Dilemma (need to date again....)

[clia]

I'm honestly really confused as to why you seem to think you your only choices are being two singles with a child or a "we faking" couple. Why can't you just find a guy who you want to have both a relationship and child with?

 

I mean, you have found men who you wanted a relationship with; I know this because you've posted about them on this site. Granted, you haven't found the "right" one yet, but you only started dating like four years ago and have spent much of that time in various relationships with guys who obviously weren't the right one.

 

I feel like you are overwhelmingly making this harder than it is. Yes, you might have to get out of your comfort zone and go on dates, but the payoff -- meeting the right guy -- will surely be worth it. Meeting a guy for a cup of coffee or a walk isn't really a huge deal in the grand scheme of things, or maybe you could try getting involved in some social activities where you can organically meet a guy who you are compatible with. (For example, I met my husband at a Meetup event.)

 

IMO, you should just be very honest in your OLD profile. If you hate romantic gestures, say that. Explicitly. Yes, you will still get responses from guys who don't read your profile, but so what? Just delete them and move on. There are all different kinds of people out there, and I'm confident you can find someone who shares your views on relationships.

[No_Go]

The way I see it you want to repeat your mom's pattern. You want to find a man with whom you'll have no emotional connection. He'll be a sperm donor and a room-mate. Sure you don't want the disrespect but in all other aspect it would be the same.

 

I say go have that kid. Companionship isn't a priority to you so it can come later.

 

I need to get some courage to do it. A friend of mine is going through this path (she's a bit older - 38 now) - I'd possibly gain info from her experience...

 

You're right for the example my mom set. Unfortunately that runs in the family - most of my female relatives tolerated their husbands but considered them ultimately a burden that they need to put up with to have their kids. Interestingly, none of them divorced. The only one that appear to be loving her partner is my sister who is not even married to him and they were not even cohabitating until recently when it become necessary after she gave birth to their child. Go figure.

[lana-banana]

2) People in relationships are in love / romance - I personally don't believe that. Maybe some are. Most are not IMO - but I can't prove it because a good honest statistical tool is NOT available

 

Does it not bother you to believe something that you not only can't prove, but is actually contrary to available evidence? As a person in love it is really weird to read that you apparently believe all of us are somehow faking an important, critical part of our lives.

[Gaeta]

I need to get some courage to do it. A friend of mine is going through this path (she's a bit older - 38 now) - I'd possibly gain info from her experience...

 

You're right for the example my mom set. Unfortunately that runs in the family - most of my female relatives tolerated their husbands but considered them ultimately a burden that they need to put up with to have their kids. Interestingly, none of them divorced. The only one that appear to be loving her partner is my sister who is not even married to him and they were not even cohabitating until recently when it become necessary after she gave birth to their child. Go figure.

 

So you've only had negative models it explains why you are so defeatist.

 

As for not liking romantic gestures what exactly are we talking about? BECAUSE I remember you posting something on here about going on hike with some guy and him showing you some dancing steps and YOU, miss, Yes you were enjoying it AND would have liked to read something in it. There is nothing more romantic than a man teaching you dance steps!

[No_Go]

That's very interesting experience.

 

I actually have had similar experiences, albeit not that complex and life changing. I wonder if it is because when you focus your thoughts on something you become more aware of it (in that case - meeting a person fitting particular characteristics... who might have been unnoticed if you're not hyperaware of what you're looking for).

 

Just realized I didn't finish that thought.

 

 

Write letters talking about your relationship, how you feel, things you do together etc. Dating the letter is important. You write the letter, then put it away.

 

 

I did this. I had a little collection of about 6 letters. I stopped writing them when I started dating my husband. I can't tell you how long before I had met him that I had written the last one but I'd say a few months. I usually only did this when I was home alone on a Saturday night. It was nice to day dream about what would be when I met this future mate of mine.

 

 

I took the letters out again right before DH moved in with me, about 3 months before our wedding. I had been intending to throw them out but I decided to read them just to see what they said. I didn't really remember. I was astounded to realize that I could have actually written them to him & that we did many of the things I talked about in the letters.

 

 

So when we got home from our Honeymoon I gave the letters to my new husband. He was befuddled because he didn't understand why I didn't send them to him when I wrote them. I told him to look at the dates. Then he was annoyed because he thought I wrote them to another guy; remember each letter was dated months before I met him. I explained what the letters were & why I wrote them then directed him back to the first letter, where it spelled out what I was doing. It was pretty cool.

 

 

The only thing that didn't come true was his height; DH is shorter then the guy in my letter but I still know they were meant for him.

[nospam99]

There is nothing more romantic than a man teaching you dance steps!

 

Romantic? I'll 'see' your teaching dance steps and 'raise' you practicing the steps

- to the rumba (tango probably takes too much floor space and dammit I don't know the dance that Baby and Johnny did)

- just the two alone

- in one or the other's home

- by candlelight

- after a home-cooked meal with wine.

[No_Go]

Ah I didn't say no affection Just no romance. To me the two don't even overlap. ["Kids with no affection" sadly happen, many families started that way after unplanned pregnancies, arranged marriages etc - I'm obviously not going to voluntarily get myself in such a mess].

 

You're totally right for me being anxious haha, we anxious people sense each other right. But the reason that I dislike romance is simple - I just don't believe in it. Somehow sense very well when it is overdone (which in my case is like always ). Maybe I'm hypersensitive to it because I tend not to do this myself - I'd still express love but in other ways (e.g. paying extreme attention to the object of love).

Do you know what a happy, healthy relationship would look like for you? Can you envision the kind of situation you want? Yes! I'll be with someone that I admire for something (talent, ethics) that he's better than me so I can look after him. He's also inspired by something in me. We both have extreme trust in each other - can speak unfiltered, with no inhibitions. I don't need to bend too much my daily life to fit him in - because his existence is close to the way how I live, and he's flexible/fluid enough to fit in. Each of us maintains relative privacy and do not share it all with the other one. In the things we do together - we have the same vision. He treats me exactly the same as he will any other person on the street - because his principles are strong and he doesn't bend them to fit in a situation better.

 

As others have astutely noted, no man in his right mind is going to agree to as dramatic a commitment as children without caring deeply for the person who helps him raise/create those children. You can have "kids" as a priority, but "kids without romance and affection" isn't gonna happen.

 

You are obviously very anxious (I am one of the most anxious people on Earth and am qualified to judge) but I think your biggest problem is your extreme contempt for romance in general. You say you think all happy couples are faking it, you think people saying "we" is foolish, you think gestures of affection are dumb. Everyone is different, but at the end of the day if you have this much disgust for fundamental elements of romantic connection, you aren't going to get anywhere. It's like saying you want to buy a car but round wheels are a deal breaker.

 

Do you know what a happy, healthy relationship would look like for you? Can you envision the kind of situation you want?

 

(And for what it's worth, I know waaaaay too many well-adjusted people raised by single parents. Many are from divorce, but others lost their parents to sickness or violence. Even marriage isn't a guarantee that your kid will grow up with both of you.)

[No_Go]

 

lf ya do the date site thing , should just put it all out there , to hell with it , see what happens, never now the perfect guy might come along and loves the idea.

 

Yeah - that's why I need to get clear with myself first - so the description most accurately describes what I really need.

[RecentChange]

It sounds like you want an arranged marriage.

 

No romance, no love, just a contract of duties each of you are to fulfill.

 

Only arranged marriages tend to include an imbalance of power.

 

Maybe you could find a man who will fit into your spreadsheets. Into the empty drawers you have selected for him, into the little box which you envision him conforming to.

 

But most independent, self respecting men would have nothing to do with that.

 

I don't know what the solution is NoGo. Honestly I do not foresee one that will adhere to the parameters you have set.

 

Many of us have relationships, marriages built on love. Real, deep passionate love - and the idea of seeking a relationship devoid of that is unfathomable.

 

I also can't comprehend being able to raise a child - one of life's greatest challenges - in harmony with someone I didn't have a deep, loving connection with.

[No_Go]

I guess because these are the two extremes I see most often.

 

I'm sure I can meet a man I want a relationship with - I'm not sure I can meet him on time (i.e. in time to still be fertile). Therefore Gaeta's suggestion may need to be the way forward: kids first, mate later (to remove the time pressure...)

 

You're right I'm possibly putting unnecessary pressure - i started late and haven't dated much indeed. I've observed a lot though - unless I'm bending things in my mind, I feel like the prospects look bad...

 

I'm trying to be honest in my profile: as long as I can clearl define goals/wants/needs - I will. E.g. romantic gestures are just part of a whole picture of fakeness - a guy that is being 'nice' to his boss to get a promotion to me falls into exactly the same category... And I'll avoid such a guy like plague if I have this information... But it is so hard to information-gather in a high anxiety situation (i.e. date).

 

I'm honestly really confused as to why you seem to think you your only choices are being two singles with a child or a "we faking" couple. Why can't you just find a guy who you want to have both a relationship and child with?

 

I mean, you have found men who you wanted a relationship with; I know this because you've posted about them on this site. Granted, you haven't found the "right" one yet, but you only started dating like four years ago and have spent much of that time in various relationships with guys who obviously weren't the right one.

 

I feel like you are overwhelmingly making this harder than it is. Yes, you might have to get out of your comfort zone and go on dates, but the payoff -- meeting the right guy -- will surely be worth it. Meeting a guy for a cup of coffee or a walk isn't really a huge deal in the grand scheme of things, or maybe you could try getting involved in some social activities where you can organically meet a guy who you are compatible with. (For example, I met my husband at a Meetup event.)

 

IMO, you should just be very honest in your OLD profile. If you hate romantic gestures, say that. Explicitly. Yes, you will still get responses from guys who don't read your profile, but so what? Just delete them and move on. There are all different kinds of people out there, and I'm confident you can find someone who shares your views on relationships.

[lana-banana]

Why do you want to spend your life with someone you don't want to hug, kiss, and enjoy everything from a romantic hike to a lazy evening in with a movie or book?

 

You do need to be clear on what you want before starting. But I don't believe your desire to live without romance is authentic. Just a few months ago you were madly infatuated with someone and fantasizing about a future together. Why are you suddenly saying you don't want or believe in romance?

[No_Go]

Does it not bother you to believe something that you not only can't prove, but is actually contrary to available evidence? As a person in love it is really weird to read that you apparently believe all of us are somehow faking an important, critical part of our lives.

 

Isn't that exactly the same as what people do with their belief or lack of belief in God / supreme entity? It is just fun to think about something where there is no evidence and moreover - any acquired evidence is lacking credibility (because who the heck is going to admit to their partner that they're with them for convenience or worse )

[No_Go]

Maybe you're right for the negative models.

 

Oh, this guy is from another universe . I can't even put in words how he manages to raise any mundane topic to an intimate, warm level. I guess because he's the ultimate single man - extreme introvert, melancholic, self-absorbed - maybe because he's better than most of us, mortals

 

But jokes aside - he was just sharing something that HE enjoys, not targeted towards 'romancing' me - and that's what made it real and not 'romantic'.

 

So you've only had negative models it explains why you are so defeatist.

 

As for not liking romantic gestures what exactly are we talking about? BECAUSE I remember you posting something on here about going on hike with some guy and him showing you some dancing steps and YOU, miss, Yes you were enjoying it AND would have liked to read something in it. There is nothing more romantic than a man teaching you dance steps!

[No_Go]

Honestly - maybe arranged marriage wouldn't be too bad. It would take the decision-making pressure off my shoulders, and I'll sooner or later learn how to put up with the guy. It is not socially acceptable in my culture though :/

 

I'd like to find a guy that I admire - I'm just saying that's not necessarily coupled with a relationship of duty (like home-making or kid-raising type) that I'll also need to have at a certain point...

 

I feel like I'll find a guy I really want to be with some time late in life, probably after retirement, when the main duties (professional, kid raising etc) are behind me, but I need to bridge the time from now to then

 

It sounds like you want an arranged marriage.

 

No romance, no love, just a contract of duties each of you are to fulfill.

 

Only arranged marriages tend to include an imbalance of power.

 

Maybe you could find a man who will fit into your spreadsheets. Into the empty drawers you have selected for him, into the little box which you envision him conforming to.

 

But most independent, self respecting men would have nothing to do with that.

 

I don't know what the solution is NoGo. Honestly I do not foresee one that will adhere to the parameters you have set.

 

Many of us have relationships, marriages built on love. Real, deep passionate love - and the idea of seeking a relationship devoid of that is unfathomable.

 

I also can't comprehend being able to raise a child - one of life's greatest challenges - in harmony with someone I didn't have a deep, loving connection with.

[lana-banana]

Isn't that exactly the same as what people do with their belief or lack of belief in God / supreme entity? It is just fun to think about something where there is no evidence and moreover - any acquired evidence is lacking credibility (because who the heck is going to admit to their partner that they're with them for convenience or worse )

 

N...o? The belief in the divine is about something that can't be proven or disproven. What you are doing and describing---choosing to believe something contrary to actual, concrete evidence, and suggesting the evidence itself is "lacking credibility"---is what conspiracy theorists do. You might as well say that you think the world is flat.

 

Plenty of people are honest about their relationships, especially in anonymous surveys. But even those (check Pew and Gallup among many others for statistics) suggest more than 80% of married people are in generally happy, healthy relationships with people they love. I don't understand why you so badly need to deny this reality.

[Chilli]

Yeah sadly you've had terrible examples and the husbands probably feel the same way believe me. But at least they hang in there for the kids. l believe in that unless mistreatment in some way from either side.

 

Not sayin every couple married or what is all nice and inlovey anymore , hell no but some.

 

Ball park wording will do l mean you meet and talk and if it goes anywhere you'll sure be getting into it all along the way properly.

 

l just joined a date site and l've seen quite a few after some part time type thing, men and women.

 

btw , my brothers part time for 20yrs with his gf,

she lives 3hours away, She likes coming up to his place for a wk or two but not living there full time. He loves it.Glad to see her come glad to see her leave haha.

They never had kids though

[Gaeta]

Romantic? I'll 'see' your teaching dance steps and 'raise' you practicing the steps

- to the rumba (tango probably takes too much floor space and dammit I don't know the dance that Baby and Johnny did)

- just the two alone

- in one or the other's home

- by candlelight

- after a home-cooked meal with wine.

 

A man I like taking my hand, putting his arm around my waist and twirling me around in the middle of a trail under a bright sunny sun IS romantic.

 

If your definition of romantic is typical candlelight and wine than I am not romantic because that type of cookie-cutter romance is not interesting to me.

 

That might be what No_go reffers as romantic? The candlelight, roses, singning under the window type of romance?

[No_Go]

Why do you want to spend your life with someone you don't want to hug, kiss, and enjoy everything from a romantic hike to a lazy evening in with a movie or book?

 

You do need to be clear on what you want before starting. But I don't believe your desire to live without romance is authentic. Just a few months ago you were madly infatuated with someone and fantasizing about a future together. Why are you suddenly saying you don't want or believe in romance?

 

Ahhh, again I NEVER said I don't want to kiss, hug, have sex etc. Heck I DO want this quite a lot - I feel enslaved n my own body because of all these desires

 

A hike in the woods or quiet evening at home also sound great - that's not romance to me, it is just authentic life. Maybe my definitions are off?

 

Oh this guy from the summer will always have a special place in my heart, but I'm not sure that a relationship with him would have been feasible even if he was willing to give it a shot: 1) he is completely against having kids (so I should have done this somehow independently of him if together) 2) he's willing to move every couple of years (I'm dead set to stay where I am now for life) 3) he's very close to family (I can't stand family stuff) etc.

[nospam99]

Hmmmm ... a thought. No_Go, is it fair to say you primarily want children and secondarily are willing to more or less 'put up' with a man to sire them and help raise them? If so, I suggest you paraphrase that in your dating profile: like 'seeking a mate to raise a family - marriage to 'seal the deal' strongly preferred, loving daddyness required'.

[No_Go]

N...o? The belief in the divine is about something that can't be proven or disproven. What you are doing and describing---choosing to believe something contrary to actual, concrete evidence, and suggesting the evidence itself is "lacking credibility"---is what conspiracy theorists do. You might as well say that you think the world is flat.

 

Plenty of people are honest about their relationships, especially in anonymous surveys. But even those (check Pew and Gallup among many others for statistics) suggest more than 80% of married people are in generally happy, healthy relationships with people they love. I don't understand why you so badly need to deny this reality.

 

I told you exactly why: 1) it is a fun topic to discuss (same as religion) 2) there is no objective way to prove credibility of the information. There is no good control that can be assigned - or am I missing something here?

 

Regarding existence of God - science can explain pretty much everything making God redundant. Same way with marriages/LTRs - convenience explains everything 'happiness' related. It is just too hard to decouple love from convenience.

 

P.S. I've said it before: I'm NOT against marriage/LTR - quite the opposite. I don't think it is a representation of love but I can see how it may make people happier.

[No_Go]

Hmmmm ... a thought. No_Go, is it fair to say you primarily want children and secondarily are willing to more or less 'put up' with a man to sire them and help raise them? If so, I suggest you paraphrase that in your dating profile: like 'seeking a mate to raise a family - marriage to 'seal the deal' strongly preferred, loving daddyness required'.

 

As of now - that's pretty much accurate. I may try that, maybe not in a dating site but with a matchmaker (giving some privacy).

[No_Go]

Yeah sadly you've had terrible examples and the husbands probably feel the same way believe me. But at least they hang in there for the kids. l believe in that unless mistreatment in some way from either side.

 

Not sayin every couple married or what is all nice and inlovey anymore , hell no but some.

 

Ball park wording will do l mean you meet and talk and if it goes anywhere you'll sure be getting into it all along the way properly.

 

l just joined a date site and l've seen quite a few after some part time type thing, men and women.

 

btw , my brothers part time for 20yrs with his gf,

she lives 3hours away, She likes coming up to his place for a wk or two but not living there full time. He loves it.Glad to see her come glad to see her leave haha.

They never had kids though

 

My sister did something similar. They had a child though and because of that they moved in. But they did the part time thing for 5 years or so prior to her getting pregnant.

[Gaeta]

he's very close to family (I can't stand family stuff) etc.

 

Shouldn't it read you can't stand YOUR family stuff?

 

You're on a roll today, you generalize everything.

[No_Go]

A man I like taking my hand, putting his arm around my waist and twirling me around in the middle of a trail under a bright sunny sun IS romantic.

 

If your definition of romantic is typical candlelight and wine than I am not romantic because that type of cookie-cutter romance is not interesting to me.

 

That might be what No_go reffers as romantic? The candlelight, roses, singning under the window type of romance?

 

YES! I maybe messing up my definitions - I'm mixing up cheesy and romantic.

that type of cookie-cutter romance is not interesting to me - Likewise!

[nospam99]

A man I like taking my hand, putting his arm around my waist and twirling me around in the middle of a trail under a bright sunny sun IS romantic.

 

If your definition of romantic is typical candlelight and wine than I am not romantic because that type of cookie-cutter romance is not interesting to me.

 

That might be what No_go reffers as romantic? The candlelight, roses, singning under the window type of romance?

 

Getting off topic a bit, but I'd like to respond. The touch and the rhythm of the dance is what is romantic to me. The arm around my partner's waist (technically my leading hand just below her left shoulder blade, slipping lower later in our practice session) pushes a button. The slow, precise Latin beat and being alone, two bodies and souls entwined with the music is the romance. The candlelight and the wine are just atmosphere. Yet, with respect to what is romantic, to each his or her own. I'm simply into dance and got carried away with the posts