Happiest women: no kids

[BettyDraper]

This is not even remotely close to what it feels like to long to be a mother and have that longing be unfulfilled. You surely are not equating the two.

 

No of course not. How could I compare completely different concepts?

For infertile women, I imagine that not having children of their own brings lifelong grief.

[Leigh 87]

No of course not. How could I compare completely different concepts?

For infertile women, I imagine that not having children of their own brings lifelong grief.

 

 

Yep.

 

Not to mention that childless women (not childfree by choice), face the constant worry that their partners who they truly love, may end up leaving them and getting to experience the joy of parenthood with someone else. While you were the one yearning to be a mum all along and miss out while the man never gave two hoots about having a kid yet got to have one.

 

Women like me are definitely not happier because we are forced to be childless..I am a happy person. I will be happy but will always have a void missing.

 

I would have been much happier with a child. Even if the child was disabled or troubled. A part of my heart and body feels like it's missing and always will.

 

Study is definitely not conducted properly... Of course people who don't have the deep yearning for children are "happy" with less stress than even most happy parents....

 

Of course they rate as happier; every day even the most happy parents spend every minute worrying to death about their child's well being. Because the joy and happiness derived from your own child is so epic and profound, the send did how much U have to lose is also terrifying for most parents.

 

So sure, of course the childfree high flying happy couples are less stressed and "happier on a daily basis" more so than most parents - cos childcare costs are ridiculous, maternity leave is a joke and the world makes being a parent stressful ON TOP of the immense daily fear about your child's wellbeing.. Add the daily fear and sick feeling about something happening to your child to the fact that even middle class families struggle financially to earn a decent lifestyle with kids -- and sure, of course happy child free couples who are well off will rate as "happier"

[littleblackheart]

But the winners in life who I have noticed are the happiest are not all parents.

 

You're backpedalling a little.

 

Still, your overall point, as the above shows, is that there is some sort of 'happiness' hierarchy on the parenthood scale between those who are and those who are not parents by choice (those are not parents through no choice of their own cannot be part of this study for very obvious reasons).

 

There is no such thing.

 

I am surrounded by childfree women in my life; some are happy with that particular choice, and some had it imposed on them by circumstances out of their control. All of them have a fulfilled life regardless because other aspects mitigate and balance things out.

 

This study isn't interesting because of its results imo - qualifying 'happiness' is impossible in itself for a start, and making it a 'competition' between childfree people and parents has no real societal value.

 

Why it's important is that it makes childfree, single women integral members of society as opposed to the social pariahs they used to be considered as.

 

It's a great societal evolution in and of itself, because having full agency over your lifestyle and being respected as such by society as a whole is a good thing.

 

Pitting each other as though one group is better than the other is a completely skewed, unhelpful premise. There are no winners or losers.

[amaysngrace]

These studies don't focus on childless women like me where they dearly wanted kids but didn't have them..

 

No, that’s why it’s a bogus study. They should also include women past the age of 45 and compare them then instead of only focusing on women of child-bearing age.

 

I agree that women in their 20s who don’t have children by choice have an easier life than a mom with toddlers does but calling them happier sounds shallow to me. Only a woman with a child could compare the two anyway, with children and without them, to get an honest assessment.

 

Having children takes happiness and brings it to a whole other level...it’s called joy. There’s nothing in this world that compares but only a parent would know that.

 

That’s why we refer to them as our pride and joy because they’re exactly that.

[Leigh 87]

No, that’s why it’s a bogus study. They should also include women past the age of 45 and compare them then instead of only focusing on women of child-bearing age......

 

But some women aren't made happier due to having the joy of a child. Some women truly feel a lot less joy after having children because they simply weren't created the same way as most mum's who relish that joy.. Some women are truly happier childfree..... What lights them up is simply totally different to some mother's. Therefore you can't really know if who they are and what makes their hearts tick, is any less happy than the way you feel.

 

I mean a happy person who follows their dreams of living childfree is likely every bit as content as a happy mother who wanted and needed a child. Who are you to say that you're a happier person than childfree women who truly wouldn't have loved being mum's ?

 

The only women you're likely happier than are women like me who know at the age of 32 that they are missing or on what would be the greatest joy of their lives. The women like me know they would have been loads happier with kids and yes are likely never going to be able to be as "happy" as you.... But posters like Lanabanana seem just as happy as you. Because if she felt strongly driven to have a child, she would. Against any reservations.

 

They are the women who simply don't have the innate and immense drive to be mum's and who are likely just as content with their lives as you or any other happy parent. They aren't missing out; they likely would have felt less happy with kids simply because you're built differently.

 

I know what joy is by the way. As a 32 year old who knows she can't have kids, I derive joy from working with the disabled, raising three large dogs and I know I'll feel a lot of joy when I travel overseas and volunteer in orphanages. That's still joy too ya know. Not all of us childless and childfree ladies have vapid, shallow joys compared to parents. It's a different joy sure, but helping other people and seeing that you're making the world a better place actually feels truly joyful. It isn't what I would have originally chosen, but it's still joy.

 

I don't believe even childless women have joyless lives. How silly.

Edited June 13, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[amaysngrace]

Only a person with children can know what I’m saying Leigh because we can compare the two.

 

Someone without children simply cannot because they only know one side.

[littleblackheart]

They sacrifice, they put off their own desires for what they want...

 

Not this parent. I'm not sacrificing my own desires at all, since my 'desire' was to have my children. I don't feel like a superhero / self-sacrificing, because my children bring me the deepest, purest happiness (I'm a single working mother with 99.5% of all responsibilities so it's not like I'm twiddling my thumbs either....).

 

That is just my personal experience, though - I respect those who, for their own reasons, have chosen not to have children and think it is great that they can afford that choice.

 

Wouldn't it be great if we all could have the luxury of making our own choices free of judgement?

[Leigh 87]

You're backpedalling a little.

 

Still, your overall point, as the above shows, is that there is some sort of 'happiness' hierarchy on the parenthood scale between those who are and those who are not parents by choice (those are not parents through no choice of their own cannot be part of this study for very obvious reasons).

 

 

I can only speak for myself and most Childless went I know who desperately wanted kids yet couldn't have any.

 

Trust me..we would be much happier with kids than we are without.

 

I could win lotto and have the most amazing life. But I would still be much happier poor and single and with a child, than I would with the best partner ever and best life circumstances yet childless.

 

We are lacking something. Something huge. It's not the same as not having money or not having the car U want or not being able to travel. Lacking a child when your heart identifies as a mother and it's the number one driving force of your existence--- is excruciating. It doesn't get better. U just learn to live with it.

 

Childfree women as no less happy than parents are because they aren't LACKING. They got the most important things in life that mattered the most to them.

 

I really doubt that most women like me are "happier" than those who were blessed enough to be parents. And I'm a beer happy person saying this ---and I have a great fiance, he has a fantastic stable job and we live extremely comfortably now. But... I would have been happier as a mum even if I was totally broke and without a partner at all.

 

U can't lump childfree and childless women onto the same study.

Edited June 13, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Leigh 87]

Only a person with children can know what I’m saying Leigh because we can compare the two.

 

Someone without children simply cannot because they only know one side.

 

 

Plenty of parents don't really get that much joy from parenting though.

 

I personally know loads of parents who admit they would have been happier without kids.

 

It's not for everyone. Plenty of people are actually happier childfree.

 

I mean it's a little weird of you to assume you're a happier person than a content childfree women who never had a maternal bone in her body and never had a pull to experience motherhood?

[littleblackheart]

U can't lump childfree and childless women onto the same study.

 

No one has. Not even this study.

[amaysngrace]

I personally know loads of parents who admit they would have been happier without kids.

 

Ew. The people you know sound vile.

[Leigh 87]

Ew. The people you know sound vile.

 

My friend who explained that she was a happier woman before her child is a wonderful person actually. The opposite of vile. Full of light and a superior friend and human. She loves her child more than life but was a happier person before her kid. She finds the higher level of love and joy don't actually make her "happier" at all.

 

Feeling a greater level of love doesn't necessarily make all parents magically happier than all non parents.

 

Kids ar not a magic ticket to superior happiness for all parents. They can utterly adore their kiddos while at the same time, not particularly enjoy the act of being a parent .....the love and joy of a child alone doesn't make all partners happier as people as a whole..

 

There are a tonne of open Facebook groups and online forums filled with parents who love their children more than life yet regret being parents. Being a parent is one thing. The love and joy however high,does not give all parents a happier life in general.

 

I personally only have one friend who was happier before her child.. and she is so far from vile. Lives her girl to the end of the earth too and is a fantastic mother. The rest of the people I know if aren't my friends but yes they have admitted to me they were happier people before kids-. And these people are excellent parents, and all admit to loving their kids more than any other person in the world.

 

Maybe you and certain women genuinely enjoy the whole parenting thing more than. Others ? You can love a child without LOVING being a mum.......

 

It is a little odd that you assume you're a happier person than every happy childfree woman in the whole world ?

Edited June 12, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
fixed quote

[amaysngrace]

Parents who say they were happier before they had children are toxic to their child.

[BloodRedRose]

Parents who say they were happier before they had children are toxic to their child.

 

Oh how dare they feel what they feel... Give me a break. This is why so many are suffering with how they feel and develop mental illness, because there are people telling them it's so wrong.

It's one thing being a bad parent and telling your children you regret having them, but completely different thing realising you aren't all as happy as a parent as you thought you'd be and having some confidential talks with other adults for support. You can still be a good parent and love your child and realise that it's way different than you expect or whatever other reason.

 

I was in a relationship where he wanted children. I didn't know what I wanted. I probably would have had them if not the circumstances that made us part ways. It took me years after that relationship ended to realise I want to be alone. So if I had children I would probably not as happy as I am now, but still do my best since it has already happened.

[Leigh 87]

Parents who say they were happier before they had children are toxic to their child.

 

I don't think you can really judge. You don't know my friend. She's one of the best mother's out there..

 

She doesn't have to enjoy life more just because the loves her child.

 

Parenting is not only about the joy and love lol ... The joy and love are sometimes mutually exclusive to actually ENJOYING being a parent .....

 

My friend is a wonderful mother in every way. The joy from her just alone isn't enough to make her love the act and lifestyle of being a mother though.

 

And what about all the parents who have depression?

 

What about the parents who just aren't very happy people in general ?

 

Some childfree women are truly happy people in general, as a whole.

 

It's bizarre to assume that an unhappy person with a child is automatically happier than childfree women who are actually happy people.

 

So you're basically alluding to the most miserable people in the world WITH kids, still being happier people than the most happy children couples ?

Edited June 12, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[amaysngrace]

Yes Leigh, a mom with depression is not a healthy person for her child to be around.

 

But depressed people aren’t happy in general so that’s kind of a weak argument on your part.

[amaysngrace]

This is why so many are suffering with how they feel and develop mental illness, because there are people telling them it's so wrong.

 

Just because a parent doesn’t vocalize their resentment towards their child directly doesn’t mean it doesn’t manifest and come out in non-verbal ways.

 

That’s what causes mental illness.

 

If a person is so prone to buy into what society thinks of them then I hate to break it to you but they’re suffering from some form of mental illness to begin with.

[greenlights0000]

I’m glad there are people that are happy with no kids or spouse. I hate it when people brag about their married life, 4 kids and a white Pickett fence. It must suck to be them, they look down on ppl who ppl who do not have kids no spouse.

[Leigh 87]

Yes Leigh, a mom with depression is not a healthy person for her child to be around.

 

But depressed people aren’t happy in general so that’s kind of a weak argument on your part.

Plenty of unhappy people have families though. I am sure childfree posters here like Elswyth and Lanabanana are Everett bit as happy as you are

 

Having kids by default doesn't mean you're feeling more happy than them on a daily basis. Let alone all the mother's who battle depression with children. Childfree women aren't happier and nor are mother's. Happy people at just happier..child or no child

Edited June 13, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[JuneL]

I can see both of their arguments. However, I don’t understand why some people have to impose their lives on others. Paradoxically, I personally know very self-centered mothers (who must think they are so selfless) who think everyone has to revolve around THEIR OWN KIDS. Like I said before, people sacrifice everyday to make the world a much better place for the future generations (Mother Teresa and Isaac Newton were two examples without children); the difference is that they don’t make a huge deal out of it.

[BloodRedRose]

Just because a parent doesn’t vocalize their resentment towards their child directly doesn’t mean it doesn’t manifest and come out in non-verbal ways.

 

That’s what causes mental illness.

 

If a person is so prone to buy into what society thinks of them then I hate to break it to you but they’re suffering from some form of mental illness to begin with.

 

Sometimes not even your closest ones can really know how you truly feel.

Two years ago my highschool classmate's husband commited suicide. They got together in 3rd (or 10th) grade in hs and she got pregnant right after graduation. Two more kids were born during those 9 years until his suicide. One day she posten on Fb asking people to share his photo as he went missing - didn't come back home from work. Some days later she posted he was found dead. I later read in an online news article (since I ofc didn't ask her for details - we haven't spoken since hs but had each other added on social medias) that he was found hanged and the official version was suicide. There were no signs of murder and the officials were certain of it. My classmate was posting non-stop about her disbelief and grieve, claiming he was a wonderful father and everything was normal until the posts stopped and she hasn't posted anything since.

So nobody knew how he truly felt. He was probably hiding mental illness. Maybe was not really happy after becoming a father at 18 and dealing with parenthood of three in his 20's - I can only speculate. But the fact remains - his family didn't know what he was going through.

 

So you can still be a loving person to your spouse and your children, but have issues of your own.

What do you suggest doing, if you don't feel happy as a parent? Push it deep down until one day it exploades? Or maybe search support either in certain groups or a therapist - talk it out and maybe find ways how to feel happy? It's not WRONG to feel what you feel.

 

Not sure what it has to do with society, I didn't mention it.

[littleblackheart]

The way I interpreted the article was a long-overdue positive spin on how single, childfree women can be happy too. Which is a very good thing.

 

Why this has to turn into a competition as to which group is better or worse, and which group is happier / more miserable / more smug / more selfish I don't know. We can accept the 'happiness' of some without denigrating that of others.

[JuneL]

I don’t understand why people still refer to this “study”, when it’s clear that there is an enormous error. Here’s the relevant paragraph from his wikipedia page:

 

“Dolan's 2019 book, Happy Ever After, contained provocative claims about the association between marriage and happiness, suggesting that married women were not actually happier than single women. In promoting the book, he said, “Married people are happier than other population subgroups, but only when their spouse is in the room when they’re asked how happy they are. When the spouse is not present: f***ing miserable.” However, other social scientists quickly pointed out that this conclusion was based on a misunderstanding of the term “spouse present” in the American Time Use Survey. Dolan subsequently retracted his erroneous statement and pledged to correct his book.[14]However, in the days that followed Dolan repeated the now discredited claim that single women reported being happier than married women to various media outlets, including in an interview with Good Morning America.”

[littleblackheart]

The article doesn't matter, JuneL; the shift in societal expectations does.

[Leigh 87]

The way I interpreted the article was a long-overdue positive spin on how single, childfree women can be happy too. Which is a very good thing.

 

Why this has to turn into a competition as to which group is better or worse, and which group is happier / more miserable / more smug / more selfish I don't know. We can accept the 'happiness' of some without denigrating that of others.

 

I don't like any article or study that assets to be able to quantify happiness.

 

Nor do I appreciate parents who feel sorry for anyone who has a happy life they doesn't include children.

 

It's about time people realised that happiness can be reached irrespective of your family status..kids or no kids. Partner or no partner..

 

Although I do believe that connection and relationships are key to wellbeing .... I don't like how either group in the parenting versus non parents , purports to be happier than the other group...

 

True joy and happiness can be deprived in different ways. Many parents find their highest joy via their kids. And they live their lives for their children first and foremost, and derive their happiness from their children mostly..

 

Where as non parents can be just as happy but via different things .

 

No one is automatically happier than anyone else based on their children/childless status alone.