn't engage in actual problem-solving. Now he's doing it again...he shuts down communication, escalates a tiny miscommunication (you sending logistics instead of scheduling a call—come on, that's so minor) into a full breakup threat, then retracts it, spends a week reassuring you that he wants you, and then breaks up cold with no tears. That's not a normal response. That's emotional whiplash, and it's not your fault he did that.

The thing that really stands out to me is when he called you immature for taking space to regulate your emotions. That's actually emotionally healthy. A partner who's good for you doesn't shame you for needing a few hours alone to process feelings. He has unprocessed abandonment trauma from his father's death and his own mental health stuff, and here's the hard truth: that's his work to do, not yours to fix by being perfect enough. 

But what worries me most is what you're doing to yourself. You're reframing serious red flags as "workable flaws", a second DUI isn't just an area to work on, it's a choice that endangered people. His refusal to communicate isn't a different style, it's avoidant. And most importantly, you're taking on blame that isn't yours. You're telling yourself maybe you gave him abandonment issues, maybe you didn't validate him enough, maybe there's something fundamentally wrong with you. But that's not what happened. You apologized, you reassured him, you offered to move back and be there every day. He still left. And that's about his stuff, not your failure.

[basil67]

@Mresponse I'm so glad @Alpacalia wrote this.  I'd gotten confused about who was who, and took your word for it that this was a good guy.  No, he wasn't!   This was yet another toxic relationship which needed to end.

Every single relationship you've mentioned needed to end, and it should have been done by you a lot earlier than what actually happened

[Mresponse]

11 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

You are not the problem here. And the story you're telling yourself... that you're "not enough" or "toxic" is actually a trauma response to someone who has shown you patterns of emotional instability.

What I'm seeing is that he did the exact same thing three years ago that he's doing now. Back then he shut down instead of communicating, made decisions without you, and wouldn't engage in actual problem-solving. Now he's doing it again...he shuts down communication, escalates a tiny miscommunication (you sending logistics instead of scheduling a call—come on, that's so minor) into a full breakup threat, then retracts it, spends a week reassuring you that he wants you, and then breaks up cold with no tears. That's not a normal response. That's emotional whiplash, and it's not your fault he did that.

The thing that really stands out to me is when he called you immature for taking space to regulate your emotions. That's actually emotionally healthy. A partner who's good for you doesn't shame you for needing a few hours alone to process feelings. He has unprocessed abandonment trauma from his father's death and his own mental health stuff, and here's the hard truth: that's his work to do, not yours to fix by being perfect enough. 

But what worries me most is what you're doing to yourself. You're reframing serious red flags as "workable flaws", a second DUI isn't just an area to work on, it's a choice that endangered people. His refusal to communicate isn't a different style, it's avoidant. And most importantly, you're taking on blame that isn't yours. You're telling yourself maybe you gave him abandonment issues, maybe you didn't validate him enough, maybe there's something fundamentally wrong with you. But that's not what happened. You apologized, you reassured him, you offered to move back and be there every day. He still left. And that's about his stuff, not your failure.

Wow I never saw the correlation between the past and now. Thank you. It’s a relief to hear that you feel like it’s ok to take space/ I’m not to blame for his issues. I certainly could have handled the move better back in the day. I was going to take the job no matter what and didn’t consult him on it. I think what I need to work on is the amount of time I take to collect my thoughts. My mom even said she feels like she’s being “punished” if I retreat for a day to collect myself. 
after his first breakup threat there genuinely was about two days of silence for me except for 1 text a day saying “I’m not ignoring you I’m just collecting myself and I just don’t know what to say yet” I also expressed what hurt me in his delivery so I hope I didn’t twist his hurt into my hurt. I did not express that I would move back to his state until the very end. 
 

after reflecting for a few days I’ve made a list of what I can do better (because even if this is on him- I know I have my own flaws):

1. Compromise on amount of time needed to decompress after a disagreement. Communicate better about taking space and set a time limit 

2. Even if I feel comfortable and like everything is fine I need to do regular check ins with a partner to make sure they’re on the same page 

3. communicate works travel before leaving (even if we live in different states)

4. When a hurt is expressed- do not go directly into explaining why hurting him was an accident and just apologize 

5. I was going with the flow on this reconnection. I needed to be clear about my intentions 

6. be mindful about response time- not taking more than 4hrs to respond on a busy day

7. Integrate men into my life more. I usually play it safe and wait awhile to bring them to family/ friends

8. provide more positive affirmation instead of assuming we feel the same

thank you again for your analysis. It does make me feel a bit better and you revealed a new POV to me

 

[Mresponse]

**last point because I can’t edit

-work on my avoidant tendencies. I try to create a full life where I’m busy after work almost everyday. I always thought that made me a more grounded/ safe partner but I realize I need to step away from fear and integrate a partner in further (time wise)

[Alpacalia]

9 hours ago, Mresponse said:

Wow I never saw the correlation between the past and now. Thank you. It’s a relief to hear that you feel like it’s ok to take space/ I’m not to blame for his issues. I certainly could have handled the move better back in the day. I was going to take the job no matter what and didn’t consult him on it. I think what I need to work on is the amount of time I take to collect my thoughts. My mom even said she feels like she’s being “punished” if I retreat for a day to collect myself. 
after his first breakup threat there genuinely was about two days of silence for me except for 1 text a day saying “I’m not ignoring you I’m just collecting myself and I just don’t know what to say yet” I also expressed what hurt me in his delivery so I hope I didn’t twist his hurt into my hurt. I did not express that I would move back to his state until the very end. 
 

after reflecting for a few days I’ve made a list of what I can do better (because even if this is on him- I know I have my own flaws):

1. Compromise on amount of time needed to decompress after a disagreement. Communicate better about taking space and set a time limit 

2. Even if I feel comfortable and like everything is fine I need to do regular check ins with a partner to make sure they’re on the same page 

3. communicate works travel before leaving (even if we live in different states)

4. When a hurt is expressed- do not go directly into explaining why hurting him was an accident and just apologize 

5. I was going with the flow on this reconnection. I needed to be clear about my intentions 

6. be mindful about response time- not taking more than 4hrs to respond on a busy day

7. Integrate men into my life more. I usually play it safe and wait awhile to bring them to family/ friends

8. provide more positive affirmation instead of assuming we feel the same

thank you again for your analysis. It does make me feel a bit better and you revealed a new POV to me

 

The codependency is the foundation of all this: you live in each other's back pocket, he gets anxious if you don't text back within hours, you feel responsible for soothing his anxiety, you're willing to uproot your entire life for him. That's enmeshment.

Most importantly, you're constantly trying to be "good enough" to prevent abandonment. You're walking on eggshells, apologizing for things that aren't your fault, accommodating his needs at the expense of yours, taking blame for his choices, wondering what you did wrong. That's what toxic relationships do... they make you question your own reality and worth. The intermittent reinforcement keeps you hooked: he's wonderful one moment and coldly cruel the next, and your brain gets conditioned to seek his approval. The real damage is what it's doing to you, you're blaming yourself for his choices, wondering if you're toxic or not enough, willing to abandon your friendships and healthy coping mechanisms, afraid no one will ever love you. That's toxicity.

You knew three years ago something was off, and you were right. You have good instincts. The next time someone makes you feel like you need to be perfect to keep their love, or makes you feel small for your boundaries, or refuses to actually communicate... that's not a sign you need to try harder. That's a sign they're not the right person.