This affair almost ruined my life!!!

[mark clemson]

Reading about your history, the reasoning behind some of your choices are much clearer. I can see why you're doing what you're doing. IME true change in oneself comes from showing humility and vulnerability and frankly I see neither in you. Maybe it will come. Good luck.

 

 

So, where is the humility and vulnerability in judging others from a place of self-assessed moral superiority and finding them wanting?

 

They are a different person in a different situation and perhaps their path to whatever new state they will eventually reach is different and much slower than yours? Perhaps they will never reach a state that satisfies YOU - but it satisfies them just fine. Not the end of the world, is it?

[aliveagain]

@dazey!! Exactly right!! It had too be done to save families. To save good spouses from extreme pain that's irreversible. I had the same exact scenario as him so I was upset more about the miss then breaking apart families. I never wanted him to leave. Our spouses have the right to the good lives we promised them. I don't regret my affair because I learned so much about life. I needed to grow up and stop feeling so entitled. I will never go back and I have thanked him because he was a life lesson for me..

 

Making a statement like this really proves out your name Naivewoman. "Our spouses have the right to the good lives we promised them," prepare yourself for the day when you have to explain this to your husband, children and immediate family. Just because they don't know today does not mean that the truth will never come to the light. Five years with another man is a hard thing to explain(hope I remember the length of your affair correctly). Affairs don't save families or it wouldn't be a sin in the Bible. I have never heard of anyone being told by their physiologist to have an affair if they want to save their family. Until you tell your husband the truth it will always be an ongoing betrayal, just my opinion. He is the one that really matters, the affair is a secret from him, a secret that you and the other man share and keep from him.

Edited May 29, 2019 by aliveagain

[DKT3]

Unfortunately mark, there isnt mutilpe paths to get were she wants to go. There is only one.

 

Plainly stated, she isnt there. Bittersweet didn't get there as soon as her affair ended, it took my wife 14 months and divorce papers to get there.

 

I suspect in time NW will in fact confess. I recall some time ago a female poster coming here some ten years after being divorced and married to another man, asking for advice on how to tell her ex husband she had cheated on him with her current husband who had recently cheated on her. One never knows when something will cause one to face their demons.

 

At this moment NW is still of split loyalties. In part she is with MM but she realizes it's not going to happen so she is falling to her backup. Which is the abandonment issues, in this moment she cant fathom losing her husband as well. So taking the path that she deep down knows is the only way to go isnt an option. This tells me that she doesn't truth her husbands love for her, I believe she feels he will abandon her if she reveals her truth.

 

I think she would be better served telling herself that instead of trying to convince herself that she can simply go back into a marriage with a man she doesn't love, doesn't find attractive and doesn't want to have sex with.

 

Which brings me to my last point. How fair is it to her husband that she condemns him to a future with her under these circumstances? Who wants to be someone's fallback or someone who has to get s through sex or make themselves want to be with you?

[heartwhole2]

I’m not claiming never to have told a lie, though I can’t think of a single one I’ve told someone I’m close to. I did tell someone that I wasn’t going out of town last week when I was because I didn’t want it known my house would be empty. But I don’t lie about who I am or what I do.

 

Being a generally honest person allows true intimacy. Being honest keeps you honest. I told my husband when my high school boyfriend messaged me last year and told that thinking about me sends him into a tailspin. Knowing I would tell my husband steered me away from saying anything I would regret.

 

When you make yourself the curator and arbiter of other people’s truth, you harm them, yes. But what I’m trying to get across is that you also harm yourself. You rob yourself of authentic relationships. I’m suggesting that if you keep doing what you’ve been doing, you’ll keep getting what you’ve been getting. You may not realize that other people do have true intimacy with one another because you think dishonesty is normal. It’s only normal if you allow it to be.

[Bittersweetie]

So, where is the humility and vulnerability in judging others from a place of self-assessed moral superiority and finding them wanting?

 

They are a different person in a different situation and perhaps their path to whatever new state they will eventually reach is different and much slower than yours? Perhaps they will never reach a state that satisfies YOU - but it satisfies them just fine. Not the end of the world, is it?

 

I am the last person who would judge a wayward spouse or claim any kind of moral superiority. However I can understand the thinking of a wayward wife who is trying to reconcile with her husband, since I have been exactly there. And in my experience (like I mentioned in the PP), it took to becoming completely humble and vulnerable to implement true changes in oneself.

 

I realize people walk on paths at different speeds...I know in the past I have probably been too tough on other WW who were not as far as I was. I recognized that in myself and look to not repeat that. I thought NW was further ahead and that my comments could help her since she has no true accountability in real life...but I am beginning to rethink those thoughts, considering her last few posts. I just may not be someone who can help her.

[mark clemson]

@Bittersweetie - well, that wasn't what I got out of your post earlier today. However, it's certainly true that people take shortcuts in expressing themselves to make their point, so perhaps you weren't including the whys and wherefores, which is understandable.

[mark clemson]

@DKT3 - I agree with most of your post, although I'm not seeing NW's continuing loyalty to MM - she seems to be stating the direct opposite. However, my ability to read between the lines on posts is far from infallible so you could well be right.

 

I do think (in line with what I think you are saying) that if NW's end-goal is to be totally in love with her husband again, it would take some doing. In fact I'm not sure WHAT would accomplish that - telling might indeed help, it might not, and it might backfire. Personally, I could not tolerate a sexless marriage for 1 year (perhaps barring medical issues), let alone 5, so he is clearly very different from me.

 

You posted the following regarding staying LT without telling:

 

You can remain married, you can even have a good marriage. But there will always be a distance between you and an axe in the air.

 

Perhaps NW will have to choose between having a good marriage (with some distance) and having her ideal state? Perhaps her ideal state is not realistic at this point regardless of what she tries, though.

[DKT3]

Yeah its split loyalties because she is try to force herself out of the affair with a man she wants and back to a marriage with a man she doesn't want. All of this thanking MM is asinine and twisting that knife she has buried deep into the backs of her family.

 

For some context, what wife and mother would thank someone who has physically harmed her husband and children? It all shows the mental gymnastics it requires to carry out a 5 year long affair, the things one in that situation has to force themselves to believe .

[Naivewomen]

I have zero loyalty to my xmm. Zero. I owe him nothing. As far as being intimate with my husband the last 5 years let me clarify. The affair was 5 years total. The first two years was strictly an EA which I was definitely naive too. Intimacy became a problem only last year with my spouse as the emotional connection fell too MM and I distanced myself so much from my H. It got to the point where separation was on the table. Intimacy has genuinely been restored little by little. I wanted to refeel and not just go through the motions. It started off as just going through the motions but as I started reconnecting with my H outside the bedroom, I was able to reconnect. I have read various articles of this happening to many. I have been with my H for 27 years and knew that if I loved him once before and definitely before this affair ALL cant be that broken. I am not claiming it has been very difficult as I am more of an emotional person than even i thought. My H was disgusted with me from all the pushback. I was so lost and deep within my fog and so very selfish. I understand now how entitled I thought I was. Look I never did anything like this before and if I didn't cross and overstep the boundaries I would have protected what I had with my family. They were definitely not my priority. I can now see all of this. My family is now my priority I'm sure this will never ever happen again. It wasnt about the sex for me ever. It was the emotional connection that had be swept away. I believe it's a process unwinding. I know it's so much less intense for me now. The longing and wanting and feeling desperate for him is gone. I'm finally free from that pain. I would never reenter into something so belittling to who I believe I am. I wholeheartedly apologize to all BS's out there! Had I been empathetic to them more this would have been a nonissue. My h did not deserve this and I will make it up to him. Hes not my fall back plan because i could easily have another. He is the one i married and i will give him a fun full selfless version of me now.

[DKT3]

NW, I believe that you really WANT to change your situation, but you have to understand that comments like this

 

Some days I wish temptation to take that hold over me again

 

It pretty much cancels out the comments you've made in your last post. You do still want MM, not being honest doesn't help. Maybe you dont want to want him. When you say I thank MM and dont regret the affair it says you DO NOT want your husband. If you did there would be no way you would be thankful for anything that has the potential to destroy his life as he knows it.

Edited May 30, 2019 by DKT3

[Naivewomen]

DK, I understand how that reads. It's all part of the affair addiction recovery. The highs are exactly the same of a former drug user. It's all a part of the process of recovering. As the betrayed, you will and can never understand this. The brain chemicals released during those highs are major withdrawals when its over. Your brain acts the sameway as a heroin user. I realized it's not worth those highs because the affair is not validating nor fulfilling. I was a former user I have to admit this too myself and only too myself. I'm sure that committed love will conquer all those illusions surrounding the affair. I'm only halfway there and feel alive again, I was bedribben and put myself in my own rehab the best way I knew how. I knew for damn sure my spouse wasnt going to coddle me back to normalcy. During this process, he grew a backbone himself and wasnt going to sit back and aid in my healing. It had to come from deep within my soul.

[Starswillshine]

DK, I understand how that reads. It's all part of the affair addiction recovery. The highs are exactly the same of a former drug user. It's all a part of the process of recovering. As the betrayed, you will and can never understand this. The brain chemicals released during those highs are major withdrawals when its over. Your brain acts the sameway as a heroin user. I realized it's not worth those highs because the affair is not validating nor fulfilling. I was a former user I have to admit this too myself and only too myself. I'm sure that committed love will conquer all those illusions surrounding the affair. I'm only halfway there and feel alive again, I was bedribben and put myself in my own rehab the best way I knew how. I knew for damn sure my spouse wasnt going to coddle me back to normalcy. During this process, he grew a backbone himself and wasnt going to sit back and aid in my healing. It had to come from deep within my soul.

 

Sometimes I feel that WS read so much about affairs, that they start to use some things as excuses. My mistake was giving my xWH things to read. And then he would use those things as excuses for where he was. "You know, it's all a process." I was so sick of those words. Sick of hearing about addiction. It did no good.

 

Anyway, you are not him. Just sometimes it feels so much like justifications from MP here.

[DKT3]

Having not been a WS doesn't mean I dont understand addiction. It doesn't explain the fondness and gratitude that you continue to hold for MM.

 

My wife and I know have a much better relationship than we have ever had, even before her affair. Her affair was the catalyst that push me into introspection, this process made me, in many ways a better man. In others it diminished me. Likewise my wife also was forced to recognize flaws. Neither of us stand gratified with the affair. Neither of us are happy it happened. It is what it was, we made the best of it and moved forward.

 

Lastly, you are attempting to control the narrative in your marriage. No balanced well adjusted and healthy relationship can grow under these circumstances. As I said before it will at best be what it was most likely what it is right now in this moment. What it was led to you having an affair. What it is now is slightly worse. There is no balance, no foundation to build a strong marriage in the future. Not to mention the ever looming threat of death by discovery.

[Aloha123]

I suspect that for many people who cheat, it's hard to imagine what a healthy and thriving relationship really is like. If you have friends with similar morals and perspectives, you may not realize that there are other people out there living authentic, inspiring lives.

 

My point is simply that if you have grown up in an unhealthy environment with unhealthy coping mechanisms, then you don't have a concept of healthy living. So "better than before" seems to be just that, never mind that lying is still involved. Because everyone else lies, right? But the truth is, no, they don't. If you are OK with lying to others and assume that others could be lying to you, then you will never have authentic trust and intimacy. But this doesn't alarm you because you have no idea what that even looks like.

 

I agree with everything here except I am NOT surrounded by people with similar morals. My best friend is absolutely horrified by my conduct. But yes I had a very unhealthy childhood which does not justify my behavior but does explain it.

[Amethyst68]

NW, while your last post sounds good and definitely more hopeful for the future I still stand by my last post. As long as you can say anything positive about your affair, that you don't regret it and thank your AP for the opportunity for growth, you will never be a safe partner for your BH. Do you recognise this is wayward behaviour?

[brokenandhopeless]

I strongly disagree. Don't we learn from errors in our life? They may be life-learning lessons to be thankful for. Just because it was not a great situation does not mean it didn't have much character-building value. After all, you don't get character and strength from just good events in life and walking on a bed of roses.

 

It just follows the conclusion that there is nothing good to be learned from bad choices. Non sequitur.

 

She has come a long way and good for her! It's tough to turn off the tap and expect instant changes. These things take time. And even if the AP and the affair were bad, I believe they are a chapter in life to be thankful for. They had their reason and season and were a path to growth.

[DKT3]

Growth requires change, there is no change in her mindset, it remains very much wayward.

 

I have a friend who lost a leg in Iraq. Losing his leg unlocked a path in life for him that has made him very successful, yeah he isnt thankful he lost his leg.

 

I explained in a pervious post how my wife's affair was a catalyst for us being in a great relationship today, neither of us are thankful for her affair. It's all in how you view these things. As stated before, as long as she is thankful she isnt capable of being a safe partner for her husband.

[Aloha123]

Brokenandhopeless, how are you? It's been a while. My guess is you are on the "down" part of the roller coaster, as that's usually find ourselves back her to comisurate. Would love to see an update on your own thread, if you are feeling up to it (I know I personally need to be in the right frame of mind because with each and every post comes the prospect of being bashed).

[DKT3]

I dont think anyone is "bashing". From personal experience, it can be difficult coming here with things in your mind that you feel are good just to have people tell you it's not good enough or keep digging. BH and WW are by far the two most delusional in affairs, they seem to also be the two that struggle here the most.

[PhoenixRising8]

NW, I've been reading your thread quietly this week and thinking a lot about my own situation. Like you, I felt abandoned as a child. I was a toddler when BOTH my parents left me. Spent most of my life wondering why, which feeling was intensified when my own child was born and I wondered how my parents could do that? What was wrong with me? I've been in an out of therapy for years, and have known about my abandonment issues for years.

 

What Bittersweetie said on my thread, and said to you is peel back the onion, and when you think you have, peel it back some more. Over the last week I realized that although I had identified my Achilles heel (abandonment), I realized identification is only peeling back the outer layer. What I did not figure out was how to cope with that feeling of abandonment in a productive way. I realized that I entered into the affair at a time when I felt emotionally abandoned by my ex, again, for the umpteenth time. So I took the wrong path to get the right result. Today I know that. Today, I realize that I if I had the strength to enter into the affair, I had the strength to end my marriage (except of course the abandoned little girl prevailed). Had I had the coping skills to do this, I would be in a much better place right now, with a lot fewer scars and pain to show for it.

 

Am I thankful to xMM for making it easier to leave, and for the affair? No way. And the reason I'm not thankful is because it helped me to perpetuate all the wrong coping skills. It's one thing to recognize what your weaknesses are, yet another to determine how to overcome them. In my case, overcoming my weakness by entering into an affair was not a good coping mechanism and in fact, prolonged my angst and misery for more than a year. Please consider how you wil overcome your abandonment issues in a more productive manner next time that ugly monster rears its head again.

[Aloha123]

I dont think anyone is "bashing". From personal experience, it can be difficult coming here with things in your mind that you feel are good just to have people tell you it's not good enough or keep digging. BH and WW are by far the two most delusional in affairs, they seem to also be the two that struggle here the most.

 

The responses run the gamut from empathy to constructive criticism to tough love to downright hatred and vitriol. So whenever I post I always brace myself for the worst. What I do recognize, though, is that the judgment and disapproval I receive on this board pale in comparison to the responses of those I will/would get in real life when they find out.

 

And just for the record, I would mainly put your own responses in the "constructive criticism" category.

[DKT3]

My point in posting here is I dont want anyone to waste years because they aren't being honest with themselves and/or those who love and depend on them.

 

Most people will successful navigate through infidelity, maybe that looks different, for us it was divorce.

 

WW come here raw and in pain, most empathize with that, the problem is BS are also raw and in pain. Conflicting positions create triggers and you get unproductive comments.

 

It's a bit of a TJ but I really hope that you, NW katkat and others continue to post. My wife rarely posts anymore but she reads a couple times a week.

[heartwhole2]

I agree with everything here except I am NOT surrounded by people with similar morals. My best friend is absolutely horrified by my conduct. But yes I had a very unhealthy childhood which does not justify my behavior but does explain it.

 

I'm glad you have grounded friends that can be a support and example for you.

[heartwhole2]

I strongly disagree. Don't we learn from errors in our life? They may be life-learning lessons to be thankful for. Just because it was not a great situation does not mean it didn't have much character-building value. After all, you don't get character and strength from just good events in life and walking on a bed of roses.

 

It just follows the conclusion that there is nothing good to be learned from bad choices. Non sequitur.

 

She has come a long way and good for her! It's tough to turn off the tap and expect instant changes. These things take time. And even if the AP and the affair were bad, I believe they are a chapter in life to be thankful for. They had their reason and season and were a path to growth.

 

I do agree that we grow and learn from everything that happens in life. But at the same time, being able to express gratitude for the lesson is only possible if one is not empathizing or concerned with the victim(s) of one's choices. If I killed someone's child in a drunk-driving accident, it would certainly be an opportunity for me to learn from my bad choices, but would we ever use the term "gratitude" in reference to a lesson that came at someone else's expense?

[Naivewomen]

@heart whole, I am grateful for the life lessons that have come from it eventhough it was a mistake. I was emotionally immature and not empathetic to anyone else's feelings but my own. Once, I flipped my way of thinking ofcourse with the help of my therapist and LS posters, I now can see that it was at my families expense. Doesn't make me such a great person, I get that. Not looking to win any trophies here. I just want to do better each and everyday. I am committed to making my home a happy one. My H knows I sought professional help because it was time to dig deep and figure myself out. This was not his fault at all. Did I figure out other things that my marriage was lacking or weaker, absolutely. How can i not be grateful after this terrible mistake to turn my life around for the better. Maybe I should be carrying the cross and burden forever, maybe it's what other BS's want to hear but we only live once. I try very hard not to live in a negative dark world. I paid mentally and physically long enough with this trauma in my life!