Dilemma (need to date again....)

[No_Go]

Shouldn't it read you can't stand YOUR family stuff?

 

You're on a roll today, you generalize everything.

 

Yeah We lost a big client at work, I got some other bad news - I guess that keeps me rolling :lmao:

 

Family stuff - I guess I don't know how to handle well people very close to their family because it is hard to explain to them how I feel about mine. Otherwise - I usually become like a puppy in the presence of someone's mom/dad - I love the company of older people hah. But then when the time to reciprocate comes and I have nothing to offer - it makes me feel super uncomfortable...

[clia]

YES! I maybe messing up my definitions - I'm mixing up cheesy and romantic.

that type of cookie-cutter romance is not interesting to me - Likewise!

 

I think a guy trying to slow dance with me on a hiking trail would be about the cheesiest thing ever.

 

I think it would be very helpful if you could explain what you mean by romantic, when you say you hate romantic gestures and/or romance.

[Gaeta]

YES! I maybe messing up my definitions - I'm mixing up cheesy and romantic.

that type of cookie-cutter romance is not interesting to me - Likewise!

 

That easily fixed.

 

In a profile give example of things you enjoy in a relaitonship, spontaneity, affection, kindness, tenderness. And a list of things you can't stand: chocolate boxes in the shape of hearts, petals of roses on your bed, poems in your lunch boxes.

 

I think a lot of men would feel releived to date a woman that don't expect a bunch of cheeziness at very specific dates.

[Gaeta]

Y- I usually become like a puppy in the presence of someone's mom/dad - I love the company of older people hah. But then when the time to reciprocate comes and I have nothing to offer - it makes me feel super uncomfortable...

 

Depends what has been your experience so far with the in-laws.

 

A lot of in-laws are just cool and easy going and fun to be around so it doesn't feel like a task. I remember a guy my daughter dated, when they had nothing planned he'd always say Let's go to your mom lol

[No_Go]

I think a guy trying to slow dance with me on a hiking trail would be about the cheesiest thing ever.

 

I think it would be very helpful if you could explain what you mean by romantic, when you say you hate romantic gestures and/or romance.

 

I guess he was not doing it for me, just sharing a part of his life that he enjoys. That's what made in un-romantic (i.e. nice).

 

Regarding my definition: if someone is authentic and is not doing whatever-action-he-is-doing to please me (i.e. appear better in my eyes) - to me is all good.

 

The thing is most people are playing games (to secure a girlfriend, job, friend, social status... you name it) - and it is very transparent they are doing it for that purpose. That's what i dislike.

[RecentChange]

Your family has a lot more influence on forming your opinions than I think you give credit NoGo.

 

It's not that you don't like being around a healthy family dynamic, it's your baggage that makes you feel akward. Ya gotta let it go!

 

My mother's family is a total S*** show. And I used to think I hated "family stuff". But my dad remarried a lovely, successful, bright, well adjusted woman from a wonderful family. And once I got over my akwardness I learned to enjoy "family stuff" - my sister went through the same thing when she married into a healthy family dynamic. And in my experience, healthy, happy LOVING families invite new loved ones in with open arms. They don't judge, they share their love.

 

There is that L word again.

 

Your parents had a terrible dynamic and never modeled love for you. Sounds like your siblings continued the cycle of unhealthy relationships.

 

My dad married my step mom for love. Not for convenience, not because of social pressure. Not for reproduction. Not for financial security. Not because of fear of loneliness - because they were both very successful and fulfilled in life when they met. But they fell in love - and solidified it.

 

And they created a model for me and my siblings.

 

All of us are married. All of us have been with our partners for 15-25 years now. All of us married because of love.

 

I am very thankful for my dad and stepmom, and the type of relationship they modeled for us.

 

In the past I tried to make you understand a "screaming orgasm" and gave up in fusteration - said it was the same as trying to describe the color of a magnificent sky to a blind man.

 

I feel exactly the same when it comes to love based relationships - you simply do not seem capable of seeing what my eyes see.

[No_Go]

Taking notes for my next profile

 

That easily fixed.

 

In a profile give example of things you enjoy in a relaitonship, spontaneity, affection, kindness, tenderness. And a list of things you can't stand: chocolate boxes in the shape of hearts, petals of roses on your bed, poems in your lunch boxes.

 

I think a lot of men would feel releived to date a woman that don't expect a bunch of cheeziness at very specific dates.

[No_Go]

Depends what has been your experience so far with the in-laws.

 

A lot of in-laws are just cool and easy going and fun to be around so it doesn't feel like a task. I remember a guy my daughter dated, when they had nothing planned he'd always say Let's go to your mom lol

 

True. I guess I have had pretty positive experiences with the parents of my bf-s. The family of my first bf was Latin American and I don't speak any Spanish so we were communicating with body language for the time I stayed with them... And yet his mom and I cried when I departed If her son was as nice as she was - I'd have been still dating him - I miss this people dearly. My last bf had very strained relationship with his step-mother. For some reason though I instantly connected with her and we've had great time together, even improving his relationship with her.

 

It is the guys that made my life harder by expecting me then to bring them to my own family> It is a barrier that I have yet to find a way to break...

[Gaeta]

True. I guess I have had pretty positive experiences with the parents of my bf-s. The family of my first bf was Latin American and I don't speak any Spanish so we were communicating with body language for the time I stayed with them... And yet his mom and I cried when I departed If her son was as nice as she was - I'd have been still dating him - I miss this people dearly. My last bf had very strained relationship with his step-mother. For some reason though I instantly connected with her and we've had great time together, even improving his relationship with her.

I am happy to read you had positive experience with your in-laws and were able to build positive connections.

 

It is the guys that made my life harder by expecting me then to bring them to my own family> It is a barrier that I have yet to find a way to break...

So we're back at the blockages created by your family.

[No_Go]

RC - it is true, for my sister and I it has always been a struggle to be around healthy families. NOT because we don't get along with them - quite the opposite. I personally get attached to the parents of bf-s / friends ver easily, maybe because I miss this type of love (I said it - the L word ).

 

The thing is a person from a healthy family can't understand my own family dynamics making it an uphill battle to explain myself to them all the f*cking time. Even a therapist I spoke to told me to find someone who can appreciate my own family situation instead of trying to drill into me that I need to do what they're doing (like being super close, sharing etc). It is not going to happen for me and I ****need**** someone that is cool with this, or at least is capable of appreciating that we'll be different in that aspect.

 

Your family has a lot more influence on forming your opinions than I think you give credit NoGo.

 

It's not that you don't like being around a healthy family dynamic, it's your baggage that makes you feel akward. Ya gotta let it go!

 

My mother's family is a total S*** show. And I used to think I hated "family stuff". But my dad remarried a lovely, successful, bright, well adjusted woman from a wonderful family. And once I got over my akwardness I learned to enjoy "family stuff" - my sister went through the same thing when she married into a healthy family dynamic. And in my experience, healthy, happy LOVING families invite new loved ones in with open arms. They don't judge, they share their love.

 

There is that L word again.

 

Your parents had a terrible dynamic and never modeled love for you. Sounds like your siblings continued the cycle of unhealthy relationships.

 

My dad married my step mom for love. Not for convenience, not because of social pressure. Not for reproduction. Not for financial security. Not because of fear of loneliness - because they were both very successful and fulfilled in life when they met. But they fell in love - and solidified it.

 

And they created a model for me and my siblings.

 

All of us are married. All of us have been with our partners for 15-25 years now. All of us married because of love.

 

I am very thankful for my dad and stepmom, and the type of relationship they modeled for us.

 

In the past I tried to make you understand a "screaming orgasm" and gave up in fusteration - said it was the same as trying to describe the color of a magnificent sky to a blind man.

 

I feel exactly the same when it comes to love based relationships - you simply do not seem capable of seeing what my eyes see.

[No_Go]

So we're back at the blockages created by your family.

 

So that's why I'm reluctant bringing a kid into the world as a single parent or in an unhealthy relationship... It's too bad family affects us in adulthood (and trust me - I've gone a loooong way to be at the spot where I'm now - it was exponentially worse 10 years ago when I was living close to them...).

[RecentChange]

RC - it is true, for my sister and I it has always been a struggle to be around healthy families. NOT because we don't get along with them - quite the opposite. I personally get attached to the parents of bf-s / friends ver easily, maybe because I miss this type of love (I said it - the L word ).

 

The thing is a person from a healthy family can't understand my own family dynamics making it an uphill battle to explain myself to them all the f*cking time. Even a therapist I spoke to told me to find someone who can appreciate my own family situation instead of trying to drill into me that I need to do what they're doing (like being super close, sharing etc). It is not going to happen for me and I ****need**** someone that is cool with this, or at least is capable of appreciating that we'll be different in that aspect.

 

Ohhh okay I am with you there.

 

My husband's family is a mess. So I GET IT. And he understands struggles I have had with my blood family - and he has had to adjust, and now has learned to enjoy the love, support and comrodery of my step mom's family.

 

My sister and brother married into "good" families - but they understood. They were invited into the new families but never pressured to incorporate our dysfunctional side of the family.

 

I have been with my husband for 16 years - his parents never met mine - can you believe that?! I think the same is true for my bro and sis. My mom's side of the family was too much of a disaster to incorporate. But they showed love, compassion and empathy and never pushed the subject.

[No_Go]

Ohhh okay I am with you there.

 

My husband's family is a mess. So I GET IT. And he understands struggles I have had with my blood family - and he has had to adjust, and now has learned to enjoy the love, support and comrodery of my step mom's family.

 

My sister and brother married into "good" families - but they understood. They were invited into the new families but never pressured to incorporate our dysfunctional side of the family.

 

I have been with my husband for 16 years - his parents never met mine - can you believe that?! I think the same is true for my bro and sis. My mom's side of the family was too much of a disaster to incorporate. But they showed love, compassion and empathy and never pushed the subject.

 

Yeah... you're lucky you and your siblings found empathetic partners not pushing the subject. It is pretty terrible to be pushed on something that is not really in my control.

I have been with my husband for 16 years - his parents never met mine - can you believe that?! Yeah - my sister's partner never introduced her to his mother - although my sister and him have a child together. I was wondering what's the deal - turned that my sister managed to find a guy with even more disfunctional family than ours (which I thought is a mission impossible ). I wasn't that lucky - my ex really traumatized me with the family demands, one of the main reasons I feel so much better now that I'm single and nobody has this expectations of me...

[RecentChange]

Sorry to hear about your ex NoGo.

 

And yes we were all lucky to have empathic partners...

 

But that is also because we were all IN LOVE.

 

Our partners are empathic to our needs, to what we have been through. They would never want to put us in a bad situation. To make us feel uncomfortable about what we have been through.

 

And because we are in love, we have been able to be real, totally truthful and vulnerable to our spouses about this.

 

Once they understood, no way would they push their own agenda on us.

[nospam99]

It is not going to happen for me and I ****need**** someone that is cool with this, or at least is capable of appreciating that we'll be different in that aspect.

 

To be clear, the 'it' I think 'we' are talking about is No_Go finding an SO who can understand her family dynamics well enough to be in full support for her. Sorry if I missed the context because if I did .... well the rest of this post will be either worth less or worthless. For a guy as cynical and jaded as I am, I 'should' be more accepting of a defeatist attitude. But ... You're a bright enough lady to know full well what an epiphany is. You also know enough about human psychology to know that people deny the possibility of changes to their world or self views that they are afraid to deal with. Do you believe that you are capable of that kind of denial? Could you see it in yourself if you were doing it? Maybe 'it is not going to happen for' you. But to assert that it won't is an absolute prediction of the always uncertain future. Maybe it will happen? Would your life be happier if it did? Is there a downside to accepting the possibility? Is this the same question as whether it is better to have loved and lost? And now you can beat me up instead of taking it out on the hypothetical 'someone' who loved you (that word again) so much that he'd both ask the same questions and do all he could to make it 'happen'.

Edited December 12, 2017 by nospam99

[Popsicle]

Yes I do believe that you're going to be wearing adult diapers before you find your dream guy, if at all. Considering that, you need to decide just how important having kids is to you. If you never find the perfect guy, would you be okay being childless for the rest of your life? Some women are okay with that - they are okay with just dating/having relationships without children until the adult diaper stage comes. And then some women know that they don't want to die without having children and will have a child or two with a man who is not perfect. Both of those choices are fine, imo. It's just life.

 

Oh and by the way, men have to make the same decision too, it's just that they don't usually get to that stage until 40+.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Popsicle

[Gaeta]

Having children is a life changing experience. You go in delivery room a person and you come out an other. Maybe the love of a child, the realization that suddenly everything you have means nothing next to that child, will have you reconcile with humanity and with men and with love.

[MaleIntuition]

A couple of reflection.

 

There are tons of genuin people out there who treats others nice because they genuinely enjoy doing so. Not everyone who buys someone a box of chocolates does so because they have a goal in mind other than making another person happy.

 

Love is a scientific fact. It has a real physiological and neurological impact on our brains. Check out for example Helens Fishers ted talk: The brain in love, it’s pretty interesting.

 

Romance is individual. Romantic for me would be sharing a tent on a cold, clear winter day out i the wild after a good days hike . So yeah - be specific. I think there are tons of guys who would prefer a more straightforward approach. Perhaps romantic for you would be to sit up late at night and discuss an interesting and engaging topic with a smart man?

 

Finally I think you are looking for an INTP or INTJ personality type. I think the US has some MBTI based dating sites, perhaps look into one of those?

[Eternal Sunshine]

I am someone that loves romance and mushiness. I liked men that are like this from the start. Unfortunately I had to learn the hard way that it’s fake in 99% of the cases. All the “can’t stop thinking about you”, flowers, picnics is nothing but a theatrical performance. I’m actually now considering it as a red flag. I would much rather a man who doesn’t utter one romantic word or gesture unless he fully means it. One guy actually told me later on “Of course it’s a performance early on. Nobody can feel that way until they get to know someone”. Which is exactly my point. I would much rather that a guy is reserved in early dating stages. If he is already putting on a performance how can I know when he isn’t being disingenuous?

 

Maybe NG just wants fully authentic romance only.

[No_Go]

Your post is thoughtful. I'm not really defeatist in a sense I do know I can fall hard for people because I have had this happen 2-3 times.

 

I'm also not rejecting love at all, neither traditional family values. I'm just saying the two not necessarily overlap. I had time to think about it this year and I personally got to the conclusion that compartmentalizing relationship needs is just fine and way more realistic than getting delusional about prince charming and a white picket fence - especially that I have got the later for myself already .

 

 

To be clear, the 'it' I think 'we' are talking about is No_Go finding an SO who can understand her family dynamics well enough to be in full support for her. Sorry if I missed the context because if I did .... well the rest of this post will be either worth less or worthless. For a guy as cynical and jaded as I am, I 'should' be more accepting of a defeatist attitude. But ... You're a bright enough lady to know full well what an epiphany is. You also know enough about human psychology to know that people deny the possibility of changes to their world or self views that they are afraid to deal with. Do you believe that you are capable of that kind of denial? Could you see it in yourself if you were doing it? Maybe 'it is not going to happen for' you. But to assert that it won't is an absolute prediction of the always uncertain future. Maybe it will happen? Would your life be happier if it did? Is there a downside to accepting the possibility? Is this the same question as whether it is better to have loved and lost? And now you can beat me up instead of taking it out on the hypothetical 'someone' who loved you (that word again) so much that he'd both ask the same questions and do all he could to make it 'happen'.

[No_Go]

Yes I do believe that you're going to be wearing adult diapers before you find your dream guy, if at all.

 

Ouch - I hope a little before then I actually don't have super high expectations, just specific. If I was in a rush to meet Mr Meet my Expectations - I would. I just need to target my search better. But as of now... I really don't have the motivation to put in the effort. Maybe some day next year(s) I'll try.

[No_Go]

I believe in love. I just don't believe romance or courtship or marriage is correlated with love at all. It is a goal - to get something.

And that's the most unloving thing one can do (well it is love -

loving themselves).

 

Romance is individual. Sure - I'm not even concerned about the shape of the so called romance. Much more about how genuine - i.e. NOT goal oriented - it is.

 

Finally I think you are looking for an INTP or INTJ personality type. I think the US has some MBTI based dating sites, perhaps look into one of those?

I feel like INFP works best for me (I'm INTJ). Although I don't have experience with INTP/J - maybe these will be great as well. I don't know a MB based site - can you recommend one? And gosh I fell once for ENFP - musician, completely different from me - it was short but epic, I guess it wouldn't have worked out with his lifestyle, but I still miss him - 4 years later

 

A couple of reflection.

 

There are tons of genuin people out there who treats others nice because they genuinely enjoy doing so. Not everyone who buys someone a box of chocolates does so because they have a goal in mind other than making another person happy.

 

Love is a scientific fact. It has a real physiological and neurological impact on our brains. Check out for example Helens Fishers ted talk: The brain in love, it’s pretty interesting.

 

Romance is individual. Romantic for me would be sharing a tent on a cold, clear winter day out i the wild after a good days hike . So yeah - be specific. I think there are tons of guys who would prefer a more straightforward approach. Perhaps romantic for you would be to sit up late at night and discuss an interesting and engaging topic with a smart man?

 

Finally I think you are looking for an INTP or INTJ personality type. I think the US has some MBTI based dating sites, perhaps look into one of those?

[No_Go]

I am someone that loves romance and mushiness. I liked men that are like this from the start. Unfortunately I had to learn the hard way that it’s fake in 99% of the cases. All the “can’t stop thinking about you”, flowers, picnics is nothing but a theatrical performance. I’m actually now considering it as a red flag. I would much rather a man who doesn’t utter one romantic word or gesture unless he fully means it. One guy actually told me later on “Of course it’s a performance early on. Nobody can feel that way until they get to know someone”. Which is exactly my point. I would much rather that a guy is reserved in early dating stages. If he is already putting on a performance how can I know when he isn’t being disingenuous?

 

Maybe NG just wants fully authentic romance only.

 

Of course it’s a performance early on. Yes!!!! This is it! I HATE the idea of performance to achieve something. It makes me feel dumb and worthless if someone thinks this approach will work with me. I don't do this to men for god sake - no matter how much I like or admire them. I find 'courtship' as ultimate disrespect - like a bribe of some kind. I don't need a fancy dinner to f*ck with a guy - I need a sexual attraction which follows the natural chemistry between us. I don't need a 'proof of good behavior' towards me to marry a guy - I need to see it in ALL his interactions with friends & enemies alike.

 

Authentic romance is great, courtship 'romance' is fake and rotten.

[Gaeta]

Of course it’s a performance early on. Yes!!!! This is it! I HATE the idea of performance to achieve something. It makes me feel dumb and worthless if someone thinks this approach will work with me. I don't do this to men for god sake - no matter how much I like or admire them. I find 'courtship' as ultimate disrespect - like a bribe of some kind. I don't need a fancy dinner to f*ck with a guy - I need a sexual attraction which follows the natural chemistry between us. I don't need a 'proof of good behavior' towards me to marry a guy - I need to see it in ALL his interactions with friends & enemies alike.

 

Authentic romance is great, courtship 'romance' is fake and rotten.

 

You don't sound that different than the rest of us, most women want a man that acts genuine and doesn't put up a front.

[No_Go]

You don't sound that different than the rest of us, most women want a man that acts genuine and doesn't put up a front.

 

Yeah, that's true... I'm just overly sensitive on what is acting and what is not (that's the burden of being too intuitive by nature).