Els Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 Well maybe you shouldn't have sex with a woman anymore. You wouldn't want to accidentally impregnate her and contribute to her lifelong unhappiness, would you? If the OP is smart, he'll have a vasectomy, given his aversion to children. Link to post Share on other sites
Author aguy123 Posted June 8, 2019 Author Share Posted June 8, 2019 Even married couples report a drop in happiness once they have kids. I don't think any sane person has kids because they think "they'll make them happy", they just have kids because they feel the desire to have kids. And equally so plenty of women don't feel any desire to have kids. Aren't you the guy who made a thread insisting that every woman wants kids, and ignoring the many women who posted saying they don't? But hey, at least you found a survey that you're not ignoring now. not sure WHY you think I was IGNORING my thread..... but, we see what we want, I guess. This stuff takes the fun out of free speech and individuality. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BloodRedRose Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 I have decided to remain childless and very happy about my decision (32 y o female). Not having anyone to depend on me and a world of possibilities - that's my life. My boyfriend doesn't want to have children either. I don't feel lonely no matter how alone I am. Happy as single, happy in a relationship, it doesn't matter much (but of course it's nicer to have someone to have an emotional connection with). It's scary to think about the relationship I was in my early 20's. We were about to get married and he wanted children as soon as possible. I wasn't fully aware of my aversion to children and probably would have given him what he wanted, because I was blindly in love. I'm thankful that he cheated and given me a reason to break it up and go find myself. And what I found was totally not what I would had had. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 This stuff takes the fun out of free speech and individuality. Individuality makes a study like this meaningless to any one person, all that matters to them are their own preferences. We make choices based on what works for us, not some database... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
JuneL Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Apparently there’s a huge error in this study... https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/future-perfect/2019/6/4/18650969/married-women-miserable-fake-paul-dolan-happiness “The problem? That finding is the result of a grievous misunderstanding on Dolan’s part of how the American Time Use Survey works. The people conducting the survey didn’t ask married people how happy they were, shoo their spouses out of the room, and then ask again. Dolan had misinterpreted one of the categories in the survey, “spouse absent,” which refers to married people whose partner is no longer living in their household, as meaning the spouse stepped out of the room.” 1 Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 (edited) My mother had several sisters...All married with kids except one...The one that stayed single and never married and no kids was easily the most miserable of all of them by a very wide margin, and sadly, died as a lonely old soul...This despite all of the other sisters having had problematic marriages... I cant see how any conclusions can be drawn from such a study....I didn't look at all the details, but it seems like asking a bunch of people that never had vanilla ice cream saying vanilla ice cream sucks is hardly any way to make a point... TFY Edited June 9, 2019 by thefooloftheyear 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 The one that stayed single and never married and no kids was easily the most miserable of all of them by a very wide margin, and sadly, died as a lonely old soul... Yes, but her "miserableness" may be the reason she never married or had kids in the first place... Or had she had kids she may have been even MORE miserable... ..and plenty people with kids still die as lonely old souls... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author aguy123 Posted June 9, 2019 Author Share Posted June 9, 2019 That said (the post above about the falseness), I think it is easily obvious who they are claiming are happier, ARE easily happier. When you don't have all that grown up burden of responsibilities, it is EASY to be care free and happiest. Doing the adult thing means some compromises on happiness, and trading parts of ULTRA-HAPPY in for the sanity of comfort and stability. Is stability "happiness" and as good as "carefree ultra happy"? I guess that is up to individuals. Still, people have kids because it was 100% what we were designed to do - how many "Couples" EVER become a couple and NEVER have sex? - and there is NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT EVER, but it is a baseline commonality, funding economy, population, housing etc etc, but there are child free choices now days also. IF one chooses to think it through FIRST, deciding what their happiness consists of. Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Still, people have kids because it was 100% what we were designed to do - how many "Couples" EVER become a couple and NEVER have sex? - and there is NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT EVER, but it is a baseline commonality, funding economy, population, housing etc etc, but there are child free choices now days also. IF one chooses to think it through FIRST, deciding what their happiness consists of. But here's the thing that throws all that off.. I can say..."I am very happy that I never had a stroke"....And that's a statement that's 100% true for me or anyone else Then I can also say..."I am happiest living in the USA, instead of anywhere else".....Well....that really can't be quantified if all I have ever done is live here..It may very well be true, but unless I have experience the alternative, there is no way to make that claim with 100% certainty....I don't care what anyone says... I don't want to be judgemental, but the reality is that a lot of these "studies" are done because it makes people that don't have "whatever" feel better about themselves, rather than being stoked in real facts and hard evidence.. TFY 1 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 ^ Not true. They simply take samples of happiness on both groups and compare them. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
snowcones Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 When in a relationship (or not) your perception becomes your reality. So if you perceive yourself to be happy, then you will say you're happy. That's not always the reality esp to others looking on, but that doesn't matter. It only matters what the subject thinks about their situation. I think this comes into play when they talked to single women in that study. I think that women are very good at voicing their concerns and complaints when it comes to relationships, so when those married women in the study were asked, they probably didn't hesitate to fill someone's ear up. Oh, let me tell you everything that's wrong and how I feel, but I bet you if you asked those same women if they wanted to divorce, they would start backpeddling. That's a whole different story. Sometimes men act like that too, but in general they seem better able to coast along with the status quo. So who is happiest? It's really hard to say. I won't believe no study like this. In my own case, I was happy in some ways when I was married and unhappy in other ways, and now that I'm single, I am happy in some ways and unhappy in others. It does me no good to walk around talking about how happy and complete I am being single, because that type of attitude can put off good men. It also does me no good to walking around acting desperate and lonely, because then you attract dreggs who think you have no standards. Link to post Share on other sites
JuneL Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Did anyone see my previous post that there’s a huge error in the claimed study? I think people should respect the fact that not everyone has the same preferences. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 My mother had several sisters...All married with kids except one...The one that stayed single and never married and no kids was easily the most miserable of all of them by a very wide margin, and sadly, died as a lonely old soul...This despite all of the other sisters having had problematic marriages... TFY Interesting because my grandmother had 4 sisters and all of them had kids except one. They all died in their 60s. My grand aunt without kids is still living at 91. She's had a very happy life and still in good shape. Link to post Share on other sites
Author aguy123 Posted June 9, 2019 Author Share Posted June 9, 2019 Did anyone see my previous post that there’s a huge error in the claimed study? I think people should respect the fact that not everyone has the same preferences. yes, i saw and replied Link to post Share on other sites
guest569 Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Apparently there’s a huge error in this study... https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/future-perfect/2019/6/4/18650969/married-women-miserable-fake-paul-dolan-happiness “The problem? That finding is the result of a grievous misunderstanding on Dolan’s part of how the American Time Use Survey works. The people conducting the survey didn’t ask married people how happy they were, shoo their spouses out of the room, and then ask again. Dolan had misinterpreted one of the categories in the survey, “spouse absent,” which refers to married people whose partner is no longer living in their household, as meaning the spouse stepped out of the room.” That's really embarrassing. This guy is a professor and should know better. I would go for a proper peer reviewed article, and even then, take it with a grain of salt. All these men telling us women what makes us happy. If we say we are happy, we are lying. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
some_username1 Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Did this study do a breakdown on the rates of psychiatric drug use (for depression, anxiety, etc.) among these various groups of women? I've seen this claim floating around all over the internet, but I've yet to see any hard data that comes close to supporting it. Did they control for ANYTHING in this study? This reeks of social engineering. Hmm...possibly. A core pillar of modern day feminism seems to be the emancipation of women from as much responsibility as possible so I can certainly believe that there is a lot of vested interest in promoting a study like this. Looking at this another way, could you imagine a study that found that childless women tend to die alone and miserable would be promoted with similar fanfare? I personally would think that that sort of message would be buried alive under a mountain of feel good cat memes. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 "Emancipation of women from as much responsibility as possible" What are you talking about? Because I'm seeing a whole generation of young women who are absolutely committed to their careers and study - and this involves a whole lot of responsibility. A life without responsibility requires a women to be financially independent. The only way to be financially independent and without responsibility would be to be an heiress. Not too many of those around....and I don't see being an heiress as a goal of feminism. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 They simply take samples of happiness on both groups and compare them. By weight? Square footage? Pretty easy concept to poke holes in... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
Kitty Tantrum Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 I'm pretty sure they can swab for that these days. It's all very scientific. Link to post Share on other sites
some_username1 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 (edited) "Emancipation of women from as much responsibility as possible" What are you talking about? Because I'm seeing a whole generation of young women who are absolutely committed to their careers and study - and this involves a whole lot of responsibility. A life without responsibility requires a women to be financially independent. The only way to be financially independent and without responsibility would be to be an heiress. Not too many of those around....and I don't see being an heiress as a goal of feminism. It’s kind of difficult to explain without it blowing up into a political debate that is probably the subject of another thread but it seems to me that in tearing down the walls that limited women’s role in society to being a 50’s housewife we have now gone out the other side in this gender-role-less society and as a consequence female maturity is under attack and women are encouraged never to grow up and be a responsible adult any more. The effect of all this (as I’ve said in other threads) is that I’ve noticed a real decline in female maturity and lifestyle choice in the last decade, sure they have decent careers some of them but they seem to be getting more infantile in their behaviour in the their 30’s particularly the childless ones. They are the new Peter Pans and this latest message that not having kids is brilliant is just more feel good stuff so they never have to grow up and can act like kids living hedonistic lives based around alcohol, drugs and casual sex long into their 40’s and 50’s It’s not a good thing for society imo, everyone has to grow up and get their crap together at some point. Edited June 11, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator language Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 (edited) I don't see how this is a man vs woman thing. Would you say that all the 40 and 50-yo unmarried men who enjoy casual sex and "acting like kids living hedonistic lives" should all "grow up and get their crap together" and just marry and have kids even though they would make a piss-poor husband and father? I mean, y'know, since it's so "bad for society" that they're doing that. Or how about we just live and let live, mm? The only thing that happens if you try to force a bunch of different-shaped pegs into round holes is a lot of broken pegs. Edited June 11, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator quote removed 4 Link to post Share on other sites
some_username1 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 (edited) It isn't a gender-specific problem, the difference is that men are not encouraged to live that way and are not given a pat on the back for it. Men get referred to as "Peter Pan" (which isn't a compliment!) and women look at them as if they have commitment issues. By contrast women get told "you go grrrl" etc as they are seen to be breaking free of society's expectations etc. This is a subject close to my heart as I guess I am a Peter Pan myself: 39, never married, no kids, lived a fairly hedonistic lifestyle myself up to a couple of years ago and have been on many dates with women who have given me a real lesson in terms of their capacity for debauchery and predilection for taking risks both with their personal safety and their sexual health. However even I am realising that I need to start acting my age. It really does come to something when someone like me notices how immature and irresponsible everyone else is! Ultimately, yes, people should do what is right for them - but at the same time I don't think it reflects well on you if you can't start taking your life seriously by the time you reach your late 30's. Not having kids means you can put off taking life seriously forever. If you don't want to have kids because you don't have the maternal instinct or don't have the resources then I think that's great and a very mature and responsible attitude. However I think if you are going to listen to the message of a study like this and feminism in general and you decide not to have kids as some kid of "**** you" to gender norms or as some way of defying age/maturity then imo you are getting it badly wrong. It could very well turn out to be harmful to society to have a dystopian future in 20 years time full of washed up women who have shunned responsibility of any kind thinking that the path to happiness is treating life like you think you are still 20 and it's all one long never-ending Vegas pool party. Edited June 11, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator quote removed 1 Link to post Share on other sites
littleblackheart Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 So this thread on 'happiness' is turning out to be a real mood booster indeed... 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 (edited) It isn't a gender-specific problem, the difference is that men are not encouraged to live that way and are not given a pat on the back for it. Men get referred to as "Peter Pan" (which isn't a compliment!) and women look at them as if they have commitment issues. By contrast women get told "you go grrrl" etc as they are seen to be breaking free of society's expectations etc...... How do other people's choices affect you at all if you aren't financing their lifestyle? In what way does it affect your life if Bob from accounting or your neighbor Sally decides not to marry and/or have children? Do you think all men should be required to marry, even if that individual is not suited for monogamy? Obviously, nobody should be making life decisions based on a flawed study about "happiness", but that's not really the extent of what you're saying, is it? FTR, while we're on the topic of dystopian futures and studies, did anyone else here know that having fewer children is apparently the most effective way any individual can affect climate change, and therefore reduce the likelihood of all of us going extinct in the near future? I didn't know this either until recently, interesting that recommendations tend to skim over it. http://Https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/aa7541/meta Edited June 11, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator 3 Link to post Share on other sites
some_username1 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 (edited) Because I’m with Jordan Peterson when he argues that a lack of responsibility is not good for society. Particularly in men but also in women too. It doesn’t even have to be about bringing up kids, just having some purpose rather than living in a perennial state of teenager-dom. As a somewhat timely case in point, I have just heard that the girl I am dating’s former step-daughter who is in the middle of her casual sex carousel phase has just discovered that she is pregnant! The father is her on-off FWB she is refusing to have a termination so will be bringing into the world an accidental child who she is going to struggle to take care of given her place in life. Ironically her former step-mum is saying exactly what I have just said- that the responsibility will do her good and get her back on the straight and narrow but it’s also an illustration of what happens when young adults embrace hedonism with little responsibility to themselves or the world around them: “Oops” pregnancies and another mouth to feed that might well grow up on the poverty line. Why is it so hard for these idiots to use protection? Sheesh. Edited June 11, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator quote removed Link to post Share on other sites
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