Giving up on dating is an act of self-preservation

[hotpotato]

No, I'm there to dance. I actually do love dancing. For me, it's like a sport. Some people play baseball. I do ballroom dance. I do competitions where most of the other students there are much older people and no dating prospects but I'm there because I enjoy it.

 

I play guitar in a band. We do shows at pubs and play to like 10 ppl. No girls in the audience. Or maybe we're not that good so they leave halfway through.

 

Other than that, I don't really do much. I don't like bars/clubs because I'm done with that scene. I don't like being around drunk people and I did all that in my 20's and I got nothing out of it.

 

I go to coffee shops ocassionally to do some reading but most girls there are either with someone or they look busy as **** and I don't want to bother them.

 

So it really baffles me when girls keep telling guys to put themselves out there. As far as I'm concerned, I've put in more effort and have taken more risks for putting myself out there than most guys I know. And still....nothing.

 

And what's curious is that most girls who give this advice end up meeting some guy online because he's six foot, white and is conventionally attractive. Whereas a short Asian guy like me won't even get his messages read.

 

You are the make version of hotpotato? I've said similar things here on Is.

 

Where do you think is a good place to meet Women?

We've counted out dance class, gym, coffee shop. Some guys will try to start conversation with a lady while in line at the coffee shop or when the lady is between sets.

There's still workplace & mundane places like the market, post office, park,etc etc

[ZA Dater]

 

Girls generally don't want to have deep, heavy conversations with a guy they just met. They want light-hearted banter with some humor. They want to have fun and the kinda guys who are highly social and good at small talk tend to be fun to be around initially. But these guys also tend to have no depth and no discipline and suck at other aspects of their life. But by the time the girl realizes all this, she has already wasted years of her life with him and has already invested in him and doesn't want to "lose" and so she'll stick with him. All the while, other guys wonder why a quality girl like her is with a loser like him and question that there must be something seriously wrong with them when in fact, the only thing wrong is that they're just more shy/introverted and not good at marketing themselves to the opposite sex. It's not exactly a crime.

 

 

For this reasons I have pretty much given up on dating, my attributes just don't lend themselves to this.

 

 

If you aren't like that you simply cannot compete in that pool and someone will be along shortly to tell me that guys like me should rather try and date people we don't want, that appears to be the answer to anything.

 

 

Another interesting thing is girls who dates these sort of loud mouth guys typically find guys like me a great friend zone rock to support them when things go wrong and they do but never quite wrong enough for them to see the guy for who he is.

 

 

A friend of mine battles like me, in fact he has no interest in dating at all, yet he spent 4 weeks in Thailand and Vietnam surrounded by ladies who found him attractive and interesting, yet here, nobody gives him a second look.

 

 

The problem is you cant actually give up per se but you can change what you look for, for me it was always personality over looks but actually looks might be easier to find than personality. I can get decent enough matches if I manipulate things and bit and have decent enough conversation, I have pretty much realised that getting that is the best I can do so enjoy it for what it is.

 

 

Going out as the shy introvert guy does not work you just get lost in the crowd and barring other introverted ladies you pretty have zero chance with anyone else. UNLESS you simply play economics and accept that potentially you can get that to work for you.

 

 

OP have you ever had a date where you have gone "wow"? Id be interested to know if you have because if you haven't maybe try and find that, simply because I have been there and its a blessing and a curse because once you have had that its all you want and then people don't match up.

[ZA Dater]

You are the make version of hotpotato? I've said similar things here on Is.

 

Where do you think is a good place to meet Women?

We've counted out dance class, gym, coffee shop. Some guys will try to start conversation with a lady while in line at the coffee shop or when the lady is between sets.

There's still workplace & mundane places like the market, post office, park,etc etc

 

 

Maybe there is something wrong with me but I hardly ever see some dude having some random conversation with a lady. A friend of mine is very good at it but he has plenty of charm and eve more confidence.

 

 

I mean sure ok you chat about what? And then what?

[Mike800]

But maybe you're going after girls who don't give a damm about intellectual introspective types.

 

If you're going after really sexy 22-26 year old women then you're going to fail. This is the age range that very hot charismatic girls have tons of guys trying to date them. Trust me on that one. They can get almost anyone they want. Choices are endless.

 

You're never going to be a six foot hot professional baseball player so maybe stop looking for girls who get asked out by guys like that. Your best bet is to assess who likes you and go from there.

 

I’ve dated girls people would say we’re way out of my league and vice versa all this league crap is self defeating.

 

Not every person is just gonna want to get with the hottest person attainable to them.

 

Human beings aren’t robots we sometimes click with people you wouldn’t think we would at first glance and become attracted.

[hotpotato]

Why do women always assume if a man wants a women he’s attracted to but is struggling he’s going after 10’s? Lol. Average or cute women can be shallow too.

 

Women overrate men’s shallowness..Most men are attracted to a very wide variety of women at first sight..Imo women are attracted to way less men physically then vice versa.

 

Women have better natural aesthetics, and men's and women's bodies hold fat differently.

 

Maybe it's not fair, but that's how it is.

 

I'm a woman who inherited a body that is not conventionally attractive. I'd have to work for (or buy lol) things most women just have. It's unfair, but oh well. *shrug*

 

I've said this here before-straight men could learn a bit from gay men. As a group they have lower bmis and are much more likely to hit the gym.

[Normm]

I’ve dated girls people would say we’re way out of my league and vice versa all this league crap is self defeating.

 

Not every person is just gonna want to get with the hottest person attainable to them.

 

Human beings aren’t robots we sometimes click with people you wouldn’t think we would at first glance and become attracted.

 

 

^ This. I've had some hot girlfriends, my exwife when I first met her was close to a 10, yet she was so busy working she didn't get out much. We were fixed up by a mutual friend, hit it off and were together almost 18 years. And I'm an average looking guy, maybe a bit more than that but not some sort of a super stud.

 

 

It can be nothing more than a matter of timing.

[hotpotato]

Maybe there is something wrong with me but I hardly ever see some dude having some random conversation with a lady. A friend of mine is very good at it but he has plenty of charm and eve more confidence.

 

 

I mean sure ok you chat about what? And then what?

 

They usually bring up something unrelated to dating at first. One guy asked me where to find something in a store as pretext lol. Some guys just say hi. Certain groups of men cold approach much more than others in my experience.

[Mike800]

Women have better natural aesthetics, and men's and women's bodies hold fat differently.

 

Maybe it's not fair, but that's how it is.

 

I'm a woman who inherited a body that is not conventionally attractive. I'd have to work for (or buy lol) things most women just have. It's unfair, but oh well. *shrug*

 

I've said this here before-straight men could learn a bit from gay men. As a group they have lower bmis and are much more likely to hit the gym.

 

It’s called having breasts and a nice butt lol either one can make up for a lot of sins with men even if a women has a few pounds on her.

 

As far as natural aesthetics I’m not so sure.Even the hottest women I’ve been with look way different in the morning without makeup. With men what you see is what you get facially

[hotpotato]

It’s called having breasts and a nice butt lol either one can make up for a lot of sins with men even if a women has a few pounds on her.

 

As far as natural aesthetics I’m not so sure.Even the hottest women I’ve been with look way different in the morning without makeup. With men what you see is what you get facially

 

Even without the makeup, I see a lot more beautiful women than men. I definitely see more ladies with sexy bodies. My point was that it's not fair to expect women to want men the way men want women.

[Chilli]

Maybe there is something wrong with me but I hardly ever see some dude having some random conversation with a lady. A friend of mine is very good at it but he has plenty of charm and eve more confidence.

 

 

I mean sure ok you chat about what? And then what?

 

 

Well , funny you should say that.

l had a friend , 40's , he got hurt so bad in his marriage he swears he'll never ever be in a relationship again.

And l believe him too.

So he just screws around now , brings women home from anywhere everywhere. Meets them anywhere , shops, markets, deli , hell he'd meet a chick taking the garbage out in his pj's.

 

Said to him once , how do you meet all these chicks , wtf do you say to them.

l'm not interested for me , not my thing, but couldn't help wonder just wtf though, non the less.

 

He said you know what, l never know what to say but you don't have to say anything anyway.

He said l'll just walk up to her and say , "hello", that's it.

Said he has no clue after that, he just sees if she wants to talk and they'll start chatting and just take it from there.

He was serious , he's actually a fairly shy type of guy too l could just see him standing there all sheepish and puppy dog looking.

 

ps , actually one of my brothers is very similar to him , l've seen him just walk across a room to some total stranger in a pub or somewhere , next minute he's walking out the door with her. 1 night ha came back later and walked out with another one 10 minutes later.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Chilli

[EthanBlack]

See...now that's hilarious! Maybe if you go on dates and make these funny self-deprecating remarks you might do better.

 

You might not think it's funny and you probably wrote that with a sense of sadness but if you learn to laugh at yourself you might start seeing results.

 

I've been told I'm funny by my friends and from women. I'm not always as dark and pessimistic as I am on this forum. When I'm on this forum, I'm seeking answers to my frustrations and to also vent. But I'm not doing this 24/7.

 

But I disagree that sense of humour can win a woman over. At most, she likes being around you and sees you as a friend or even worse, as a close guy friend whom she can vent about troubles with her boyfriend.

[Normm]

But I disagree that sense of humour can win a woman over.

 

 

My credentials: dozens of relationships in my dating life which spans over 40 years, lots of long and short term things including a 16 year marriage and my present 7 year relationship. Countless first dates along the way especially in my post divorce life these past 12 years.

 

From my personal experience, humor opens the doors to a potential dating partner, no doubt about it. Then you charm her with the rest of your positive attributes. Get a woman to laugh and half the battle is over.

 

 

Edited to add- My dating profiles (when active) had a lot of jokes in them including "I'm looking for a woman that turns heads when she enters a room and not because all the guys are looking for the nearest exit". "I make good money but don't naturally assume I'm going to share all of it with you". "When I say I want to meet a woman who loves the outdoors, I don't define the outdoors as the distance from the car to the shopping mall".

 

 

I got lots of good results from my dating profiles.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Normm

[brigit87]

I've been told I'm funny by my friends and from women. I'm not always as dark and pessimistic as I am on this forum. When I'm on this forum, I'm seeking answers to my frustrations and to also vent. But I'm not doing this 24/7.

 

But I disagree that sense of humour can win a woman over. At most, she likes being around you and sees you as a friend or even worse, as a close guy friend whom she can vent about troubles with her boyfriend.

 

That's true. But people love to laugh especially on a first date where tensions can be high. Any man who could make me laugh always got my attention. Sometimes it was friendship but usually it led to romantic feelings.

[brigit87]

 

Edited to add- My dating profiles (when active) had a lot of jokes in them including "I'm looking for a woman that turns heads when she enters a room and not because all the guys are looking for the nearest exit". "I make good money but don't naturally assume I'm going to share all of it with you". "When I say I want to meet a woman who loves the outdoors, I don't define the outdoors as the distance from the car to the shopping mall".

 

 

I got lots of good results from my dating profiles.

 

I bet! That's a great dating profile. LOL:bunny:

[outwithpeterpan]

I've been told I'm funny by my friends and from women. I'm not always as dark and pessimistic as I am on this forum. When I'm on this forum, I'm seeking answers to my frustrations and to also vent. But I'm not doing this 24/7.

 

But I disagree that sense of humour can win a woman over. At most, she likes being around you and sees you as a friend or even worse, as a close guy friend whom she can vent about troubles with her boyfriend.

 

If it’s so perfectly impossible to impress a girl, how does everyone else do it?

[EthanBlack]

If it’s so perfectly impossible to impress a girl, how does everyone else do it?

 

Sense of humour plus adequate looks that fulfill her requirements and a few odd things like you remind her of her father or some man who was kind to her when she was little. Really odd ****.

 

It's really about the overall package. If you're severely lacking in something, you gotta make up for it big time in your other traits and frankly, that's really hard.

 

Say you're unattractive physically but you're funny. That means you have to be really, really ****ing funny in order to compensate. Whereas a guy who is better looking but is also funny will win her over you.

[EthanBlack]

That's true. But people love to laugh especially on a first date where tensions can be high. Any man who could make me laugh always got my attention. Sometimes it was friendship but usually it led to romantic feelings.

 

Yah I agree but sometimes the self-deprecating humor can be seen by a girl as the guy having low confidence even though that's not true. Some people just don't mind poking fun at themselves. Or they're just naturally a little goofy.

 

I've seen girls go for guys who have arrogant humour, the kind where he's literally showboating and poking fun at others' expense and they like that ****.

[ZA Dater]

Sense of humour plus adequate looks that fulfill her requirements and a few odd things like you remind her of her father or some man who was kind to her when she was little. Really odd ****.

 

It's really about the overall package. If you're severely lacking in something, you gotta make up for it big time in your other traits and frankly, that's really hard.

 

Say you're unattractive physically but you're funny. That means you have to be really, really ****ing funny in order to compensate. Whereas a guy who is better looking but is also funny will win her over you.

 

 

 

In my opinion the ability to make her laugh is absolutely vital and this is pretty much why I have just given up on conventional dating, I am not a funny guy and wont ever be. The thing about humour is often its comes with charm and confidence so they are all pretty interlinked.

 

 

At the end of the day it depends how you want to play the game, you can go and throw resources at the dating and you will get better choice because you will be liked for that but its such a fake feeling its not worth the investment.

 

 

I grew up believing being a good person was enough and believed that but its just not true, in fact no premium is attached to that.

 

 

People say "oh you can meet people" actually unless you have charm and humour its basically impossible. I can have the best conversations about mid term elections and world politics but the goofy guy will always win the girl over, not me. I can counteract that and try extoll my virtues but again I wont win.

 

 

Its interesting to observe those who do succeed, try and see why and how and I have spent a lot of time doing this and its all down to reasonable looks, sense of humour and charm allied with confidence.

 

 

Of course I suppose if you get desperate enough there is always mail order.

[Chilli]

If it’s so perfectly impossible to impress a girl, how does everyone else do it?

 

l've never really dated as such just tended to meet the right women somehow, l'm fussy, not interested in wasting my time with just anyone.

but l don't believe in inpressing a girl , really , just eff that, l'm more interested in whether she impresses me.

And l don't believe in this whole internet craze thing of making her laugh , to me that's just bs.

lf you get along you'll both have laughs if that's what you want. She's gotta earn it though and make me laugh too.

like my gf , she's as funny as fk, cracks me up non stop, so was my ex w, but it's natural , just our chemistry.

 

But it just sounds like every guy and his dog are all out there these days just trying to make women laugh , yaknow.

Being different, original, get's noticed , l'd do the opposite just to be different.

And the girls surely must be reading all the guys like a book these days and think ohh Goddd, another one following all these internet lists .

 

But another thing l'd be really wary about with all that anyway, even if it was original , is that women love being entertained. So when your done acting like a total moron , if she didn't like you much in the first place she'll just wonder off later anyway, oh that was fun, byeeee.

l've watched many a guy work like a dog trying to entertain some chick that isn't even interested .

Even fell for it myself back in my teens.

Edited October 25, 2018 by Chilli

[EthanBlack]

 

I grew up believing being a good person was enough and believed that but its just not true, in fact no premium is attached to that.

 

 

Yup, I consider myself a good person and a pretty eligible bachelor. But it doesn't matter because it's not about who you really are but your ability to MARKET yourself. Everything about this world is about marketing and how you sell yourself.

 

A lot of guys, whether through natural charm and confidence, can market themselves really well to women even though they aren't that great of people.

 

I also don't think sense of humour and charm is enough when it comes to women. I've been told I have both but the thing is, with women, there's also a sexual element. If you're not her type, you can make her laugh her insides out but she still can't see herself sleeping with you and you'll be nothing but a friend to her, the close caring guy friend who will hear her problems with her ******* boyfriend.

[Chilli]

And usually with someone else , that didn't do a thing or that unbeknown to the clown trying to entertain her, she's been eying off all night !

[elaine567]

It is not really about some contrived "make her laugh" script, full of internet gleaned jokes and one liners churned out, it is all about making a connection, finding humour in the stuff that just happened, witty repostes and off the cuff comments.

Banter and quick thinking personalised funny comments can be hilarious, people tend to bat off each other, that is how it should work.

Few women want to entertained 24/7 by a stand up comedian...

Yes the odd formal joke,(told well or badly even) thrown in can be funny too, but the more natural two way stuff is often way better.

[elaine567]

I also don't think sense of humour and charm is enough when it comes to women. I've been told I have both but the thing is, with women, there's also a sexual element. If you're not her type, you can make her laugh her insides out but she still can't see herself sleeping with you and you'll be nothing but a friend to her, the close caring guy friend who will hear her problems with her ******* boyfriend.

 

You are correct. Dating is fundamentally about sex for most.

Not passing the first hurdle "Can I sleep with this guy? IS very important, why wouldn't it be?

Most people are out dating to find a sexual partner, short term or long term.

Short term - sexual attraction in some form is paramount.

Long term - the thought of having sex for 10, 20 30, 40, 50+ years with someone you were never attracted to in the first place is not something many want to do.

[EthanBlack]

You are correct. Dating is fundamentally about sex for most.

Not passing the first hurdle "Can I sleep with this guy? IS very important, why wouldn't it be?

Most people are out dating to find a sexual partner, short term or long term.

Short term - sexual attraction in some form is paramount.

Long term - the thought of having sex for 10, 20 30, 40, 50+ years with someone you were never attracted to in the first place is not something many want to do.

 

Then why don't women just say that? Instead, they keep telling guys like "make her laugh", "take her out to do something fun and relaxing but also exciting", the list goes on, etc.

 

A guy can do all those things but if she doesn't have that primal physical attraction toward him, it's all for nothing. But then this guy will be called a piece of **** for only being interested in women for the sex and not cause he cares about her.

[brigit87]

Of course I suppose if you get desperate enough there is always mail order.

 

See, that's a riot. You guys are funny you just need to work on it. Yeah don't try to tell girls about massively intellectual stuff they'll probably just stop listening and nod appropriately to be polite.

 

Here's the formula:

 

Make them laugh, tell them they're pretty and always pick up the check.

 

 

(It's that simple.)