So many clichés, so obvious... how come I cant stop it?

[ManMar]

I just saw how you and she don't actually live in the same city, ManMar. I think my previous post still stands; you will have to continue to change the way you are thinking about her and this situation with her. You already know you need to end it and why. You are fighting the urge, but you'll need to be stronger. Do NOT go on the trip next week! This WILL set you back. I honestly believe that aforementioned coaching session would benefit you. It does cost something, and I did not want to pay it, and I have very strong reservations that it would not help me, but it did. And I have listened to it multiple times. It wasn't the only thing that helped, but it helped me with my resolve. You also need support as you continue along the path, so I think LoveShack is also good for that...even though it might not seem like it...

 

Hi, thanks for taking the time.

 

I feel the OW and I have made good progress on finishing this situation, but we are still struggling with the last step.

 

As I mentioned, the idea of being together that at some point we cultivated is no longer discussed. We are 99% convinced. Yes, this 1% is still on the back of our minds, but we know is a long term unrealistic thought.

 

Paradoxically, agreeing that we cant be together has released a lot of tension between us, which has worked in the opposite direction to leaving the affair: we now feel that all we have between us is the present, so we prolong it.

 

We had this very dramatic encounter a few weeks ago, we told each other that it was impossible, we spent the whole day together and kissed good bye.... only to start talking a week after and again in bed in two weeks. Problem is, we cannot avoid being in love, or addicted to each other, or whatever we want to call it. It is a weird situation, bc we have all these emotions and affection together, and at the same time we continue with separate lives. Schizophrenic.

 

In my mind:

 

- There is no future on this situation. I should take care of my wife, she deserves it.

 

- I should also be considerate with the OW. She is getting married, I have to get out of her way. This double life is going to hurt her badly. She can go ahead and marry a guy being in love with some other guy, which is going to create all sorts of internal conflicts. There is also a chance she cancels the wedding last minute, which would be a terrible idea she would regret all her life.

 

- I should take care of myself. This mess is draining my time and energy. I am a shadow of the person I used to be.

 

- I have an addiction. My life revolves around the love and passion I have with the OW. Even though I know is damaging and based on a fantasy.

 

- Although I feel discomfort, I am not in deep pain now. But there are very black clouds in the horizon: she is getting married and I am not sure how I will handle the actual wedding and the day after.

 

- I detest the idea of continuing the affair after she gets married, but there is a chance that happens if we continue on this path. I detest the idea of continue lying to my wife.

 

- I die to see her next week but I should not.

 

- I am focusing on the bad aspects of all this to kill idealization. I want to feel jealous of her BF and disappointed with her for treating him like that. I am trying to paint her with dark brushes as a defense mechanism.

 

- I am in NC for a few days. I want to clear my mind and focus on other stuff.

 

Apologies for so many words, this helps me organize my mind.

Edited February 6, 2019 by ManMar

[What_Did_I_Do]

I can feel your struggle OP. The thought of ripping something 'beautiful' up from its roots is unbearable. But Vivir is right, neither of you are making steps to be together so the only option is to end it all. Excruciating, I know.

 

Expand on those dark thoughts to kill the idealization and fantasy. Take it one step further and imagine the OW making love (can I say that here mods?) to her fiancé, telling him how much she loves him and enjoying their undoubted excitement planning this May wedding. Because she is doing this you know.

 

You'll probably go see her next week. Will be your swan song, so to speak. But you're doing the right things now by preparing for the end. Keep posting here. Hope we are helping in some way.

[ManMar]

Expand on those dark thoughts to kill the idealization and fantasy. Take it one step further and imagine the OW making love (can I say that here mods?) to her fiancé, telling him how much she loves him and enjoying their undoubted excitement planning this May wedding. Because she is doing this you know.

.

 

I agree, she is doing exactly that... however, more than that knee jerk rejection that you suggest, and that I do promote in my head by thinking on images of her with her BF,.... beyond that, I wonder how she can handle all this... how you manage such a storm... planning a wedding and having an affair at the same time?

 

...just today, she is helping her BF finding an apartment in a new city...and texting me "I've seen a place that would be perfect for you and me"... followed by ILYs.... when we have agreed that we have not future between us!

 

Yes, you can be some sort of narcissist sociopath and don't give a damm, but assuming that she is not a psycho... how can a woman rationalize with herself this sort of behavior? can she be in love with two guys? is it the addiction? is it just pure irresponsibility and living the moment and the fantasy? is it squeezing the last moments before a long term commitment with her BF? is she confused and reconsidering between the two of us? (that would be totally wrong! we do not have a future together!)

 

I understand that the affair is exiting. I also get that some aspects of a grown-up man can be momentarily fun for a young woman: I am confident, experienced, I take care of myself physically, with no taboos in any sense, and I have the means to enjoy life... I know it sounds awful and pretentious, but I am able to look at me objectively... so I also know that I am 50yo and that my peak years are well behind me... I am not a guy for a young woman (in fact, I have never been attracted by young woman!)

 

... and she is very pretty 28yo, she basically has all the options open for her; she can have guys in her 30's in a second if what she wants is the sexual stuff... after the novelty, why does she continue with a 20y older MM? despite the generational gap, despite all the trouble, despite the potential alternatives, why?

 

My concern is that I may be manipulating the situation and not letting her go... I know she is not a girl, she is a woman, but I sometimes wonder if I am abusing the situation without noticing...

 

Maybe you can provide a woman perspective

 

In any case, many thanks for the time.

Edited February 6, 2019 by ManMar

[Vivir]

I feel the OW and I have made good progress on finishing this situation, but we are still struggling with the last step.

 

we now feel that all we have between us is the present, so we prolong it.

 

That last step is where you get close enough to the fire that it burns you and you start walking through it without turning back. It is scary. It hurts. You will want to turn back. You might turn back. You might run back.

 

But every time you stop and start and push and pull, resentment may begin to grow and fester. The dynamic becomes more and more toxic. You don't want that. It is unnecessary pain.

 

Furthermore, I agree that you should be considerate of the OW; however, she is a grown woman and must be responsible for her own decisions. You will not be able to do her part for her. As you mentioned, your responsibility and obligation lies with yourself and your wife.

 

Being a shadow of oneself is an observation that is often recounted in this forum due to participation in an affair. I am not surprised that you mentioned this at all.

 

You can prepare yourself for her wedding by backing off right now. It is still three months away. Three months NC is bona fide progress. As you've surmised, waiting until the actual day is likely to be a very bad thing for both of you. And, if you did not know, there are threads here on LoveShack where people continued affairs into brand new marriages...

 

You may feel that you're going to die if you don't see her next week. So, you have to make working on clearing your mind to focus on other stuff a top priority... prioritize it over the (damaging) benefits of seeing and being with the OW.

 

I agree with you and WDID about focusing on the bad aspects of all this to kill idealization. In fact, we advise OW to do anything to paint their (x)MM with broad negative brushes so they will stay away from them... sometimes it works, but all of it is a process. It take Time and energy and determination to unlearn bad habits.

 

Lastly, journaling is recommended as medicine when ending relationships. I include affairs in this category. It is promising that your posting here allows you to organize your thoughts. Keep posting!

[What_Did_I_Do]

Hard to say if she is just using you and the affair for just fun. If she has expressed heartfelt thoughts and feelings and is visibly upset when you two part ways after a meet up, then probably not.

 

Unless your OW is a certifiable narcissist, she too is torn with these emotions. She likely feels just as helpless as you regarding the inevitable end. My uneducated guess here is she would rather be with you but knows this is simply not possible, so she stays the course with her current BF. He is safe and a guarantee. You are not.

[Songbird4]

You mentioned she came on strong and pursued you until you gave in... the answer is simple, you let her go from her position. The moment she made advances you needed to end it there. Instead you are now dealing with something that will only continue to get messy.

 

This girl has issues of her own. She betrayed her fiancé just as you betrayed your wife. The honestly and loyalty that is expected in a marriage was not there for your wife. It’s very unfair to her. And you mentioned you have went outside of the marriage before but felt no guilt and didn’t consider it cheating? Please seek counseling. You will find answers as to why you are behaving the way you do. If you love your wife do the right thing and tell her the truth.

[ManMar]

You mentioned she came on strong and pursued you until you gave in... the answer is simple, you let her go from her position. The moment she made advances you needed to end it there. Instead you are now dealing with something that will only continue to get messy.

 

This girl has issues of her own. She betrayed her fiancé just as you betrayed your wife. The honestly and loyalty that is expected in a marriage was not there for your wife. It’s very unfair to her. And you mentioned you have went outside of the marriage before but felt no guilt and didn’t consider it cheating? Please seek counseling. You will find answers as to why you are behaving the way you do. If you love your wife do the right thing and tell her the truth.

 

Hi, thanks for your time.

 

Given the strong bias in your comment, I was curious as to where you are coming from, so I read your thread.

 

I understand you are struggling with your own situation and sometimes it helps to think in binary terms, black or white, good or evil, my loving husband or this horrible person that lives with me.

 

I really dont know if your husband is a devil in disguise or not, but from your description, I would bet he is not. I understand that you have to protect yourself from the pain you are suffering, but if you were my friend, I would listen to you and then tell you to give yourself some time and soften this binary view of the world. You need a more realistic assessment of him and of yourself, and then you will be in a position to make a decision that is going to require trade offs. You need to calm down and avoid deciding something so relevant based on your first emotional response. Forget about simplifications and big words. Life is complex.

 

For example, you mention that "the right thing" is to always tell your spouse if you stray. I have a different view. I believe that before doing something like that you have to make an assessment of the consequences. Life is real, it is not an abstract. Maybe your spouse is much better off not knowing but recovering you. Maybe not, maybe your spouse is much better off being totally aware of every detail. Or maybe something in the middle. It is a complex situation not suited for a simple answer. Determining "what is fair" goes beyond a simplistic view of the world.

 

In my view, my affair is a betrayal to my wife, but not because of the sex. It is a betrayal because she counts on me as a companion, as a confidant and as her best friend, and being in love with someone else has meant I have not being there with my wife for the last year and a half. I have been distant, detached and cold.

 

You mention counseling as if there were some set of values and priorities that are the absolute truth, and that I should talk to someone so that they show me the light. I totally disagree. I have a very clear mind. Counseling may work as a guidance to understand and control feelings or unwanted behavior, but imo, there is not just one "true" view of human relationships. I have one, that may be similar to yours in some aspects but totally different in others. I do agree, however, that whatever view you have, it is only fair that your partner knows it.

 

My wife knows who I am very well. She would not be happy, but she could understand NSA sex- it would not be a reason for breaking up our history or our future together. However, I have crossed a much different line, I am totally out of boundaries- I've put other woman as my priority over my wife. That is a betrayal. No excuse.

 

Btw, in my case, whether this woman initiated the advance or not is totally irrelevant. I am in this affair out of free will. I tried to make a fair description of what happened, I was not justifying my actions.

 

Anyway, I stop there. All the best.-

Edited February 8, 2019 by ManMar

[brigit87]

This girl has issues of her own. She betrayed her fiancé just as you betrayed your wife. The honestly and loyalty that is expected in a marriage was not there for your wife. It’s very unfair to her.

 

I agree.

 

This girl has issues and what OP is doing to his wife is unfair.

 

My guess is the OW will get married and become distracted by her married life and soon lose interest in you OP.

 

Getting cold feet before a wedding isn't uncommon. Getting married is scary.

 

OP you need to let your wife go. Give her a nice divorce settlement and meet a single woman.

[ManMar]

My guess is the OW will get married and become distracted by her married life and soon lose interest in you OP.

 

I totally agree, and I should respect that, keep distance and forget about the whole thing.

 

Problem is we work together and I do think NC is the way to go. We are still too mad for each other.

 

I cant leave the company as I am the founder. She could, but it is a really fascinating job, very well paid and she excels at it. She was the first employee in a high growth tech business. Difficult to give up, but most likely is what she ends up doing, which wont be good neither for the company nor for her career. I dont think that is a fair resolution for this.

 

Anyway, in the meanwhile, we are again entangled in texting while she is away with her BF in one city and I am in my home office in another. Absurd. We act like irresponsible adolescents. We are finally seeing each other next week, maybe for the last time.

Edited February 8, 2019 by ManMar

[Vivir]

So, you're going to meet her next week anyway

Most of the time, people have to let it play out (I did, too). You'll see it through to the bitter end, but I hope that isn't too little too late for you or for her... it's a huge risk you two continue to take.

[Orokotikki]

Hardly worth mentioning - but informing the fiance may save you from future legal entanglements, as you are her superior. If you don't see how this could go sideways later well... GLHAND.

[brigit87]

Anyway, in the meanwhile, we are again entangled in texting while she is away with her BF in one city and I am in my home office in another. Absurd. We act like irresponsible adolescents. We are finally seeing each other next week, maybe for the last time.

 

You'll have fun till it gets ugly. This is a train wreck in progress.

[CaliforniaOtherMan]

don't see her. keep it strictly professional. stop texting. much easier said than done i know. you'll be happier in the long run. this is just my two cents though.

[Starswillshine]

Just curious, have you ever told your wife about your NSA sex outside your marriage?

[WasOtherWoman]

There is also the possibility that your OW is wired like some men are... she is able to compartmentalize you and her BF. It feels like she is acting more like a MM than an OW.

 

Many women (I was one of them) do enjoy the thrill of the chase and the thrill of having more than one relationship at a time. I also pursued my MM, it was not the other way around.

 

In short, I just think when a woman thinks and acts like a man, everyone does not know how to interpret it.

 

Just my .02

[ManMar]

So, you're going to meet her next week anyway

Most of the time, people have to let it play out (I did, too). You'll see it through to the bitter end, but I hope that isn't too little too late for you or for her... it's a huge risk you two continue to take.

 

Hello Vivir and others,

 

Update:

 

- Texting with OW when my intention was to go NC for a few days. Conclusion: in this emotional state, my rational intentions are pretty much worthless.

 

- ILYs, mixed with this sit cant continue, mixed with I cant wait to see you next week. Schizophrenic, again.

 

- More and more, when she tells me ILY, I got uncomfortable. I like to hear that bc I die for her, but she has to get married! I am NOT an option. She has to go on with her life. I dont want her to get distracted from her objective. She will be happy with her BF.

 

- I love her. She loves me. A lot. That I know. It is as genuine as it gets. I also know it is not possible we can be together, and I know all this passion will be just a memory at some point. Age gives me perspective.

 

- I'm starting to think that a lot of this affair has to do with chance: a middle age crisis that has hit me by surprise (after a family tragedy of major proportions), together with her curiosity and daddy issues. It is by coincidence we are together. I caught me at a vulnerable emotional moment. It does not make it less real though.

 

- I am 50yo and getting old full speed. This is life. I cannot get back to 30yo, I cannot live another life. Mine has been plentiful. I have had a fantastic wife by my side. I need to put myself together and dont pretend I can go back. I am happy with the age I am!

 

- This young woman is in love with the wrong guy. I am not an easy person. My mind goes full speed, I am demanding, I can be manipulative, I am super intense. She thought it was all about flirting and getting in bed with her boss. A challenge for a pretty girl, cause I rejected her for some time. But this game is going to cost her too much, and I dont think she is fully aware. I am not happy about that, I feel responsible for her. I should behave and think for her as well.

 

- I am going to grow old by my wife (if she wants). Even though I am totally mad for this girl and she reciprocates.... I know everything will evaporate.... the love of my wife is not subject to this sort of ups and downs, she just loves me. I am a lucky man, I dont deserve it.

 

- I rationally choose my wife over this young woman cause I believe that is the best for both of us (she is getting married anyway, maybe even if I wanted, She would have declined). If I was 35yo I believe I would have left my wife and my life for this love. Well, I am pretty sure I would have done that.

 

Sorry for the disappointment, but I am going to see her next week. To be honest, I do think this could be the last time.

 

As always, thanks for the comments and in general for the time dedicated to this otherwise not very interesting story.

 

XOXO

Edited February 8, 2019 by ManMar

[ManMar]

There is also the possibility that your OW is wired like some men are... she is able to compartmentalize you and her BF. It feels like she is acting more like a MM than an OW.

 

I totally agree. I dont pretend to be an expert on women, but in this case the roles seem a bit reversed to what I generally perceive in this forum.

 

She behaves more like a man, and I am not the stereotype guy that is simplistically looking for sex. I love sex, but I dont have any taboos, or any needs, or fantasies that I need to live... at least that I am aware of.

 

From very early in my life I have had a very open mind and I have done pretty much everything I wanted to try... sex is great but I not obsessed by it. I am obsessed by her.

 

I know it may sound extremely pretentious, but sometimes I feel used by her. I notice that the combination of sexual and emotional openness that she finds in us is something that she seems addicted to, more than me.

Edited February 9, 2019 by ManMar

[Crazelnut]

For me, it boils down to this: you are both selfish and you, in particular, are weak. You know the right thing to do, but you will not do it. To me, that's the worst part of this. You're play acting like some distraught lover in a cheap romance novel, with no will of your own, being pulled around by The Fates. Dude, this is real life. You are going to destroy multiple people's lives. Selfish and weak.

[ManMar]

For me, it boils down to this: you are both selfish and you, in particular, are weak. <snip>

 

Wow, from your post history it seems I am not the first one you call "weak" and "selfish" and many other things. You probably have good reasons for that anger and bitterness.

 

Having said that, I have to admit that you are right: I am being selfish and I have not being particularly strong. I guess you are an example of generosity and strength, but we are not all like you.

 

Now, I dont share your cynical view of the world, but I dont have a "cheap romance novel" view of the world either. I dont believe in fate and I am responsible for my actions.

 

Best-

Edited February 12, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Truncate quote

[Orokotikki]

Challenge yourself to overcome your excuses and deflections, and to do what you know is right.

[Cullenbohannon]

We will not comment on the affair, however if you have any sense of empathy, humanity, or decency you would do everything in your power to convince her NOT to marry this guy.

 

You write that she should marry this guy, but deep down you know the truth is the opposite. She does not love him. She is planning to cheat WITH YOU thruout the marriage. She will tear this guy to shreds.

 

Do this guy a huge favor. For once look down the line and see someone besides yourself. Dig deep for a little bit of decency and convince her to stop this farce of a wedding.

[ManMar]

We will not comment on the affair, however if you have any sense of empathy, humanity, or decency you would do everything in your power to convince her NOT to marry this guy.<snip>.

 

I understand what you are saying, I have thought about it, but I think you have two incorrect assumptions:

 

1) she is NOT planning to cheat with me throughout the marriage (I am not planning that neither) and

 

2) she is not mad for her BF, but that does not mean she does not love him... she is now mad for the image she has of me (not even my real me, we have just lived a long honeymoon)... but we all know being "mad" for someone is no more than limerance, infatuation or the fog.... it has an expiry date...

 

what I am trying to say is that I dont have crystal ball, I dont know the future... I think she will be starting her marriage with the wrong foot... but it may work... the moment she has children, priorities will change and who knows

 

having said all that, I did give her my opinion, twice: I told her to marry whoever she wants, but totally convinced, 100%... I insisted that a long term commitment is difficult enough to start it messing around... I said that to her very seriously, she just answered me she has to live with the idea that she got married while mad for someone else

 

i really dont know what is going to happen, but my bet is that in 5 years time she will be either content with her decision (and with real commitment for her marriage), or just divorced, with a new partner that she totally loves (not me) ...but I cant see her living two lifes, married and cheating long term with her real love

Edited February 12, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Truncate quote

[Orokotikki]

2) she is not mad for her BF, but that does not mean she does not love him...

 

But it does mean she doesn't love him ENOUGH.

No one deserves to have such a rotten starting hand dealt in their marriage.

[ManMar]

But it does mean she doesn't love him ENOUGH.

No one deserves to have such a rotten starting hand dealt in their marriage.

 

I have a different view, she probably loves him enough to marry him... but she is not committed...

 

and yes, the BF does not deserve this... I dont think he even knows who she really is, I mean as a woman, her past, her real needs, that sort of thing... but she is pretty, bright, educated, from a good family... he has all that except that he is a regular guy, not the equivalent to her in terms of attractiveness... sometimes I think he just closes his eyes bc it is difficult he will get anything similar... I guess he thinks he can tame her.... but that is only my speculation, i dont really know

[Amethyst68]

So you're not going to continue the affair after her marriage?

 

 

Why do you honor her commitment and marriage more than your own?