Giving up on dating is an act of self-preservation

[ZA Dater]

From what you've written elsewhere, when you speak during a date you get nothing but confused looks and misunderstood comments.

 

 

 

You might be commanding the table but the only one who has a clue what you're trying to say, is you.

 

 

 

Well no, not my problem most people are apathetic.

[Chilli]

Blame biology if you want something to blame it on' date=' or socialism, or polite society, but I am sure many people feel the way you do. I know I have, before, as well, but my exclusions were based on social class and not so much the physical. I had some of the hottest young men in high school ask me out or like me as a crush, but I was very, very shy despite my apparent attractive physical qualities. I never let anyone know I was autistic and I viewed the world through my own eyes which is an intensely private and closed off view from the rest of the worlds. I saw the inside of people and did not notice their looks until a friend of mine pointed out that I dated a quasimoto looking fellow who was not in our school and a skinny, dorky, surfer who wrote poetry and strummed a guitar to his shrill singing. I didnt care about looks. I saw how happy they were with themselves and it was not based on their looks or outward appearance. Their happiness and laughter was infectuous and appealing. I enjoy a good looking man nowadays but I could ultimately care less what the person looks like on the outside if I am taken in by their inner charm and lightheartedness.[/quote']

 

 

 

Haaa , you sound a lot like me.

l see stuff always have , no one gets it never have.

l've learnt over years to just be comfortable with the everyday me, it is me, part, it's not fake , and it gets me through without hassles and the heavy mind, the other side l only share with someone very very special or the odd poerson that can see it, it doesn't fit an everyday world and it's mine , don't want to share it anyway.

 

So l see the inside at a glance as much as the outside , l look for the inside and sometimes v lightly point out stuff like that here when people are having troubles but they don't seem to understand and it always just comes back to attraction.

[Dodgersfan11]

That's good, be true to yourself and give up on dating for good. I'm in the process of doing that myself. To avoid feeling rejected, and having months of depression and dwelling why a man didn't want me. Its been 4 freaking months since this guy broke it off for me and I still can't move on. Because hell, you could be dating someone and keep worrying if your partner is going to "fall in love" with someone else, lost interest, it happens.

[hotpotato]

Back on topic, I've given up dating for self preservation. I've more or less cut men out of my life.

 

I admit I didn't date in high school. I missed out on a lot of dating experience. No one asked me out except one guy who did so bc of a dare basically.

 

I don't miss many of the things I had to deal with. If i want a guy to get to know me, I don't need dating for that.

 

Struggling with dating doesn't mean someone is unattractive. I get called beautiful by men and women yet I can't keep a man.

[EthanBlack]

ZA Dater hit it on the spot.

 

It's always the loudmouth, shallow guy who has a ****ty dead end job and no accomplishments who girls end up dating.

 

A guy who is quiet and may not be good at small talk but he can be the most accomplished, cultured person with a good job, good friends and family and most caring guy but he won't even be noticed by women.

 

A lot of guys are modest and aren't good at "selling" themselves. Sometimes it's a cultural trait too. A lot of Asian cultures prize modesty and it's common to even deny that you have a positive trait.

[EthanBlack]

Struggling with dating doesn't mean someone is unattractive. I get called beautiful by men and women yet I can't keep a man.

 

I disagree. Even women who are attractive physically but are extremely shy and introverted get suitors. It blows my mind because if a guy is shy and introverted even though he has a ton of good qualities, he gets NO women and he has to force himself out in uncomfortable social situations in order to have any chance at all.

 

I have no idea why you can't keep a man but it's possible that you may need to actually take initiative with the type of guys you find attractive. There are a lot of good guys out there who are just shy/quiet and don't get noticed. The guys asking you out are the loudmouth, low quality guys who have nothing to lose and are desperate to find any girl they find attractive without considering their inner qualities.

[hotpotato]

I disagree. Even women who are attractive physically but are extremely shy and introverted get suitors. It blows my mind because if a guy is shy and introverted even though he has a ton of good qualities, he gets NO women and he has to force himself out in uncomfortable social situations in order to have any chance at all.

 

I have no idea why you can't keep a man but it's possible that you may need to actually take initiative with the type of guys you find attractive. There are a lot of good guys out there who are just shy/quiet and don't get noticed. The guys asking you out are the loudmouth, low quality guys who have nothing to lose and are desperate to find any girl they find attractive without considering their inner qualities.

 

Well, I don't know about that. There's a huge difference between a suitor and a sex partner. The latter is very easy to find which brings it's own issues.

[EthanBlack]

Well, I don't know about that. There's a huge difference between a suitor and a sex partner. The latter is very easy to find which brings it's own issues.

 

Yah but shy/quiet guys who are good and sincere and are looking for a real relationship get NOTHING. Do you realize that?

 

If a guy doesn't have an extroverted, socially popular personality, he literally gets NOTHING. No matter how good of a guy he is.

 

This leads him to believe there is something wrong with him and all the self-doubt creeps in and his self-confidence deteriorates further.

 

It took me years to realize that there is nothing wrong with me. And that I'm just not good at marketing myself. I'm not good at "going out" and making small talk. I'm bad at flirting because I think I'm bothering the girl.

 

It took me forever that I am not flawed for being the above and that I am a quality person.

 

I am improving my ability to make small talk and to make light-hearted, casual conversation with people in general and I can already see my prospects are improving. It's amazing how much smiling at others and talking about positive light-hearted things can do.

 

Girls generally don't want to have deep, heavy conversations with a guy they just met. They want light-hearted banter with some humor. They want to have fun and the kinda guys who are highly social and good at small talk tend to be fun to be around initially. But these guys also tend to have no depth and no discipline and suck at other aspects of their life. But by the time the girl realizes all this, she has already wasted years of her life with him and has already invested in him and doesn't want to "lose" and so she'll stick with him. All the while, other guys wonder why a quality girl like her is with a loser like him and question that there must be something seriously wrong with them when in fact, the only thing wrong is that they're just more shy/introverted and not good at marketing themselves to the opposite sex. It's not exactly a crime.

Edited October 23, 2018 by EthanBlack

[Mardelis]

Yah but shy/quiet guys who are good and sincere and are looking for a real relationship get NOTHING. Do you realize that?

 

 

That's cause they're shy so no one knows how good and sincere they are other than themself of course.

 

 

If a guy doesn't have an extroverted, socially popular personality, he literally gets NOTHING. No matter how good of a guy he is.

 

 

I've never been a very social guy, only had one or two friends during any period in my life, never in the "popular crowd" and I am no extrovert, that's for damn sure. Yet I've never had a problem getting a girlfriend, I've had countless relationships, including an 18 year marriage and am presently with my girlfriend for almost 7 years. I've never been single more than a few months since I started dating over 40 years ago. It's always been me, and a woman and one or two guy friends and that's it. So your theory doesn't hold up.

[EthanBlack]

That's cause they're shy so no one knows how good and sincere they are other than themself of course.

 

 

 

 

 

I've never been a very social guy, only had one or two friends during any period in my life, never in the "popular crowd" and I am no extrovert, that's for damn sure. Yet I've never had a problem getting a girlfriend, I've had countless relationships, including an 18 year marriage and am presently with my girlfriend for almost 7 years. I've never been single more than a few months since I started dating over 40 years ago. It's always been me, and a woman and one or two guy friends and that's it. So your theory doesn't hold up.

 

How do you meet these women if you don't enjoy going out and socializing?

 

Some people are lucky that they are introduced to women through friends or they work in an industry that has a lot of women.

 

I work in an industry that is predominantly male. My friends also tend to be in this area and don't know a ton of women. So for me, meeting women organically is very hard. As a result, I have no choice but to go out and SEEK social situations that involve women. And that's hard if you're not an extroverted guy.

[Mardelis]

How do you meet these women if you don't enjoy going out and socializing?

 

 

My exwife and I met through a mutual acquaintance, aka "blind date". All or most of the rest have been through dating sites. Except for the college years, most of them were meeting in bars. Even though I was out at bars it was with one or two friends, not "out socializing" with a group or whatever.

[EthanBlack]

My exwife and I met through a mutual acquaintance, aka "blind date". All or most of the rest have been through dating sites.

 

You must be conventionally attractive then cause I never get any replies for online dating. I have a great profile with good pictures and everything and never a single damn reply. Cause I'm short and average looking.

 

Yeah so for shy/quiet guys, online dating is great....only if you're NOT 5'5, average looking and Asian.

[Garcon1986]

If a woman wants to pick a guy who she is attracted to, is that automatically shallow? Many have said here that if there is no physical attraction at all, the dating isn't going to work. These women are doing you a favor by not wasting your time. A man has a right to seek out who he is attracted to as well.

 

You are definitely hard to argue with Ethan. But really, you can't think of a single activity where single women are in abundance? I'll repeat myself again, you can't win every single fight you play in. You can't think of a handful of your best accomplishments and seek out women who admire those accomplishments? I'm surrounded by married people, in Mississippi, the worst possible place for Asian dating, and I still can seek out social events. I've been rejected endlessly just like you have.

 

Are you going to keep on grumbling about how other men have it better? That doesn't get you to a cute girl any quicker. Many of your concerns are true but we can't change the entire world for our dating benefit. Bottom line is women are generally much better at social skills than men of the same age, and can see negativity from a long way away, and then play all sorts of social tricks to shoot you down if you attempt to approach. One day you need to try a different approach to life. You've had women beat down your ego, I get it, me too, I've had women beat down my ego mercilessly. They couldn't care less. Are you going to keep on grumbling?

[EthanBlack]

If a woman wants to pick a guy who she is attracted to, is that automatically shallow? Many have said here that if there is no physical attraction at all, the dating isn't going to work. These women are doing you a favor by not wasting your time. A man has a right to seek out who he is attracted to as well.

 

You are definitely hard to argue with Ethan. But really, you can't think of a single activity where single women are in abundance? I'll repeat myself again, you can't win every single fight you play in. You can't think of a handful of your best accomplishments and seek out women who admire those accomplishments? I'm surrounded by married people, in Mississippi, the worst possible place for Asian dating, and I still can seek out social events. I've been rejected endlessly just like you have.

 

Are you going to keep on grumbling about how other men have it better? That doesn't get you to a cute girl any quicker. Many of your concerns are true but we can't change the entire world for our dating benefit. Bottom line is women are generally much better at social skills than men of the same age, and can see negativity from a long way away, and then play all sorts of social tricks to shoot you down if you attempt to approach. One day you need to try a different approach to life. You've had women beat down your ego, I get it, me too, I've had women beat down my ego mercilessly. They couldn't care less. Are you going to keep on grumbling?

 

Things are already improving for me. I've noticed that all this effort I've put into self-improvement such as doing ballroom dancing, improving as a guitarist, and dressing better and walking with better posture has actually made me feel more confident......BUT...the biggest thing is just being more happy when meeting new people.

 

I practice doing warm, genuine smiles at people. I talk more about light-hearted, casual topics. I ask people about themselves. I try to tell a couple jokes.

 

And that has improved things A LOT. Women for some reason love being around a happy, positive guy. And the strange thing is, when I act in this way, somehow I actually do feel happier inside.

 

But a part of me is still bitter at all the rejections and humiliations of my past experiences. It's hard to wipe the slate clean.

[BaileyB]

Things are already improving for me. I've noticed that all this effort I've put into self-improvement such as doing ballroom dancing, improving as a guitarist, and dressing better and walking with better posture has actually made me feel more confident......BUT...the biggest thing is just being more happy when meeting new people.

 

I practice doing warm, genuine smiles at people. I talk more about light-hearted, casual topics. I ask people about themselves. I try to tell a couple jokes.

 

And that has improved things A LOT. Women for some reason love being around a happy, positive guy. And the strange thing is, when I act in this way, somehow I actually do feel happier inside.

 

This is it. Absolutely.

 

Of course, a woman loves to be around a man who is happy and positive. Men are the same, are they not? Would you date a woman who was pessamistic, negative, complained about everything, and was miserable all the time. Of course you wouldn't. There is nothing attractive about that kind of behavior.

 

I heard it said once that a woman likes being with a man who makes her feel good about herself, and I would add - the man makes her feel good about being with him. Smiling, allowing the woman to feel safe and relaxed with you, keeping things light and easygoing, using humor to flirt and have some fun together - these things are enjoyable for both individuals. And, these are learned skills... They don't come easy to everyone. If you are working on developing these skills and seeing some positive results - both for yourself and with dating - good on you! Keep trying, it only takes one...

[EthanBlack]

This is it. Absolutely.

 

Of course, a woman loves to be around a man who is happy and positive. Men are the same, are they not? Would you date a woman who was pessamistic, negative, complained about everything, and was miserable all the time. Of course you wouldn't. There is nothing attractive about that kind of behavior.

 

I heard it said once that a woman likes being with a man who makes her feel good about herself, and I would add - the man makes her feel good about being with him. Smiling, allowing the woman to feel safe and relaxed with you, keeping things light and easygoing, using humor to flirt and have some fun together - these things are enjoyable for both individuals. And, these are learned skills... They don't come easy to everyone. If you are working on developing these skills and seeing some positive results - both for yourself and with dating - good on you! Keep trying, it only takes one...

 

Yah I've always been a somewhat dark, introverted type. But the thing is, I've always had GOOD intentions with the girls I've dated or attempted to date. I've always been genuine.

 

I've seen guys who are funny, light-hearted and extroverted and naturally good at flirting get wonderful, cute girls but these guys have NO substance. They're not well-read or well-travelled. They can't hold down a job. All they know how to do is to flirt with women and talk about nothing and make shallow, ****ty jokes. And women fall for this ****....all the ****ing time.

 

Meanwhile, I've tried hard to make something of myself in this life and I've gotten nothing but humiliating rejections.

[brigit87]

Yah I've always been a somewhat dark, introverted type. But the thing is, I've always had GOOD intentions with the girls I've dated or attempted to date. I've always been genuine.

 

I've seen guys who are funny, light-hearted and extroverted and naturally good at flirting get wonderful, cute girls but these guys have NO substance. They're not well-read or well-travelled. They can't hold down a job. All they know how to do is to flirt with women and talk about nothing and make shallow, ****ty jokes. And women fall for this ****....all the ****ing time.

 

Meanwhile, I've tried hard to make something of myself in this life and I've gotten nothing but humiliating rejections.

 

But maybe you're going after girls who don't give a damm about intellectual introspective types.

 

If you're going after really sexy 22-26 year old women then you're going to fail. This is the age range that very hot charismatic girls have tons of guys trying to date them. Trust me on that one. They can get almost anyone they want. Choices are endless.

 

You're never going to be a six foot hot professional baseball player so maybe stop looking for girls who get asked out by guys like that. Your best bet is to assess who likes you and go from there.

[hotpotato]

Yah but shy/quiet guys who are good and sincere and are looking for a real relationship get NOTHING. Do you realize that?

 

Do you realize some if the things women go through? It's not a blessing to be treated like a piece of meat, lied to, etc.

 

If a guy doesn't have an extroverted, socially popular personality, he literally gets NOTHING. No matter how good of a guy he is.

 

Well, then he'll have to put himself out there more.

 

This leads him to believe there is something wrong with him and all the self-doubt creeps in and his self-confidence deteriorates further.

 

It took me years to realize that there is nothing wrong with me. And that I'm just not good at marketing myself. I'm not good at "going out" and making small talk. I'm bad at flirting because I think I'm bothering the girl.

 

It took me forever that I am not flawed for being the above and that I am a quality person.

 

I am improving my ability to make small talk and to make light-hearted, casual conversation with people in general and I can already see my prospects are improving. It's amazing how much smiling at others and talking about positive light-hearted things can do.

 

Girls generally don't want to have deep, heavy conversations with a guy they just met. They want light-hearted banter with some humor. They want to have fun and the kinda guys who are highly social and good at small talk tend to be fun to be around initially. But these guys also tend to have no depth and no discipline and suck at other aspects of their life. But by the time the girl realizes all this, she has already wasted years of her life with him and has already invested in him and doesn't want to "lose" and so she'll stick with him. All the while, other guys wonder why a quality girl like her is with a loser like him and question that there must be something seriously wrong with them when in fact, the only thing wrong is that they're just more shy/introverted and not good at marketing themselves to the opposite sex. It's not exactly a crime.

 

Many of the things you say are true for more and women. It's not only men who struggle, it's not only women who like small talk.

[outwithpeterpan]

Yah but shy/quiet guys who are good and sincere and are looking for a real relationship get NOTHING. Do you realize that?

 

If a guy doesn't have an extroverted, socially popular personality, he literally gets NOTHING. No matter how good of a guy he is.

 

This leads him to believe there is something wrong with him and all the self-doubt creeps in and his self-confidence deteriorates further.

 

It took me years to realize that there is nothing wrong with me. And that I'm just not good at marketing myself. I'm not good at "going out" and making small talk. I'm bad at flirting because I think I'm bothering the girl.

 

It took me forever that I am not flawed for being the above and that I am a quality person.

 

I am improving my ability to make small talk and to make light-hearted, casual conversation with people in general and I can already see my prospects are improving. It's amazing how much smiling at others and talking about positive light-hearted things can do.

 

Girls generally don't want to have deep, heavy conversations with a guy they just met. They want light-hearted banter with some humor. They want to have fun and the kinda guys who are highly social and good at small talk tend to be fun to be around initially. But these guys also tend to have no depth and no discipline and suck at other aspects of their life. But by the time the girl realizes all this, she has already wasted years of her life with him and has already invested in him and doesn't want to "lose" and so she'll stick with him. All the while, other guys wonder why a quality girl like her is with a loser like him and question that there must be something seriously wrong with them when in fact, the only thing wrong is that they're just more shy/introverted and not good at marketing themselves to the opposite sex. It's not exactly a crime.

 

OK. So market yourself. Make small talk. Flirt. Be extroverted. Smile.

 

If someone wants to to be good at basketball, they learn how to shoot. They don't sit at home and complain about how its unfair that they can't be good at basketball without shooting.

 

Sorry if this seems harsh, I'm just trying to help you. Who is perfect anyway? I'm friggin BALD and I'm only 27. Yet there's pretty girls who'll look past that because I can charm them a bit. I don't see why you can't do the same thing. Especially when you have interests that are so transferable to flirting like partner dancing and the guitar.

[EthanBlack]

Well, then he'll have to put himself out there more.

 

Well girls need to put themselves out there too. If a guy puts himself out there in an attempt to meet more women but those women don't do the same, then you end up with these sausage fest social situations.

 

Also, guys have other responsibiliites too. In fact, it's actually a lot of the good guys who have good careers and are responsible who have less time to put themselves out there due to their work responsibilities. It's the deadbeat loser guys who have all the time in the world to hit on girls like a hobby and so that's why you see all these lesser guys having success.

 

It's easy to just place all the blame on guys. But dating is hard. And guys are vulnerable and get hurt too.

[hotpotato]

Well girls need to put themselves out there too. If a guy puts himself out there in an attempt to meet more women but those women don't do the same, then you end up with these sausage fest social situations.

 

Also, guys have other responsibiliites too. In fact, it's actually a lot of the good guys who have good careers and are responsible who have less time to put themselves out there due to their work responsibilities. It's the deadbeat loser guys who have all the time in the world to hit on girls like a hobby and so that's why you see all these lesser guys having success.

 

It's easy to just place all the blame on guys. But dating is hard. And guys are vulnerable and get hurt too.

 

No one said nen didnt have responsibilities. Also, plenty of men ehobeork a lot still manage to put themselves out there and meet women, whether it be st the gym, at clubs, online, or wherever.

[EthanBlack]

No one said nen didnt have responsibilities. Also, plenty of men ehobeork a lot still manage to put themselves out there and meet women, whether it be st the gym, at clubs, online, or wherever.

 

This is where things fall apart when you tell people to "put themselves out there". Where exactly?

 

- Gyms are a big no-no. You don't approach girls at the gym cause a lot of girls are already uncomfortable being gawked at while they're exercising. Also, if a girl rejects you, you're gonna have to risk keep seeing her again. So it's awkward.

 

- Online doesn't work if you're not a six foot white guy. If you're a short Asian guy like me, it doesn't matter how great your profile is or pictures of you are, the fact that you're Asian and you're short is gonna make girls not even consider your pr ofile.

 

- Clubs? Hope you don't mean nightclubs. Most of them are sausage fests and the two nightclubs that have a lot of women tend to be super pricey and very exclusive and catering to a specific crowd.

 

What does that leave?

 

Luckily, I'm an artistic guy. I do ballroom dancing. Lots of women love to dance. And it's an easy way to get to know a girl organically. The only downside? You actually have to LEARN to dance and it's not easy. It's very technical and it takes YEARS to master. Not a lot of guys have the stomach for that.

 

There simply aren't a lot of opportunities and options out there. I find that a lot of girls just keep telling guys to "put themselves out there" but girls aren't doing that either. A lot of girls just rely on online dating which works for them but for a lot of guys, online dating simply isn't an option.

[hotpotato]

This is where things fall apart when you tell people to "put themselves out there". Where exactly?

 

- Gyms are a big no-no. You don't approach girls at the gym cause a lot of girls are already uncomfortable being gawked at while they're exercising. Also, if a girl rejects you, you're gonna have to risk keep seeing her again. So it's awkward.

 

- Online doesn't work if you're not a six foot white guy. If you're a short Asian guy like me, it doesn't matter how great your profile is or pictures of you are, the fact that you're Asian and you're short is gonna make girls not even consider your pr ofile.

 

- Clubs? Hope you don't mean nightclubs. Most of them are sausage fests and the two nightclubs that have a lot of women tend to be super pricey and very exclusive and catering to a specific crowd.

 

What does that leave?

 

Luckily, I'm an artistic guy. I do ballroom dancing. Lots of women love to dance. And it's an easy way to get to know a girl organically. The only downside? You actually have to LEARN to dance and it's not easy. It's very technical and it takes YEARS to master. Not a lot of guys have the stomach for that.

 

There simply aren't a lot of opportunities and options out there. I find that a lot of girls just keep telling guys to "put themselves out there" but girls aren't doing that either. A lot of girls just rely on online dating which works for them but for a lot of guys, online dating simply isn't an option.

Good, you're artistic. Maybe you will meet a girl at a dance. What else do you like to do where you can meet Women?

 

Sometimes when you really, really want someone, you can put off bad vibes. Maybe a break from all the worry would do you well.

[EthanBlack]

Good, you're artistic. Maybe you will meet a girl at a dance. What else do you like to do where you can meet Women?

 

Sometimes when you really, really want someone, you can put off bad vibes. Maybe a break from all the worry would do you well.

 

No, I'm there to dance. I actually do love dancing. For me, it's like a sport. Some people play baseball. I do ballroom dance. I do competitions where most of the other students there are much older people and no dating prospects but I'm there because I enjoy it.

 

I play guitar in a band. We do shows at pubs and play to like 10 ppl. No girls in the audience. Or maybe we're not that good so they leave halfway through.

 

Other than that, I don't really do much. I don't like bars/clubs because I'm done with that scene. I don't like being around drunk people and I did all that in my 20's and I got nothing out of it.

 

I go to coffee shops ocassionally to do some reading but most girls there are either with someone or they look busy as **** and I don't want to bother them.

 

So it really baffles me when girls keep telling guys to put themselves out there. As far as I'm concerned, I've put in more effort and have taken more risks for putting myself out there than most guys I know. And still....nothing.

 

And what's curious is that most girls who give this advice end up meeting some guy online because he's six foot, white and is conventionally attractive. Whereas a short Asian guy like me won't even get his messages read.

[brigit87]

I play guitar in a band. We do shows at pubs and play to like 10 ppl. No girls in the audience. Or maybe we're not that good so they leave halfway through.

 

 

See...now that's hilarious! Maybe if you go on dates and make these funny self-deprecating remarks you might do better.

 

You might not think it's funny and you probably wrote that with a sense of sadness but if you learn to laugh at yourself you might start seeing results.