So many clichés, so obvious... how come I cant stop it?

[darkbloom]

I dated my MM before he got married and he didn’t call it off. I was also at the wedding. For the love of god, don’t go. Get snowed in somewhere or get sick but do not put yourself through it.

 

He looked at me before she started walking down the aisle and he had tears in his eyes. You can’t even imagine how that feels. The vows are not even something you can stomach.

 

 

 

I think you need to let her go before you end up going through this.

[ManMar]

Imagine if her H founds out she cheated during the whole engagement. (

 

Oh dear, I cannot even start thinking what may happen to that poor guy if he finds out... it is just unconceivable. It would taint his life.

 

For a long time I didnot care about the guy, they were living together and everything, but in my mind it that was not my problem. Now that he is committing for a future with her I see it totally different, I do feel responsible.

 

Actually it is somehow striking that she never mentions that she is risking ruining the live of her BF... she never talks down on him, but it is always about she not being in love with him, not about what we are doing to him.

[ManMar]

Do you think she is clinging to you harder because she doesn’t want to marry her fiancé? That sounds like a nightmare—feeling like you have no choice but to marry someone you don’t want to marry.

 

Don’t go to the wedding—it will be torture for you both. Have a sudden stomach or intestinal thing hit you at the last minute. I’m sure you won’t have to do much faking; you’re going to feel pretty sick that day regardless.

 

I think she knows that I am not an alternative, and she is going ahead with the wedding with the idea that at some point everything between us will be history and maybe her marriage works.

 

So I think she is kind of thinking about the marriage with a practical angle. They have been together for 5 years now so she knows him well. The guys loves her, is a good person, he is smart, he has a nice career lined up... she does not love him, but everything else is there.

 

She does not want me to go to the wedding. She has not asked me not to go, but she clearly wants me away. As I said in other posts, I am not sure what I am going to do... maybe it is shock therapy, facing reality, seeing her in her other life, with her family and friends and those of his BF.

 

I feel sick about this fxxxing wedding, but I have no right to complain, obviously, this is the smallest consequence of this wrong doing.

 

Cancelling my attendance is going to be hard though. This OW is a junior partner in my company... my wife is invited! (btw, I never mentioned, but my wife is suspicious this OW and I may have had some sort of flirting in the past).

 

What a mess.

[ManMar]

I dated my MM before he got married and he didn’t call it off. I was also at the wedding. For the love of god, don’t go. Get snowed in somewhere or get sick but do not put yourself through it.

 

He looked at me before she started walking down the aisle and he had tears in his eyes. You can’t even imagine how that feels. The vows are not even something you can stomach.

 

I think you need to let her go before you end up going through this.

 

OMG, what a situation. Sorry you went through something similar. I never imagined I could be part of this cheap romantic movie script. Maybe the pain is what I need to really wake up.

[Amethyst68]

Actually it is somehow striking that she never mentions that she is risking ruining the live of her BF... she never talks down on him, but it is always about she not being in love with him, not about what we are doing to him.

 

 

What about you? How about the conversations about your wife? How do you personally talk about her with the OW? Do you even mention the impact of the affair and I don't mean the generic we're doing a bad thing?

[ManMar]

What about you? How about the conversations about your wife? How do you personally talk about her with the OW? Do you even mention the impact of the affair and I don't mean the generic we're doing a bad thing?

 

Actually yes. All of that.

[NotADayGoesBy]

If your wife is already suspicious then yeah—getting out of going to the wedding is not going to work. Buckle up for a rough day.

 

I don’t see you guys ending it anytime soon. I think the whole operatic/cinematic effect of the impending doom of the wedding is only adding fuel to the addiction.

 

It’s a shame she’s not brave enough to call off the wedding for her own reasons (and to do what’s right in the long run for poor fiancé) that have nothing to do with your relationship. On paper it sounds like a good plan to marry a great guy she doesn’t love, but if she doesn’t love him it’s not going to last.

[ManMar]

 

I don’t see you guys ending it anytime soon. I think the whole operatic/cinematic effect of the impending doom of the wedding is only adding fuel to the addiction.

 

I see your point, but there is no shotgun pointing at her. She is marrying out of free will.

 

All in all, she thinks marrying this guy makes sense, bc that is what she is doing. The ILY that counts is the one she is going to be saying that day in front of hundreds of people, not those texted to me.

 

At the same time, I am allowing it to happen and I could do many things, I also act out of free will. That also says something on my priorities.

 

It’s a shame she’s not brave enough to call off the wedding for her own reasons (and to do what’s right in the long run for poor fiancé) that have nothing to do with your relationship. On paper it sounds like a good plan to marry a great guy she doesn’t love, but if she doesn’t love him it’s not going to last.

 

I wonder how many couples marry really being in love. Maybe I have become cynical with age, but I tend to think that people marry for a number of reasons and love is just one of them.

[ManMar]

Update --

 

Summary: We still continue with the A.

 

This surreal situation still dragging on.

 

She is full steam organizing her wedding and at the same time in this A with me.

 

I am full steam pretending we are going to end this, without actually doing it for real. Full of intentions, little real action.

 

Latest developments--

 

She barely sees her BF since he was promoted and transferred to a different city. She seems happy with the situation. I also live in different city. So she keeps two LDRs, seeing each guy every cpl of weeks.

 

When I am away, we text every day. Lately, a lot of it has been on wtf do we do; always circling around the need for breaking up, followed with ILYs and I need to see you.

 

She is under a lot of pressure with the wedding and the contradiction she finds herself in. However, I have noticed that now she is rationalizing what we are doing, with comments like "I believe that most long term relationships have a third person in the picture at some point". She is also making comments on us post-wedding, like going together to conferences in exotic places after the summer. Seems to me her base case is to marry this guy and continue with me. She is digesting the idea.

 

I am myself also jumping from reality to fantasyland. When I am in the real world, I am sick of this situation, from many perspectives. This is most of the time. However, I still love this girl enough to feed random imaginary thoughts and keep texting and seeing her to have love/sex encounters.

 

I don’t get her relationship with her BF. She tells me she can’t stop the wedding, but I always reply that she perfectly could, if she was really convinced not to marry him. Actions speak louder. Actions are that she is very happy with him away, that I can see, but at the same time she is marrying him in two months. She agrees and tells me that she has taken that decision, that she would stop it if she had a chance but otherwise she is going to stick to the plan.

 

At some point last week she mentioned that she was relieved she had her period after some delay. She told me that the baby would have been mine, and I said, how do you know? we would need a DNA test, she came back with "because I have not slept with my BF for a long time", I was like, what?? we didn’t discussed their sexual life, but she mentioned that they don’t feel passion for each other. I thought, wtf, a young couple, about to get married, not passionate? I don’t buy it. What is this message all about?

 

I have been trying to understand what is it that makes us want to be together. I asked her on what needs of hers do I satisfy that she is missing otherwise, she is unable to articulate an answer beyond general concepts of love. I think love is part of it, but it is also that she is bored with her BF and this situation is adrenaline, as simple as that.

 

I'm unhappy. With my behavior and with my current life. I am going to have a really bad time when she gets married and most importantly, I have not been able to break up yet. I am terrified of the idea of my wife and kid being hurt by this situation. Also, I didn’t care in the past, but now I am also feeling responsible of what could happen to her BF, discovering something like this would destroy him.

 

I will keep posting. This helps me recognize the absurdity of my actions.

Edited March 8, 2019 by ManMar

[FMW]

From my own experience, I don't think you'll stop the affair until you are forced, you won't make that choice yourself.

 

Most likely it will be that your OW will suddenly go cold and end it, either directly or by just disappearing on you. That probably seems inconceivable to you with her constant ILYs, but it happens.

 

She seems compelled to get married, no matter what. There is something about that option that is more important to her than being with you, if the choice has to be made. She may not even know what that reason is, but something strong is making her hold on to her bf and move full force ahead to marriage with him. Something that you don't provide.

 

I'm sorry if you addressed this and I missed it, but have you ever discussed both of you ending your other relationships and committing to each other? Do either of you have interest in that? My impression was that you both want to keep both relationships.

[mark clemson]

@Findingmyway - I think the big piece is that he's married and so she can't have him truly.

 

 

 

I have been trying to understand what is it that makes us want to be together. I asked her on what needs of hers do I satisfy that she is missing otherwise, she is unable to articulate an answer beyond general concepts of love. I think love is part of it, but it is also that she is bored with her BF and this situation is adrenaline, as simple as that.

 

 

Limerence and/or excitement junkie sex, and the romance of travel with an attractive sex partner would be my guess.

 

I think it's very unfortunate you weren't able to stick to your original plans to end the affair. At some point the feelings should start to fade and one or both of you will be able to exit. I guess the hope is that you don't blow up each others' personal lives prior to that point.

 

My advice would be to keep trying to exit the affair, preferably before the marriage if you can't convince her to tell the BF and end their relationship honorably. I don't think anyone ever wants to find out their spouse cheated on them around the time of their marriage.

[Orokotikki]

Well conductor, whats the next stop for this trainwreck?

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

Oh yeah and regarding:

I have been trying to understand what is it that makes us want to be together.

 

Yeah, its called dopamine. Or was it dopeandmean? dunno my spellcheck doesn't work.

[darkbloom]

This train is going to crash and burn. Why in the world are you still on it?

[assertives]

I seriously feel very bad for the bf. The marriage he is about to enter is probably going to be the biggest lie of his life. Unlike your wife, at least you were sure you loved her when you married her. He is marrying someone who is sleeping with another man right up to probably the night before his marriage. I seriously cannot imagine how he's going to recover from this (if ever) not if but when he finds out.

Edited March 14, 2019 by assertives

[ManMar]

hello everybody, an update

 

Yes, we continue with the A

 

We are seeing each other every couple of weeks, last time last week.

 

When we are together, it is like a little island in the middle of the storm. We dont care about anything else. We I leave, it takes me less than 24h to miss her like crazy and start feeling anxiety.

 

I feel anxiety for a number of reasons, I am really jealous for the first time of my life. It is a really bitter state of mind. I feel I am obsessed with her. Not sure why. She is definitely getting married in early May, such a contradiction to what we feel and do when we are together, that my mind is in a total mess. I was much better a few weeks ago, but I feel I'm now back to our deepest feelings for each other.

 

She is living the same contradiction. Not sure how she is able to reconcile all this on her mind. From what I gather, she sometimes feels that our affair will die a natural death, exhaustion from a long unresolved situation; other times she fantasizes about a future together... when she is getting married at the same time!

 

In the meanwhile the wedding day is approaching and I dont have the faintest idea of how to handle the ceremony and the party after that. I really have to go, she is a junior partner in my business. My wife is also going. My wife does not like her, she thinks we had some attraction at some point, she is not aware of how deeply in love I am with this girl.

 

After that, they leave for a three-week honeymoon. The idea makes me sick.

 

I think I have the worst part on this, as at the end of the day she is building a new life. I think she is genuine when she is with me, but she is much better in having a wall in her brain to separate this double life. Her day-to-day is full with all the little things of the wedding organization, mine revolves around her.

 

So I find myself with a mix of anxiety and jealousy, trapped in a situation that is going to continue hurting. I am a shadow of the man I used to be.

 

We have discussed all this in detail. We know that the only way to really break up is for her to leave her job, and engage in a full NC, forever. However, neither of us seems determined to take that step.

 

I am lost now. I need some time to gather air and perspective

 

(btw, I've been a couple of times to see a therapist, he tells me that it is me who needs to stop this, that most likely she is going to go with the flow as she is getting the best of both worlds and is much better than me in handling the sit in her mind. The opinion of the therapist is that this situation requires action, surgery, a full break out, not therapy and talking to him... unless we really want to be together, in that case we should also act and not play anymore)

 

Finally, my mind is so messed up that I even had some thoughts on sending her BF a text giving him a heads up that something is going on, with no details. So that I sparkle a reaction and she has to make a choice. But I quickly disregarded doing something like that for a number of reasons.

 

Anyway, thanks for those that read and offer their views.

Edited March 23, 2019 by ManMar

[Amethyst68]

If she did split up with her BF then what? You are still married, would you then leave your wife, your family?

[mark clemson]

it takes me less than 24h to miss her like crazy and start feeling anxiety.

It is a really bitter state of mind. I feel I am obsessed with her. Not sure why. She is definitely getting married in early May...

 

Her day-to-day is full with all the little things of the wedding organization, mine revolves around her.

 

So I find myself with a mix of anxiety and jealousy, trapped in a situation that is going to continue hurting.

 

I am lost now. I need some time to gather air and perspective

 

I'm going to assume this is limerence and not something worse like obsessive love. You should probably research this (wikipedia should be fine) to understand what it is. You should realize that it often takes 1-3 years to resolve and fade. So, you are probably in for this hurt for a while.

 

I think that the sooner you end this, the easier it will be, as being with her (probably even just seeing her or things that strongly remind you of her) is likely to keep retriggering it. From what you say, I'm pretty certain you're going to be visibly upset at that wedding. Time to call in sick...

 

 

 

We have discussed all this in detail. We know that the only way to really break up is for her to leave her job, and engage in a full NC, forever. However, neither of us seems determined to take that step.

 

(btw, I've been a couple of times to see a therapist, he tells me that it is me who needs to stop this, that most likely she is going to go with the flow as she is getting the best of both worlds and is much better than me in handling the sit in her mind.

 

 

In my opinion this is correct. It would probably benefit both of you the most for her to look for other job options and go full NC. In addition, her view of the affair might change once she's actually married. At any rate, I'm quite certain you'd be able to offer her a glowing career recommendation.

 

Think you're at the point where the A starts to get worse, not better. Finally taking the right action now might be of high value to both of you.

[elaine567]

You have to be careful you do not fall into the "There is no fool like an old fool" category.

Of course she doesn't want to end it, she is a smart cookie after all. It is not in her best interests to end it.

She no doubt has her bf, now fiancé, round her little finger and now you too...

[assertives]

Your therapist is right. This is something that you'll need to take action on your own, and not something that talking to him will help.

 

If you are serious about keeping your marriage, and not getting involved in hers, but yet neither of you seem to be able to end things, have you considered perhaps coming clean with your wife? If she's already suspicious, it's only a matter of time she will find out. Perhaps some enternal "help" could act as a motivation to help you break away.

 

Affairs are addictive, sometimes with addiction, you may need external help and that your own efforts alone may not be sufficient.

[ManMar]

Yesterday we had a two hour phone conversation. I initiated it, after a bachelorette party weekend she has spent with some girlfriends.

 

We barely spoke during the weekend, which is yet another red flag on the mental split she is able to handle. Just last week we spent three nights together, with total focus on each other, including daydreaming on a common future. Two days after, she goes partying to celebrate her coming wedding.

 

It seems I'm not that good in switching on and off with this double life. I cant get her out of my mind. She says she feels the same, but I think we play in different levels. She is able to make a split, live an alternative social life, and then come back.

 

Anyway, the conversation was not heated, we both used a soft tone of voice, but the content was unsettling as we discussed our incoherences. She finally cut off telling me she was not feeling well. We continued texting during the day. We did not reach a conclusion.

 

My message was that we are living in a contradiction that is very toxic for both. I pointed to all the ILYs and the dreams together that we are having, and asked ourselves to what extent they are just mental masturbation.

 

I told her that I am not well, that I live with a level of anxiety that is very unhealthy. I am taking meds to fight it for the first time in my life. She feels the same, she is also taking medication as she has trouble sleeping.

 

It seems the only moments we are calm is when we daydream together or when we see each other. Everything else is increasingly stressful as the wedding approaches. I think I have strong signs of addition; she is not that bad, as she is much better keeping an alternative social live and she is entertained with the wedding preparation, but she shows similar addiction symptoms the moment we talk.

 

In the meanwhile, her BF is in other country. Unaware of this storm that is being going on for such a long time. We were in an EA for a few months, right after we met, then it became a PA. They have been together for five years, three of which overlap with our story. Amazing.

 

She is telling me that she feels indifferent about him, but she has been unable to cancel the wedding. She has trouble rationalizing it, she believes that maybe deep down she feels he is good enough. We never discussed cancelling the wedding, it is just going to happen.

 

The reality is that I am not an option right now, but I could within the next two years. The reasons for this are long to explain.

 

I asked her about her future plans with him. She is totally confused. On one hand, she cant find the motivation for building a life with him. On the other, she feels she wont be able to leave him in the future. She seems to assume that it could just work out somehow, as they get along and he loves her.

 

With regards to us, she is aware of the contradiction. She says she really means the dreams we have together, but when she faces the reality of her actual actions everything is like a mess she cant sort out. She basically wants both worlds. Needless to say, all this wrapped with love words. I think that she is genuinely in love with me, but all our differences make our plans almost unfeasible (and I agree).

 

Anyway, we both have trouble facing reality. She seems to assume we can continue like this, daydreaming, seeing each other and at the same time keeping her day-to-day life. I told her that a double life is killing me, that we will need to resolve it in some direction. I also told her that I still don't know how I'm going to handle her wedding. With her, I have been jealous for the first time in my life, it is a bitter feeling that I just dont want to be part of my personality. I have always been a very confident man, not sure wtf is going on in my mind.

 

I have forced her to tell me what she really wants from us. Either we think on us together or we don't, but I cannot handle in my mind living this dangerous fairytail where everything is a mirage. I am certain that forced with a choice, she will pick the sensible option of focusing on her marriage.

 

I think what I am trying to do is make us both face reality, digest that we need to part ways and change our mindset.

 

I expect she will come back to me today, saying that she agrees this cannot continue. We need both to agree and commit with our decision. Problem is, we love each other.

Edited March 26, 2019 by ManMar

[bmh]

If she dumped her fiancé would you dump your wife?

[Abetterme]

Yes, Manmar - I wonder this too. If you are both so unhappy not being with one another, what is stopping you from telling her you don’t want her to get married and that you will divorce your wife?

 

If you aren’t willing to do that, you need to move to end things and quit torturing yourself with the lead up to the wedding. I can somewhat relate as my xAP was having a baby with his spouse and somehow I couldn’t drag myself away from the A. Like if I knew what was happening it would make it easier than not, but this wasn’t true. Now that I’m out of the fog, I wish for so many reasons (namely respect for our spouses) but also a lot for my own sanity, that I had ended things much sooner and escaped it. I didn’t have to work with or see him as we were long distance, so it was easier but I hope you make a better decision than I. It hurts, but it is necessary unless you’re willing to do the above.

[Timshel]

I have to ask ManMar, how's your wife? While you are figuratively biting your nails to the quick and medicating yourself to suppress your unrequited love, surely your wife has noticed? How is your wife holding up?

 

 

My advice would be to divorce your wife since it seems she practically does not exist in your life already. Divorce her whether you will have a soft place to fall or not because unless she has no love/care for you, it's painful to imagine what her day to day life with you is like.

 

 

 

Do something. Be bold, take a stand, make a choice...get off the crapper and move.

 

God bless the movers and shakers of the world, we love them and hate them but by God we would still be waiting for lightening to strike a tree for fire without them.

 

 

You are the maker of your own misery ManMar and life is not long enough to justify.

[ManMar]

Life update - not sure why, but writing in down somehow helps. I know it is not an original story, this drama seems quite common in these situations.

 

Anyway, we spoke this morning, by text. She was again mumbling between ideas, with ILY but I also I cant see a future together. Again in no-mans land.

 

I was getting increasingly upset, so I told her to stop altogether. Enough. That we needed to make a decision. I asked her: do you want me in your life? she came back with a yes and no answer. I want you in my life, but not like this, I dont know how.

 

I insisted, this is not an answer, be clear, do you want me in your life?

 

She took a few minutes, then replied: No, I want us to forget each other.

 

I was basically cornering her and I expected her to be reactive. I was prepared for that answer. So I immediately triggered the consequences. I told her, ok, I want you to call for a partners meeting right away, to say that you are living the company after your honeymoon. Get out of my life. I dont want to see you again, never.

 

I left that sink in, so that she is aware of what is going to happen. I am now going to soften the tone, on the phone and work out a smooth exit.

 

I am obviously ****ed up right now. But know it is for the best, for both of us.

 

Thanks to those reading and those commenting.

 

I'll try to reply to your questions when I have some time.

[bmh]

I’m glad a decision has been made. I hope you’re able to stick to it.