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Happiest women: no kids

aguy123

By aguy123
in General Relationship Discussion

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schlumpy Established Member

schlumpy

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My aunt and uncle once told us how they admired us for not having children. I'm not sure where that came from considering they had two of their own. It didn't matter, my wife replaced the kids we didn't have with four-footed furballs which have lots of similar restrictions.

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BettyDraper Established Member

BettyDraper

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Ew. The people you know sound vile.

 

They are just being honest about how having children has affected them.

 

Google "I regret having kids" and you will see that the "vile" sentiment is far from uncommon. It's just rarely expressed because parents are not permitted to admit that they don't enjoy raising children.

 

The point is that not every parent experiences joy when they decide to bring children into the world. It's myopic to assume that every parent enjoys having children as much as you do, just as it is shortsighted for the childfree to think that parents can never be happy.

 

Life is not black and white. There is a lot of grey.

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BettyDraper Established Member

BettyDraper

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My aunt and uncle once told us how they admired us for not having children. I'm not sure where that came from considering they had two of their own. It didn't matter, my wife replaced the kids we didn't have with four-footed furballs which have lots of similar restrictions.

 

We have a puppy. He's nearly 9 months old. He's very small at 5 pounds and he won't be getting any larger.

 

He's very smart and well behaved. We didn't have difficulty with crate training and potty training wasn't awful either. Due to his breed and stage of life, he is very affectionate and loves to be around my husband and I. Sometimes he doesn't even let me pee by myself. If I am using the computer, he climbs into my lap and tries to kiss me. He also likes to climb our chests until we cuddle him.

 

I love him more than I ever loved my cats. He has enriched my life in many ways. I feel such pride when we get stopped on walks because he's so cute. Kids mob him and we get stopped at least twice. Whenever he learns a command or conquers a fear, I feel like like jumping up and down with joy and excitement.

 

All of this may sound similar to raising a human but I don't think it's the same. Parents can't put their children in boxes and leave them for a few hours unless the parents want to go to prison. Children typically do not eat out bowls on the floor nor do they require leashes.

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BettyDraper Established Member

BettyDraper

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No I didn’t. I never once said that.

 

Please stop saying things that just aren’t true.

 

You actually heavily implied that childfree women cannot be as happy as mothers several times.

 

This is why more than one LS member has pointed it out.

If more than one person saw it, then we cannot all be imagining things so perhaps owning your viewpoints would make more sense.

 

People who think in absolutes will find it hard to gain credibility. It's also very lazy thinking to believe that your personal experience is the same for everyone. For example, I hate honeydew melon. Should I assume that everyone should hate that fruit just because I do? No because that would be stupid. :rolleyes:

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Poutrew Established Member

Poutrew

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the study said no kids AND no spouse

 

Yeah, they'll be happy and carefree now while they are young. No one will feel that way when they are on their death bed, with no one in the hospital room except the nurse who is waiting patiently for the last breath so they can jot down the time of death on the chart, then get home to their happy, loud, dysfunctional family... at the very least, the guys building the next generation of 'retirement' homes, for 'todays active independent singles' will be happy to expect lots of business...:lmao:

Poutrew Established Member

Poutrew

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Life is not black and white. There is a lot of grey.

 

Yep...at least 50 shades.:cool:

BettyDraper Established Member

BettyDraper

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Yeah, they'll be happy and carefree now while they are young. No one will feel that way when they are on their death bed, with no one in the hospital room except the nurse who is waiting patiently for the last breath so they can jot down the time of death on the chart, then get home to their happy, loud, dysfunctional family... at the very least, the guys building the next generation of 'retirement' homes, for 'todays active independent singles' will be happy to expect lots of business...:lmao:

 

Lifelong friendships exist. There are also extended family members other than children and spouses. I thought that was obvious.

 

Also, having children and a spouse is not a guarantee that one will not be alone on his deathbed. If you've ever visited a nursing home, you will see that many of the residents have children and grandchildren who never visit.

 

I actually worked in elder care and it was breathtaking to see how many adult children didn't care about their parents and saw them as nuisances.

 

Let's not forget that it's very selfish to get married and have children just to ensure elder care.

Of course, everyone knows that only single and childfree people are selfish and parents never have children for their own needs. :laugh:

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amaysngrace Established Member

amaysngrace

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You actually heavily implied that childfree women cannot be as happy as mothers several times.

 

This is why more than one LS member has pointed it out.

 

Well you’re the second, you and Leigh, so please show me where.

 

Thanks!

BloodRedRose Member

BloodRedRose

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Yeah, they'll be happy and carefree now while they are young. No one will feel that way when they are on their death bed, with no one in the hospital room except the nurse who is waiting patiently for the last breath so they can jot down the time of death on the chart, then get home to their happy, loud, dysfunctional family... at the very least, the guys building the next generation of 'retirement' homes, for 'todays active independent singles' will be happy to expect lots of business...:lmao:

 

Wow, you definitely said that with a glee, didn't you? If someone feels secure in their life choices, they don't feel the need to put down other people's choices or give them a gloomy prediction of their futures. So thank you very much, but we childfree women don't need this bs.

If I made my choices around the thought of my death bed I'd rather not live at all. There's no guarantee of anything in the future, not even a death bed. People who reach their senior years often die immediately due to cardiovascular diseases for example, that is one of the main death causes in the world. Some people lose their sanity or their memory and no amount of children will make their end days feel merrier. Others are abandoned by their children.

I don't live to prepare myself for death.

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Leigh 87 Established Member

Leigh 87

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And

Yeah, they'll be happy and carefree now while they are young. No one will feel that way when they are on their death bed, with no one in the hospital room except the nurse who is waiting patiently for the last breath so they can jot down the time of death on the chart, then get home to their happy, loud, dysfunctional family... a

Haaaaaaaha. That's a good one. This is actually not one of the things I even think about when it comes to my sadness over the possibility that I may not be able to have children. Because it's just not true in about of cases.

 

Most grown families I know just aren't all that close..they don't visit this elderly parent's. The siblings and neices and nephews aren't all hanging out together. Having a child to have warmth and comfort in old age wasn't even a second thought when it came to why I dearly want to experience parenthood......

Edited by a LoveShack.org Moderator
hotpotato Established Member

hotpotato

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Yeah, I read somewhere some time ago that single women live longer than married women and that married men live longer than single men. It didn't say anything about children.

 

I've actually had mothers tell me how lucky I am to not have children. I do have a husband though.

 

Someone posted a rebuttal in another thread, and the chart showed that people with kids were at best marginally happier than those who didn't. Children are a huge investment. I can understand why birth rates are steadily declining.

hotpotato Established Member

hotpotato

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Also, having children and a spouse is not a guarantee that one will not be alone on his deathbed. If you've ever visited a nursing home, you will see that many of the residents have children and grandchildren who never visit.

 

Truth. A spouse can up and leave at anytime for any reason and no reason at all. I volunteered at a nursing home once, and it was not for the faint at heart. I doubt that nursing home was filled with childless elders. I'd just about bet my life that my church members were seeing them much, much more than their own children.

 

I think everyone should have some kind of plan for getting old. Keep up your health as best as you can bc your loved ones may or may not be there for you.

Edited by a LoveShack.org Moderator
BettyDraper Established Member

BettyDraper

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.....Having children takes happiness and brings it to a whole other level...it’s called joy. There’s nothing in this world that compares but only a parent would know that. That’s why we refer to them as our pride and joy because they’re exactly that.

 

Here you made a ridiculous comment about only parents knowing joy because of their decision to reproduce. Parenting is not the only way to experience joy because there are other sources of elation and pride in life.

 

You also said that nothing compares to the happiness of having children. Again, this statement is laughable because everyone else on the planet knows that not every parent enjoys raising children. Many even regret it. I would strongly suggest that you do some research instead of being small minded enough to think that your experience is universal. I’m shocked that anyone could have such faulty logic. It doesn’t seem like you possess the wisdom which you claim all parents have.

 

Why, you could even look up threads on this very website to see how many parents complain about how their marriages changed for the worse after having children.

Edited by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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BC1980 Established Member

BC1980

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A lot of interesting stuff in this thread. Having children so you can have elder care in your later years is a dicey gamble at best. I've worked in healthcare for a while, so I've seen it all. Many elderly people have children that view them as nuisances or don't even live near them. Additionally, with women working outside the home now, they can no longer care for their elderly parents. That was the old model. There are always trade-offs in life. One of the trade-offs of women working outside the home is the increase in the institutionalization of children in daycares and the elderly in nursing homes.

 

A lot of people find out that their adult children are busy living their own lives. You will get a ride to doctor's appointments but still be lonely. There is a romanticized idea of living your last days of life surrounded by your loved ones. That just simply isn't true for many people, and I'm not convinced it makes dying any easier.

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thefooloftheyear Established Member

thefooloftheyear

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I have a mother battling cancer in her later 70s...We all do as much as we can for her, and I don't know what she would do without us, frankly...My guess is she would will herself to die, as there really would be not much to live for...Older people generally don't like being lonely(not that anyone does, but if you are young and healthy at least there are some things you can do to pass the time)…but having regular family visits and spoiling/doting on grandchildren makes life that much more palatable as we all age..

 

Are there POS kids that don't do anything for their elders? I am sure, but I don't know any...Most of the people my age have older parents that need attention and are active in their lives and care...This is standard stuff...

 

And that's the thing....No one really ever thinks that far ahead, I know I didn't when we decided to bring kid into this world...But it will happen..

 

At the end of the day, life is about choices...If you wind up with loving and considerate kids as you age and need their assistance, then that's the payback I guess for all the sweat and sacrifice you put in when you raised them...If you are lonely and don't have any caring offspring or family as you age, then I guess that's the tradeoff for having the independence and freedom that not having kids gave you when you were younger …

 

TFY

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Blip86 New Member

Blip86

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That is so sad - like saying "the happiest people are the lonely people".

 

Usually that's the biggest regret of people in the end of their life - not having family, no one left after them...

 

Women are extremely sensitive to the subject - it's quite possibly the most traumatic thing that a woman can have in her life - not to be able to experience her womanhood through pregnancy and childbirth... So rationalizing her 'choice' makes perfect sense.

 

Infertility is still a big stigma, which is why the 'statistics' are so skewed.

BettyDraper Established Member

BettyDraper

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Can we all please stop using anecdotal evidence as data?

 

The people we know cannot possibly represent a large enough sample size to draw conclusions from.

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littleblackheart Established Member

littleblackheart

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you could even look up threads on this very website to see how many parents complain about how their marriages changed for the worse after having children.

 

For all the parents who complain on LS (not a place where happy people abound...) because they happen to be in a bind, for all the parents who do struggle with bonding with their children (it happens for sure), for those who struggle because they are looking after disabled children, for those who struggle because they can't afford to look after their children properly, there are a lot of parents who are 'happy'.

 

It's very unfortunate that Dolan's work has turned into a tribal thing where people only defend their own 'group' (I have kids myself, I don't even know why I bother to try and see things from someone else's point of view when so few do it in return).

 

For those who don't know of Dolan (the guy who came up with the concept in the first place), his work is not about dividing people and making some out to be happier than others - it's about reclaiming your life choices as your own, not about complying to society's norms, whether single, married, with kids or without kids, and about accepting the life choices of others as being equally valid.

 

As he says

 

Whatever the reasons, the key message is that we need to become much more accepting of the myriad ways in which different people can be differently happy. In so doing, we could all become a little happier.

 

 

Who is invalidating the guyÂ’s body of work? :confused:

 

I see one can intentionally use some grossly false evidence just to perpetuate her views. Donald Trump much? :laugh::p

 

:rolleyes:

 

JuneL, you evidently take a huge amount of personal pride in 'finding out' Dolan misinterpreted a small part of his data set (that you haven't even read and/or understood anyway); unfortunately, in fixating on that relatively inconsequential error in the face of all his work, this has meant the fundamental idea behind it completely pass you by.

Partymix19 Member

Partymix19

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Can’t say that I know many parents that are very concerned with how happy they are day to day.

 

Most are concerned with the health, well being and happiness of their children.

 

Then again, I don’t think about happy on a daily basis - I think it is a selfish and immature concept.

littleblackheart Established Member

littleblackheart

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I don't know anyone who is concerned about their own happiness day to day, parent or not parent.

 

Then again, that's not what the thread, the article or the OP is about...

JuneL Established Member

JuneL

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Personal pride? :confused: What are you even talking about?? :confused: :confused:

 

I just don’t understand why people have to intentionally make use of some grossly false evidence to perpetuate their views....[] Can they not come up with better support?

 

For the record, if you read some of my previous posts, I’m arguing for the contributions to future generations if childless women (and men, for that matter), without making use of some “study” that has shown to be grossly flawed.

 

https://quillette.com/2019/06/10/happiness-and-academic-malpractice/

Edited by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Off-topic content analogies redacted
BC1980 Established Member

BC1980

Posted
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At the end of the day, life is about choices...If you wind up with loving and considerate kids as you age and need their assistance, then that's the payback I guess for all the sweat and sacrifice you put in when you raised them...If you are lonely and don't have any caring offspring or family as you age, then I guess that's the tradeoff for having the independence and freedom that not having kids gave you when you were younger …

 

TFY

 

Yeah, I pretty much agree. Life is a gamble, and we all bear out the consequences of the choices we make. Relationships are what life is about. They don't necessarily have to be parent-child relationships, but many people want that experience. I never saw myself married with kids. I don't know why, but I never saw that in my future when I was growing up.

 

I'm 38, so I've put the idea of having kids away. I grieved that a little, but I was never bothered by it to the degree many women are. I enjoy my independence and freedom. I enjoy traveling at the drop of a hat. Will I be lonely in my old age and die alone? Maybe. Maybe I will. But I'm okay with that. I've always thought that I would face death alone though. I've seen enough death in my line of work that I don't have romanticized ideas about how all of that happens. On another note, I'm glad that your mom is facing cancer with your support. That is a true blessing.

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Partymix19 Member

Partymix19

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In 2019, there is no reason why a person that wants kids can’t have them. Just like there is no reason why a person that doesn’t want kids has to have them as a daily part of their lives (guys may have to pay financial support if they didn’t wear a rubber)

JuneL Established Member

JuneL

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“you haven't even read and/or understood anyway); unfortunately, in fixating on that relatively inconsequential error”

 

As I have repeatedly explained, anyone who bothered to spend a little time would understand his error. For some reason, I personally know a lot of people in academia. Although this book is not an academic publication, some were quite disturbed by it.

 

His error unfortunately makes or breaks the main claim of his book that has caught the press attention (the mainstream press in your “bubble”, to use your own word).

 

But I see that you’re adamant about referring to this “study” :):):)

 

GOOD LUCK!

  • Like 1
littleblackheart Established Member

littleblackheart

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I just don’t understand why people have to intentionally make use of some grossly false evidence to perpetuate their views, much like what Trump has done with climate change (I actually understand why in his case). Can they not come up with better support?

 

I get what you are saying, JuneL, I really do. I do research too (not in his field, but not far off) and the lack of thorough checking is unnerving for me too, but this is LS, not a peer-review panel!

 

Yes, he should have theorised this particular part of his work rather than use unchecked data for the marriage part (not the single, child free part), but his theory (and the rest of his work) is not wrong. His overall theoretical concept is to make happiness a conscientious choice. []

 

The thread itself shows how right he is, in the sense that people are defending their own life choices and staying in their 'tribe' without really going beyond that.

Edited by a LoveShack.org Moderator
While the thread author can add an update and reopen discussion, this thread was last posted in over a month ago. Want to continue the conversation? Feel free to start a new thread instead!
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